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Why are people so up in arms on this board?

GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:04 pm
This team stunk last year. STUNK. They started winning against teams that had given up or had their backup QBs in. And they "snuck up" and played teams tough that were good teams because they came out flat against the lowly Giants. You really bought that bullshit DG was saying in the off-season?

Anyone who really expected a good competitive team this year was delusional.

Did you guys expect all these rookies to come in and play like pro bowlers right away? I didn't.

This team has no difference maker at WR and an old now shitty QB. We have a decent offensive line with a STUD RB but a TE who can't block. And the defense is all kids or overpaid vets. And mediocre at best coaches (this was VERY clear last year).

It's why I want Shurmur fired after last year. You knew he was shitty. Seriously how many games did he fuck up last year? And by keeping him, you were delaying the next rebuild that will happen as the new coach will want to bring in his guys for his system. Because make no mistake he will be fired after next year or the year after.

But this season has gone exactly as expected. None of what is happening is news or unexpected. This is a year where the kids get experience and we move on from Eli. We then hopefully spend our FA money wisely and have another good draft and can start competing next year.
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We wanted to see progress  
bradshaw44 : 9/15/2019 9:05 pm : link
.
What progress though?  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:07 pm : link
The QB is now a year OLDER. You have the same shitty coaches (they aren't new coaches learning they have been around). You have MORE rookies playing on defense.

Where did you expect to see this progress?

Barkley looks better. The O-line looks better.

But this team still stinks. There was A LOT of work to do to make this a competitive team.
....  
BleedBlue : 9/15/2019 9:09 pm : link
I agree we stink but I think fans are very quick to blame coaching. The players play, sure we can put em in position to aid victory but when it's all said and done, your edge players need to set edge and rush passer, your interior DL needs to push and collapse pocket. Your LBers have to tackle and play with good instincts. Your corners have to cover, your WRs have to catch the ball, your QB has to throw accurately, your OL has to open lanes and protect QB.

We have done VERY little of this in the first two games. I don't love shurmur but I also think he is dealing with a situation where they are setting up for Jones but forced to play Eli. I think shumur badly wants Jones to be his guy but he can't. It def hinders how he calls plays. Once Jones gets in, I think you will see a different looking offense. Again coaches help but players play and you need the horses to win the race. Ultimately, belicheck needs Brady more than Brady needs BB
I think everyone is thinking we might be competitive at the very least  
Rjanyg : 9/15/2019 9:09 pm : link
Most have predicted anywhere from 6-10 to 8-8 for a record but right now with injuries, suspensions and the mix of youth and aging vets, this team looks over matched.

IMO they have some talent and building blocks, but the problem seems to be just as much coaching as anything.
Personally  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 9:10 pm : link
I expected growing pains with the defense, but I didn't expect them to look this clueless.

I also expected the offense to revolve around Saquon more.
So,  
Reese's Pieces : 9/15/2019 9:14 pm : link
But this season has gone exactly as expected. None of what is happening is news or unexpected. This is a year where the kids get experience and we move on from Eli. We then hopefully spend our FA money wisely and have another good draft and can start competing next year.

Because the season hasn't gone exactly as expected. I expected the defense to play lousy and for the team to lose a lot, but I thought during the year we would identify at least four or five quality defensive starters. Then next off-season, if we added three or four more quality defensive starters, we would be competitive.

You expect to put a winning defense now in only one more off season? Which current Giants defensive starters could start for the Cowboys or the Eagles?
Because this team is a dumpster fire  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
There is no direction, no vision and no talent. We squandered opportunities to rebuild the franchise and completely bungled it. This rebuild needs a rebuild.
Did you see the predictions  
MyNameIsMyName : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
From this board? Most expected a good year for some reason.
It was expected  
darren in pdx : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
but it’s still disappointing because there’s no glimmer of hope aside from Barkley until they put Jones in.
Forget competitive  
jcn56 : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
People weren't looking for a playoff spot this year (or at least they shouldn't have).

Forget Eli - most understood that Eli's best football years are behind him.

What most people were hoping to see were some signs of life. Some form of football surrounded by growing pains of youth and inexperience.

Instead - we've been subjected to a team that looks outclassed at every level. They don't seem to have the physical tools. They never look prepared. The coaching staff always seems to be a step behind their opponent. Games haven't just been uncompetitive, they haven't been watchable.

Considering the current GM brought most of these ingredients together - from gutting the roster to hiring his own coaches - it's hard to believe that this team has much upside to it.
Maybe it's different for me  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:15 pm : link
Because I knew coming into the year Shurmur sucked. My expectations for him and the team were super low.

I saw a poster talk about LBs. Which LB do we have that is worth a damn? Ogletree??? He's overpaid and overrated, which was also VERY clear last year. Connelly is the best LB on the team.

Eric I agree about Barkley not being the centerpiece enough, but he should have been more last year too. This isn't a new issue. It's a Shurmur issue that was here last year too. How long did it take them last year to start having him run actual pass routes? 8 weeks? Once again, not new issues.
Baby steps  
Canton : 9/15/2019 9:16 pm : link
The defense looked better than last week. They may not be improving by leaps and bounds..but their's been improvement.

We also don't have Shep and Tate and Ziegs has a bum shoulder.

As long as the defense progresses throughout the season, we'll be fine.

It's all about 2020-21  
Canton : 9/15/2019 9:17 pm : link
.
Because  
Sammo85 : 9/15/2019 9:17 pm : link
this organization has been in a drowning spiral going in 7 years now since the last SB. One winning season and playoff trip (which ended up being an embarrassing loss in GB).

Front office seems to not be in synch with what they want to do with talent on the field and how to beat other teams.

The coaching has been horrendous as even at the end when Coughlin was here there were problems with his discipline (ie Beckham) and getting some consistency in all three phases.

Ownership has shown itself to be clueless and ranging from meddling when it’s inappropriate (QB) to showing up too little too late (McAdoo, Beckham) when some adults in the room where needed.

Right now I don’t see much hope even for next year. They’d need an incredible draft and FA infusion and for Jones to be somewhat dynamic.
It's too early to judge the kids on defense  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:17 pm : link
It's been 2 weeks. Can we give them a full season and an off-season before we declare them busts.
RE: Baby steps  
TyreeHelmet : 9/15/2019 9:19 pm : link
In comment 14578762 Canton said:
Quote:
The defense looked better than last week. They may not be improving by leaps and bounds..but their's been improvement.

We also don't have Shep and Tate and Ziegs has a bum shoulder.

As long as the defense progresses throughout the season, we'll be fine.


Pass that over here because you’re smoking some good stuff....
We  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 9:20 pm : link
were told that Eli would be a lot better with improvements to the offense, even without OBJ. The offense did play better at the end of last year, but Eli can't move. No one expected the defense to be this bad, especially in the secondary.
I expected 4-12  
larryflower37 : 9/15/2019 9:21 pm : link
But it is still extremely painful and frustrating to watch it.
It's been too many season of losing and I have zero confidence management but I still watch every game with hope I am wrong.
the defense did not look better than last week  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:21 pm : link
Buffalo called off the dogs in the 1st half! Those kneels at the end of the half were them saying game is over lets get out of here.

Then the second the Giants made it kinda close they went RIGHT down the field and scored a TD.

The defense did not get better as the game went on and did not get better from last week.
ACID you believed Eli would be better?  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:22 pm : link
I didn't. He's been cooked for years and is now a year older.
Defense  
TyreeHelmet : 9/15/2019 9:26 pm : link
I like Allen as a qb prospect but buffalo does not have a good offense and doesn’t have one standout offensive player. And the Giants couldn’t stop them on all levels. How could you think this defense improved?
I  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 9:26 pm : link
expected more scrappiness, less crappiness.
2012 - 2019...  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:29 pm : link

...ain't as bad as 1964 - 1980.

But the smell of rot is about the same.
Eric I agree with that 100%  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:29 pm : link
I just don't know if this is a lack of effort or just bad coaching / lack of talent. I mean they jumped out to leads in each game. I don't know if they came out flat. I just don't think they're any good and having bad to mediocre coaches and that level of talent leads to this type of product.
We are all upset because we care. You think it's easy to plan your  
Jim in Hoboken : 9/15/2019 9:30 pm : link
Sunday around a football game, casting your family aside for that time, and only to witness this abomination?

We are so used to losing at this point that even though we are bottom-3 bad we are still arguing among ourselves which aspect of the team is the least incompetent.

Sure, some are rash fans who react irrationally to everything, but we've lousy for 6 out of 7 years and I think by now it's those who still toe the company line that need to snap out of it. As much as we ridicule the Dolphins, is it a foregone conclusion that we will turn things around first? Hell no.
Always nice to hear from DGs agent  
gmenatlarge : 9/15/2019 9:30 pm : link
But I think most of us expected a somewhat competent team, not the totally inept shitshow we saw the last two weeks.
I will say this though about Baker  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:31 pm : link
He wasn't getting off any blocks down the field. I didn't see a lot of fight out of him. And that is troubling to me.
RE: Defense  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2019 9:31 pm : link
In comment 14578797 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I like Allen as a qb prospect but buffalo does not have a good offense and doesn’t have one standout offensive player. And the Giants couldn’t stop them on all levels. How could you think this defense improved?


They have a solid WRs and RBs. Their line is the issue, and the scary thing is half the pressure came from coverage. Baker had a God awful game, but I think the coverage looks much worse than it is because of the communication breakdowns.
RE: I will say this though about Baker  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/15/2019 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14578806 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
He wasn't getting off any blocks down the field. I didn't see a lot of fight out of him. And that is troubling to me.


Uh just flashed backed to Peppers getting absolutely manhandled on that td run.
I'm not defending DG or the team at all  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:33 pm : link
I've been very critical of DG. I just see all these posts about how the sky is falling and I don't get it. I expected this. I'm just looking for some silver linings in the season like the kids getting better and Jones playing and hopefully playing well
RE: Did you see the predictions  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 9:33 pm : link
In comment 14578755 MyNameIsMyName said:
Quote:
From this board? Most expected a good year for some reason.


Yep a lot of poster were making threads about their good feeling about this team, the culture, and the foundation DG set. Some were even doing side by side comparison of last years defense to this year and showing that we improved.
RE: I  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14578798 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
expected more scrappiness, less crappiness.


Yes. I thought there would be miscommunications in the secondary that led to blown coverages, but this is ridiculous. They also aren't using Baker correctly. He needs to play straight man right now, or be benched if he's still nursing the injury to his knee.
RE: Eric I agree with that 100%  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14578801 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
I just don't know if this is a lack of effort or just bad coaching / lack of talent. I mean they jumped out to leads in each game. I don't know if they came out flat. I just don't think they're any good and having bad to mediocre coaches and that level of talent leads to this type of product.

Lack of effort and bad coaching. When your team is the laughing stock of the NFL, just about everything is bad. Real bad!
RE: I  
bradshaw44 : 9/15/2019 9:35 pm : link
In comment 14578798 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
expected more scrappiness, less crappiness.


Great line. Sums it up nicely. We all know the team is in transition. We want the players that are here to show that they believe in the plan. And if they don’t then that speak volumes about the coach.
RE: I'm not defending DG or the team at all  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:37 pm : link
In comment 14578818 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
I've been very critical of DG. I just see all these posts about how the sky is falling and I don't get it. I expected this. I'm just looking for some silver linings in the season like the kids getting better and Jones playing and hopefully playing well

Here's a silver lining: we're drafting Top 3 next year.

Want another? John Mara wakes up from his stupor and fires Pat Shurmur.
i think shurmur is getting a full year of jones  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 9:40 pm : link
before being fired.
RE: RE: Defense  
TyreeHelmet : 9/15/2019 9:43 pm : link
In comment 14578807 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14578797 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


I like Allen as a qb prospect but buffalo does not have a good offense and doesn’t have one standout offensive player. And the Giants couldn’t stop them on all levels. How could you think this defense improved?



They have a solid WRs and RBs. Their line is the issue, and the scary thing is half the pressure came from coverage. Baker had a God awful game, but I think the coverage looks much worse than it is because of the communication breakdowns.


They don’t have 1 skill player that nfl defenses fear. Their RBs/ WRs aren’t in the top 20 of the nfl. And the Giants couldn’t stop them. Scary thought for how the rest of season goes.
RE: i think shurmur is getting a full year of jones  
M.S. : 9/15/2019 9:46 pm : link
In comment 14578859 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
before being fired.

You're probably right, but we can always dream. IMO, the true re-build of this pathetic franchise begins when we get a winning Head Coach in here.
Who do you want to replace Shurmur with?  
Optimus-NY : 9/15/2019 9:51 pm : link
?
Because there's no plan. The team is going in every direction at once.  
Gary from The East End : Admin : 9/15/2019 9:51 pm : link
This is yet another wasted year. The team is squandering resources on a quixotic goal of competing, instead of biting the bullet and going into full rebuild mode.

Honestly, we should have been in full-on rebuild mode last year.

The defense is bad  
AcesUp : 9/15/2019 9:51 pm : link
You should have expected bad. We need to be hoping it gets better. There isn't a ton of money invested there and only recently has there been a draft focus there. We need to hope that Baker starts looking better and an alpha (or beta) pass rusher emerges. If we suck all year on defense, but the secondary improves and somebody in the front 7 emerges as a second contract guy at pass rush...then it's a win for us. And way before that you hope our rookie QB plays alright.
The Bills had no worries playing man/press on the WRs  
aka dbrny : 9/15/2019 9:53 pm : link
Which gives them lots of options in how to deal with Barkley
Then there’s the defense  
aka dbrny : 9/15/2019 9:53 pm : link
...
RE: Who do you want to replace Shurmur with?  
Nine-Tails : 9/15/2019 9:54 pm : link
In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
?


Honestly, I want an experienced HC who has had success in the past. Don’t know who that will be or if such a guy will be available, but that’s the goal. Once, we finally move to Jones, I want a guy who could maximize that two to three year window, where saquon and Jones are on their rookie deals
Some teams can turn things around quickly. One season, maybe two.  
Waldo Jeffers : 9/15/2019 9:56 pm : link
Right now it seems as if the Giants do improve it'll feel like it's happening in dog years.

There's baby steps and then there's snail-speed.

At the moment it feels as if the Giants were scheduled to play against nobody, nobody would be favored.
which coach do i want?  
GiantsFan84 : 9/15/2019 10:03 pm : link
Matt Eberflus
For those at the game  
redwhiteandbigblue : 9/15/2019 10:17 pm : link
The defense looked lost. Over and over lb's and db's were pointing and shifting and looked like they had no idea where they should be on the field. I am getting the impression the defensive scheme (whatever it may be) tis too complicated at this stage of the young season. It reminds me of the Tim Lewis days when there was basically a mutiny by players over the fact the defense was too complicated.
And the most  
redwhiteandbigblue : 9/15/2019 10:19 pm : link
Confused defensive player on the field was Peppers. Looks completely lost and out of position all too often.
RE: RE: Who do you want to replace Shurmur with?  
bradshaw44 : 9/15/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14578911 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14578896 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


?



Honestly, I want an experienced HC who has had success in the past. Don’t know who that will be or if such a guy will be available, but that’s the goal. Once, we finally move to Jones, I want a guy who could maximize that two to three year window, where saquon and Jones are on their rookie deals


Agreed. I wanted Cowher the past two times. I still want Cowher. Myself and Eric were both saying we need a strong established coach to right the ship. And we still do. And Cowher was also known for bonding with the younger players which is paramount in today’s NFL.

Giants should make a serious play for him when they inevitably fire PS.
RE: Because there's no plan. The team is going in every direction at once.  
lax counsel : 9/15/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14578897 Gary from The East End said:
Quote:
This is yet another wasted year. The team is squandering resources on a quixotic goal of competing, instead of biting the bullet and going into full rebuild mode.

Honestly, we should have been in full-on rebuild mode last year.


This is 100% spot on. The disaster started long ago, but was doubled down in the 2018 offseason. From that draft on it was nothing more than doubling down on the band aid strategy. The franchise hopes now rest with Jones. If hes mediocre or bad. Look out, it’s going be a ghost town in MetLife for years to come.

But here’s the thing, there’s no point in Jones being on the bench anymore. If served the franchise now point going forward. If the 6th pick in the draft isn’t ready to play, DG and Shurmur just look awful.
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