Seriously....we aren't winning. I expect them to fire some coaches on the defensive side of the ball if the defense continues to play like shit. So the off-season will bring some changes to the staff. This team is just lacking talent, put Jones in and let him work so next year he has almost a full season under his belt.
What else does this team have left to prove? The team is garbage, the offense is garbage, and the only chance we have of salvaging the season is Jones. No, I doubt it will matter with our D the way it is, but it can't hurt.
All offseason, I heard this team was going to be much improved. Yea, not gonna happen. Jones time.
There are 4 reasons why jones should start going forward
1. They are wasting barkley on his rookie contract
2. You cannot accurately judge shurmur as a head coach until we see a mobile QB who can run his playbook and not a statue back there who refuses to throw the ball down the field
3. Jones is a rookie. He is going to take his lumps and struggle at times. Theres no reason not to let him play as much as he can during another lost season so hopefully in 2020 he is ready to take the next step after getting valuable experience in 2019.
4. IF for some reason, there is a new GM who takes over and falls in love with a QB coming out of the draft and jones doesnt play well ala kyler murray/josh rosen then at least you are giving yourself an opportunity to judge jones properly before making such a big decision . Him sitting on the bench while a Great QB class is coming out next year without knowing what we have would be a travesty
I will also say that eli is 8-25 in his last 32 games as a starter and the stench of losing is really big with him at this point. Even if it's not all his fault , it's still time to turn the page and start a new chapter
I believed Eli should have started the first two games this year. I never thought for a second he should have been benched in any previous season. The team owes him a massive apology for the absolute garbage he’s been surrounded by for the majority of the last decade (the OL for years and now this wide receiving core).
But, this team is going nowhere. The defense is arguably the worst in the league.
Let Jones get in there right now and get some game action under his belt. He isn’t going to get killed as the offensive line is the team’s best unit outside of specials and running back. It’s time.
RE: RE: I will defer to the posters that felt Eli Â
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
Yes.. The Giant Way. We treat our men with respect. We don't mind losing to do it.
There are 4 reasons why jones should start going forward
1. They are wasting barkley on his rookie contract
2. You cannot accurately judge shurmur as a head coach until we see a mobile QB who can run his playbook and not a statue back there who refuses to throw the ball down the field
3. Jones is a rookie. He is going to take his lumps and struggle at times. Theres no reason not to let him play as much as he can during another lost season so hopefully in 2020 he is ready to take the next step after getting valuable experience in 2019.
4. IF for some reason, there is a new GM who takes over and falls in love with a QB coming out of the draft and jones doesnt play well ala kyler murray/josh rosen then at least you are giving yourself an opportunity to judge jones properly before making such a big decision . Him sitting on the bench while a Great QB class is coming out next year without knowing what we have would be a travesty
I will also say that eli is 8-25 in his last 32 games as a starter and the stench of losing is really big with him at this point. Even if it's not all his fault , it's still time to turn the page and start a new chapter
Point 4 is the exact reason the Giants need to figure out what they have this year. I suppose there is always Trevor in 2021, but would be good to have a strong feeling about Jones heading into the offseason.
RE: RE: I will defer to the posters that felt Eli Â
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
Yes.. The Giant Way. We treat our men with respect. We don't mind losing to do it.
He's been overpaid for the last six years. I would sit him effective this upcoming week. Jones has a better arm and his mobility will extend plays and give receivers a chance to get open. I was initially unsure whether Jones would be able to diagnose NFL defenses (and I'm still not sure), but I am no longer reluctant to run that risk. Eli was never elite IMO, despite is two SP MVP awards and his longevity records. If Jones is not able to win games, no big deal. The Giants record will be low enough this year such that they'll be in a position to draft a decent prospect in 2020.
the OL is pretty decent. Yet Eli can't or won't either hang in there to deliver the ball downfield with anticipation, or buy sufficient time with his feet, or, in fact do anything truly well.
While the loses aren't Eli's fault given the state of the defense, he simply doesn't make plays anymore, that aren't handed to him on a platter.
Continue playing Eli, and he will end up with a losing record overall, and the team will be failing to develop it's next field general and leader.
Eli at this point is exactly what everyone outside the Giants organization thinks he is: a bottom third or even quartile QB among the league's starting 32. He's Ryan Fitzpatrick with two historical rings. He is an NFL backup quality QB. G-d help me, but Dak Prescott is a better QB than Eli at this point in time, and it's not close.
RE: RE: RE: I will defer to the posters that felt Eli Â
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
So 0-7 is a better way to go out Jim?
I think Jones should only play when they think he has an absolute command of this offense, and when he has a reasonable chance to be able to execute it with the players around him, and not before the Giants are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
Like it or not, Eli is a franchise icon that has represented the franchise with the utmost class and dignity a player possibly could. He put two Lombardi's in the trophy case and this is his final season. Jones should get a chance to play this year. But hell yes the organization owes it to Eli to not pull him before that point. And just because Jones starts doesn't mean that this team will win. They aren't ready to win right now, and you just might set up your young QB for failure by putting him in too soon.
DG talked about the KC model and it's not a terrible plan. I would prefer Jones makes some starts this year but I also think that it's premature right now. Eli's career is coming to an end, but more important than the outcome of this season is making absolutely certain that when the transition is made, that it is made with all factors considered, so if that means 0-7 than so be it.
The world can wait 10 to 14 more games for Jones. Honestly 7 games would be the fast track.
Who benefits by starting Jones now? Impatient fans? It probably doesn't benefit Jones, it doesn't benefit the long-term interests of the team, and it would be a disservice to Eli. I'm not a Manning homer but I also know this organization will do this the right way, not setting Jones up for failure.
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
So 0-7 is a better way to go out Jim?
I think Jones should only play when they think he has an absolute command of this offense, and when he has a reasonable chance to be able to execute it with the players around him, and not before the Giants are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
Like it or not, Eli is a franchise icon that has represented the franchise with the utmost class and dignity a player possibly could. He put two Lombardi's in the trophy case and this is his final season. Jones should get a chance to play this year. But hell yes the organization owes it to Eli to not pull him before that point. And just because Jones starts doesn't mean that this team will win. They aren't ready to win right now, and you just might set up your young QB for failure by putting him in too soon.
DG talked about the KC model and it's not a terrible plan. I would prefer Jones makes some starts this year but I also think that it's premature right now. Eli's career is coming to an end, but more important than the outcome of this season is making absolutely certain that when the transition is made, that it is made with all factors considered, so if that means 0-7 than so be it.
The world can wait 10 to 14 more games for Jones. Honestly 7 games would be the fast track.
Who benefits by starting Jones now? Impatient fans? It probably doesn't benefit Jones, it doesn't benefit the long-term interests of the team, and it would be a disservice to Eli. I'm not a Manning homer but I also know this organization will do this the right way, not setting Jones up for failure.
Disservice to Eli, cmon give me a break. Just because he’s done a lot we should continue to trot him out there, lol. And who’s to say that Jones isn’t ready? All offseason Shula and Shurmur have been raving about him and having ready to start by week one, and he probably is since Shurmur hasn’t said anything to dismiss that. The line is adequate and won’t kill him. So many rookie qbs have come in and played and learned from love action. Hell a guy like Gardner Minshew is playing well and he was sixth rd pick.
I love Eli, and I was really pulling to see him improve this year. I bought into the stories about his new workout and preparation regime, and expected to see some life in him. But I'm not seeing it.
Furthermore, I don't want to throw Jones out to the wolves. If he is going to play against the Vikings or the Patriots, then bring him in before then. And you really only have two weeks to do that.
However, as I don't expect to see the switch before Vikings or Patriots, then I look to Oct. 20 against Arizona. We should be 0-6. No reason that would make sense to still be playing Eli. Especially against Murray.
At this point, the ownership (and front office, if their jobs are safe) need every opportunity available to look at this head coach with this new QB. To delay that process even another second doesn't help anyone. Pat Shurmur might not be the right coach for this team in the near future and to waste valuable time with Eli continuing to start for a non-competitive team makes no sense.
No one with a brain should expect Daniel Jones to come in and rescue everyone. But they're also not throwing him to the wolves. He has at least a serviceable o-line in front of him (unlike Josh Rosen last year) and enough skill position talent around him to make up a functioning NFL offense.
The Giants need to start preparing for their future now. Unfortunately, Eli isn't a part of that.
There’s no pressure on the current regime to win. However, once DJ becomes the starter, the clock starts ticking for them.
I think it’s in their best interest to start DJ when he’s as prepared as possible, and late enough in the season that people don’t start to question why we’re still losing (bad playcalling, bad drafting, etc).
I believed Eli should have started the first two games this year. I never thought for a second he should have been benched in any previous season. The team owes him a massive apology for the absolute garbage he’s been surrounded by for the majority of the last decade (the OL for years and now this wide receiving core).
But, this team is going nowhere. The defense is arguably the worst in the league.
Let Jones get in there right now and get some game action under his belt. He isn’t going to get killed as the offensive line is the team’s best unit outside of specials and running back. It’s time.
Apologies? GTFO Eli should apologize to the Giants for stealing money the last 6 years
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
OMG
He was being sarcastic.
As to the question, Eli SHOULD get 0 more games. But I think he WILL get just one more start. Here's why...
If the Giants lose big to the Bucs Mara will want to forego the embarassment of having the team booed off the field during the home game against the 'Skins. If the Giants play Jones I think the fans will look at it as a positive, even if Jones fails, and they'll be less likely to boo.
Remember, Mara fired McAdoo in season (something he had previously said that he wouldn't do) because he feared that there would be a big revolt at the next home game. I think the potential of fan revolt will drive this decision.
the OL is pretty decent. Yet Eli can't or won't either hang in there to deliver the ball downfield with anticipation, or buy sufficient time with his feet, or, in fact do anything truly well.
While the loses aren't Eli's fault given the state of the defense, he simply doesn't make plays anymore, that aren't handed to him on a platter.
Continue playing Eli, and he will end up with a losing record overall, and the team will be failing to develop it's next field general and leader.
Eli at this point is exactly what everyone outside the Giants organization thinks he is: a bottom third or even quartile QB among the league's starting 32. He's Ryan Fitzpatrick with two historical rings. He is an NFL backup quality QB. G-d help me, but Dak Prescott is a better QB than Eli at this point in time, and it's not close.
Eli has been bottom third for 3+ years now no one wanted to admit it.
There is no purpose served any longer. This team isn't competing on a weekly basis and certa8nly won't be in the playoff hunt. Tate's suspension for 2 more games won't help.
we've seen enough. the team is doing him a disservice by putting him in a position where he'll be booed off the field. who is this better than sitting down now?
other icons in all sports have ended their careers either with less ceremony or on other teams. Joe Montana? Willie Mays? Brett Favre? Johnny Unitas?
My only reservation about inserting Jones now... Â
...is that he seems to need a bit more coaching up on protecting himself. The fumbles are a concern, but what scares me more is the way he tries to recover them, and the hits he takes in the process.I don’t want to lose our QB of the future to a loose ball in a blowout loss in a lost season, or because he tries to extend a blown play with his legs. Maybe those lessons can only be learned in games, or maybe it’s QB-specific. Russell Wilson seemed to get it from Day One. Carson Wentz still doesn’t. Robert Griffin never did.
He will most likely get hurt at some point, Eli can come back in then.
Of course I do not want to see this. But, I am near certain that not too long after Jones is brought in amd hailed as the savior, he will get lit up scrambling and Eli will be back.You can just envision it.
Jones will look to run and he isn't built like Josh Allen, who is a tank.
But, since this season should now be about Jones and his development as the pipe dream of an Eli run to the playoffs is over, the key is a 'soft' landing spot for Jones.
Week 5 is when Tate comes back, so start the clock then... week 6 is @ NE and a short week.... no
Week 7 vs Arizona... long week, and we follow that up with the Lions
If you wait till after the bye - you get Bears/Pack/Eagles... not the easiest start
We'll be lucky to wind up matching last year's 5-11 record. Say Jones was played. How would replacing Eli now improve anything given the inadequacies of the D as a whole and lack of WR/TE talent? To what end? All in the hope of getting a worse draft position in the end? And what has that to do with the needed overhaul of scouting, player evaluation, and coaching top to bottom? Zip. Bad team badly put together and badly run.
We'll be lucky to wind up matching last year's 5-11 record. Say Jones was played. How would replacing Eli now improve anything given the inadequacies of the D as a whole and lack of WR/TE talent? To what end? All in the hope of getting a worse draft position in the end? And what has that to do with the needed overhaul of scouting, player evaluation, and coaching top to bottom? Zip. Bad team badly put together and badly run.
The point is that the team is going nowhere and we need to see whether or not Jones can play. Agree that this team has no talent and that the general manager has been a complete disaster.
Won't happen tho
All offseason, I heard this team was going to be much improved. Yea, not gonna happen. Jones time.
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
1. They are wasting barkley on his rookie contract
2. You cannot accurately judge shurmur as a head coach until we see a mobile QB who can run his playbook and not a statue back there who refuses to throw the ball down the field
3. Jones is a rookie. He is going to take his lumps and struggle at times. Theres no reason not to let him play as much as he can during another lost season so hopefully in 2020 he is ready to take the next step after getting valuable experience in 2019.
4. IF for some reason, there is a new GM who takes over and falls in love with a QB coming out of the draft and jones doesnt play well ala kyler murray/josh rosen then at least you are giving yourself an opportunity to judge jones properly before making such a big decision . Him sitting on the bench while a Great QB class is coming out next year without knowing what we have would be a travesty
I will also say that eli is 8-25 in his last 32 games as a starter and the stench of losing is really big with him at this point. Even if it's not all his fault , it's still time to turn the page and start a new chapter
But, this team is going nowhere. The defense is arguably the worst in the league.
Let Jones get in there right now and get some game action under his belt. He isn’t going to get killed as the offensive line is the team’s best unit outside of specials and running back. It’s time.
Quote:
was going to have a huge year...
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
Then they risk having Eli ending his career with the fans booing him off the field
Mara can spin things all he wants. But he can’t control
Fan reaction and they will boo— more out of frustration but still it will not be pretty
Quote:
In comment 14579138 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
was going to have a huge year...
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
Then they risk having Eli ending his career with the fans booing him off the field
Mara can spin things all he wants. But he can’t control
Fan reaction and they will boo— more out of frustration but still it will not be pretty
precisely
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
Yes.. The Giant Way. We treat our men with respect. We don't mind losing to do it.
1. They are wasting barkley on his rookie contract
2. You cannot accurately judge shurmur as a head coach until we see a mobile QB who can run his playbook and not a statue back there who refuses to throw the ball down the field
3. Jones is a rookie. He is going to take his lumps and struggle at times. Theres no reason not to let him play as much as he can during another lost season so hopefully in 2020 he is ready to take the next step after getting valuable experience in 2019.
4. IF for some reason, there is a new GM who takes over and falls in love with a QB coming out of the draft and jones doesnt play well ala kyler murray/josh rosen then at least you are giving yourself an opportunity to judge jones properly before making such a big decision . Him sitting on the bench while a Great QB class is coming out next year without knowing what we have would be a travesty
I will also say that eli is 8-25 in his last 32 games as a starter and the stench of losing is really big with him at this point. Even if it's not all his fault , it's still time to turn the page and start a new chapter
Point 4 is the exact reason the Giants need to figure out what they have this year. I suppose there is always Trevor in 2021, but would be good to have a strong feeling about Jones heading into the offseason.
Quote:
was going to have a huge year...
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
So 0-7 is a better way to go out Jim?
Quote:
as many Eli wants.
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
Yes.. The Giant Way. We treat our men with respect. We don't mind losing to do it.
Lmao, your posts are awesome
Quote:
was going to have a huge year...
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
Absolute disgrace that we're prioritizing Eli's feelings over what's best for this franchise.
While the loses aren't Eli's fault given the state of the defense, he simply doesn't make plays anymore, that aren't handed to him on a platter.
Continue playing Eli, and he will end up with a losing record overall, and the team will be failing to develop it's next field general and leader.
Eli at this point is exactly what everyone outside the Giants organization thinks he is: a bottom third or even quartile QB among the league's starting 32. He's Ryan Fitzpatrick with two historical rings. He is an NFL backup quality QB. G-d help me, but Dak Prescott is a better QB than Eli at this point in time, and it's not close.
Quote:
In comment 14579138 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
was going to have a huge year...
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
So 0-7 is a better way to go out Jim?
I think Jones should only play when they think he has an absolute command of this offense, and when he has a reasonable chance to be able to execute it with the players around him, and not before the Giants are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
Like it or not, Eli is a franchise icon that has represented the franchise with the utmost class and dignity a player possibly could. He put two Lombardi's in the trophy case and this is his final season. Jones should get a chance to play this year. But hell yes the organization owes it to Eli to not pull him before that point. And just because Jones starts doesn't mean that this team will win. They aren't ready to win right now, and you just might set up your young QB for failure by putting him in too soon.
DG talked about the KC model and it's not a terrible plan. I would prefer Jones makes some starts this year but I also think that it's premature right now. Eli's career is coming to an end, but more important than the outcome of this season is making absolutely certain that when the transition is made, that it is made with all factors considered, so if that means 0-7 than so be it.
The world can wait 10 to 14 more games for Jones. Honestly 7 games would be the fast track.
Who benefits by starting Jones now? Impatient fans? It probably doesn't benefit Jones, it doesn't benefit the long-term interests of the team, and it would be a disservice to Eli. I'm not a Manning homer but I also know this organization will do this the right way, not setting Jones up for failure.
Quote:
In comment 14579146 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14579138 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
was going to have a huge year...
You know it won't happen before week 7 at the very earliest, and I don't think they will allow Eli to end his Giants career like that.
So 0-7 is a better way to go out Jim?
I think Jones should only play when they think he has an absolute command of this offense, and when he has a reasonable chance to be able to execute it with the players around him, and not before the Giants are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
Like it or not, Eli is a franchise icon that has represented the franchise with the utmost class and dignity a player possibly could. He put two Lombardi's in the trophy case and this is his final season. Jones should get a chance to play this year. But hell yes the organization owes it to Eli to not pull him before that point. And just because Jones starts doesn't mean that this team will win. They aren't ready to win right now, and you just might set up your young QB for failure by putting him in too soon.
DG talked about the KC model and it's not a terrible plan. I would prefer Jones makes some starts this year but I also think that it's premature right now. Eli's career is coming to an end, but more important than the outcome of this season is making absolutely certain that when the transition is made, that it is made with all factors considered, so if that means 0-7 than so be it.
The world can wait 10 to 14 more games for Jones. Honestly 7 games would be the fast track.
Who benefits by starting Jones now? Impatient fans? It probably doesn't benefit Jones, it doesn't benefit the long-term interests of the team, and it would be a disservice to Eli. I'm not a Manning homer but I also know this organization will do this the right way, not setting Jones up for failure.
Disservice to Eli, cmon give me a break. Just because he’s done a lot we should continue to trot him out there, lol. And who’s to say that Jones isn’t ready? All offseason Shula and Shurmur have been raving about him and having ready to start by week one, and he probably is since Shurmur hasn’t said anything to dismiss that. The line is adequate and won’t kill him. So many rookie qbs have come in and played and learned from love action. Hell a guy like Gardner Minshew is playing well and he was sixth rd pick.
Furthermore, I don't want to throw Jones out to the wolves. If he is going to play against the Vikings or the Patriots, then bring him in before then. And you really only have two weeks to do that.
However, as I don't expect to see the switch before Vikings or Patriots, then I look to Oct. 20 against Arizona. We should be 0-6. No reason that would make sense to still be playing Eli. Especially against Murray.
No one with a brain should expect Daniel Jones to come in and rescue everyone. But they're also not throwing him to the wolves. He has at least a serviceable o-line in front of him (unlike Josh Rosen last year) and enough skill position talent around him to make up a functioning NFL offense.
The Giants need to start preparing for their future now. Unfortunately, Eli isn't a part of that.
I think it’s in their best interest to start DJ when he’s as prepared as possible, and late enough in the season that people don’t start to question why we’re still losing (bad playcalling, bad drafting, etc).
But, this team is going nowhere. The defense is arguably the worst in the league.
Let Jones get in there right now and get some game action under his belt. He isn’t going to get killed as the offensive line is the team’s best unit outside of specials and running back. It’s time.
Apologies? GTFO Eli should apologize to the Giants for stealing money the last 6 years
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
OMG
Quote:
as many Eli wants.
I know we all want to win here or at least get the franchise headed in the right direction, but you guys are not giving proper weight to Eli's feelings here.
Luckily John Mara is.
OMG
He was being sarcastic.
As to the question, Eli SHOULD get 0 more games. But I think he WILL get just one more start. Here's why...
If the Giants lose big to the Bucs Mara will want to forego the embarassment of having the team booed off the field during the home game against the 'Skins. If the Giants play Jones I think the fans will look at it as a positive, even if Jones fails, and they'll be less likely to boo.
Remember, Mara fired McAdoo in season (something he had previously said that he wouldn't do) because he feared that there would be a big revolt at the next home game. I think the potential of fan revolt will drive this decision.
Without impact receivers, QB mobility has much more value.
While the loses aren't Eli's fault given the state of the defense, he simply doesn't make plays anymore, that aren't handed to him on a platter.
Continue playing Eli, and he will end up with a losing record overall, and the team will be failing to develop it's next field general and leader.
Eli at this point is exactly what everyone outside the Giants organization thinks he is: a bottom third or even quartile QB among the league's starting 32. He's Ryan Fitzpatrick with two historical rings. He is an NFL backup quality QB. G-d help me, but Dak Prescott is a better QB than Eli at this point in time, and it's not close.
Eli has been bottom third for 3+ years now no one wanted to admit it.
other icons in all sports have ended their careers either with less ceremony or on other teams. Joe Montana? Willie Mays? Brett Favre? Johnny Unitas?
Link - ( New Window )
Or simply split the halves.
Of course I do not want to see this. But, I am near certain that not too long after Jones is brought in amd hailed as the savior, he will get lit up scrambling and Eli will be back.You can just envision it.
Jones will look to run and he isn't built like Josh Allen, who is a tank.
Week 5 is when Tate comes back, so start the clock then... week 6 is @ NE and a short week.... no
Week 7 vs Arizona... long week, and we follow that up with the Lions
If you wait till after the bye - you get Bears/Pack/Eagles... not the easiest start
I'll put my $$ on week 7.
The point is that the team is going nowhere and we need to see whether or not Jones can play. Agree that this team has no talent and that the general manager has been a complete disaster.