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Make your prediction now: do we clean house?

adambear : 9/16/2019 1:01 pm
If we go 5-11 and worse (which seems very likely), do you think the Maras clean house and replace both the coaching staff and Gettleman?

I think they absolutely *should*. I have no confidence in Shurmer as a coach whatsoever. Whether they do remains to be seen.

Thoughts?
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Stay the course  
idiotsavant : 9/16/2019 1:12 pm : link
Draft all D, lbs and free safeties such as 3 or each, plus maybe the best tight end. Following year you get the wrs.
no  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9/16/2019 1:13 pm : link
they will go at least another year. Unless Shurmur loses the team. I don't think that is likely given the personalities.
nope  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2019 1:14 pm : link
Doubt even Shurmur gets canned. At most, the coordinators will take the fall.
To Me This All Hinges On Jones  
lax counsel : 9/16/2019 1:21 pm : link
If he's legitimately good, no one goes anywhere, for likely quite a while. But also, him being good may also mask a lot of organizational deficiencies that have weighed them down the past decade. If he's bad, they may fire people, but it won't be a house cleaning, it will simply be retreads trusted by the organization (i.e, the hiring of DG).

Shurmur...  
bw in dc : 9/16/2019 1:22 pm : link
can save his job if he plays Jones and Jones shines. So the sooner he gets into the project, the more his job security is in his hands.

Which in turn would help Gettleman. But I think Gettleman is super safe - unfortunately. I wouldn't say he's Supreme Court Justice safe, but having Accorsi hand pick and recommend him to Mara is a huge safety net for DG.
If DJ is a Franchise QB and its a bug IF  
Rudy5757 : 9/16/2019 1:27 pm : link
how can you say DG has done a bad job? His drafts with DJ as a good QB can be seen as all positive. We lost with OBJ so there is no difference. He drafted a future HOFer in year 1 and then DJ and some other good players.

His FAs have been bad but hopefully they are just stop gaps while we develop drafted players. For those that said we cleaned house last season of all of our good players, none of those players are doing shit in their new homes or are injured as usual.
There is no way we are firing Shurmur..  
EricJ : 9/16/2019 1:28 pm : link
at the end of this year. Maybe after next season.

We MAY fire Betcher though. The question is... who else is out there at this point. Most quality DCs are already working. Did you want Pepper Johnson? lol
After two years ?  
BillT : 9/16/2019 1:29 pm : link
This franchise was decimated by the previous front office but the new FO gets two years and done. I think that's only asking for even more problems.
The previous Front Office  
RollBlue : 9/16/2019 1:35 pm : link
won a Super Bowl in it's first year, and then another one 4 years later - just a bit different senario would you say? McAdoo went 11-5 and was canned 12 games into year 2 - mainly for having the foresight that they needed to move on from Eli. Gettleman came in boasting he was going to kick ass - looks to me like he's getting his ass cooked, trading away good players w/o much to show for it.
....  
BleedBlue : 9/16/2019 1:35 pm : link
Coaching staff sure.

Gettleman no fucking way. Why would they? It's been two years of complete roster turnover. Much like we can't tell for a little while if the rookie and second years are busts, we can't judge DG.
Shurmur we see him in action daily. DG 100% stays regardless of what happens with shurmur
Too much too soon  
Bluesbreaker : 9/16/2019 1:40 pm : link
have To play the season out we all expect to see some growth
very few were thinking playoffs but the first two games
myself the Dallas game and the score is about what I
expected Cowboys are for real . I did however expect
better defensive play vs the Bills knowing there defense
was gonna be a tough matchup I expected a low scoring
game I din't think we would give up 4 TD's .
DG has done a decent job drafting and putting some pieces
in place the coaching so far not so much on all levels .
They rarely if ever fire coaches mid-season .
Haven't we been cleaning house for the past 2 years?  
PatersonPlank : 9/16/2019 1:41 pm : link
Most players gone, coaches gone, GM gone.

We look like crap, but this IS part of the house cleaning process
I think Gettleman is  
Dankbeerman : 9/16/2019 1:43 pm : link
very safe.

He is doing what needs to be done to remake the franchise while following the instructions of the Ownership. He has to tear down and rebuild while playing Eli and not ever giving up on the season.

He has made this team young, cleaned up the character, has drafted well and aqquired extra draft capital. He has tansformed the lines on both sides and added depth with eye towards buliding outstanding special teams.

as for the coaching we needed a profesional in here to handle the circus left behind and while shurmur hasnt wowed he is at least acting like a head coach. I dont know if he will be the one to coach the team on their way back up but he is gonna push it through the turnaround.

If Jones is the goods and the cp space is there to play with we may be able to lure a big time candidate
RE: Haven't we been cleaning house for the past 2 years?  
Scooter185 : 9/16/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14580455 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Most players gone, coaches gone, GM gone.

We look like crap, but this IS part of the house cleaning process


Unfortunately the Giant's ownership has been cleaning with bleach and ammonia....

As evidenced by the Eli benching fiasco, Mara doesn't like being embarrassed, so hopefully 16 games of embarrassment will be a wake up call.

However my confidence in ownership hiring the right type of people to actually build a modern NFL roster is basically 0%
RE: I think Gettleman is  
peteschweaty : 9/16/2019 2:00 pm : link
In comment 14580468 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:
very safe.

He is doing what needs to be done to remake the franchise while following the instructions of the Ownership. He has to tear down and rebuild while playing Eli and not ever giving up on the season.

He has made this team young, cleaned up the character, has drafted well and aqquired extra draft capital. He has tansformed the lines on both sides and added depth with eye towards buliding outstanding special teams.

as for the coaching we needed a profesional in here to handle the circus left behind and while shurmur hasnt wowed he is at least acting like a head coach. I dont know if he will be the one to coach the team on their way back up but he is gonna push it through the turnaround.

If Jones is the goods and the cp space is there to play with we may be able to lure a big time candidate



i agree with all of this but the jurys out on whether he has drafted well...so far other than barkley don't see anyone else really standing out but it's still too early to tell.
5 wins is the cut off  
giantfan2000 : 9/16/2019 2:03 pm : link
below 5 wins and there has to be talk of change
below 4 wins and it would be hard to justify keeping this crew the next year
the real talk will be  
jestersdead : 9/16/2019 2:05 pm : link
if the Giants are so bad that they have a top 3 pick. Do you go QB and trade Jones or try and trade the pick for a haul?

Right now the Giants, Jets and Dolphins have legitimate shots at the #1 pick.
I remember having this conversation  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/16/2019 2:06 pm : link
about McAdoo, and the usual suspects were saying that the Giants eould never fire a coach after 2 years.

This isn't the Giants of old. Another terrible record might put Shurmer's head in the noose given his current coaching record.

I certainly don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.
Before we start praising how much better DG's drafts are  
figgy2989 : 9/16/2019 2:07 pm : link
compared to Reese's, we need to see more out of some of these guys. Obviously, Barkley is a home run thus far, but Reese had a home run in Beckham too.

I really want to see guys like Hernandez and Hill take that next step in year 2. Jury is still out on Lorenzo Carter and who knows what you have in Beal.



*Shurmur  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/16/2019 2:07 pm : link
fuck
If the decision on Shurmur and Gettleman  
eugibs : 9/16/2019 2:07 pm : link
is so dependent on Daniel Jones, then don't they have an incentive to sit him as long as possible? Why should Jones get to be their get out of jail free card this year? It starts to feel like taking a qb that high is some sort of scam to buy yourself extra time.

Let's not forget that this is the current regime's second season, not it's first. They already had an entire offseason where critical decisions were made. The fact that they waited a year before taking a quarterback and fully embracing the "rebuild" should not extend their leash. That was their decision. If the team is awful and not progressing after two seasons, then serious consideration needs to be given as to whether this the correct direction for the franchise. You probably need a third season to fairly assess the regime, but if this is another 5 or less win season, then no one should be automatically safe.
Even if there's a catastrophic collapse, they're here  
jcn56 : 9/16/2019 2:08 pm : link
for another year. I think that would be a huge mistake, but it is what it is.
RE: I remember having this conversation  
Scooter185 : 9/16/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14580559 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
about McAdoo, and the usual suspects were saying that the Giants eould never fire a coach after 2 years.

This isn't the Giants of old. Another terrible record might put Shurmer's head in the noose given his current coaching record.

I certainly don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.


I was pissed at the McADooDoo hire as HC the second it was announced, but what did him and Reese in was playing Geno Smith.
RE: If the decision on Shurmur and Gettleman  
eugibs : 9/16/2019 2:14 pm : link
In comment 14580566 eugibs said:
Quote:
is so dependent on Daniel Jones, then don't they have an incentive to sit him as long as possible? Why should Jones get to be their get out of jail free card this year? It starts to feel like taking a qb that high is some sort of scam to buy yourself extra time.

Let's not forget that this is the current regime's second season, not it's first. They already had an entire offseason where critical decisions were made. The fact that they waited a year before taking a quarterback and fully embracing the "rebuild" should not extend their leash. That was their decision. If the team is awful and not progressing after two seasons, then serious consideration needs to be given as to whether this the correct direction for the franchise. You probably need a third season to fairly assess the regime, but if this is another 5 or less win season, then no one should be automatically safe.


In terms of prediction, if things continue to be bad, I think the defensive coordinator will be fired after this season. Shurmur will be fired after the following season. Gettleman will be fired the season after that. The Giants don't "clean house," they begrudgingly let go of one piece at a time.
RE: This franchise doesnít clean house.  
Nine-Tails : 9/16/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14580333 Default said:
Quote:
I rearranges and takes furniture out of storage.


Most accurate statement on how the Giants operate. Well said
RE: RE: I think Gettleman is  
Dankbeerman : 9/16/2019 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14580540 peteschweaty said:
Quote:


i agree with all of this but the jurys out on whether he has drafted well...so far other than barkley don't see anyone else really standing out but it's still too early to tell.


Its not standing out but hernadez, Hill,Carter,Lawerence,Baker have all accended into starters and havent had anybody look like a bust yet. The bottom of the roster is light years ahead of the last 8 or 9 years
No, shurmur will get this season and next  
V.I.G. : 9/16/2019 2:46 pm : link
With DJ
Nope  
moespree : 9/16/2019 2:49 pm : link
Mara will say Shurmur and by extension DG deserve a full season with Jones as QB. Perhaps that is fair, even though I doubt it is likely to help.

They might dump the coordinators though. That I could see.
Gettleman  
DanMetroMan : 9/16/2019 2:52 pm : link
will be fired, they will talk to 3-4 hot shot names and then re-hire Ernie.
RE: Gettleman  
bigbluehoya : 9/16/2019 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14580668 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
will be fired, they will talk to 3-4 hot shot names and then re-hire Ernie.


I know you're half kidding around but this is still nightmare food.

Geez I hope not unless the bottom  
Bubba : 9/16/2019 2:53 pm : link
completely falls out. The entire D roster is geared towards Betcher's scheme. He goes then what?
RE: Gettleman  
moespree : 9/16/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14580668 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
will be fired, they will talk to 3-4 hot shot names and then re-hire Ernie.


Ernie will lead the interview process and ask the candidates their opinion on how Johnny Unitas gripped the ball and what they thought of the 1972 Baltimore Colts offensive line.

Not satisfied with any of the answers he will recommend himself to Mara.
RE: RE: Gettleman  
eugibs : 9/16/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14580684 moespree said:
Quote:
In comment 14580668 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


will be fired, they will talk to 3-4 hot shot names and then re-hire Ernie.



Ernie will lead the interview process and ask the candidates their opinion on how Johnny Unitas gripped the ball and what they thought of the 1972 Baltimore Colts offensive line.

Not satisfied with any of the answers he will recommend himself to Mara.


That was an LOL moment. Well done.
I think we see where we are at after the 2020 season  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/16/2019 3:03 pm : link
That's been my position. 2 games into year 2 is too early for this conversation.
Papa and Banks suggested ...  
BronxBob : 9/16/2019 3:17 pm : link
... that we had drafted just about next to Buffalo the past two years, starting from similar season results before that (<< all my words), their point, of course, being that the Bills have already revitalized their franchise and the Giants ... you can guess the rest. I thought we already DID clean house. How TF clean does it have to get?
Haven't they been cleaning house?????  
micky : 9/16/2019 3:34 pm : link
They've been sweeping the dirst from one corner to the other corner over there! Jeez
RE: They won't  
Mr. Bungle : 9/16/2019 3:35 pm : link
In comment 14580360 Go Terps said:
Quote:
They're too stupid not to.

Fucking finally! You're back!
A Go Terps sighting  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/16/2019 3:40 pm : link
???
I agree  
Les in TO : 9/16/2019 3:55 pm : link
It comes down to Jones. If he plays like he did in preseason and we start winning some games I think there will be continuity. If heís a bust Shurmur will be canned and Gettleman will get a Coughlin retirement
RE: RE: They won't  
Go Terps : 9/16/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14580779 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14580360 Go Terps said:


Quote:


They're too stupid not to.


Fucking finally! You're back!


It was either vent here or shower my office with blood out of my temples over this stupid team.
clean house?  
nochance : 9/16/2019 4:50 pm : link
We already cleaned house. The biggest problems on defense is a very green secondary with no ready edge rushers. Couple this with bad inside LBS who cant cover TE's and you have a defensive disaster. Hopefully experience will start to solve some of our problems
I don't know, I guess a 'dynamic' team would  
Model4001 : 9/16/2019 4:51 pm : link
for lack of a better term...

But the Giants are the equivalent of a fat old man passed out in a La-Z-Boy...they'll probably keep Gettleman and have him hire someone from his or their long-ago past to be the next coach, then someday that coach will pick his old boss from 100 years ago to be the next GM, and this fucking boring-ass team will just continue to lurch forward, half-dead, year after year.
RE: clean house?  
jcn56 : 9/16/2019 4:52 pm : link
In comment 14580959 nochance said:
Quote:
We already cleaned house. The biggest problems on defense is a very green secondary with no ready edge rushers. Couple this with bad inside LBS who cant cover TE's and you have a defensive disaster. Hopefully experience will start to solve some of our problems


No edge rushers and bad LBs - you know the guys who are currently running the show are the ones who brought these players in, right?
No, they have just started cleaning  
section125 : 9/16/2019 4:57 pm : link
house the past two years. They will get one more year to sort it out.
We have all asked for the deadwood to be cut, the young guys to play and eat whatever happens because of all the young guys playing.
Well, they are playing. 1st game was an unmitigated disaster. Yesterday was actually a bit better - they actually got sacks - but the offense was bad.
There are still huge holes in the team that will require a good draft next year.
So no, unless Shurmur does something nutso, he a Gettleman will be here next year.
RE: No, they have just started cleaning  
BlueLou'sBack : 9/16/2019 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14580981 section125 said:
Quote:
house the past two years. They will get one more year to sort it out.
We have all asked for the deadwood to be cut, the young guys to play and eat whatever happens because of all the young guys playing.
Well, they are playing. 1st game was an unmitigated disaster. Yesterday was actually a bit better - they actually got sacks - but the offense was bad.
There are still huge holes in the team that will require a good draft next year.
So no, unless Shurmur does something nutso, he a Gettleman will be here next year.


Good summary of the current situation.
No - not the GM  
RobCarpenter : 9/16/2019 8:55 pm : link
Maybe Shurmur, but I think he gets another year unless the wheels completely fall off.

Iím glad it took this thread to get Go Terps out of hiding.
" I can fix this" Greg Schiano  
gtt350 : 9/16/2019 9:26 pm : link
.
We did clean house.  
Scuzzlebutt : 9/16/2019 9:32 pm : link
This is the housecleaning. This is the full tear down and rebuild everyone was clamoring for and a lot of people donít seem to understand it. Itís weird.
first they cleaned out Reese's team  
fkap : 9/16/2019 9:50 pm : link
now they need to clean out the lackluster guys Gettleman brought in.

W-L is not as important as direction the team is headed. The coaching staff has to develop the youngsters and cohesive units. We are going to lose while this is happening, but we'll be set up for success next year. If it doesn't happen, the Giants should clean out the coaching staff, but I have doubts as to whether they will. If the team still doesn't advance next year, coaches will be canned.
IF the replacement coaches don't have success, maybe management will be replaced. by then, the Giants will be even more of a laughing stock than they are now, and firmly entrenched in a culture of losing.

Pray Gettleman and company know what they're doing, because if not, we could be facing a decade of pathetic awfulness. People were arguing about how picking the wrong QB could set a team back 3-5 years. Picking the wrong GM can set you back 2 or 3 times that.
RE: first they cleaned out Reese's team  
Matt M. : 9/16/2019 10:12 pm : link
In comment 14581561 fkap said:
Quote:
now they need to clean out the lackluster guys Gettleman brought in.

W-L is not as important as direction the team is headed. The coaching staff has to develop the youngsters and cohesive units. We are going to lose while this is happening, but we'll be set up for success next year. If it doesn't happen, the Giants should clean out the coaching staff, but I have doubts as to whether they will. If the team still doesn't advance next year, coaches will be canned.
IF the replacement coaches don't have success, maybe management will be replaced. by then, the Giants will be even more of a laughing stock than they are now, and firmly entrenched in a culture of losing.

Pray Gettleman and company know what they're doing, because if not, we could be facing a decade of pathetic awfulness. People were arguing about how picking the wrong QB could set a team back 3-5 years. Picking the wrong GM can set you back 2 or 3 times that.
Right now, I don't feel like the team is totally devoid of talent as much as victims of terrible coaching. Now, I'm still not sure that we have much talent either. But, the problems on D seem indicative, to me, of terrible coaching in terms of having players prepared and the overall scheme. Bettcher is less than inspiring and when at least 8 guys at a time seem caught off guard by play action every time and there are multiple defenders out of position every pass play, it is definitely a coaching issue.

On O, it is more about the playcalling and scheme. This offense is horrible beyond just these 2 games. There is no cohesion, there is a strange reluctance to give the best player in the league 25+ touches every game. I mean is it a crime to throw the ball beyond 4 yards on 3rd down? Last week not handing it to Barkley once in 3 short yardage situations is insane? Then to elect for Penny and Eli on the move makes it beyond imaginable. Coaching.

IF we have talent, I have no confidence right now that this staff will develop it and make them any better.
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