"With the lead at 7-0 and Barkley having just owned the BUF defense on all levels, they gave him the ball right away on the second drive he gained 5 yards. They then proceeded to take him off the field for Wayne Gallman. Three plays later, NYG was punting the ball back to BUF."
Thanks Sy. That seemed pretty accurate. Anything regarding Julian Â
Going away from Barkley in short yardage situations and not splitting him out more was borderline criminal, especially when you know your WRs are all injured (and weren't any great shakes before the injuries).
Banks on the ride home yesterday had some interesting comments about the defense. I wonder what your thoughts are:
1.The defense has no identity. It doesnt do anything well. He believes Bettcher needs to establish something and work off that.
2. They just dont have that "guy" on defense. Someone the offense has to at least think about. We have 11 average to below average starters.
3. Basically said the same thing you did about Baker...his head is swimming. On the big play to Beasley he took the inside receiver and let Beasley go wide open down the sideline. Said thats cornerback 101 and proves he is thinking to muchand doesnt know where he is supposed to be
great write up. But, I have to disagree about Jones. There is NO reason to play Manning period! Looking better against shitty teams doesn't mean better for the GIANTS. JOnes plays a style and brings options that Manning just can't do and doesn't have. Jones will make mistakes but, he played well enough, long enough in the preseason to know he can handle the job. Manning is simply done.. I don't care about stats, my eyes tell me all I need to know. He just isn't that guy anymore and hasn't been in YEARS! What are we delaying here? How does this protect Jones?
Tampa Bay is the perfect opportunity for Jones to play. #1- the Bucs defense showed a TON of holes in their game against Carolina. Had Newton had any sort of accuracy and had he been his old self as far as running with the ball, this game is over and Carolina wins. His 300 yard passing day was a mirage and an clear indicator at how shitty the Bucs defense is. Olsen ate them up and the dude is injured and old. This padded Newton's stats. HIs inability to hit the broadside of a barn and being very immobile kept the Panthers out of the endzone. Evan Engram should be running FREE against this defense.
Daniel Jones's time is now.
SB's usage is 100% on PS and Eli. I think Eli misses opportunities to hit Barkley because he waits to long to get him the ball and either allows the defense to come screaming up at SB or Eli just pulls off and looks elsewhere. Plus, his fucking check down routine leads to batted passes and 3 and outs.
PS just doesn't seem to have a flare for calling consecutive series of plays. First series we look great and then its like the foot comes off the accelerator or he gets too damn cute with the plays. SB is your bread, butter, drink and after dinner mint.. You cannot use him enough in a game...
I don't know if it was by design, but Baker was playing so far off the ball in almost every situation. It was a BUF 3rd & 9 and Baker was 10 yards off. It was clear as day for everyone in the stadium where Allen was going to throw (and he did for a first down). I agree CB is just about toughest position for rookie, but isn't Baker's strength being physical at the LOS and disrupting routes/timing? We should focus on putting our players in position to do what they do best. Stop overthinking things. Line up and play ball.
Don't know if the broadcast showed it as well, but our receivers were getting ZERO separation most of the game. Most completions had a defender draped all over our guys. Our WRs are ideal #4/#5 guys -- I don't see production increasing if they need to see extended time.
On that note, I don't understand Shurmur's obsession with trotting out 11 personnel. I don't have the formation percentage breakdown, but it was a close enough game with plenty of time left to line up in 2TE or Jumbo and try to make some things happen in run game and play action.
Maybe the offense will spark when Jones inevitably starts. Shurmur's typical offense seems better suited for his skill set. I just think Shurmur has shown and unwillingness or inability to tailor the gameplan around his team's (limited) strengths. Do one thing well for the first drive and then try to outsmart everyone. I have doubts that he will ever be a successful HC.
about Eli. Let him play the next two games and go from there. Baker looked god awful and people here are saying he should be playing more aggressive man to man coverage. I wouldn't be against playing Ballentine more based on what we saw during preseason.
"My plan would be to let Manning play the next 2 weeks (@ TB, vs. WAS), and if NYG still looks like they are stuck in the mud, turn it over to Jones and let him start 12 games.
Signal giving up on the season.
I think he is a better than Manning at this point and would give the Giants a better shot of beating Washington and Tampa.
Manning instills no confidence in this team anymore.
Jones would bring energy and mobility also is more accurate than Manning at this point in his career.
See if Pittsburgh or New Orleans wants him so you remove the distraction all together.
- Regardless of why Saquon came out of the game, the Giants didn't need to stop running the ball and immediately go to passing out of some shotgun formations. Keep running the damn ball with Gallman.
- Are we really criticizing Fowler for the drop after that massive hit? Sometimes, players on the other team make plays.
- I don't get the focus on the WRs. It seems as if because the names weren't there, people want to complain about them. I'll have to watch the game again (ugh) to see if I'm just way off here.
- Daniel Jones making his first career starts against the Vikings defense and on a short week in New England sounds like a horrible idea.
We've read plenty of times that Bettcher's front is based around the DL penetrating and getting upfield.
Yet on pretty much every pass play, the DL are engaging with the OL and then fighting to disengage and make plays. There seems to be little creativity with shooting gaps and running stunts to manufacture pass rush.
Golden was active yesterday and i think he will improve throughout season. We heard all offseason that Carter is rushing "with a plan" but right now that plan seems to be run directly into the OL and then try to make something happen. His anticipation and countermoves are just not there yet.
Re: Lawrence -- i think he'll be a very good player in time, but not realistic to expect tons of production this year. It's a tough job to play on the D interior as a rookie. And remember that he was on a STACKED DL at Clemson which def made his job easier. Not so much the case in the NFL. I also think that while he carries his immense size very cleanly, his conditioning is not yet where it needs to be to consistently dominate in the trenches at the pro level.
Also Bethea bit badly on a crossing route when he was the lone Â
deep safety and allowed a receiver over the top with no help. Luckily, Josh Allen overthrew the receiver or that would've been another blown coverage disaster.
RE: Thanks Sy. That seemed pretty accurate. Anything regarding Julian Â
Banks on the ride home yesterday had some interesting comments about the defense. I wonder what your thoughts are:
1.The defense has no identity. It doesnt do anything well. He believes Bettcher needs to establish something and work off that.
2. They just dont have that "guy" on defense. Someone the offense has to at least think about. We have 11 average to below average starters.
3. Basically said the same thing you did about Baker...his head is swimming. On the big play to Beasley he took the inside receiver and let Beasley go wide open down the sideline. Said thats cornerback 101 and proves he is thinking to muchand doesnt know where he is supposed to be
I Bettcher has an identity. Be very aggressive, trust your corners
Problem is, nobody wins 1 on 1 pass rush battle and, right now, NYG has 1 DB that can cover consistently
- Regardless of why Saquon came out of the game, the Giants didn't need to stop running the ball and immediately go to passing out of some shotgun formations. Keep running the damn ball with Gallman.
- Are we really criticizing Fowler for the drop after that massive hit? Sometimes, players on the other team make plays.
- I don't get the focus on the WRs. It seems as if because the names weren't there, people want to complain about them. I'll have to watch the game again (ugh) to see if I'm just way off here.
- Daniel Jones making his first career starts against the Vikings defense and on a short week in New England sounds like a horrible idea.
There are WRs that make that catch. Not going to say he "should have" caught it considering his a street free agent type, though. But it was a big play that could have been made. His illegal formation penalty was idiotic, as well.
The WRs are getting little-to-no separation
-Jones up against MIN and then NE would be a real test and something I would like to see him go through in year one. Because this team needs to be a winner in 2020.
is a real head scratcher and it really makes one doubt shurmur knows what the hell he's doing. i too expected him to be split out wide this week. we saw shurmur do this last year as well, seemingly to a lesser extent.
that hit and that is why the ball came out. You could see he couldn't move it - bet it was a direct hit to the elbow.
SY, surprised you didn't mention Eli's ducks and dying quail throws.
Yes Baker is shell shocked. He gave up an easy 1st down on a 3rd and nine because he was 12 yards off the LoS.
Amazing that the same POS officials that did not call the helmet to helmet hit on Lattimer called Lawrence for brushing the center's helmet (not a penalty). Pretty funny that Gene Steratore flat out called it a bad call. Probably the same guy that threw the flag on Golden(that was picked up) when the Bills TE shoved him, hooked him then did the monster flop when Golden shoved him away. Probably should have been 15 on him for unsportsmanlike conduct.
I agree about Barkley split out wide. I thought that we were going to see several packages with him outside. It would be exceedingly beneficial with all the injuries to the WR corps. Even as a decoy he would take all the attention away from Engram, Shepard, Latimer, and the other receivers. I hope that we see more of this moving forward.
I just now watched the game. Eli has to be one of the duds Â
Eli played poorly. Your writeup of Eli is particularly damning, and I have to agree.
I can see Baker as one of the three duds, but Eli is two of the other three.
Why are we mincing words here? Eli looks terrible. Jones needs to start. I don't expect him to be the savior, but I want to give him the chance to show if he is our long term QB. We may be drafting top 5 after all.
What did you draft him for if you're afraid of playing him against good teams and facing adversity?
Eli Manning had to play Baltimore and Pittsburgh as a rookie. Yeah he struggled. 0.0 QB Rating in a game. Struggle is part of learning. Get it out of the way now.
was starting to worry about him. He did indeed get some pressure including the 3rd down play right before his now infamous penalty. With Baker struggling and Jones sitting, it really feels like we need to be getting something from this guy. Rookies or not when you have 3 first rounders you expect at least some production.
Id hate to see him have to do such great work for a team that doesn't even care. Sy should play, he may be best pass rusher they get, he sure as hell will look like only one who cares to win on the field. I don't like he wrote a review about me though saying giants should pass on me and wait another year. Plus an 80 for my grade?? Psssh
What i gatta do to get a 99 grading
"With the lead at 7-0 and Barkley having just owned the BUF defense on all levels, they gave him the ball right away on the second drive he gained 5 yards. They then proceeded to take him off the field for Wayne Gallman. Three plays later, NYG was punting the ball back to BUF."
This was a real head scratcher for me. It was almost like they xecided right there the running game is established, let's move on. While thdy ran more this week, they still werentcommitted to the run.
Deandre Baker aside and say, "Look, don't overthink it. Just go out there and have fun. Try to do what you've always done. Trust yourself and have fun!"
DeAndre Baker has me in a state of shock. Saw him a ton at Georgia and I would have never guessed he would look so bad as a rookie NFL CB. His concept of zone coverage is non-existent. If they don't let him play face-up, they should sit him before his confidence is destroyed any further.
I won't blame Pat Shurmur for DeAndre's piss poor performance, but why do I get a sense that our Head Coach has not taken the bull by the horns and straightened out this very confused young CB?
It feels like the Giants have been drafting man-press corners Â
great write up. But, I have to disagree about Jones. There is NO reason to play Manning period! Looking better against shitty teams doesn't mean better for the GIANTS. JOnes plays a style and brings options that Manning just can't do and doesn't have. Jones will make mistakes but, he played well enough, long enough in the preseason to know he can handle the job. Manning is simply done.. I don't care about stats, my eyes tell me all I need to know. He just isn't that guy anymore and hasn't been in YEARS! What are we delaying here? How does this protect Jones?
Tampa Bay is the perfect opportunity for Jones to play. #1- the Bucs defense showed a TON of holes in their game against Carolina. Had Newton had any sort of accuracy and had he been his old self as far as running with the ball, this game is over and Carolina wins. His 300 yard passing day was a mirage and an clear indicator at how shitty the Bucs defense is. Olsen ate them up and the dude is injured and old. This padded Newton's stats. HIs inability to hit the broadside of a barn and being very immobile kept the Panthers out of the endzone. Evan Engram should be running FREE against this defense.
Daniel Jones's time is now.
SB's usage is 100% on PS and Eli. I think Eli misses opportunities to hit Barkley because he waits to long to get him the ball and either allows the defense to come screaming up at SB or Eli just pulls off and looks elsewhere. Plus, his fucking check down routine leads to batted passes and 3 and outs.
PS just doesn't seem to have a flare for calling consecutive series of plays. First series we look great and then its like the foot comes off the accelerator or he gets too damn cute with the plays. SB is your bread, butter, drink and after dinner mint.. You cannot use him enough in a game...
Shurmur was a heck of a game caller for the Vikes. He won OC of the year or whatever. He also had a multiple average QBs play pretty darn well under his watch . I wouldn't write him off yet.
Tate and Shep back and DJ at QB if we still stink on O by week 10 my thoughts might change.
we should have let these guys play a few games before declaring that Gettleman had a great draft.
This drives me nuts. Waaaaay too many people here plugging in first year players and second year players that didn't show much being solid NFL players. Even the best ones struggle. Shit Nelson struggled last year than dominates the second half.
With his current WR core -- there is no reason to put him through it.
Let's get our WR core back so when teams inevitably stack the box then come full bore to rush him - he'll have experienced WR's to throw to that can get some separation.
Excellent write-up except for your description of the Â
HUGE penalty on Lawrence. It wasn't a questionable call, or even a (very) questionable call. It was a horrible call, so bad that the rules guy in the booth didn't hesitate to say so. And it was pivotal.
FWIW, I think Shurmur could do an excellent job of calling plays, even with this group of players, if that were his only job. Between offensive series, though, he's understandably focused on the defense instead of conferring with Eli and all the rest of the offensive guys. I don't think he has the intuition or keen analytical skills to call plays as a part-time job. He ought to delegate it to Shula -- heck, I'd trust Eli to do a better job of play calling all by himself.
Shurmur was a heck of a game caller for the Vikes. He won OC of the year or whatever. He also had a multiple average QBs play pretty darn well under his watch . I wouldn't write him off yet.
Tate and Shep back and DJ at QB if we still stink on O by week 10 my thoughts might change.
I tend to think it was luck - everything fell into place for him - ofc I don't know. But for 2 straight years he under-utilizes one of the super great weapons we've seen in a long long time. Instead for example he chooses on key downs to "roll out Eli."
I fear he thinks keeping other team guessing is better than utilizing your best player a lot even if he doesn't have that good of a Qb and worse receiving core. He has the look so far of a true blockhead.
you mentioned that Baker might have had the worst half you have seen out of a CB in the last 6 years of football. Can you give a brief of what you thought about him in the 2nd half?
"13 running backs have more carries than Barkley. 10 running backs have more catches than Barkley. 8 running backs have more touches than Barkley. Food for thought."
1.The defense has no identity. It doesnt do anything well. He believes Bettcher needs to establish something and work off that.
2. They just dont have that "guy" on defense. Someone the offense has to at least think about. We have 11 average to below average starters.
3. Basically said the same thing you did about Baker...his head is swimming. On the big play to Beasley he took the inside receiver and let Beasley go wide open down the sideline. Said thats cornerback 101 and proves he is thinking to muchand doesnt know where he is supposed to be
Tampa Bay is the perfect opportunity for Jones to play. #1- the Bucs defense showed a TON of holes in their game against Carolina. Had Newton had any sort of accuracy and had he been his old self as far as running with the ball, this game is over and Carolina wins. His 300 yard passing day was a mirage and an clear indicator at how shitty the Bucs defense is. Olsen ate them up and the dude is injured and old. This padded Newton's stats. HIs inability to hit the broadside of a barn and being very immobile kept the Panthers out of the endzone. Evan Engram should be running FREE against this defense.
Daniel Jones's time is now.
SB's usage is 100% on PS and Eli. I think Eli misses opportunities to hit Barkley because he waits to long to get him the ball and either allows the defense to come screaming up at SB or Eli just pulls off and looks elsewhere. Plus, his fucking check down routine leads to batted passes and 3 and outs.
PS just doesn't seem to have a flare for calling consecutive series of plays. First series we look great and then its like the foot comes off the accelerator or he gets too damn cute with the plays. SB is your bread, butter, drink and after dinner mint.. You cannot use him enough in a game...
Don't know if the broadcast showed it as well, but our receivers were getting ZERO separation most of the game. Most completions had a defender draped all over our guys. Our WRs are ideal #4/#5 guys -- I don't see production increasing if they need to see extended time.
On that note, I don't understand Shurmur's obsession with trotting out 11 personnel. I don't have the formation percentage breakdown, but it was a close enough game with plenty of time left to line up in 2TE or Jumbo and try to make some things happen in run game and play action.
Maybe the offense will spark when Jones inevitably starts. Shurmur's typical offense seems better suited for his skill set. I just think Shurmur has shown and unwillingness or inability to tailor the gameplan around his team's (limited) strengths. Do one thing well for the first drive and then try to outsmart everyone. I have doubts that he will ever be a successful HC.
This makes sense.
I think he is a better than Manning at this point and would give the Giants a better shot of beating Washington and Tampa.
Manning instills no confidence in this team anymore.
Jones would bring energy and mobility also is more accurate than Manning at this point in his career.
See if Pittsburgh or New Orleans wants him so you remove the distraction all together.
- Are we really criticizing Fowler for the drop after that massive hit? Sometimes, players on the other team make plays.
- I don't get the focus on the WRs. It seems as if because the names weren't there, people want to complain about them. I'll have to watch the game again (ugh) to see if I'm just way off here.
- Daniel Jones making his first career starts against the Vikings defense and on a short week in New England sounds like a horrible idea.
Yet on pretty much every pass play, the DL are engaging with the OL and then fighting to disengage and make plays. There seems to be little creativity with shooting gaps and running stunts to manufacture pass rush.
Golden was active yesterday and i think he will improve throughout season. We heard all offseason that Carter is rushing "with a plan" but right now that plan seems to be run directly into the OL and then try to make something happen. His anticipation and countermoves are just not there yet.
Re: Lawrence -- i think he'll be a very good player in time, but not realistic to expect tons of production this year. It's a tough job to play on the D interior as a rookie. And remember that he was on a STACKED DL at Clemson which def made his job easier. Not so much the case in the NFL. I also think that while he carries his immense size very cleanly, his conditioning is not yet where it needs to be to consistently dominate in the trenches at the pro level.
Love was special teams only
1.The defense has no identity. It doesnt do anything well. He believes Bettcher needs to establish something and work off that.
2. They just dont have that "guy" on defense. Someone the offense has to at least think about. We have 11 average to below average starters.
3. Basically said the same thing you did about Baker...his head is swimming. On the big play to Beasley he took the inside receiver and let Beasley go wide open down the sideline. Said thats cornerback 101 and proves he is thinking to muchand doesnt know where he is supposed to be
I Bettcher has an identity. Be very aggressive, trust your corners
Problem is, nobody wins 1 on 1 pass rush battle and, right now, NYG has 1 DB that can cover consistently
- Are we really criticizing Fowler for the drop after that massive hit? Sometimes, players on the other team make plays.
- I don't get the focus on the WRs. It seems as if because the names weren't there, people want to complain about them. I'll have to watch the game again (ugh) to see if I'm just way off here.
- Daniel Jones making his first career starts against the Vikings defense and on a short week in New England sounds like a horrible idea.
There are WRs that make that catch. Not going to say he "should have" caught it considering his a street free agent type, though. But it was a big play that could have been made. His illegal formation penalty was idiotic, as well.
The WRs are getting little-to-no separation
-Jones up against MIN and then NE would be a real test and something I would like to see him go through in year one. Because this team needs to be a winner in 2020.
also: buffalo has a really good roster.
Good news regarding Hill and Lawrence. If these two continue to develop as game changers then helps.
It would be great if they have the secondary and DL pieces this year and the focus can be on a game changer ER.
Give credit to Bills for taking out Engram even though they didn’t have to deal with Shepherd and Tate, our two best.
I would have to sit down and think.
Top 10? No.
Top 15...eh. Probably Janoris Jenkins, maybe BJ Hill if we are talking DT/3-4 DE hybrids.
SY, surprised you didn't mention Eli's ducks and dying quail throws.
Yes Baker is shell shocked. He gave up an easy 1st down on a 3rd and nine because he was 12 yards off the LoS.
Amazing that the same POS officials that did not call the helmet to helmet hit on Lattimer called Lawrence for brushing the center's helmet (not a penalty). Pretty funny that Gene Steratore flat out called it a bad call. Probably the same guy that threw the flag on Golden(that was picked up) when the Bills TE shoved him, hooked him then did the monster flop when Golden shoved him away. Probably should have been 15 on him for unsportsmanlike conduct.
I can see Baker as one of the three duds, but Eli is two of the other three.
Why are we mincing words here? Eli looks terrible. Jones needs to start. I don't expect him to be the savior, but I want to give him the chance to show if he is our long term QB. We may be drafting top 5 after all.
Eli Manning had to play Baltimore and Pittsburgh as a rookie. Yeah he struggled. 0.0 QB Rating in a game. Struggle is part of learning. Get it out of the way now.
Also he's on pace for 8 bs wtf ST penalty calls.
What i gatta do to get a 99 grading
Also he's on pace for 8 bs wtf ST penalty calls.
He plays DE.
Baker is much better than this.
DeAndre Baker has me in a state of shock. Saw him a ton at Georgia and I would have never guessed he would look so bad as a rookie NFL CB. His concept of zone coverage is non-existent. If they don't let him play face-up, they should sit him before his confidence is destroyed any further.
I won't blame Pat Shurmur for DeAndre's piss poor performance, but why do I get a sense that our Head Coach has not taken the bull by the horns and straightened out this very confused young CB?
Tampa Bay is the perfect opportunity for Jones to play. #1- the Bucs defense showed a TON of holes in their game against Carolina. Had Newton had any sort of accuracy and had he been his old self as far as running with the ball, this game is over and Carolina wins. His 300 yard passing day was a mirage and an clear indicator at how shitty the Bucs defense is. Olsen ate them up and the dude is injured and old. This padded Newton's stats. HIs inability to hit the broadside of a barn and being very immobile kept the Panthers out of the endzone. Evan Engram should be running FREE against this defense.
Daniel Jones's time is now.
SB's usage is 100% on PS and Eli. I think Eli misses opportunities to hit Barkley because he waits to long to get him the ball and either allows the defense to come screaming up at SB or Eli just pulls off and looks elsewhere. Plus, his fucking check down routine leads to batted passes and 3 and outs.
PS just doesn't seem to have a flare for calling consecutive series of plays. First series we look great and then its like the foot comes off the accelerator or he gets too damn cute with the plays. SB is your bread, butter, drink and after dinner mint.. You cannot use him enough in a game...
Shurmur was a heck of a game caller for the Vikes. He won OC of the year or whatever. He also had a multiple average QBs play pretty darn well under his watch . I wouldn't write him off yet.
Tate and Shep back and DJ at QB if we still stink on O by week 10 my thoughts might change.
This drives me nuts. Waaaaay too many people here plugging in first year players and second year players that didn't show much being solid NFL players. Even the best ones struggle. Shit Nelson struggled last year than dominates the second half.
Let's get our WR core back so when teams inevitably stack the box then come full bore to rush him - he'll have experienced WR's to throw to that can get some separation.
FWIW, I think Shurmur could do an excellent job of calling plays, even with this group of players, if that were his only job. Between offensive series, though, he's understandably focused on the defense instead of conferring with Eli and all the rest of the offensive guys. I don't think he has the intuition or keen analytical skills to call plays as a part-time job. He ought to delegate it to Shula -- heck, I'd trust Eli to do a better job of play calling all by himself.
Quote:
Shurmur was a heck of a game caller for the Vikes. He won OC of the year or whatever. He also had a multiple average QBs play pretty darn well under his watch . I wouldn't write him off yet.
Tate and Shep back and DJ at QB if we still stink on O by week 10 my thoughts might change.
I tend to think it was luck - everything fell into place for him - ofc I don't know. But for 2 straight years he under-utilizes one of the super great weapons we've seen in a long long time. Instead for example he chooses on key downs to "roll out Eli."
I fear he thinks keeping other team guessing is better than utilizing your best player a lot even if he doesn't have that good of a Qb and worse receiving core. He has the look so far of a true blockhead.
What an alarming stat. Very telling of Shurmur...