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Blame Gettleman not these Coaches

BigBlueDownTheShore : 9/15/2019 9:32 pm
Besides Saquon and maybe Jones (who knows how good he is, it was preseason) where exactly is the special talent on this team?

We actually had some ok talent before Gettelman arrived and itís been jetosonned for talent that isnít even better, itís far worse.

I would be the first to blame the coaches if we actually had talent, we have the all Street FA team playing at WR right now.
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Gettleman's  
AcidTest : 9/15/2019 10:38 pm : link
entire legacy rides on Jones.

He's certainly made his share of mistakes, including Stewart, Omameh, Lauletta, and probably overestimating how much Eli had left. Eli's lack of mobility was painfully obvious last year.

But his drafts have generally been good, and all GMs miss. We need more time to assess his work, especially Jones has yet to play.
BleedBlue  
Marty866b : 9/15/2019 10:39 pm : link
Outside of Barkley the jury is out on last year's is still out. This year's class? Way too early to tell but little to get excited about thus in a very small sample. The Rams, looking to win a Super Bowl last season looked for a trade partner for a former first round pick in his prime who they thought was not a good player. They found a sucker in Gettleman, who traded for him. Gettleman's free agent signings have been good? You have to be horrible not to be competitive in the NFL. The Dolphins chose not to be,what is the Giants excuse. Their are plenty of teams that are young and playing with rookie or second year quarterback who are far better then we are. BTW, how many wins you think the Giants will have this year?
RE: For those saying year 20-21  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14578972 Gmen703 said:
Quote:
Do you really trust DGs prowess on FA pickups? I mean, really feel confident on his ability to assess FA talent? I see a lot of wasted money on has-beens and JAGs.

This is a 3 year rebuild followed by another 3 year rebuild with a new HC and GM.


Yup. And with the Maras making decisions we will probably repeat that cycle multiple times.
What part of 'rebuilding' can't  
Photoguy : 9/15/2019 10:40 pm : link
you people understand?????

Two games in, and you want to blow the whole thing up again. Good lord.
RE: What part of 'rebuilding' can't  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 10:44 pm : link
In comment 14579030 Photoguy said:
Quote:
you people understand?????

Two games in, and you want to blow the whole thing up again. Good lord.


If itís a rebuild, call it a fucking rebuild. Release Eli and start Jones. Also why is Tanney on the roster?
RE: The thing with the secondary  
John In CO : 9/15/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14578894 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Is I look at last year and Betcher made BW Webb look like a halfway descent player. The guy is a lifetime JAG. I donít think he forgot how to coach.


Hmm....cant help but wonder if it was Bettcher or Lou Anarumo, our secondary coach who was hired to be the DC in Cincinnati (a coaching change that no one seems to be paying any attention to, the fact that we have a secondary coach who hasnt coached in the NFL in 10 years!) who immediately signed Webb when he was hired there.
Justlurking  
Marty866b : 9/15/2019 10:48 pm : link
How about signing and playing a 35 year old free safety or signing a 31 year old slot receiver?
Some of you didn't watch the game.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/15/2019 10:49 pm : link
You're complaining about the WRs, who by and large played far better than could be expected. They weren't the problem.
Letís not blame Tate  
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2019 10:50 pm : link
until he actually plays...
RE: RE: Can't blame Reese anymore...  
Gmen703 : 9/15/2019 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14579018 greek13 said:
Quote:
In comment 14578865 Gmen703 said:


Quote:


. Most of those picks/FAs are gone.




You canít? He left nothing here! Name a team that has turned over a roster in 2 seasons and been good? JR is the worst drafting gm in modern football history

The numbers donít lie



Bad drafts...yeah. injuries...oh yeah. But 2 'ships as GM. Doubt DG hangs around long enough to make the playoffs as GM.

The worst, huh...Ross, Smith, DeOssie, Boss, Bradshaw, Kenny Phillips, T. Thomas, Manningham, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, Linval...Hell, Odell was probably his best pick...Shep, Engram, Collins, Cruz (I know UDFA)...the worst though.

Now, if you said the worst day 2/3 drafter or the worst at drafting OL... Ok.




RE: Justlurking  
BleedBlue : 9/15/2019 10:57 pm : link
In comment 14579053 Marty866b said:
Quote:
How about signing and playing a 35 year old free safety or signing a 31 year old slot receiver?



Marty....do you think EVERYONE who is signed is young and good? This isn't fucking madden. You have 31 other teams to compete with for top free agents. Part of rebuilding is just being bad and free agents don't want to come here. It's a vicious cycle that only breaks when a draft or two help turn the tide. Ogletree still isn't a bad move. We need an ILB to run 34, he isn't a bad player and he provides leadership..something a young team needs(dg knew we would be young because of large roster turnover). Signing bethea is again just filling out a roster getting guys who bring leadership and you hope can mentor young guys. Again...name me a team that has this size of a roster turnover and is good. It doesn't happen....
RE: RE: RE: Can't blame Reese anymore...  
greek13 : 9/15/2019 11:00 pm : link
In comment 14579069 Gmen703 said:
Quote:
In comment 14579018 greek13 said:


Quote:


In comment 14578865 Gmen703 said:

Numbers donít lie
The worst look it up
Quote:


. Most of those picks/FAs are gone.




You canít? He left nothing here! Name a team that has turned over a roster in 2 seasons and been good? JR is the worst drafting gm in modern football history

The numbers donít lie




Bad drafts...yeah. injuries...oh yeah. But 2 'ships as GM. Doubt DG hangs around long enough to make the playoffs as GM.

The worst, huh...Ross, Smith, DeOssie, Boss, Bradshaw, Kenny Phillips, T. Thomas, Manningham, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, Linval...Hell, Odell was probably his best pick...Shep, Engram, Collins, Cruz (I know UDFA)...the worst though.

Now, if you said the worst day 2/3 drafter or the worst at drafting OL... Ok.



Jesus..is somebody really using this as a way  
Thunderstruck27 : 9/15/2019 11:01 pm : link
To defend Reese? He was absolute Garbage. You are crapping on rookies who have played 2 NFL games. Get a grip
Bethea is a bandaid  
AcesUp : 9/15/2019 11:02 pm : link
His age actually makes him the right play for a team like ours, he's a year to year vet and we're a year to year team right now.
RE: Jesus..is somebody really using this as a way  
Gmen703 : 9/15/2019 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14579081 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
To defend Reese? He was absolute Garbage. You are crapping on rookies who have played 2 NFL games. Get a grip


Not crapping on the rookies or defending Reese. Folks seem to be reading but not comprehending. I'm just providing context.
RE: Justlurking  
Justlurking : 9/15/2019 11:10 pm : link
In comment 14579053 Marty866b said:
Quote:
How about signing and playing a 35 year old free safety or signing a 31 year old slot receiver?


And trading for a late 20s LB with a big contract?
RE: RE: Justlurking  
giantstock : 9/15/2019 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14579072 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14579053 Marty866b said:


Quote:


How about signing and playing a 35 year old free safety or signing a 31 year old slot receiver?




Marty....do you think EVERYONE who is signed is young and good? This isn't fucking madden. You have 31 other teams to compete with for top free agents. Part of rebuilding is just being bad and free agents don't want to come here. It's a vicious cycle that only breaks when a draft or two help turn the tide. Ogletree still isn't a bad move. We need an ILB to run 34, he isn't a bad player and he provides leadership..something a young team needs(dg knew we would be young because of large roster turnover). Signing bethea is again just filling out a roster getting guys who bring leadership and you hope can mentor young guys. Again...name me a team that has this size of a roster turnover and is good. It doesn't happen....


Yes Ogeltree was a bad move. He is an awful player for what was paid. Instead of overpaying for Solder you could've gotten two OL. Instead of paying for Eli you could've gotten a cheaper QB and gotten an ILB etc.
It's been a poostorm  
Scooter185 : 9/15/2019 11:41 pm : link
Ever since TC was fired. I believe moving on from him was the right move at the time, but every hiring decision since has been bungled and made this team into the laughing stock that it is today
RE: It's been a poostorm  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/15/2019 11:41 pm : link
In comment 14579168 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
Ever since TC was fired. I believe moving on from him was the right move at the time, but every hiring decision since has been bungled and made this team into the laughing stock that it is today


There is a lot of truth to this.
RE: RE: It's been a poostorm  
jcn56 : 9/15/2019 11:48 pm : link
In comment 14579170 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14579168 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


Ever since TC was fired. I believe moving on from him was the right move at the time, but every hiring decision since has been bungled and made this team into the laughing stock that it is today



There is a lot of truth to this.


Everything, even down to minor decisions. The Josh Brown fiasco, the Eli benching. And if Daniel Jones doesn't turn out to be anything more than a mediocre QB, it gets much worse.

Since 2012, the argument can be made that about the only thing the Giants got right was drafting Barkley. And if Jones turns out to be a bust and one of the '18 class QBs turns out to be a good one (save for Mayfield), that one goes up for debate too.

Just a multi-year clusterfuck going on in East Rutherford.
It was a poo storm from  
St. Jimmy : 9/15/2019 11:48 pm : link
2012 on with TC. Gettleman will be judged by Jones. By tearing it down to the tacks,he bought himself time.
RE: Gettleman's  
santacruzom : 9/16/2019 12:21 am : link
In comment 14579026 AcidTest said:
Quote:

But his drafts have generally been good, and all GMs miss. We need more time to assess his work, especially Jones has yet to play.


I think it might be time we stop declaring that his drafts have been good. There's a good chance they won't look good 3 years from now.
.  
adamg : 9/16/2019 12:26 am : link
RE: 2 things with the Coaching  
Gregorio : 9/16/2019 12:33 am : link
In comment 14578950 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
1) Simplify the Defense so the secondary doesn't look lost
2) Shurmer should give up the playcalling. He isn't calling a winning game. Maybe left him call the first offensive drive since that has worked well then give it to Shula or some other coach.


I agree completely. I wish Shurmur would delegate play calling to the OC.
RE: Definitely deserves blame  
allstarjim : 9/16/2019 12:39 am : link
In comment 14578884 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Gettleman completely botched the Ď19 draft.


This puzzles me. The cornerstone of that draft is the expected heir apparent franchise QB to Eli, who has yet to play. I like Lawrence a lot, Baker is a TBD but many people thought he was the best CB in the draft, Ballentine was a steal, and Connelly, while I wasn't a fan of the pick at the time, is looking like a player.

Julian Love is a TBD but the pick where he got him was outstanding. It's been two games with these guys and for the most part they are being brought along slowly, which is a wise decision.

DG's draft will be deemed a massive success if Jones is a very good NFL QB that solves the position long-term. I can't and won't call this draft class 'botched' after two games where some of them haven't even played meaningful snaps yet. It's absurd to do so right now. Guys don't make the jump from college to the NFL and immediately set the world ablaze, with the rare exception of a Saquon Barkley, who is one of the best prospects ever.

He got Barkley, Hernandez, and Hill out of last year's draft, and MAYBE a useful piece in Carter. I think DG has done a pretty good job.

Look at what this team had after McAdoo and Reese left. It doesn't get much worse than what DG had to build from.
RE: RE: Justlurking  
allstarjim : 9/16/2019 12:43 am : link
In comment 14579101 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 14579053 Marty866b said:


Quote:


How about signing and playing a 35 year old free safety or signing a 31 year old slot receiver?



And trading for a late 20s LB with a big contract?


They are what they are...stopgaps. I assume you wanted them to field a team full of undrafted free agents and rookies?

Do you believe Bethea was brought in to help this team win, or to help the kids learn about preparation and professionalism in the NFL?

Bethea is a mentor signing.
I am mord upset with the cosches  
Matt M. : 9/16/2019 6:24 am : link
The roster is not great, but Gettleman is still working on it. But, what I see is a piss poor job of running an offense and a D that is consistently out of position, has guys runnjng free, takes bad pursuit angles, and almost to a man is fooled by every play action. These are things that are not roster driven.

If thse were guys diagnosing plays properly, but just getting beat, that's one thing. This group is not doing anything right on the field.
RE: RE: It's been a poostorm  
ron mexico : 9/16/2019 6:36 am : link
In comment 14579170 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14579168 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


Ever since TC was fired. I believe moving on from him was the right move at the time, but every hiring decision since has been bungled and made this team into the laughing stock that it is today



There is a lot of truth to this.


Seconded. A bunch of half measures, none of which worked.
RE: What part of 'rebuilding' can't  
gmenatlarge : 9/16/2019 6:37 am : link
In comment 14579030 Photoguy said:
Quote:
you people understand?????

Two games in, and you want to blow the whole thing up again. Good lord.


If it's a rebuild then you have to question the SB pick, you're going to build around a RB? By the time they are ready to compete he may not be the same player. Might have been better to trade down and stockpile picks.
So many experts...  
silverfox : 9/16/2019 6:40 am : link
It's like listing to cable news...when all that matters to the fools buying tickets is that the NY football Giants are, and have been a joke for years despite firing just about everybody and turning over the roster. There frankly is no reason for hope.
RE: RE: Gettleman's  
ron mexico : 9/16/2019 6:40 am : link
In comment 14579215 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 14579026 AcidTest said:


Quote:



But his drafts have generally been good, and all GMs miss. We need more time to assess his work, especially Jones has yet to play.



I think it might be time we stop declaring that his drafts have been good. There's a good chance they won't look good 3 years from now.


Yeah, we already cut one mid round pick and another mud round pick has been in IR 2 times already.

There is Barkley, Hernandez and a bunch of guys.
sorry but  
giantfan2000 : 9/16/2019 7:51 am : link
Gettleman sold this team as rebuilding but capable of winning now
that is why Eli is still on roster sucking up 11.5 % of cap space

MacAdoo was correct 3 years ago .. ELI is the problem.
Until we move on from him there is no rebuilding
RE: BleedBlue  
Gettledogman : 9/16/2019 8:17 am : link
In comment 14578999 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Sorry guy,in the NFL you can compete immediately. I didn't say win. We got blown out by the Buffalo Bills in our home opener. This is Gettleman's second year. The roster is worse now then it was two years ago. You like the job Gettleman is doing, fine, but get to watching non competitive football until he and HIS coach are long gone.



You are high or delusional if you think this roster is worse than it was 2 years ago. The problem is that your expectations are unrealistic. Now we are all unhappy with the results so far especially with the D. The secondary and LB is being addressed it will take some time but the OL is 1000% better. We are 1000% better at RB too. The DL doesn't seem to be the problem especially as we add pass rushers -that will come. Our special teams has gotten better. and we have the QB of the future on the roster but yeah its not better.
RE: RE: It's been a poostorm  
Gettledogman : 9/16/2019 8:22 am : link
In comment 14579170 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14579168 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


Ever since TC was fired. I believe moving on from him was the right move at the time, but every hiring decision since has been bungled and made this team into the laughing stock that it is today



There is a lot of truth to this.


Idiots rushed the man out of town bc hes too old for a shiny new toy with Macadoo.. learn the lesson build it right take your time -the biggest mistake was keeping Reese and letting TC go. I said it then and I will say it now. They clearly had different visions of a championship team. BTW do you see what hes building in Jax -not ready yet but getting close to being a monster team. Watch Eli go there now and win, he should. Maras know they wasted 6 yrs of the mans career with a lousy GM
RE: sorry but  
Gmen703 : 9/16/2019 8:41 am : link
In comment 14579357 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
Gettleman sold this team as rebuilding but capable of winning now
that is why Eli is still on roster sucking up 11.5 % of cap space

MacAdoo was correct 3 years ago .. ELI is the problem.
Until we move on from him there is no rebuilding


The only gripe I have about Macadoo, besides him being head coach, is that Eli threw for almost 5k yards under him as OC. Damn, maybe it was Coughlin after all.
I too disagree.  
Giant John : 9/16/2019 9:00 am : link
Coaching and player execution is the problem.
Wait what, TC  
RollBlue : 9/16/2019 9:01 am : link
is doing great things in JAX? He shows up and they contend for the SB, not sure how much his fingerprints were really on that. Last year they were close to being as bad as the Giants, drafted right behind us. This year they are 0-2 - some people need a grip on reality. TC's time has passed as a coach, period.

Until this team gets a good HC and a good QB, it's going nowhere - we may have the QB, but the coach has been elusive.
I was listening to Bill Cowher this morning  
arniefez : 9/16/2019 9:29 am : link
THIS IS NOT A VOTE FOR COWHER TO COACH THE GIANTS. His time is as over as Gettleman's.

Cowher was talking about how his teams always played with an edge. The game last night which was a great game to watch both teams played with an edge. If you want to trade the word edge for intensity go ahead.

That's 100% coaching. The Giants are the softest least inspired team I've ever seen in the NFL. On both sides of the ball. Shurmur is another disaster hire by the Mara's. He needs to be fired the day the season ends.
FA has been pretty atrocious.  
fkap : 9/16/2019 9:32 am : link
isn't that Chris Mara territory?
We're left praying that the drafts are a success, or there will be no core to the team. Even if they are, it's going to be a long rebuild relying solely on the draft. FA has to do more than just bring in more JAGs.

As said, there's plenty of blame to go around.

As Aces and others said, year one was bungled.
Gettleman has  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/16/2019 9:59 am : link
made sone questionable decisions, but for the most part the jury is still out. Everything hinges on these draft picks developing.

The coaching is abysmal.
people are still pumping up the Jaguars as some kind of...  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2019 10:05 am : link
....big Tom Coughlin success story? BAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....the Jags suck ass.
Maybe Odell was right  
ron mexico : 9/16/2019 10:09 am : link
maybe they are OK with losing

Ask any one of my teammates of who I was as a teammates and a man and a person.... yes Iím cancer to a place thatís ok wit losing because I want to win that BADDD. Ur absolutely correct !
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Gettleman has  
BigBlueinChicago : 9/16/2019 10:09 am : link
In comment 14579709 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
made sone questionable decisions, but for the most part the jury is still out. Everything hinges on these draft picks developing.

The coaching is abysmal.


Do we expect the draft picks to develop under what we are perceiving at the moment as very questionable coaching among the top coaches in the organization?
I like the Getts  
idiotsavant : 9/16/2019 10:24 am : link
It was glaringly obvious that you couldn't get the QB and also field a good D. Unless you had 20 draft picks.

We could easily draft 3 lbs high and two burner safeties with legit int skills within the first few rounds , as suggested, but one cannot do that with the pick trades.

If Jones is good that's an important piece though.

I don't know what you guys expected from ogletree, Davis and the safeties in terms of passes over the middle
But yes  
idiotsavant : 9/16/2019 10:26 am : link
Wishful thinking in free agency with regards to ilbs and safeties.
RE: I like the Getts  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2019 10:29 am : link
In comment 14579782 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
I don't know what you guys expected from ogletree, Davis and the safeties in terms of passes over the middle


What I expected? That's not the real question. The real question is, what did Gettleman expect? This is his roster now. These guys are the players he wanted.
Gettlemen?  
Carl in CT : 9/16/2019 11:59 am : link
The shit that was left by JR is the problem. Some of you need to look at the roster and cap he acquired.
RE: Gettlemen?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/16/2019 12:07 pm : link
In comment 14580087 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
The shit that was left by JR is the problem. Some of you need to look at the roster and cap he acquired.


I see we're still holding on to that one. Maybe in 3 more years people wont still blame the guy that came before.

And lol at even discussing the cap as if Gettleman doesnt seem to love dead cap space.
RE: RE: RE: rebuilds usually take more than a year and two  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/16/2019 12:30 pm : link
In comment 14578998 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
In comment 14578984 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


In comment 14578981 madgiantscow009 said:


Quote:


games.


ok.. now play the kid. we suck. manning sucks. let's move the rebuild along by starting Jones. it's time.



week 7 vs Arizona. NE will give the Giants a drubbing and then 10 days off to prepare for the Cardinals.

I'm not sure giving this coaching staff MORE time is an advantage. They sure didn't look more ready for the Cowboys with all summer to prepare than they did for the Bills with just a week. Maybe they need less time instead of more!
I just think  
idiotsavant : 9/16/2019 12:56 pm : link
What you are seeing is the fallout from picking the QB. Which may have been the wise thing long-term , but, we simply either needed to trade down then draft all D, or take one of two pass rushers broadly worthy at 6, Allen or Oliver .

So, the shock was not doing that , then secondarily, not having followed the draft, that the QB might be very good and worthy of 6.

As I said at the time, betch kept his mouth shut knowing that he would have to go with sub standard ilbs and safeties for another year.

But you stay the course and draft to fit the DC system. You don't hire then fail to follow through. It's just that we now still do need that D draft regardless.
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