Why are people so up in arms on this board?

This is yet another wasted year. The team is squandering resources on a quixotic goal of competing, instead of biting the bullet and going into full rebuild mode.

Honestly, we should have been in full-on rebuild mode last year.

You should have expected bad. We need to be hoping it gets better. There isn't a ton of money invested there and only recently has there been a draft focus there. We need to hope that Baker starts looking better and an alpha (or beta) pass rusher emerges. If we suck all year on defense, but the secondary improves and somebody in the front 7 emerges as a second contract guy at pass rush...then it's a win for us. And way before that you hope our rookie QB plays alright.

Which gives them lots of options in how to deal with Barkley

...

In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said:

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Honestly, I want an experienced HC who has had success in the past. Don’t know who that will be or if such a guy will be available, but that’s the goal. Once, we finally move to Jones, I want a guy who could maximize that two to three year window, where saquon and Jones are on their rookie deals

Right now it seems as if the Giants do improve it'll feel like it's happening in dog years.

There's baby steps and then there's snail-speed.

At the moment it feels as if the Giants were scheduled to play against nobody, nobody would be favored.

Matt Eberflus

The defense looked lost. Over and over lb's and db's were pointing and shifting and looked like they had no idea where they should be on the field. I am getting the impression the defensive scheme (whatever it may be) tis too complicated at this stage of the young season. It reminds me of the Tim Lewis days when there was basically a mutiny by players over the fact the defense was too complicated.

Confused defensive player on the field was Peppers. Looks completely lost and out of position all too often.

In comment 14578911 Nine-Tails said:

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In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said: Quote: ? Honestly, I want an experienced HC who has had success in the past. Don’t know who that will be or if such a guy will be available, but that’s the goal. Once, we finally move to Jones, I want a guy who could maximize that two to three year window, where saquon and Jones are on their rookie deals

Agreed. I wanted Cowher the past two times. I still want Cowher. Myself and Eric were both saying we need a strong established coach to right the ship. And we still do. And Cowher was also known for bonding with the younger players which is paramount in today’s NFL.

Giants should make a serious play for him when they inevitably fire PS.

In comment 14578897 Gary from The East End said:

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This is yet another wasted year. The team is squandering resources on a quixotic goal of competing, instead of biting the bullet and going into full rebuild mode. Honestly, we should have been in full-on rebuild mode last year.

This is 100% spot on. The disaster started long ago, but was doubled down in the 2018 offseason. From that draft on it was nothing more than doubling down on the band aid strategy. The franchise hopes now rest with Jones. If hes mediocre or bad. Look out, it’s going be a ghost town in MetLife for years to come.

But here’s the thing, there’s no point in Jones being on the bench anymore. If served the franchise now point going forward. If the 6th pick in the draft isn’t ready to play, DG and Shurmur just look awful.

In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said:

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Lincoln Riley.

Whatever it costs.

And when we move on from DG, I want someone who isn’t one of John Mara’s LinkedIn contacts.

In comment 14578723 bradshaw44 said:

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We're TWO FUCKING GAMES into the season. Give it time, for God's sake.

When Jerry was putting us side by side with the earth's core.

But now it seems like an angry mob is on the loose.2 years into a rebuild.

Gettleman and Mara should have seen the writing on the wall after the three-win season. I, for one, felt like they were treating the fans like idiots. We all watched Eli in 2017 and knew he was done.

Both those two told us not to believe our eyes, or the data, just trust them.

If the management of this team finally did what’s right and thank Eli for his amazing career but let him know that this season is going to be a graduate program for all the kids, including Jones. The team will take its lumps and lose lots of games. But it might mean getting the young guys valuable on field experience so next season the Giants won’t need to start from scratch.

Honestly, they will lose the same amount of games if the Giants keep playing Eli, Bethea, Olgetree, Jack Rabbit, Tate as if they played the young guys more extensively.

This was supposed to be a lousy team. Be patient -- see what the young kids show you as season progresses.

Jones is the key.

FA is available next year along with more draft picks.

This team has a starting QB that is on his way out. Teams are rightly dedicating a lot of attention to the two threats on offense, Engram and Saquon, ESPECIALLY Saquon. You cannot force feed the guy when they are giving you one on one off coverage on the Fowler's and Cody Core's.

Shurmur's system is working to move the ball, but they are not finishing drives. That speaks to the lack of talent at WR, as well as the lack of the QB to be able to extend plays when protection isn't ideal. Shurmur deserves his shot with his QB. It serves NO ONE to switch up the coaches on a young team.

Constant rotating of coaching staff's is what bad teams do. It's what the Browns have done to make them perennial losers.

This defense is too young, and the QB not having the skills necessary anymoreto compete with the modern offenses of today's game, to be able to expect a winner.

Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.

Buckle up, nancies. It would be PHENOMENAL for the Giants to have a top 2 pick in the 2020 draft with the QBs coming out. They will command a haul that will allow them to address pass-rusher and OT AND WR.

If you had expectations of playoffs with either Eli at this stage or a rookie QB at the helm, you're the problem, not this team. DG has done a great job addressing the trenches and has his QB of the future. Now let the kids learn and grow together while he finishes this roster with the talent he's going to bring in once Eli's contract is off the books and with the draft next year, with what I hope will be multiple #1's again. I hope the Giants go 3-13 again this year with the only wins being against Eagles, Cowboys, and Redskins. Good night!

In comment 14579085 allstarjim said:

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This team has a starting QB that is on his way out. Teams are rightly dedicating a lot of attention to the two threats on offense, Engram and Saquon, ESPECIALLY Saquon. You cannot force feed the guy when they are giving you one on one off coverage on the Fowler's and Cody Core's. Shurmur's system is working to move the ball, but they are not finishing drives. That speaks to the lack of talent at WR, as well as the lack of the QB to be able to extend plays when protection isn't ideal. Shurmur deserves his shot with his QB. It serves NO ONE to switch up the coaches on a young team. Constant rotating of coaching staff's is what bad teams do. It's what the Browns have done to make them perennial losers. This defense is too young, and the QB not having the skills necessary anymoreto compete with the modern offenses of today's game, to be able to expect a winner. Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before. Buckle up, nancies. It would be PHENOMENAL for the Giants to have a top 2 pick in the 2020 draft with the QBs coming out. They will command a haul that will allow them to address pass-rusher and OT AND WR. If you had expectations of playoffs with either Eli at this stage or a rookie QB at the helm, you're the problem, not this team. DG has done a great job addressing the trenches and has his QB of the future. Now let the kids learn and grow together while he finishes this roster with the talent he's going to bring in once Eli's contract is off the books and with the draft next year, with what I hope will be multiple #1's again. I hope the Giants go 3-13 again this year with the only wins being against Eagles, Cowboys, and Redskins. Good night!

This is very reasonable, except how do we know he is the qb of the future? They won’t know unless he gets significant time this season. They better find out quickly with the quality of qbs coming out in 2020.

In comment 14579085 allstarjim said:

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Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.

Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance.

a lousy team?

They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year.

The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan.

In comment 14579121 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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a lousy team? They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year. The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan.

Huh? You didn't expect this to be a lousy team?

it's not the we expected to be good. We knew we were not good. We want to be not good with our future QB rather than the washed up QB who can't do it anymore.

In comment 14579103 giantstock said:

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In comment 14579085 allstarjim said: Quote: Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before. Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance.

They should show marked improvement next year. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting a first year starter to compete for the division, especially this division, is great if it happens but not terribly realistic.

In comment 14579127 giantstock said:

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In comment 14579121 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: a lousy team? They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year. The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan. Huh? You didn't expect this to be a lousy team?

I did, because I disliked most of what they did this offseason. But the front office isn't tanking. This is the result of them trying to win as many games as they can. This year wasn't about being lousy. It was supposed to be Eli's retirement tour.

In comment 14579155 allstarjim said:

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In comment 14579103 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14579085 allstarjim said: Quote: Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before. Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance. They should show marked improvement next year. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting a first year starter to compete for the division, especially this division, is great if it happens but not terribly realistic.

1st year starter is a slight misnomer. He'll play this year and get lots of time. Secondly, this QB starter should have a functioning OL and more importantly one of the greatest RB's ever. Barkley will make the game easier for Jones.

Barkley is incredible. Year 2 of Jones he should be very good. This GM should have built something after two years. We think he has a pretty good OL. We think he got a real good QB and he has a super super super super amazing RB and he will have another draft and FA to build his defense. That's playoff caliber if he does it right.

SB is top 3 players in football.

In comment 14579159 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 14579155 allstarjim said: Quote: In comment 14579103 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14579085 allstarjim said: Quote: Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before. Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance. They should show marked improvement next year. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting a first year starter to compete for the division, especially this division, is great if it happens but not terribly realistic. 1st year starter is a slight misnomer. He'll play this year and get lots of time. Secondly, this QB starter should have a functioning OL and more importantly one of the greatest RB's ever. Barkley will make the game easier for Jones. Barkley is incredible. Year 2 of Jones he should be very good. This GM should have built something after two years. We think he has a pretty good OL. We think he got a real good QB and he has a super super super super amazing RB and he will have another draft and FA to build his defense. That's playoff caliber if he does it right. SB is top 3 players in football.

Year 3 should be the year. I suppose we wouldn't scream if we got knocked out last game of the season in year 3. But you said 3 year rebuild. Next year is year 3.

Or at least decently competitive.

Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding.

Predictions

Britt in VA : 10-6
TrueBlue56 : 9-7
ryanmkeane : 9-7
5BowlsSoon : 10-6
bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6
Steve in ATL : 9-7
Diver_Down : 12-4
mfsd : 10-6
armstead98 : 11-5
Ira : 9-7
Gap92 : 9-7


Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )

In comment 14578775 AcidTest said:

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were told that Eli would be a lot better with improvements to the offense, even without OBJ. The offense did play better at the end of last year, but Eli can't move. No one expected the defense to be this bad, especially in the secondary.

I did.

In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:

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Or at least decently competitive. Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding. Predictions Britt in VA : 10-6 TrueBlue56 : 9-7 ryanmkeane : 9-7 5BowlsSoon : 10-6 bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6 Steve in ATL : 9-7 Diver_Down : 12-4 mfsd : 10-6 armstead98 : 11-5 Ira : 9-7 Gap92 : 9-7 Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )

I used to say on here I thought this site was way too positive. But just look nationally. This team was projected to be 6-10. David Te was calling DG nuts and predicted he would ultimately be fired.

In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:

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Or at least decently competitive. Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding. Predictions Britt in VA : 10-6 TrueBlue56 : 9-7 ryanmkeane : 9-7 5BowlsSoon : 10-6 bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6 Steve in ATL : 9-7 Diver_Down : 12-4 mfsd : 10-6 armstead98 : 11-5 Ira : 9-7 Gap92 : 9-7 Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )

Good find...I got some posters telling me my 4-5 win prediction was absurd. Hey, I’ll sign up for 5-11 right now. This could be a 3 win team.

In comment 14579121 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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a lousy team? They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year. The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan.

BBI is not a monolith of opinion.

But I think almost everyone expected them to play competent football. This looks like a pick-up team. They supposedly loaded up on guys who play hard and play the right way, but outside of Barkley none of them really do it competently.

In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:

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Or at least decently competitive. Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding. Predictions Britt in VA : 10-6 TrueBlue56 : 9-7 ryanmkeane : 9-7 5BowlsSoon : 10-6 bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6 Steve in ATL : 9-7 Diver_Down : 12-4 mfsd : 10-6 armstead98 : 11-5 Ira : 9-7 Gap92 : 9-7 Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )

I will stick to my prediction in that linked thread

.

In comment 14579186 Mike from Ohio said:

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But I think almost everyone expected them to play competent football. This looks like a pick-up team. They supposedly loaded up on guys who play hard and play the right way, but outside of Barkley none of them really do it competently.

The post from Gary begs to differ

On the defense.

38% 3rd down efficiency allowed today, last week it was 60%.

Forced 5 2nd half punts.

Better pass rush. It may only be about the difference in opponent but the bottom line is they did play better. Still not winning football but I didn't think they looked as completely lost as they did last week.

I said last year this wasn't going to be a 1 year rebuild. This is a stepping stone year and tbh I really hope they don't win many games. There are no trophies for 7-9. Sure, I enjoy when they win but losing this year is in the best interests of the franchise.

And to the poster that said Jones will start this year, I don't believe that is a given until MAYBE late in the year.

They need one more really good draft and let Jones takeover. Next year they should be competitive but I don't expect playoffs. If I made a prediction for this year it would've been 7-9 at the height of optimism.

You can't look at the number of rookies on defense and assume they'd be competent year one, especially not this early.

Hope springs eternal in preseason and when the optimists of this board are predicting 9-7 then you know that even with complete homerism it's not a playoff team. No unbiased party would've predicted a winning record this year.

I'm just happy football is back. I'm also happy to see an influx of some talent. If Jones is a flop then all the criticism of DG will be warranted. To think that the team would be a winner because we have a bunch of rookies minus OBJ with the same QB that has given the same consistent results for a number of years now is not rational. But we are fans and are rarely rational when it comes to our team.

It's understandable but the smart thing to do is take a step back from the ledge and realize this is going to take some time. I like the young players we brought in for the most part.

Posters expected this team to be good. That’s the thing about the internet and BBi, you can always find what was written - as Gary just depicted. In fact , a small handful of vocal posters would verbally abuse realistic posters who dared question the status quo of a franchise that’s been awful for nearly a decade (funny, those posters have gone largely radio silent).

Out in the real world, pretty much everyone said we were a bad team.

My co-worker is a Cowboys fan. He was busting on me pretty bad this morning and I couldn't really say anything. That's painful.

over preseason! It was just preseason.

In comment 14579218 Jim in Scranton said:

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over preseason! It was just preseason.

That was a big part of it. People should know better than that.

In comment 14579084 giantstock said:

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This was supposed to be a lousy team. Be patient -- see what the young kids show you as season progresses. Jones is the key. FA is available next year along with more draft picks.

This.

Either, I would be ignored, or in a few cases shouted down and told I must not be a true fan...

For what it's worth, I am a diehard fan. But I have learned how to be objective about the team, and not see them through blue colored glasses.

Here is what I posted on the predict the record thread posted above.

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I'm sticking with my earlier 6 - 10 .McL. : 8/30/2019 1:21 pm : link : reply To the folks who are the polyannas on this thread... (and I use the term polyanna as it was on here back in the 90s when we had the polyanna vs. realist debates, and the polyannas wore the label proudly! :) So don't be offended by the term) Every year is different. Comparing to last year is a bit of a fools errand. Our record may not be much better and yet the Giants may be a significantly better team. Here's why. 1) Lets not forget that the Giants were more or less gifted 4 wins last year playing against backup QBs and teams that were severely hurting in general (more than the Giants were when they played them, the Giant's injuries came after those wins). So personally I don't view last year's team as a 5 - 11 team. I think it was more like a 2 or 3 win team. 2) There is a lot of young talent on the Giants, that's a good thing - the needle is moving in the right direction. However the downside of that, is there are going to be lots of mistakes as these players transition to young vets. The Secondary is littered with rookies (I am including Beal in that). Expect rookie mistakes. The only pass rushers are Zo and X. Again I think they will improve over time, but they need that time. It's going to be a very bad combination of a poor pass rush, and rookie coverage mistakes. 3) Exacerbating 2, Jenkins and Bethea are on the downsides of their careers. They may still be good players, but they won't be the players they were in the past. 4) The OL on paper is far superior to last years version. Even the improved version that ended the season. Doing nothing but replacing Wheeler with a player that belongs in the NFL is a huge upgrade, not to mention Zeitler. However, they still need to play together and gel. Only Solder and Hernandez spent significant time together last year. It will take time before this line comes together. Also, Solder and Remmers are on the wrong side of 30, they can break down without notice, and there is very little backing them up. If either goes down, this offense is in big trouble. 5) Special teams were significantly better than league average last year (Football outsiders had us ranked 3rd). Our punter is meh, and we lost some of the special teams aces, and going into the year the players we were counting on for ST are banged up. Expect Special Team play to revert to somewhere near average (although Rosas is awesome, so maybe a bit above) So I don't see 6 - 10 as showing no improvement. In fact, I see 6 - 10 as proof that the team is moving in the right direction. I see going from what I believe was really a 2 or 3 win team with very little talent, to a 9 or 10 win team as unrealistic. Going to a 6 win team this year and 9 or 10 wins next year is perfectly within reason.

I do think the defense will improve with more time. As I said above, these kinds of struggles are to be expected when you have rookies in the secondary. Rookie and 2nd year guys are edge (who can't generate a consistent rush). Ugly is expected.

If Zeitler is really hurt, things can go downhill fast.

Folks need to take a deep breath, lower expectations, and watch for incremental improvement.

By the quarterback change.

But I too have lost confidence in this coaching staff

In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:

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Or at least decently competitive. Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding. Predictions Britt in VA : 10-6 TrueBlue56 : 9-7 ryanmkeane : 9-7 5BowlsSoon : 10-6 bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6 Steve in ATL : 9-7 Diver_Down : 12-4 mfsd : 10-6 armstead98 : 11-5 Ira : 9-7 Gap92 : 9-7 Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )

lol

In comment 14578738 Eric from BBI said:

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I expected growing pains with the defense, but I didn't expect them to look this clueless. I also expected the offense to revolve around Saquon more.

Eric, I really do think this is more of a coaching issue on defense. These guys are not getting beaten so much one on one. We are seeing communication and assignment confusion. We had this issue a few years ago and it seemed to get cleaned up the moment we fired the DC.

I would not waste any time finding a new DC right now. We really have nothing to lose at this point.

In comment 14579218 Jim in Scranton said:

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over preseason! It was just preseason.

The ONLY thing that I felt good about when watching the pre season games was the fact that our OL was not getting pushed back into Eli's face like we saw in prior years.

In comment 14579218 Jim in Scranton said:

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over preseason! It was just preseason.

And anyone who laughed at the idea of preseason being an indicator of anything was attacked for being a hater, a miserable pessimist who must not really be a Giants fan.

The reason I'm furious is that I thought, since the moment last season ended, that this team was bound to suck again this year. It was pretty obvious.

And, in spite of that, the org insisted that they had a real chance to win now, added numerous mediocre veterans who won't or shouldn't be here by the time they can really compete again (Tate, Golden, Bethea), and chose not to save $17M on Eli that could be used to help build the roster in future years.

They basically asked all of us to just hang in there because the thing that was suffocating the team the past few seasons was some "culture" bug (OBJ, Snacks, Vernon) that they had put behind them, and now they had the right recipe to win.

Many people saw it for the farce it was, including most of the beat reporters, and the only responses from Gettleman were the same bombastic, condescending bullshit. Anyone calling their approach into question just doesn't get how this business works, or some bullshit like that.

They only have themselves to blame. Throughout the process, they've been their own worst adversary at every turn.

The Giants were selling everyone a bill of goods that claimed talent wasn't the real problem - it was culture. There were too many bad apples in the clubhouse who were poisoning everyone else. So, all offseason we were told what a wonderful group of guys they have now, and how this would instill a winning attitude without all the bad actors.

Hasn't quite worked out that way.

were right to me

Odell
yes I’m cancer to a place that’s ok wit losing because I want to win that BADDD

Landon
“I know with myself, [Harrison], Odell, [Vernon], all we wanted to do was win, and we spoke up because we had to get them to listen to us,” Collins said, via ESPN. “We had to get them to get us winning pieces to help us at least be contenders.

“I think we were too vocal, and that platform was bigger than the Giants, you know, and our words stood out more. And … if it’s not good media, they don’t want that kind of media.”