Tied for 16th. Oh and for insult averaging 7.8 yards a carry.
The identity of this team should run through Barkley but this team has no identity. With the limits they have at WR this makes this even more disturbing.
He refuses to stick with the run. The Giants had 5 rushes on first td drive and then had 4 carries the next 3 (maybe even 4) drives...dumbfounding. He randomly goes into shotgun after running the ball 6 consecutive times with success and throws out of it...how about PA from under center? Something Eli has thrived at.
Barkley has only carried the ball 20 or more times in a game 4 times. The Giants are 3-1 in those games with the one loss coming to Indy and they almost pulled that out.
Also under Shurmur when Eli attempts 35+ pass attempts
The Giants are 1-12 with the one win coming with Eli right at 35 attempts and Barkley carrying it 24 times in that game. I know they have been behind in games but if the Giants defense is that bad keep the other teams offense off the field by controlling the clock.
As great an O coach as AR's credited for, I used to love that he'd run BWestbrook seemingly as little as possible. Or use him to great success between the 20s & goalines, then forget he's on the team near the endzone
Much more annoying this time tho
What might be even worse is the predictability of his run calls.
The Giants are 1-12 with the one win coming with Eli right at 35 attempts and Barkley carrying it 24 times in that game. I know they have been behind in games but if the Giants defense is that bad keep the other teams offense off the field by controlling the clock.
I just think he is clueless!
He us not clueless he us letting the team live or die on Eli. When Mara fires him he can just say 'I could have won with Jones but my hands were tied and I was forced to start Manning' when he has his next job interview.
If he wins with Eli at the helm that's great. If he loses with Saquon at the helm it is his last coaching job. I don't blame him at all.
Hard to get him attempts when the defense is a sieve
Game was close at 7-7 and even when they were down 14-7. Maybe getting SB more touches would've kept the D off the field and the game closer?
PS has no clue how to use Barkley IMO. Can he get him involved in the passing game other than out of the backfield? Can he move him around to try and create a mismatch?
The only thing Shurmur is impressing me with is his first drives of games but he has all week to come up with those. He can't adjust when other teams do and looks like he can't think on his feet. The game is about in game adjustments and he sucks at it.
may I remind, many of you all too. They have coming out running each game and Barkley is second in the league in rushing.
They are also trying to win the game so when the defense doesnt hold up and Giants fall behind, they reasonably pass more and try to catch up. It doesnt look good because we have a QB who has seen better days and a rag tag receiving corps.
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches. It's not like they were in command of the game, either week.
What's the excuse for when the game was 7-7, 14-7 or even down 21-7? The game wasn't over or out of reach at any of those points IMO.
I said it in another thread and I know we're not the Eagles talent wise but I watched them last week vs the Skins. When they were down 17-0 they said screw this and went to their strength and ran it right down the Skins throat on a nice drive to score a TD to get some control back and they righted the ship.
IMO, there was still plenty of time left and no reason for Shurmur to go pass happy shotgun and away from what is actually our strength. Head scratcher for me especially considering we were running our #'s 4-6 WR's out there.
Maybe, just maybe had he stuck with the run it would've helped by keeping the D off the field and they wouldn't have given up three easy TD drives in the 1st half including one of 98 yds!
We started both games with a 7 point lead, and got away from Barkley on the very next drive both games. This is the CAUSE of us playing catch up. Our terrible playcalling and strategizing causes us to get behind, and then test it is too late.
and it dates back to the previous regime as well, is how 3rd and 3 is more often than not a passing down on this team. There were situations yesterday where the Giants had 3rd and 5 or less, and Buffalo had 3 man fronts with LB's 5 yards off the LOS. Giants were in a shotgun on many of these instances, and a draw play to Barkley likely would have been first downs. There seems to be an effort being made to not run Saquon to the ground, but when game situations call for him, he should be used. Not to mention, the way the O line has blocked for the run this year, Gallman can be effective in these third and short situations as well, if the goal is to limit Saquon's touches.
Someone on BBI is advocating the shotgun draw that everyone so hated 5 year ago?
Rashad Jennings or Andre Brown running behind an offensive line featuring the likes of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse, Ereck Flowers, J.D. Walton, Will Beatty and end of career David Diehl is only slightly different from one of the best RB's we've ever seen behind an offensive line that has been very effective in the running game. Not to mention the fact that this is a team featuring Benny Fowler and Cody Core at WR. I don't love the shotgun draw, and prefer to see the Giants run out of a singleback set, but 3rd downs are the most important plays of these games, and I believe in these situations, the best player on the team should get the ball more often than not.
eh, I have my concerns about how effective the run blocking has been
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
RE: RE: RE: When you are playing catch up football
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
21 total touches but series 2-6 he had 1 touch on each of those possessions. He needs to touch the ball more than once a possession
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that there are occasional games where he touches the ball over 30 times. When you are missing your top 2 WR's and coming off a game where he only had 15 touches, this should have been one of those situations. Especially when his first 5 carries averaged 10 yards a carry.
Maybe if he had more touches in series 2-6 they would've been in more manageable 3rd downs and able to convert them. Instead they go shotgun and rely on Eli going to their #'s 4-6 WR's.
Which scenario makes more sense, using your best player more or guys who wouldn't see the field except for injuries and a suspension?
After that first drive, Buffalo clearly made adjustments moving their safeties and LBs up and made sure that an extra helmet or two were focused sharply on stuffing the run. They were daring the Giants to throw the ball past them...it never came.
This is what good defenses do. Some bad ones too...
There is only so much he can do. The Bills clamped down on the run after the first series and our run efficiency took a dip. Once our run efficiency dipped, we were put in 3rd and long situations which our QB and the rest of the shitty offense could not convert. Punting really fucks with your offensive play volume.
get pissed at the coaches for punting too much? I mean if we're getting all up in arms about the symptoms of losing football and we should start there. I haven't done an analysis but there's gotta be a strong correlation between punting attempts and losses.
After that first drive, Buffalo clearly made adjustments moving their safeties and LBs up and made sure that an extra helmet or two were focused sharply on stuffing the run. They were daring the Giants to throw the ball past them...it never came.
This is what good defenses do. Some bad ones too...
So we can't make adjustments off that? How about staying under center and giving the look we're going to try and run it down their throats but go play action instead? Soften them up and keep pounding SB.
How about going with a big heavy package a couple of plays and running it at them? SB gets a little crease and they'd pay for the 8 man box. I'd much rather try things like that with SB than rely on our 4-6 best WR's.
All fair suggestions. And we have 14 more games to try that
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
If there's 2 yards or less on late downs, give it to Barkley. Basically 100% of the timme. That's where the coaches are failing him and the team. He's your best chance to convert and get more plays. The passing on 3rd and short nonsense has to stop.
This. One short run, a false start and in comes Gallman and the passing game. PS loves to throw the ball and doesnt appear to have the patience necessary to coach a top flight RB.
RE: All fair suggestions. And we have 14 more games to try that
But again, this is the Offense they built around a star RB, an immobile aged QB and average other pieces.
What was unknown?
Agreed about how the O is built.
I think what was unknown for me and probably what I should've known and am most frustrated about is our coach not making adjustments and finding creative ways to use our best player.
He's fine when it takes a week to design a first drive but after that? I'm not impressed at all with his in game thinking on his feet.
I know we're young and lacking talent but I hoped this staff would find ways to work to the strengths of the talent we do have. I didn't know they would take the make players fit their scheme approach and not the smarter, opposite approach of designing schemes that fit their players strengths.
I just think he is clueless!
As great an O coach as AR's credited for, I used to love that he'd run BWestbrook seemingly as little as possible. Or use him to great success between the 20s & goalines, then forget he's on the team near the endzone
Much more annoying this time tho
Coughlin and Gillbride loved running on 2nd and long. Shurmur not so much, so far, and with Barley you can...
I just think he is clueless!
He us not clueless he us letting the team live or die on Eli. When Mara fires him he can just say 'I could have won with Jones but my hands were tied and I was forced to start Manning' when he has his next job interview.
If he wins with Eli at the helm that's great. If he loses with Saquon at the helm it is his last coaching job. I don't blame him at all.
Game was close at 7-7 and even when they were down 14-7. Maybe getting SB more touches would've kept the D off the field and the game closer?
PS has no clue how to use Barkley IMO. Can he get him involved in the passing game other than out of the backfield? Can he move him around to try and create a mismatch?
The only thing Shurmur is impressing me with is his first drives of games but he has all week to come up with those. He can't adjust when other teams do and looks like he can't think on his feet. The game is about in game adjustments and he sucks at it.
21-7 at the half is not cause for a team to abandon the run.
They are also trying to win the game so when the defense doesnt hold up and Giants fall behind, they reasonably pass more and try to catch up. It doesnt look good because we have a QB who has seen better days and a rag tag receiving corps.
This is what that strategy looks like.
Second thoughts?
get less touches. It's not like they were in command of the game, either week.
⬆️This!!!
get less touches. It's not like they were in command of the game, either week.
What's the excuse for when the game was 7-7, 14-7 or even down 21-7? The game wasn't over or out of reach at any of those points IMO.
I said it in another thread and I know we're not the Eagles talent wise but I watched them last week vs the Skins. When they were down 17-0 they said screw this and went to their strength and ran it right down the Skins throat on a nice drive to score a TD to get some control back and they righted the ship.
IMO, there was still plenty of time left and no reason for Shurmur to go pass happy shotgun and away from what is actually our strength. Head scratcher for me especially considering we were running our #'s 4-6 WR's out there.
Maybe, just maybe had he stuck with the run it would've helped by keeping the D off the field and they wouldn't have given up three easy TD drives in the 1st half including one of 98 yds!
I also think shurmur is limited with eli at qb because he likes to move the qb around and he just cant with eli...
bootlegs with jones would of been wide open all day yesterday
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
what on earth
Rashad Jennings or Andre Brown running behind an offensive line featuring the likes of John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse, Ereck Flowers, J.D. Walton, Will Beatty and end of career David Diehl is only slightly different from one of the best RB's we've ever seen behind an offensive line that has been very effective in the running game. Not to mention the fact that this is a team featuring Benny Fowler and Cody Core at WR. I don't love the shotgun draw, and prefer to see the Giants run out of a singleback set, but 3rd downs are the most important plays of these games, and I believe in these situations, the best player on the team should get the ball more often than not.
Quote:
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
Quote:
In comment 14579383 Carson53 said:
Quote:
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
21 total touches but series 2-6 he had 1 touch on each of those possessions. He needs to touch the ball more than once a possession
Quote:
In comment 14579383 Carson53 said:
Quote:
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest that there are occasional games where he touches the ball over 30 times. When you are missing your top 2 WR's and coming off a game where he only had 15 touches, this should have been one of those situations. Especially when his first 5 carries averaged 10 yards a carry.
Maybe if he had more touches in series 2-6 they would've been in more manageable 3rd downs and able to convert them. Instead they go shotgun and rely on Eli going to their #'s 4-6 WR's.
Which scenario makes more sense, using your best player more or guys who wouldn't see the field except for injuries and a suspension?
This is what good defenses do. Some bad ones too...
This is what good defenses do. Some bad ones too...
So we can't make adjustments off that? How about staying under center and giving the look we're going to try and run it down their throats but go play action instead? Soften them up and keep pounding SB.
How about going with a big heavy package a couple of plays and running it at them? SB gets a little crease and they'd pay for the 8 man box. I'd much rather try things like that with SB than rely on our 4-6 best WR's.
What was unknown?
Quote:
In comment 14579383 Carson53 said:
Quote:
in both weeks like they have, your star RB is going to
get less touches.
A normal RB, yeah. If it was Brandon Jacobs, then sure, it doesn't make sense to plow a guy into the line 30 times.
Barkley is a threat for a 20 yard rush or a long TD every touch. The rules aren't the same.
.
He had 21 touches yesterday, they were down 21-7 at the
half. Now that you have that info. to digest, don't know how many touches people expected him to get?
He is not a savior for this inept squad, as talented as he is...
Total touches dont tell the story.
This. One short run, a false start and in comes Gallman and the passing game. PS loves to throw the ball and doesnt appear to have the patience necessary to coach a top flight RB.
What was unknown?
Agreed about how the O is built.
I think what was unknown for me and probably what I should've known and am most frustrated about is our coach not making adjustments and finding creative ways to use our best player.
He's fine when it takes a week to design a first drive but after that? I'm not impressed at all with his in game thinking on his feet.
I know we're young and lacking talent but I hoped this staff would find ways to work to the strengths of the talent we do have. I didn't know they would take the make players fit their scheme approach and not the smarter, opposite approach of designing schemes that fit their players strengths.