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Why are people so up in arms on this board?

GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:04 pm
This team stunk last year. STUNK. They started winning against teams that had given up or had their backup QBs in. And they "snuck up" and played teams tough that were good teams because they came out flat against the lowly Giants. You really bought that bullshit DG was saying in the off-season?

Anyone who really expected a good competitive team this year was delusional.

Did you guys expect all these rookies to come in and play like pro bowlers right away? I didn't.

This team has no difference maker at WR and an old now shitty QB. We have a decent offensive line with a STUD RB but a TE who can't block. And the defense is all kids or overpaid vets. And mediocre at best coaches (this was VERY clear last year).

It's why I want Shurmur fired after last year. You knew he was shitty. Seriously how many games did he fuck up last year? And by keeping him, you were delaying the next rebuild that will happen as the new coach will want to bring in his guys for his system. Because make no mistake he will be fired after next year or the year after.

But this season has gone exactly as expected. None of what is happening is news or unexpected. This is a year where the kids get experience and we move on from Eli. We then hopefully spend our FA money wisely and have another good draft and can start competing next year.
We wanted to see progress  
bradshaw44 : 9/15/2019 9:05 pm : link
.
What progress though?  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:07 pm : link
The QB is now a year OLDER. You have the same shitty coaches (they aren't new coaches learning they have been around). You have MORE rookies playing on defense.

Where did you expect to see this progress?

Barkley looks better. The O-line looks better.

But this team still stinks. There was A LOT of work to do to make this a competitive team.
....  
BleedBlue : 9/15/2019 9:09 pm : link
I agree we stink but I think fans are very quick to blame coaching. The players play, sure we can put em in position to aid victory but when it's all said and done, your edge players need to set edge and rush passer, your interior DL needs to push and collapse pocket. Your LBers have to tackle and play with good instincts. Your corners have to cover, your WRs have to catch the ball, your QB has to throw accurately, your OL has to open lanes and protect QB.

We have done VERY little of this in the first two games. I don't love shurmur but I also think he is dealing with a situation where they are setting up for Jones but forced to play Eli. I think shumur badly wants Jones to be his guy but he can't. It def hinders how he calls plays. Once Jones gets in, I think you will see a different looking offense. Again coaches help but players play and you need the horses to win the race. Ultimately, belicheck needs Brady more than Brady needs BB
I think everyone is thinking we might be competitive at the very least  
Rjanyg : 9/15/2019 9:09 pm : link
Most have predicted anywhere from 6-10 to 8-8 for a record but right now with injuries, suspensions and the mix of youth and aging vets, this team looks over matched.

IMO they have some talent and building blocks, but the problem seems to be just as much coaching as anything.
Personally  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 9:10 pm : link
I expected growing pains with the defense, but I didn't expect them to look this clueless.

I also expected the offense to revolve around Saquon more.
So,  
Reese's Pieces : 9/15/2019 9:14 pm : link
But this season has gone exactly as expected. None of what is happening is news or unexpected. This is a year where the kids get experience and we move on from Eli. We then hopefully spend our FA money wisely and have another good draft and can start competing next year.

Because the season hasn't gone exactly as expected. I expected the defense to play lousy and for the team to lose a lot, but I thought during the year we would identify at least four or five quality defensive starters. Then next off-season, if we added three or four more quality defensive starters, we would be competitive.

You expect to put a winning defense now in only one more off season? Which current Giants defensive starters could start for the Cowboys or the Eagles?
Because this team is a dumpster fire  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
There is no direction, no vision and no talent. We squandered opportunities to rebuild the franchise and completely bungled it. This rebuild needs a rebuild.
Did you see the predictions  
MyNameIsMyName : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
From this board? Most expected a good year for some reason.
It was expected  
darren in pdx : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
but itís still disappointing because thereís no glimmer of hope aside from Barkley until they put Jones in.
Forget competitive  
jcn56 : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
People weren't looking for a playoff spot this year (or at least they shouldn't have).

Forget Eli - most understood that Eli's best football years are behind him.

What most people were hoping to see were some signs of life. Some form of football surrounded by growing pains of youth and inexperience.

Instead - we've been subjected to a team that looks outclassed at every level. They don't seem to have the physical tools. They never look prepared. The coaching staff always seems to be a step behind their opponent. Games haven't just been uncompetitive, they haven't been watchable.

Considering the current GM brought most of these ingredients together - from gutting the roster to hiring his own coaches - it's hard to believe that this team has much upside to it.
Maybe it's different for me  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
Because I knew coming into the year Shurmur sucked. My expectations for him and the team were super low.

I saw a poster talk about LBs. Which LB do we have that is worth a damn? Ogletree??? He's overpaid and overrated, which was also VERY clear last year. Connelly is the best LB on the team.

Eric I agree about Barkley not being the centerpiece enough, but he should have been more last year too. This isn't a new issue. It's a Shurmur issue that was here last year too. How long did it take them last year to start having him run actual pass routes? 8 weeks? Once again, not new issues.
Baby steps  
Canton : 9/15/2019 9:16 pm : link
The defense looked better than last week. They may not be improving by leaps and bounds..but their's been improvement.

We also don't have Shep and Tate and Ziegs has a bum shoulder.

As long as the defense progresses throughout the season, we'll be fine.

It's all about 2020-21  
Canton : 9/15/2019 9:17 pm : link
.
Because  
Sammo85 : 9/15/2019 9:17 pm : link
this organization has been in a drowning spiral going in 7 years now since the last SB. One winning season and playoff trip (which ended up being an embarrassing loss in GB).

Front office seems to not be in synch with what they want to do with talent on the field and how to beat other teams.

The coaching has been horrendous as even at the end when Coughlin was here there were problems with his discipline (ie Beckham) and getting some consistency in all three phases.

Ownership has shown itself to be clueless and ranging from meddling when itís inappropriate (QB) to showing up too little too late (McAdoo, Beckham) when some adults in the room where needed.

Right now I donít see much hope even for next year. Theyíd need an incredible draft and FA infusion and for Jones to be somewhat dynamic.
It's too early to judge the kids on defense  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:17 pm : link
It's been 2 weeks. Can we give them a full season and an off-season before we declare them busts.
RE: Baby steps  
TyreeHelmet : 9/15/2019 9:19 pm : link
In comment 14578762 Canton said:
Quote:
The defense looked better than last week. They may not be improving by leaps and bounds..but their's been improvement.

We also don't have Shep and Tate and Ziegs has a bum shoulder.

As long as the defense progresses throughout the season, we'll be fine.


Pass that over here because youíre smoking some good stuff....
We  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 9:20 pm : link
were told that Eli would be a lot better with improvements to the offense, even without OBJ. The offense did play better at the end of last year, but Eli can't move. No one expected the defense to be this bad, especially in the secondary.
I expected 4-12  
larryflower37 : 9/15/2019 9:21 pm : link
But it is still extremely painful and frustrating to watch it.
It's been too many season of losing and I have zero confidence management but I still watch every game with hope I am wrong.
the defense did not look better than last week  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:21 pm : link
Buffalo called off the dogs in the 1st half! Those kneels at the end of the half were them saying game is over lets get out of here.

Then the second the Giants made it kinda close they went RIGHT down the field and scored a TD.

The defense did not get better as the game went on and did not get better from last week.
ACID you believed Eli would be better?  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:22 pm : link
I didn't. He's been cooked for years and is now a year older.
Defense  
TyreeHelmet : 9/15/2019 9:26 pm : link
I like Allen as a qb prospect but buffalo does not have a good offense and doesnít have one standout offensive player. And the Giants couldnít stop them on all levels. How could you think this defense improved?
I  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 9:26 pm : link
expected more scrappiness, less crappiness.
2012 - 2019...  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:29 pm : link

...ain't as bad as 1964 - 1980.

But the smell of rot is about the same.
Eric I agree with that 100%  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:29 pm : link
I just don't know if this is a lack of effort or just bad coaching / lack of talent. I mean they jumped out to leads in each game. I don't know if they came out flat. I just don't think they're any good and having bad to mediocre coaches and that level of talent leads to this type of product.
We are all upset because we care. You think it's easy to plan your  
Jim in Hoboken : 9/15/2019 9:30 pm : link
Sunday around a football game, casting your family aside for that time, and only to witness this abomination?

We are so used to losing at this point that even though we are bottom-3 bad we are still arguing among ourselves which aspect of the team is the least incompetent.

Sure, some are rash fans who react irrationally to everything, but we've lousy for 6 out of 7 years and I think by now it's those who still toe the company line that need to snap out of it. As much as we ridicule the Dolphins, is it a foregone conclusion that we will turn things around first? Hell no.
Always nice to hear from DGs agent  
gmenatlarge : 9/15/2019 9:30 pm : link
But I think most of us expected a somewhat competent team, not the totally inept shitshow we saw the last two weeks.
I will say this though about Baker  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:31 pm : link
He wasn't getting off any blocks down the field. I didn't see a lot of fight out of him. And that is troubling to me.
RE: Defense  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2019 9:31 pm : link
In comment 14578797 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I like Allen as a qb prospect but buffalo does not have a good offense and doesnít have one standout offensive player. And the Giants couldnít stop them on all levels. How could you think this defense improved?


They have a solid WRs and RBs. Their line is the issue, and the scary thing is half the pressure came from coverage. Baker had a God awful game, but I think the coverage looks much worse than it is because of the communication breakdowns.
RE: I will say this though about Baker  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2019 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14578806 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
He wasn't getting off any blocks down the field. I didn't see a lot of fight out of him. And that is troubling to me.


Uh just flashed backed to Peppers getting absolutely manhandled on that td run.
I'm not defending DG or the team at all  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:33 pm : link
I've been very critical of DG. I just see all these posts about how the sky is falling and I don't get it. I expected this. I'm just looking for some silver linings in the season like the kids getting better and Jones playing and hopefully playing well
RE: Did you see the predictions  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 9:33 pm : link
In comment 14578755 MyNameIsMyName said:
Quote:
From this board? Most expected a good year for some reason.


Yep a lot of poster were making threads about their good feeling about this team, the culture, and the foundation DG set. Some were even doing side by side comparison of last years defense to this year and showing that we improved.
RE: I  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14578798 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
expected more scrappiness, less crappiness.


Yes. I thought there would be miscommunications in the secondary that led to blown coverages, but this is ridiculous. They also aren't using Baker correctly. He needs to play straight man right now, or be benched if he's still nursing the injury to his knee.
RE: Eric I agree with that 100%  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14578801 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
I just don't know if this is a lack of effort or just bad coaching / lack of talent. I mean they jumped out to leads in each game. I don't know if they came out flat. I just don't think they're any good and having bad to mediocre coaches and that level of talent leads to this type of product.

Lack of effort and bad coaching. When your team is the laughing stock of the NFL, just about everything is bad. Real bad!
RE: I  
bradshaw44 : 9/15/2019 9:35 pm : link
In comment 14578798 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
expected more scrappiness, less crappiness.


Great line. Sums it up nicely. We all know the team is in transition. We want the players that are here to show that they believe in the plan. And if they donít then that speak volumes about the coach.
RE: I'm not defending DG or the team at all  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:37 pm : link
In comment 14578818 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
I've been very critical of DG. I just see all these posts about how the sky is falling and I don't get it. I expected this. I'm just looking for some silver linings in the season like the kids getting better and Jones playing and hopefully playing well

Here's a silver lining: we're drafting Top 3 next year.

Want another? John Mara wakes up from his stupor and fires Pat Shurmur.
i think shurmur is getting a full year of jones  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:40 pm : link
before being fired.
RE: RE: Defense  
TyreeHelmet : 9/15/2019 9:43 pm : link
In comment 14578807 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14578797 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


I like Allen as a qb prospect but buffalo does not have a good offense and doesnít have one standout offensive player. And the Giants couldnít stop them on all levels. How could you think this defense improved?



They have a solid WRs and RBs. Their line is the issue, and the scary thing is half the pressure came from coverage. Baker had a God awful game, but I think the coverage looks much worse than it is because of the communication breakdowns.


They donít have 1 skill player that nfl defenses fear. Their RBs/ WRs arenít in the top 20 of the nfl. And the Giants couldnít stop them. Scary thought for how the rest of season goes.
RE: i think shurmur is getting a full year of jones  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:46 pm : link
In comment 14578859 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
before being fired.

You're probably right, but we can always dream. IMO, the true re-build of this pathetic franchise begins when we get a winning Head Coach in here.
Who do you want to replace Shurmur with?  
Optimus-NY : 9/15/2019 9:51 pm : link
?
Because there's no plan. The team is going in every direction at once.  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 9/15/2019 9:51 pm : link
This is yet another wasted year. The team is squandering resources on a quixotic goal of competing, instead of biting the bullet and going into full rebuild mode.

Honestly, we should have been in full-on rebuild mode last year.

The defense is bad  
AcesUp : 9/15/2019 9:51 pm : link
You should have expected bad. We need to be hoping it gets better. There isn't a ton of money invested there and only recently has there been a draft focus there. We need to hope that Baker starts looking better and an alpha (or beta) pass rusher emerges. If we suck all year on defense, but the secondary improves and somebody in the front 7 emerges as a second contract guy at pass rush...then it's a win for us. And way before that you hope our rookie QB plays alright.
The Bills had no worries playing man/press on the WRs  
aka dbrny : 9/15/2019 9:53 pm : link
Which gives them lots of options in how to deal with Barkley
Then thereís the defense  
aka dbrny : 9/15/2019 9:53 pm : link
...
RE: Who do you want to replace Shurmur with?  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
?


Honestly, I want an experienced HC who has had success in the past. Donít know who that will be or if such a guy will be available, but thatís the goal. Once, we finally move to Jones, I want a guy who could maximize that two to three year window, where saquon and Jones are on their rookie deals
Some teams can turn things around quickly. One season, maybe two.  
Waldo Jeffers : 9/15/2019 9:56 pm : link
Right now it seems as if the Giants do improve it'll feel like it's happening in dog years.

There's baby steps and then there's snail-speed.

At the moment it feels as if the Giants were scheduled to play against nobody, nobody would be favored.
which coach do i want?  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 10:03 pm : link
Matt Eberflus
For those at the game  
redwhiteandbigblue : 9/15/2019 10:17 pm : link
The defense looked lost. Over and over lb's and db's were pointing and shifting and looked like they had no idea where they should be on the field. I am getting the impression the defensive scheme (whatever it may be) tis too complicated at this stage of the young season. It reminds me of the Tim Lewis days when there was basically a mutiny by players over the fact the defense was too complicated.
And the most  
redwhiteandbigblue : 9/15/2019 10:19 pm : link
Confused defensive player on the field was Peppers. Looks completely lost and out of position all too often.
RE: RE: Who do you want to replace Shurmur with?  
bradshaw44 : 9/15/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14578911 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


?



Honestly, I want an experienced HC who has had success in the past. Donít know who that will be or if such a guy will be available, but thatís the goal. Once, we finally move to Jones, I want a guy who could maximize that two to three year window, where saquon and Jones are on their rookie deals


Agreed. I wanted Cowher the past two times. I still want Cowher. Myself and Eric were both saying we need a strong established coach to right the ship. And we still do. And Cowher was also known for bonding with the younger players which is paramount in todayís NFL.

Giants should make a serious play for him when they inevitably fire PS.
RE: Because there's no plan. The team is going in every direction at once.  
lax counsel : 9/15/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14578897 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
This is yet another wasted year. The team is squandering resources on a quixotic goal of competing, instead of biting the bullet and going into full rebuild mode.

Honestly, we should have been in full-on rebuild mode last year.


This is 100% spot on. The disaster started long ago, but was doubled down in the 2018 offseason. From that draft on it was nothing more than doubling down on the band aid strategy. The franchise hopes now rest with Jones. If hes mediocre or bad. Look out, itís going be a ghost town in MetLife for years to come.

But hereís the thing, thereís no point in Jones being on the bench anymore. If served the franchise now point going forward. If the 6th pick in the draft isnít ready to play, DG and Shurmur just look awful.
RE: Who do you want to replace Shurmur with?  
The_Boss : 9/15/2019 10:34 pm : link
In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
?


Lincoln Riley.

Whatever it costs.

And when we move on from DG, I want someone who isnít one of John Maraís LinkedIn contacts.
RE: We wanted to see progress  
Photoguy : 9/15/2019 10:41 pm : link
In comment 14578723 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
.


We're TWO FUCKING GAMES into the season. Give it time, for God's sake.
Wasn't nearly this bad  
ghost718 : 9/15/2019 10:41 pm : link
When Jerry was putting us side by side with the earth's core.

But now it seems like an angry mob is on the loose.2 years into a rebuild.
The team is bad, but has promise  
PhilSimms15 : 9/15/2019 10:59 pm : link
Gettleman and Mara should have seen the writing on the wall after the three-win season. I, for one, felt like they were treating the fans like idiots. We all watched Eli in 2017 and knew he was done.

Both those two told us not to believe our eyes, or the data, just trust them.

If the management of this team finally did whatís right and thank Eli for his amazing career but let him know that this season is going to be a graduate program for all the kids, including Jones. The team will take its lumps and lose lots of games. But it might mean getting the young guys valuable on field experience so next season the Giants wonít need to start from scratch.

Honestly, they will lose the same amount of games if the Giants keep playing Eli, Bethea, Olgetree, Jack Rabbit, Tate as if they played the young guys more extensively.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath  
giantstock : 9/15/2019 11:03 pm : link
This was supposed to be a lousy team. Be patient -- see what the young kids show you as season progresses.

Jones is the key.

FA is available next year along with more draft picks.
Oh FFS  
allstarjim : 9/15/2019 11:03 pm : link
This team has a starting QB that is on his way out. Teams are rightly dedicating a lot of attention to the two threats on offense, Engram and Saquon, ESPECIALLY Saquon. You cannot force feed the guy when they are giving you one on one off coverage on the Fowler's and Cody Core's.

Shurmur's system is working to move the ball, but they are not finishing drives. That speaks to the lack of talent at WR, as well as the lack of the QB to be able to extend plays when protection isn't ideal. Shurmur deserves his shot with his QB. It serves NO ONE to switch up the coaches on a young team.

Constant rotating of coaching staff's is what bad teams do. It's what the Browns have done to make them perennial losers.

This defense is too young, and the QB not having the skills necessary anymoreto compete with the modern offenses of today's game, to be able to expect a winner.

Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.

Buckle up, nancies. It would be PHENOMENAL for the Giants to have a top 2 pick in the 2020 draft with the QBs coming out. They will command a haul that will allow them to address pass-rusher and OT AND WR.

If you had expectations of playoffs with either Eli at this stage or a rookie QB at the helm, you're the problem, not this team. DG has done a great job addressing the trenches and has his QB of the future. Now let the kids learn and grow together while he finishes this roster with the talent he's going to bring in once Eli's contract is off the books and with the draft next year, with what I hope will be multiple #1's again. I hope the Giants go 3-13 again this year with the only wins being against Eagles, Cowboys, and Redskins. Good night!
RE: Oh FFS  
lax counsel : 9/15/2019 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14579085 allstarjim said:
Quote:
This team has a starting QB that is on his way out. Teams are rightly dedicating a lot of attention to the two threats on offense, Engram and Saquon, ESPECIALLY Saquon. You cannot force feed the guy when they are giving you one on one off coverage on the Fowler's and Cody Core's.

Shurmur's system is working to move the ball, but they are not finishing drives. That speaks to the lack of talent at WR, as well as the lack of the QB to be able to extend plays when protection isn't ideal. Shurmur deserves his shot with his QB. It serves NO ONE to switch up the coaches on a young team.

Constant rotating of coaching staff's is what bad teams do. It's what the Browns have done to make them perennial losers.

This defense is too young, and the QB not having the skills necessary anymoreto compete with the modern offenses of today's game, to be able to expect a winner.

Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.

Buckle up, nancies. It would be PHENOMENAL for the Giants to have a top 2 pick in the 2020 draft with the QBs coming out. They will command a haul that will allow them to address pass-rusher and OT AND WR.

If you had expectations of playoffs with either Eli at this stage or a rookie QB at the helm, you're the problem, not this team. DG has done a great job addressing the trenches and has his QB of the future. Now let the kids learn and grow together while he finishes this roster with the talent he's going to bring in once Eli's contract is off the books and with the draft next year, with what I hope will be multiple #1's again. I hope the Giants go 3-13 again this year with the only wins being against Eagles, Cowboys, and Redskins. Good night!


This is very reasonable, except how do we know he is the qb of the future? They wonít know unless he gets significant time this season. They better find out quickly with the quality of qbs coming out in 2020.
RE: Oh FFS  
giantstock : 9/15/2019 11:11 pm : link
In comment 14579085 allstarjim said:
Quote:


Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.



Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance.
Why now are people deciding that this was supposed to be  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2019 11:17 pm : link
a lousy team?

They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year.

The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan.
RE: Why now are people deciding that this was supposed to be  
giantstock : 9/15/2019 11:19 pm : link
In comment 14579121 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
a lousy team?

They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year.

The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan.


Huh? You didn't expect this to be a lousy team?
to the Op  
AndyMilligan : 9/15/2019 11:21 pm : link
it's not the we expected to be good. We knew we were not good. We want to be not good with our future QB rather than the washed up QB who can't do it anymore.
RE: RE: Oh FFS  
allstarjim : 9/15/2019 11:29 pm : link
In comment 14579103 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14579085 allstarjim said:


Quote:




Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.





Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance.


They should show marked improvement next year. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting a first year starter to compete for the division, especially this division, is great if it happens but not terribly realistic.
RE: RE: Why now are people deciding that this was supposed to be  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/15/2019 11:31 pm : link
In comment 14579127 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14579121 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


a lousy team?

They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year.

The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan.



Huh? You didn't expect this to be a lousy team?


I did, because I disliked most of what they did this offseason. But the front office isn't tanking. This is the result of them trying to win as many games as they can. This year wasn't about being lousy. It was supposed to be Eli's retirement tour.
RE: RE: RE: Oh FFS  
giantstock : 9/15/2019 11:35 pm : link
In comment 14579155 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14579103 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14579085 allstarjim said:


Quote:




Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.





Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance.



They should show marked improvement next year. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting a first year starter to compete for the division, especially this division, is great if it happens but not terribly realistic.


1st year starter is a slight misnomer. He'll play this year and get lots of time. Secondly, this QB starter should have a functioning OL and more importantly one of the greatest RB's ever. Barkley will make the game easier for Jones.

Barkley is incredible. Year 2 of Jones he should be very good. This GM should have built something after two years. We think he has a pretty good OL. We think he got a real good QB and he has a super super super super amazing RB and he will have another draft and FA to build his defense. That's playoff caliber if he does it right.

SB is top 3 players in football.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Oh FFS  
giantstock : 9/15/2019 11:38 pm : link
In comment 14579159 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14579155 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 14579103 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14579085 allstarjim said:


Quote:




Gettleman is in year 2 of a 3 year re-build. And yes, I expect the Giants to be much better next year, but the real year to compete in the division and in the playoffs is the 2021 season. Not before.





Bull crap. Next year is 3rd year of rebuild. Playoffs should be there next year. If there isn't then the GM blew it. You can't go and say it's a 3 year rebuild then when it comes time excuse it unless some unusual circumstance.



They should show marked improvement next year. That is a reasonable expectation. Expecting a first year starter to compete for the division, especially this division, is great if it happens but not terribly realistic.



1st year starter is a slight misnomer. He'll play this year and get lots of time. Secondly, this QB starter should have a functioning OL and more importantly one of the greatest RB's ever. Barkley will make the game easier for Jones.

Barkley is incredible. Year 2 of Jones he should be very good. This GM should have built something after two years. We think he has a pretty good OL. We think he got a real good QB and he has a super super super super amazing RB and he will have another draft and FA to build his defense. That's playoff caliber if he does it right.

SB is top 3 players in football.


Year 3 should be the year. I suppose we wouldn't scream if we got knocked out last game of the season in year 3. But you said 3 year rebuild. Next year is year 3.
A lot of people expected the team to be good this year  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 9/15/2019 11:41 pm : link
Or at least decently competitive.

Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding.

Predictions

Britt in VA : 10-6
TrueBlue56 : 9-7
ryanmkeane : 9-7
5BowlsSoon : 10-6
bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6
Steve in ATL : 9-7
Diver_Down : 12-4
mfsd : 10-6
armstead98 : 11-5
Ira : 9-7
Gap92 : 9-7


Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )
RE: We  
allstarjim : 9/15/2019 11:42 pm : link
In comment 14578775 AcidTest said:
Quote:
were told that Eli would be a lot better with improvements to the offense, even without OBJ. The offense did play better at the end of last year, but Eli can't move. No one expected the defense to be this bad, especially in the secondary.


I did.
RE: A lot of people expected the team to be good this year  
giantstock : 9/15/2019 11:45 pm : link
In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
Or at least decently competitive.

Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding.

Predictions

Britt in VA : 10-6
TrueBlue56 : 9-7
ryanmkeane : 9-7
5BowlsSoon : 10-6
bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6
Steve in ATL : 9-7
Diver_Down : 12-4
mfsd : 10-6
armstead98 : 11-5
Ira : 9-7
Gap92 : 9-7
Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )


I used to say on here I thought this site was way too positive. But just look nationally. This team was projected to be 6-10. David Te was calling DG nuts and predicted he would ultimately be fired.
RE: A lot of people expected the team to be good this year  
The_Boss : 9/15/2019 11:45 pm : link
In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
Or at least decently competitive.

Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding.

Predictions

Britt in VA : 10-6
TrueBlue56 : 9-7
ryanmkeane : 9-7
5BowlsSoon : 10-6
bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6
Steve in ATL : 9-7
Diver_Down : 12-4
mfsd : 10-6
armstead98 : 11-5
Ira : 9-7
Gap92 : 9-7
Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )


Good find...I got some posters telling me my 4-5 win prediction was absurd. Hey, Iíll sign up for 5-11 right now. This could be a 3 win team.
RE: Why now are people deciding that this was supposed to be  
allstarjim : 9/15/2019 11:47 pm : link
In comment 14579121 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
a lousy team?

They expected to have a better offense thru an improved offensive line. We can bitch and moan about the quality of the wide receivers, if you absolutely need to have an excuse, but the reality is their expected starters are a 32 year old WR who was never a #1 option, and a slot guy masquerading as a #2. That was their plan for this year.

The defense was expected to not be good. Now we're changing the expectation to fool people into believing that everything is going according to plan.



BBI is not a monolith of opinion.
Nobody really expected this team to be good  
Mike from Ohio : 9/15/2019 11:48 pm : link
But I think almost everyone expected them to play competent football. This looks like a pick-up team. They supposedly loaded up on guys who play hard and play the right way, but outside of Barkley none of them really do it competently.
RE: A lot of people expected the team to be good this year  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2019 11:51 pm : link
In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
Or at least decently competitive.

Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding.

Predictions

Britt in VA : 10-6
TrueBlue56 : 9-7
ryanmkeane : 9-7
5BowlsSoon : 10-6
bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6
Steve in ATL : 9-7
Diver_Down : 12-4
mfsd : 10-6
armstead98 : 11-5
Ira : 9-7
Gap92 : 9-7
Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )


I will stick to my prediction in that linked thread
My 6-10 prediction is looking way too optimistic at the moment  
Greg from LI : 9/15/2019 11:59 pm : link
.
RE: Nobody really expected this team to be good  
Nine-Tails : 9/16/2019 12:02 am : link
In comment 14579186 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
But I think almost everyone expected them to play competent football. This looks like a pick-up team. They supposedly loaded up on guys who play hard and play the right way, but outside of Barkley none of them really do it competently.


The post from Gary begs to differ
I saw improvement  
allstarjim : 9/16/2019 12:21 am : link
On the defense.

38% 3rd down efficiency allowed today, last week it was 60%.

Forced 5 2nd half punts.

Better pass rush. It may only be about the difference in opponent but the bottom line is they did play better. Still not winning football but I didn't think they looked as completely lost as they did last week.

I said last year this wasn't going to be a 1 year rebuild. This is a stepping stone year and tbh I really hope they don't win many games. There are no trophies for 7-9. Sure, I enjoy when they win but losing this year is in the best interests of the franchise.

And to the poster that said Jones will start this year, I don't believe that is a given until MAYBE late in the year.

They need one more really good draft and let Jones takeover. Next year they should be competitive but I don't expect playoffs. If I made a prediction for this year it would've been 7-9 at the height of optimism.

You can't look at the number of rookies on defense and assume they'd be competent year one, especially not this early.

Hope springs eternal in preseason and when the optimists of this board are predicting 9-7 then you know that even with complete homerism it's not a playoff team. No unbiased party would've predicted a winning record this year.

I'm just happy football is back. I'm also happy to see an influx of some talent. If Jones is a flop then all the criticism of DG will be warranted. To think that the team would be a winner because we have a bunch of rookies minus OBJ with the same QB that has given the same consistent results for a number of years now is not rational. But we are fans and are rarely rational when it comes to our team.

It's understandable but the smart thing to do is take a step back from the ledge and realize this is going to take some time. I like the young players we brought in for the most part.
Many  
lax counsel : 9/16/2019 12:21 am : link
Posters expected this team to be good. Thatís the thing about the internet and BBi, you can always find what was written - as Gary just depicted. In fact , a small handful of vocal posters would verbally abuse realistic posters who dared question the status quo of a franchise thatís been awful for nearly a decade (funny, those posters have gone largely radio silent).
To be clear, some people here were very optimistic  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 9/16/2019 12:22 am : link
Out in the real world, pretty much everyone said we were a bad team.

My co-worker is a Cowboys fan. He was busting on me pretty bad this morning and I couldn't really say anything. That's painful.

Everyone got excited  
Jim in Scranton : 9/16/2019 12:25 am : link
over preseason! It was just preseason.
RE: Everyone got excited  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 9/16/2019 12:35 am : link
In comment 14579218 Jim in Scranton said:
Quote:
over preseason! It was just preseason.


That was a big part of it. People should know better than that.
RE: Everyone needs to take a deep breath  
81_Great_Dane : 9/16/2019 1:46 am : link
In comment 14579084 giantstock said:
Quote:
This was supposed to be a lousy team. Be patient -- see what the young kids show you as season progresses.

Jones is the key.

FA is available next year along with more draft picks.
This.
I said numerous times this was still a bad team  
.McL. : 9/16/2019 3:05 am : link
Either, I would be ignored, or in a few cases shouted down and told I must not be a true fan...

For what it's worth, I am a diehard fan. But I have learned how to be objective about the team, and not see them through blue colored glasses.

Here is what I posted on the predict the record thread posted above.

Quote:
I'm sticking with my earlier 6 - 10
.McL. : 8/30/2019 1:21 pm : link : reply
To the folks who are the polyannas on this thread...
(and I use the term polyanna as it was on here back in the 90s when we had the polyanna vs. realist debates, and the polyannas wore the label proudly! :) So don't be offended by the term)

Every year is different. Comparing to last year is a bit of a fools errand. Our record may not be much better and yet the Giants may be a significantly better team. Here's why.

1) Lets not forget that the Giants were more or less gifted 4 wins last year playing against backup QBs and teams that were severely hurting in general (more than the Giants were when they played them, the Giant's injuries came after those wins). So personally I don't view last year's team as a 5 - 11 team. I think it was more like a 2 or 3 win team.

2) There is a lot of young talent on the Giants, that's a good thing - the needle is moving in the right direction. However the downside of that, is there are going to be lots of mistakes as these players transition to young vets. The Secondary is littered with rookies (I am including Beal in that). Expect rookie mistakes. The only pass rushers are Zo and X. Again I think they will improve over time, but they need that time. It's going to be a very bad combination of a poor pass rush, and rookie coverage mistakes.

3) Exacerbating 2, Jenkins and Bethea are on the downsides of their careers. They may still be good players, but they won't be the players they were in the past.

4) The OL on paper is far superior to last years version. Even the improved version that ended the season. Doing nothing but replacing Wheeler with a player that belongs in the NFL is a huge upgrade, not to mention Zeitler. However, they still need to play together and gel. Only Solder and Hernandez spent significant time together last year. It will take time before this line comes together. Also, Solder and Remmers are on the wrong side of 30, they can break down without notice, and there is very little backing them up. If either goes down, this offense is in big trouble.

5) Special teams were significantly better than league average last year (Football outsiders had us ranked 3rd). Our punter is meh, and we lost some of the special teams aces, and going into the year the players we were counting on for ST are banged up. Expect Special Team play to revert to somewhere near average (although Rosas is awesome, so maybe a bit above)

So I don't see 6 - 10 as showing no improvement. In fact, I see 6 - 10 as proof that the team is moving in the right direction. I see going from what I believe was really a 2 or 3 win team with very little talent, to a 9 or 10 win team as unrealistic. Going to a 6 win team this year and 9 or 10 wins next year is perfectly within reason.


I do think the defense will improve with more time. As I said above, these kinds of struggles are to be expected when you have rookies in the secondary. Rookie and 2nd year guys are edge (who can't generate a consistent rush). Ugly is expected.

If Zeitler is really hurt, things can go downhill fast.

Folks need to take a deep breath, lower expectations, and watch for incremental improvement.
This team will be energized  
joeinpa : 9/16/2019 6:58 am : link
By the quarterback change.

But I too have lost confidence in this coaching staff
RE: A lot of people expected the team to be good this year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/16/2019 7:13 am : link
In comment 14579166 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
Or at least decently competitive.

Don't try this revisionist history nonsense where everyone knew we were going to suck because we're rebuilding.

Predictions

Britt in VA : 10-6
TrueBlue56 : 9-7
ryanmkeane : 9-7
5BowlsSoon : 10-6
bigblue1124 : 9-7/10-6
Steve in ATL : 9-7
Diver_Down : 12-4
mfsd : 10-6
armstead98 : 11-5
Ira : 9-7
Gap92 : 9-7
Now that Preseason is done predict our record - ( New Window )


lol
RE: Personally  
EricJ : 9/16/2019 7:16 am : link
In comment 14578738 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I expected growing pains with the defense, but I didn't expect them to look this clueless.

I also expected the offense to revolve around Saquon more.


Eric, I really do think this is more of a coaching issue on defense. These guys are not getting beaten so much one on one. We are seeing communication and assignment confusion. We had this issue a few years ago and it seemed to get cleaned up the moment we fired the DC.

I would not waste any time finding a new DC right now. We really have nothing to lose at this point.
RE: Everyone got excited  
EricJ : 9/16/2019 7:18 am : link
In comment 14579218 Jim in Scranton said:
Quote:
over preseason! It was just preseason.


The ONLY thing that I felt good about when watching the pre season games was the fact that our OL was not getting pushed back into Eli's face like we saw in prior years.
RE: Everyone got excited  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2019 10:02 am : link
In comment 14579218 Jim in Scranton said:
Quote:
over preseason! It was just preseason.


And anyone who laughed at the idea of preseason being an indicator of anything was attacked for being a hater, a miserable pessimist who must not really be a Giants fan.
I'll only speak for myself  
bigbluehoya : 9/16/2019 10:29 am : link
The reason I'm furious is that I thought, since the moment last season ended, that this team was bound to suck again this year. It was pretty obvious.

And, in spite of that, the org insisted that they had a real chance to win now, added numerous mediocre veterans who won't or shouldn't be here by the time they can really compete again (Tate, Golden, Bethea), and chose not to save $17M on Eli that could be used to help build the roster in future years.

They basically asked all of us to just hang in there because the thing that was suffocating the team the past few seasons was some "culture" bug (OBJ, Snacks, Vernon) that they had put behind them, and now they had the right recipe to win.

Many people saw it for the farce it was, including most of the beat reporters, and the only responses from Gettleman were the same bombastic, condescending bullshit. Anyone calling their approach into question just doesn't get how this business works, or some bullshit like that.

They only have themselves to blame. Throughout the process, they've been their own worst adversary at every turn.
what hoya said  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2019 10:33 am : link
The Giants were selling everyone a bill of goods that claimed talent wasn't the real problem - it was culture. There were too many bad apples in the clubhouse who were poisoning everyone else. So, all offseason we were told what a wonderful group of guys they have now, and how this would instill a winning attitude without all the bad actors.

Hasn't quite worked out that way.
Looks like the bad actors  
ron mexico : 9/16/2019 10:36 am : link
were right to me

Odell
yes Iím cancer to a place thatís ok wit losing because I want to win that BADDD

Landon
ďI know with myself, [Harrison], Odell, [Vernon], all we wanted to do was win, and we spoke up because we had to get them to listen to us,Ē Collins said, via ESPN. ďWe had to get them to get us winning pieces to help us at least be contenders.

ďI think we were too vocal, and that platform was bigger than the Giants, you know, and our words stood out more. And Ö if itís not good media, they donít want that kind of media.Ē
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