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To anyone at the game

mitch300 : 9/15/2019 6:52 pm
What is with all the check downs. Is no one open, or is Eli not looking at all the receivers. I understand 3rd and 15-20+ yards to go. However, on a 3rd and 7 he checks down.
I was there  
Giantophile : 9/15/2019 7:02 pm : link
Not a complete answer but the best way I can describe it is the offense is just running in slow motion. There's just no jump.

It's not just Eli or the line or the receivers, it's everything. They just look a step slow. And, well, bad.
Giants are playing with “B” team receivers  
Hammer : 9/15/2019 7:04 pm : link
no one is getting open.

Manning has to check down.
Receivers are slow,  
redwhiteandbigblue : 9/15/2019 7:09 pm : link
run very poor routes and get zero separation. There is a reason players like Fowler and Lattimer have jumped around from team to team.
Thanks  
mitch300 : 9/15/2019 7:11 pm : link
Guys. Very frustrating watching at home and saying WTF with the check downs.
Believe it or not  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 7:12 pm : link
we are the first team to throw for more than 210 yards against the Bills since the Patriots did it in October 2018.
RE: Believe it or not  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2019 7:14 pm : link
In comment 14578403 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we are the first team to throw for more than 210 yards against the Bills since the Patriots did it in October 2018.


Part of that is the Bills have never held a commanding lead where the opposing team needed to throw and their defense was playing softer protecting a lead.
I watched one or two of those plays again in slow mo  
djm : 9/15/2019 7:14 pm : link
And on at least two there were other options. Maybe some risk but Eli’s way too content with living to fight another day the last few years. And the problem with that is the defense is so bad that day never comes.
Zeke's Alibi  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 7:16 pm : link
Perhaps, but they were the #1 pass defense in 2018.
RE: I watched one or two of those plays again in slow mo  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2019 7:20 pm : link
In comment 14578408 djm said:
Quote:
And on at least two there were other options. Maybe some risk but Eli’s way too content with living to fight another day the last few years. And the problem with that is the defense is so bad that day never comes.
that’s what he was told to do- to BBI acclaim- don’t take chances, get rid of the ball, take the check down, throw it out of bounds.
WR’s were getting no separation,  
Section331 : 9/15/2019 7:22 pm : link
and I mean none, but Eli was hesitant to take shots too.
I was there  
Karl Hungus : 9/15/2019 7:31 pm : link
Nobody was open, and a few drops didn't help.
Interesting at the game comments  
arniefez : 9/15/2019 7:31 pm : link
Watching most of the league today. The Giants look like the slowest, softest least interested team besides Miami. So of the plays in the Miami game by Miami were as our exiled RB would say comical. Actually even Miami seems to play with more intensity as bad as they are.
I was at the game  
Matt in SGS : 9/15/2019 7:33 pm : link
and I have lower level end zone seats, so I get a good vantage point of what's going on as the play develops. The Bills were focused on Barkley. So much so that Eli actually had time for the most part and some lanes to throw. The receivers weren't getting much separation. Eli did miss chances to make plays too (he missed Engram early and on the one nice pass to Fowler for a first down, Fowler had room to run, but Eli kind of threw a duck that forced a diving catch).

Bottom line, Eli is not embarassing himself out there. But he's not making plays either. I know we scream when Eli checks down or throws to a TE who is open for 3 yards when he has another open 10 yards downfield, but that wasn't what I saw today.

At least the defense started to make some plays in the 2nd half, they did generate a pass rush, but I also think Buffalo took the air out of the ball because they knew the only way the Giants got back in the game was if Allen was throwing it up for grabs (which he did).
There  
Ike#88 : 9/15/2019 7:40 pm : link
is no future for the Giants in letting Eli play QB. Move on!
It's  
Jon in NYC : 9/15/2019 7:41 pm : link
tough when you're without your top 2 WRs.
RE: Interesting at the game comments  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14578457 arniefez said:
Quote:
Watching most of the league today. The Giants look like the slowest, softest least interested team besides Miami. So of the plays in the Miami game by Miami were as our exiled RB would say comical. Actually even Miami seems to play with more intensity as bad as they are.


HOG MOLLIES
One solution for the problem that receivers can’t get open  
PhilSimms15 : 9/15/2019 7:45 pm : link
Start a mobile QB who can move around giving receivers more time to get open. Also, that mobile QB could legitimately run the RPO so the DL can’t pin their ears back and attack.
Allen  
Ike#88 : 9/15/2019 7:53 pm : link
kept plays alive today. Sometimes he had to throw it away but he was not sacked or hit and fumbled. He was not a statue.
RE: Zeke's Alibi  
Ned In Atlanta : 9/15/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14578416 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Perhaps, but they were the #1 pass defense in 2018.



I thought you were joking. But if that’s actually a silver lining you took from this game we might actually be nearing rock bottom
RE: Allen  
Section331 : 9/15/2019 8:01 pm : link
In comment 14578526 Ike#88 said:
Quote:
kept plays alive today. Sometimes he had to throw it away but he was not sacked or hit and fumbled. He was not a statue.


He was sacked 3x.
RE: Zeke's Alibi  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2019 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14578416 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Perhaps, but they were the #1 pass defense in 2018.


Oh they are good, no doubt. That number is preposterous though. They aren't that good.
He was sacked 3 times  
Ike#88 : 9/15/2019 8:20 pm : link
but being able to move and helped his team win the game. Other times he threw it away or made a play. The quickness level in the NFL is way beyond when Eli was a rookie and he is obsolete at this point.
RE: It's  
NoPeanutz : 9/15/2019 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14578491 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
tough when you're without your top 2 WRs.

Lattimer left with a concusion.

Receivers next week could be Fowler, Russel Sheperd, TJ Jones and Cody Core.
Nobody was open, no separation. Every completion was contested. Eli couldn't go deep until he had to, and even then it was to WRs who were a step behind and well-covered.
The WRs are scrubs who don't scare defenses... why is that a controversial statement?
RE: It's  
Phil S : 9/15/2019 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14578491 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
tough when you're without your top 2 WRs.


Especially when your WR corps is awful to begin with.
RE: He was sacked 3 times  
Section331 : 9/15/2019 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14578583 Ike#88 said:
Quote:
but being able to move and helped his team win the game. Other times he threw it away or made a play. The quickness level in the NFL is way beyond when Eli was a rookie and he is obsolete at this point.


Yeah, he definitely helped his team win the game, but that is the key - he had help. The Bills’ 4th WR would be the Giants best right now.
RE: RE: It's  
Bill L : 9/15/2019 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14578590 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
In comment 14578491 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


tough when you're without your top 2 WRs.


Lattimer left with a concusion.

Receivers next week could be Fowler, Russel Sheperd, TJ Jones and Cody Core.
Nobody was open, no separation. Every completion was contested. Eli couldn't go deep until he had to, and even then it was to WRs who were a step behind and well-covered.
The WRs are scrubs who don't scare defenses... why is that a controversial statement?
because it’s anti-dogmatic.
What if we didn’t treat this one game in a vacuum  
twostepgiants : 9/15/2019 8:36 pm : link
And realize that this has been the same story for YEARS now.

Through HCs, offensive systems and players?
RE: Giants are playing with “B” team receivers  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/15/2019 8:42 pm : link
In comment 14578363 Hammer said:
Quote:
no one is getting open.

Manning has to check down.


More like the “D” team receivers. We have the all St. FA team at WR this season.
I sit in section 126, right behind the posts......  
BillKo : 9/15/2019 8:54 pm : link
.....from what I see, there's not much seperation. And even the balls Eli is completing - which is mostly slants and outs, the DBs seem to be right on top of the receivers.

So Eli really isn't doing much wrong, but he's got no juice when the team really needs it - meaning broken plays.

This offense to me looks like it's going to have trouble getting to 20 most weeks - why, i have no idea. It should be better.

But if we are going to lose, what's the sense of losing with Eli. Get DJ the experience.
No future  
Simms : 9/15/2019 8:55 pm : link
I think that is an additional part of the problem. The Giants are not hyped to dump a season just yet and give the reins to Jones. The fan base, supporters are in different factions. Advertisers are not interested in a dump so early in the season for a question mark either.
RE: No future  
BillKo : 9/15/2019 9:12 pm : link
In comment 14578685 Simms said:
Quote:
I think that is an additional part of the problem. The Giants are not hyped to dump a season just yet and give the reins to Jones. The fan base, supporters are in different factions. Advertisers are not interested in a dump so early in the season for a question mark either.


The other part of is Shurmur. He's in a tough spot because his resume is on the line. He's a losing coach, with a particularly bad record. He wants to win games, and despite how bad this offense looks, Eli probably gives him the best option at QB to win.

Starting Jones likely adds to that poor personal record, and does he have enough cache to survive a 3-13 season with mostly Jones?

D
He had been beaten down to the point now  
mattlawson : 9/15/2019 9:22 pm : link
Where if it’s not a sure thing he doesn’t force it Unless all hope is lost. Now that he has a line he should be able to get it down field a little bit more but that’s not his nature after enduring the last 5 years.

Put it in the context, his offense has been completely changed under two different coaches that all tout the short passing game, West Coast offense, high percentage throws. He does not take shots like he once did - and Clearly has not had the leash for it.

Was sitting in the first few rows of the 300's  
Stu11 : 9/15/2019 10:12 pm : link
Center end zone. Like others have said, no separation at all. What do you expect with a Wr corp of Jags with not one guy to take the top off the defense? I agree with what others said of the value of a QB who can keep plays alive with his legs. The biggest play of the game was the throw Allen made on the run on 3rd down at midfield after we cut it to 7 in the 4th. Eli doesn't have a prayer 9f making that throw. Eli was a great QB for a decade for us and won us 2 SB's, but that was a different NFL. You need a mobile QB who can make plays off a broken pocket. Eli just can't do that. Simply put we're in a death march to the end of his time here and its not pretty.
RE: Believe it or not  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 10:43 pm : link
In comment 14578403 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
we are the first team to throw for more than 210 yards against the Bills since the Patriots did it in October 2018.


Ok but we had zero after the 1st quarter. And the last forty came in garbage time on duck from Eli to Engram. It was patheyic
Nine-Tails  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 10:44 pm : link
Each game has its own story. But again, going back to October 2018, no team in the NFL has thrown for more than 210 yards against the Bills. And even Brady didn't light them up that day.
RE: I was at the game  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14578465 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
and I have lower level end zone seats, so I get a good vantage point of what's going on as the play develops. The Bills were focused on Barkley. So much so that Eli actually had time for the most part and some lanes to throw. The receivers weren't getting much separation. Eli did miss chances to make plays too (he missed Engram early and on the one nice pass to Fowler for a first down, Fowler had room to run, but Eli kind of threw a duck that forced a diving catch).

Bottom line, Eli is not embarassing himself out there. But he's not making plays either. I know we scream when Eli checks down or throws to a TE who is open for 3 yards when he has another open 10 yards downfield, but that wasn't what I saw today.

At least the defense started to make some plays in the 2nd half, they did generate a pass rush, but I also think Buffalo took the air out of the ball because they knew the only way the Giants got back in the game was if Allen was throwing it up for grabs (which he did).


I dont know about embarrassing. Eli trying to joke Vander Esch was cringe worthy and the wobble on some of his throws were pretty bad even for his standards
RE: Nine-Tails  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14579040 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Each game has its own story. But again, going back to October 2018, no team in the NFL has thrown for more than 210 yards against the Bills. And even Brady didn't light them up that day.


Besides Brady and Stafford, a lot of those guys are bottom barrel starters and none of those guys threw it 42 times. Yardage doesn't mean much, if you're not putting up points and Eli didnt push the needle today
Eli's been checking down on 3rd and long...  
Tesla : 9/15/2019 11:15 pm : link
for 3 years now. So let's not pretend it was because the Bills defense is like the 85 Bears or that it's because Sterling Shepard is hurt.

The reason is because our QB doesn't like standing in the pocket and getting hit at this point in his career/life.
Nine-Tails  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 11:17 pm : link
I'm not defending Manning. I'm merely stating facts.

RE: One solution for the problem that receivers can’t get open  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2019 11:24 pm : link
In comment 14578506 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Start a mobile QB who can move around giving receivers more time to get open. Also, that mobile QB could legitimately run the RPO so the DL can’t pin their ears back and attack.
Dear God. You can have Fran Tarkenton back there (and Jones is not that kind of qb) and these clowns still won't get separation.

I don't think BBI realizes just how bad these receivers are. Fowler was home on his couch last season. Latimer hung around for 4 years with Denver doing nothing. TJ Jones was an afterthought in Detroit. Cody Core hung around for 3 seasons in Cinncinnati doing nothing. It is an indictment of Gettlemen that he went into the season with this collection of bums at wideout.
RE: Was sitting in the first few rows of the 300's  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2019 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14578976 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Center end zone. Like others have said, no separation at all. What do you expect with a Wr corp of Jags with not one guy to take the top off the defense? I agree with what others said of the value of a QB who can keep plays alive with his legs. The biggest play of the game was the throw Allen made on the run on 3rd down at midfield after we cut it to 7 in the 4th. Eli doesn't have a prayer 9f making that throw. Eli was a great QB for a decade for us and won us 2 SB's, but that was a different NFL. You need a mobile QB who can make plays off a broken pocket. Eli just can't do that. Simply put we're in a death march to the end of his time here and its not pretty.
Allen is packing a rocket launcher and there are few qb's in the NFL that can make some of the plays he can. Totally underrated on BBI.
A select few people have been on the Cody Lattimer fanclub  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2019 11:28 pm : link
for absolutely no reason I can discern. Guy has done nothing anywhere and people cling to that "2nd round pick!!!!" thing like it matters.
RE: Nine-Tails  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 11:29 pm : link
In comment 14579119 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'm not defending Manning. I'm merely stating facts.


Oh I know that. I was showing that though Manning had the most yds by 2, he also threw it by at least 8 more attempts than the other qbs
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