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Sy'56's Giants-Bills Game Review is Now Available

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/16/2019 2:07 pm
FYI...


Game Review: Buffalo Bills 28 New York Giants 14 - ( New Window )
Great  
AcidTest : 9/16/2019 2:14 pm : link
review. Thanks.
sigh Sy  
Jints in Carolina : 9/16/2019 2:19 pm : link
"With the lead at 7-0 and Barkley having just owned the BUF defense on all levels, they gave him the ball right away on the second drive he gained 5 yards. They then proceeded to take him off the field for Wayne Gallman. Three plays later, NYG was punting the ball back to BUF."
Thanks Sy. That seemed pretty accurate. Anything regarding Julian  
Ira : 9/16/2019 2:21 pm : link
Love? Did he get in the game either at safety or at nickel corner?
Closing thought #3 was spot on  
jcn56 : 9/16/2019 2:23 pm : link
Going away from Barkley in short yardage situations and not splitting him out more was borderline criminal, especially when you know your WRs are all injured (and weren't any great shakes before the injuries).
Great write up Sy  
GIANTS128 : 9/16/2019 2:27 pm : link
Banks on the ride home yesterday had some interesting comments about the defense. I wonder what your thoughts are:

1.The defense has no identity. It doesnt do anything well. He believes Bettcher needs to establish something and work off that.

2. They just dont have that "guy" on defense. Someone the offense has to at least think about. We have 11 average to below average starters.

3. Basically said the same thing you did about Baker...his head is swimming. On the big play to Beasley he took the inside receiver and let Beasley go wide open down the sideline. Said thats cornerback 101 and proves he is thinking to muchand doesnt know where he is supposed to be
SYY  
jvm52106 : 9/16/2019 2:28 pm : link
great write up. But, I have to disagree about Jones. There is NO reason to play Manning period! Looking better against shitty teams doesn't mean better for the GIANTS. JOnes plays a style and brings options that Manning just can't do and doesn't have. Jones will make mistakes but, he played well enough, long enough in the preseason to know he can handle the job. Manning is simply done.. I don't care about stats, my eyes tell me all I need to know. He just isn't that guy anymore and hasn't been in YEARS! What are we delaying here? How does this protect Jones?

Tampa Bay is the perfect opportunity for Jones to play. #1- the Bucs defense showed a TON of holes in their game against Carolina. Had Newton had any sort of accuracy and had he been his old self as far as running with the ball, this game is over and Carolina wins. His 300 yard passing day was a mirage and an clear indicator at how shitty the Bucs defense is. Olsen ate them up and the dude is injured and old. This padded Newton's stats. HIs inability to hit the broadside of a barn and being very immobile kept the Panthers out of the endzone. Evan Engram should be running FREE against this defense.

Daniel Jones's time is now.

SB's usage is 100% on PS and Eli. I think Eli misses opportunities to hit Barkley because he waits to long to get him the ball and either allows the defense to come screaming up at SB or Eli just pulls off and looks elsewhere. Plus, his fucking check down routine leads to batted passes and 3 and outs.

PS just doesn't seem to have a flare for calling consecutive series of plays. First series we look great and then its like the foot comes off the accelerator or he gets too damn cute with the plays. SB is your bread, butter, drink and after dinner mint.. You cannot use him enough in a game...

Sy  
shocktheworld : 9/16/2019 2:33 pm : link
Love these reviews buddy (not so much the NYG results haha) you are a huge asset to this site. Thanks man
thanks Sy  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/16/2019 2:34 pm : link
great write up
I was at the game yesterday -- a few observations  
g-baby : 9/16/2019 2:39 pm : link
I don't know if it was by design, but Baker was playing so far off the ball in almost every situation. It was a BUF 3rd & 9 and Baker was 10 yards off. It was clear as day for everyone in the stadium where Allen was going to throw (and he did for a first down). I agree CB is just about toughest position for rookie, but isn't Baker's strength being physical at the LOS and disrupting routes/timing? We should focus on putting our players in position to do what they do best. Stop overthinking things. Line up and play ball.

Don't know if the broadcast showed it as well, but our receivers were getting ZERO separation most of the game. Most completions had a defender draped all over our guys. Our WRs are ideal #4/#5 guys -- I don't see production increasing if they need to see extended time.

On that note, I don't understand Shurmur's obsession with trotting out 11 personnel. I don't have the formation percentage breakdown, but it was a close enough game with plenty of time left to line up in 2TE or Jumbo and try to make some things happen in run game and play action.

Maybe the offense will spark when Jones inevitably starts. Shurmur's typical offense seems better suited for his skill set. I just think Shurmur has shown and unwillingness or inability to tailor the gameplan around his team's (limited) strengths. Do one thing well for the first drive and then try to outsmart everyone. I have doubts that he will ever be a successful HC.
I agree  
weaverpsu : 9/16/2019 2:41 pm : link
about Eli. Let him play the next two games and go from there. Baker looked god awful and people here are saying he should be playing more aggressive man to man coverage. I wouldn't be against playing Ballentine more based on what we saw during preseason.
Sy's plan for Eli/Jones  
BillT : 9/16/2019 2:56 pm : link
Quote:
"My plan would be to let Manning play the next 2 weeks (@ TB, vs. WAS), and if NYG still looks like they are stuck in the mud, turn it over to Jones and let him start 12 games.
"

This makes sense.
I struggle to see why giving the rains to Jones  
larryflower37 : 9/16/2019 2:59 pm : link
Signal giving up on the season.
I think he is a better than Manning at this point and would give the Giants a better shot of beating Washington and Tampa.
Manning instills no confidence in this team anymore.
Jones would bring energy and mobility also is more accurate than Manning at this point in his career.
See if Pittsburgh or New Orleans wants him so you remove the distraction all together.
Some areas where I disagree...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/16/2019 3:02 pm : link
- Regardless of why Saquon came out of the game, the Giants didn't need to stop running the ball and immediately go to passing out of some shotgun formations. Keep running the damn ball with Gallman.

- Are we really criticizing Fowler for the drop after that massive hit? Sometimes, players on the other team make plays.

- I don't get the focus on the WRs. It seems as if because the names weren't there, people want to complain about them. I'll have to watch the game again (ugh) to see if I'm just way off here.

- Daniel Jones making his first career starts against the Vikings defense and on a short week in New England sounds like a horrible idea.
re: Pass Rush and scheme  
g-baby : 9/16/2019 3:04 pm : link
We've read plenty of times that Bettcher's front is based around the DL penetrating and getting upfield.

Yet on pretty much every pass play, the DL are engaging with the OL and then fighting to disengage and make plays. There seems to be little creativity with shooting gaps and running stunts to manufacture pass rush.

Golden was active yesterday and i think he will improve throughout season. We heard all offseason that Carter is rushing "with a plan" but right now that plan seems to be run directly into the OL and then try to make something happen. His anticipation and countermoves are just not there yet.

Re: Lawrence -- i think he'll be a very good player in time, but not realistic to expect tons of production this year. It's a tough job to play on the D interior as a rookie. And remember that he was on a STACKED DL at Clemson which def made his job easier. Not so much the case in the NFL. I also think that while he carries his immense size very cleanly, his conditioning is not yet where it needs to be to consistently dominate in the trenches at the pro level.
Also Bethea bit badly on a crossing route when he was the lone  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/16/2019 3:04 pm : link
deep safety and allowed a receiver over the top with no help. Luckily, Josh Allen overthrew the receiver or that would've been another blown coverage disaster.
RE: Thanks Sy. That seemed pretty accurate. Anything regarding Julian  
Sy'56 : 9/16/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14580599 Ira said:
Quote:
Love? Did he get in the game either at safety or at nickel corner?


Love was special teams only
RE: Great write up Sy  
Sy'56 : 9/16/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14580611 GIANTS128 said:
Quote:
Banks on the ride home yesterday had some interesting comments about the defense. I wonder what your thoughts are:

1.The defense has no identity. It doesnt do anything well. He believes Bettcher needs to establish something and work off that.

2. They just dont have that "guy" on defense. Someone the offense has to at least think about. We have 11 average to below average starters.

3. Basically said the same thing you did about Baker...his head is swimming. On the big play to Beasley he took the inside receiver and let Beasley go wide open down the sideline. Said thats cornerback 101 and proves he is thinking to muchand doesnt know where he is supposed to be


I Bettcher has an identity. Be very aggressive, trust your corners

Problem is, nobody wins 1 on 1 pass rush battle and, right now, NYG has 1 DB that can cover consistently
RE: Some areas where I disagree...  
Sy'56 : 9/16/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14580695 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
- Regardless of why Saquon came out of the game, the Giants didn't need to stop running the ball and immediately go to passing out of some shotgun formations. Keep running the damn ball with Gallman.

- Are we really criticizing Fowler for the drop after that massive hit? Sometimes, players on the other team make plays.

- I don't get the focus on the WRs. It seems as if because the names weren't there, people want to complain about them. I'll have to watch the game again (ugh) to see if I'm just way off here.

- Daniel Jones making his first career starts against the Vikings defense and on a short week in New England sounds like a horrible idea.


There are WRs that make that catch. Not going to say he "should have" caught it considering his a street free agent type, though. But it was a big play that could have been made. His illegal formation penalty was idiotic, as well.

The WRs are getting little-to-no separation

-Jones up against MIN and then NE would be a real test and something I would like to see him go through in year one. Because this team needs to be a winner in 2020.
the under/mis-utilization of barkley  
japanhead : 9/16/2019 3:27 pm : link
is a real head scratcher and it really makes one doubt shurmur knows what the hell he's doing. i too expected him to be split out wide this week. we saw shurmur do this last year as well, seemingly to a lesser extent.

also: buffalo has a really good roster.
Thanks Sy  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/16/2019 3:31 pm : link
Hopefully Baker develops. I think the staff had big plans for Beal who unfortunately has the injury bug thus far.

Good news regarding Hill and Lawrence. If these two continue to develop as game changers then helps.


It would be great if they have the secondary and DL pieces this year and the focus can be on a game changer ER.

Any chance we could abandon the 3-4?  
5BowlsSoon : 9/16/2019 3:35 pm : link
I have not been a fan of either Fowler or Latimer. Im not sure why our coaching staff are fans.

Give credit to Bills for taking out Engram even though they didnt have to deal with Shepherd and Tate, our two best.
Sy  
arniefez : 9/16/2019 3:35 pm : link
in your evaluation do the Giants have any player on defense who is in the top 15 at his position in the NFL? Top 20?
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 9/16/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14580783 arniefez said:
Quote:
in your evaluation do the Giants have any player on defense who is in the top 15 at his position in the NFL? Top 20?


I would have to sit down and think.

Top 10? No.

Top 15...eh. Probably Janoris Jenkins, maybe BJ Hill if we are talking DT/3-4 DE hybrids.
I think Fowler's arm went numb on  
section125 : 9/16/2019 3:40 pm : link
that hit and that is why the ball came out. You could see he couldn't move it - bet it was a direct hit to the elbow.

SY, surprised you didn't mention Eli's ducks and dying quail throws.

Yes Baker is shell shocked. He gave up an easy 1st down on a 3rd and nine because he was 12 yards off the LoS.

Amazing that the same POS officials that did not call the helmet to helmet hit on Lattimer called Lawrence for brushing the center's helmet (not a penalty). Pretty funny that Gene Steratore flat out called it a bad call. Probably the same guy that threw the flag on Golden(that was picked up) when the Bills TE shoved him, hooked him then did the monster flop when Golden shoved him away. Probably should have been 15 on him for unsportsmanlike conduct.
Thanks Sy  
Jay on the Island : 9/16/2019 3:44 pm : link
I agree about Barkley split out wide. I thought that we were going to see several packages with him outside. It would be exceedingly beneficial with all the injuries to the WR corps. Even as a decoy he would take all the attention away from Engram, Shepard, Latimer, and the other receivers. I hope that we see more of this moving forward.
I just now watched the game. Eli has to be one of the duds  
DonQuixote : 9/16/2019 3:49 pm : link
Eli played poorly. Your writeup of Eli is particularly damning, and I have to agree.

I can see Baker as one of the three duds, but Eli is two of the other three.

Why are we mincing words here? Eli looks terrible. Jones needs to start. I don't expect him to be the savior, but I want to give him the chance to show if he is our long term QB. We may be drafting top 5 after all.

I don't see the point in playing Eli  
justafan : 9/16/2019 3:49 pm : link
If the giants if fall to 0-3.
Everyone bringing up the schedule like it matters.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/16/2019 4:03 pm : link
What did you draft him for if you're afraid of playing him against good teams and facing adversity?

Eli Manning had to play Baltimore and Pittsburgh as a rookie. Yeah he struggled. 0.0 QB Rating in a game. Struggle is part of learning. Get it out of the way now.
Sy  
arniefez : 9/16/2019 4:08 pm : link
thanks for the reply.
Later on in the game  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/16/2019 4:28 pm : link
The DL was doing a good job of two gapping against SB, often getting in on tackles.
the Lawrence stuff is encouraging  
bluepepper : 9/16/2019 4:36 pm : link
was starting to worry about him. He did indeed get some pressure including the 3rd down play right before his now infamous penalty. With Baker struggling and Jones sitting, it really feels like we need to be getting something from this guy. Rookies or not when you have 3 first rounders you expect at least some production.
Indeed 4 tackles and 2 pressures  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 9/16/2019 4:41 pm : link
would put Lawrence on pace for 64 tackles and 32 pressures a year, tremendous for a "NT".

Also he's on pace for 8 bs wtf ST penalty calls.
Sy really puts a lot of work in these reviews  
Danny Dimes : 9/16/2019 4:45 pm : link
Id hate to see him have to do such great work for a team that doesn't even care. Sy should play, he may be best pass rusher they get, he sure as hell will look like only one who cares to win on the field. I don't like he wrote a review about me though saying giants should pass on me and wait another year. Plus an 80 for my grade?? Psssh
What i gatta do to get a 99 grading
RE: sigh Sy  
Matt M. : 9/16/2019 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14580592 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
"With the lead at 7-0 and Barkley having just owned the BUF defense on all levels, they gave him the ball right away on the second drive he gained 5 yards. They then proceeded to take him off the field for Wayne Gallman. Three plays later, NYG was punting the ball back to BUF."
This was a real head scratcher for me. It was almost like they xecided right there the running game is established, let's move on. While thdy ran more this week, they still werentcommitted to the run.
RE: Indeed 4 tackles and 2 pressures  
BillT : 9/16/2019 5:10 pm : link
In comment 14580925 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
would put Lawrence on pace for 64 tackles and 32 pressures a year, tremendous for a "NT".

Also he's on pace for 8 bs wtf ST penalty calls.

He plays DE.
Bettcher should take  
mrvax : 9/16/2019 5:17 pm : link
Deandre Baker aside and say, "Look, don't overthink it. Just go out there and have fun. Try to do what you've always done. Trust yourself and have fun!"

Baker is much better than this.
Sy'56...  
M.S. : 9/16/2019 5:19 pm : link
...very much appreciate your thorough analysis.

DeAndre Baker has me in a state of shock. Saw him a ton at Georgia and I would have never guessed he would look so bad as a rookie NFL CB. His concept of zone coverage is non-existent. If they don't let him play face-up, they should sit him before his confidence is destroyed any further.

I won't blame Pat Shurmur for DeAndre's piss poor performance, but why do I get a sense that our Head Coach has not taken the bull by the horns and straightened out this very confused young CB?
It feels like the Giants have been drafting man-press corners  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/16/2019 5:25 pm : link
and forcing them to learn and play off coverage that they have no experience with for YEARS, going back to Corey Webster.
I think every Giants fan in the nation  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/16/2019 5:26 pm : link
was agitated when they saw Barkley go to the sideline in that second series.
Yeah, even as a confirmed Gettleman critic  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2019 6:46 pm : link
I was happy with the Baker pick. Didn't expect to see him struggle so mightily.
It's almost as if....  
Tesla : 9/16/2019 6:54 pm : link
we should have let these guys play a few games before declaring that Gettleman had a great draft.
There is a complete lack of identity offensively  
Aaroninma : 9/16/2019 7:25 pm : link
We build a team for ground and pound with some Play Action, then try to shoehorn this WCO BS instead.



it's time to start playing love and ballentine  
GiantsFan84 : 9/16/2019 7:26 pm : link
and jones and all the rest of the kids. take you lumps. get them experience. it will pay off in the long run
Shurmur is clueless.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/16/2019 7:36 pm : link
.
RE: SYY  
Giantz_comeback : 9/16/2019 8:00 pm : link
In comment 14580613 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
great write up. But, I have to disagree about Jones. There is NO reason to play Manning period! Looking better against shitty teams doesn't mean better for the GIANTS. JOnes plays a style and brings options that Manning just can't do and doesn't have. Jones will make mistakes but, he played well enough, long enough in the preseason to know he can handle the job. Manning is simply done.. I don't care about stats, my eyes tell me all I need to know. He just isn't that guy anymore and hasn't been in YEARS! What are we delaying here? How does this protect Jones?

Tampa Bay is the perfect opportunity for Jones to play. #1- the Bucs defense showed a TON of holes in their game against Carolina. Had Newton had any sort of accuracy and had he been his old self as far as running with the ball, this game is over and Carolina wins. His 300 yard passing day was a mirage and an clear indicator at how shitty the Bucs defense is. Olsen ate them up and the dude is injured and old. This padded Newton's stats. HIs inability to hit the broadside of a barn and being very immobile kept the Panthers out of the endzone. Evan Engram should be running FREE against this defense.

Daniel Jones's time is now.

SB's usage is 100% on PS and Eli. I think Eli misses opportunities to hit Barkley because he waits to long to get him the ball and either allows the defense to come screaming up at SB or Eli just pulls off and looks elsewhere. Plus, his fucking check down routine leads to batted passes and 3 and outs.

PS just doesn't seem to have a flare for calling consecutive series of plays. First series we look great and then its like the foot comes off the accelerator or he gets too damn cute with the plays. SB is your bread, butter, drink and after dinner mint.. You cannot use him enough in a game...


Shurmur was a heck of a game caller for the Vikes. He won OC of the year or whatever. He also had a multiple average QBs play pretty darn well under his watch . I wouldn't write him off yet.

Tate and Shep back and DJ at QB if we still stink on O by week 10 my thoughts might change.
RE: It's almost as if....  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/16/2019 8:51 pm : link
In comment 14581203 Tesla said:
Quote:
we should have let these guys play a few games before declaring that Gettleman had a great draft.


This drives me nuts. Waaaaay too many people here plugging in first year players and second year players that didn't show much being solid NFL players. Even the best ones struggle. Shit Nelson struggled last year than dominates the second half.
I agree SY- holdoff starting Jones  
giantstock : 9/16/2019 10:56 pm : link
With his current WR core -- there is no reason to put him through it.

Let's get our WR core back so when teams inevitably stack the box then come full bore to rush him - he'll have experienced WR's to throw to that can get some separation.
Excellent write-up except for your description of the  
CT Charlie : 9/16/2019 10:56 pm : link
HUGE penalty on Lawrence. It wasn't a questionable call, or even a (very) questionable call. It was a horrible call, so bad that the rules guy in the booth didn't hesitate to say so. And it was pivotal.

FWIW, I think Shurmur could do an excellent job of calling plays, even with this group of players, if that were his only job. Between offensive series, though, he's understandably focused on the defense instead of conferring with Eli and all the rest of the offensive guys. I don't think he has the intuition or keen analytical skills to call plays as a part-time job. He ought to delegate it to Shula -- heck, I'd trust Eli to do a better job of play calling all by himself.
RE: RE: SYY  
giantstock : 9/16/2019 11:04 pm : link
In comment 14581276 Giantz_comeback said:
Quote:
In comment 14580613 jvm52106 said:


Quote:





Shurmur was a heck of a game caller for the Vikes. He won OC of the year or whatever. He also had a multiple average QBs play pretty darn well under his watch . I wouldn't write him off yet.

Tate and Shep back and DJ at QB if we still stink on O by week 10 my thoughts might change.


I tend to think it was luck - everything fell into place for him - ofc I don't know. But for 2 straight years he under-utilizes one of the super great weapons we've seen in a long long time. Instead for example he chooses on key downs to "roll out Eli."

I fear he thinks keeping other team guessing is better than utilizing your best player a lot even if he doesn't have that good of a Qb and worse receiving core. He has the look so far of a true blockhead.
That was a fair and good review  
montanagiant : 9/17/2019 1:34 am : link
Sy
Sy  
1st and 10 : 9/17/2019 9:07 am : link
you mentioned that Baker might have had the worst half you have seen out of a CB in the last 6 years of football. Can you give a brief of what you thought about him in the 2nd half?
Thanks Sy  
TyreeHelmet : 9/17/2019 10:42 am : link
"13 running backs have more carries than Barkley. 10 running backs have more catches than Barkley. 8 running backs have more touches than Barkley. Food for thought."

What an alarming stat. Very telling of Shurmur...
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