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In defense of Francessa

sb from NYT Forum : 9/16/2019 2:08 pm
Yeah, he’s a blowhard. And yeah he can be a tough listen. But his take on the Jones pick was dead on IMO.

If you want pick a QB with the #6 pick, fine.

If you want to keep Eli for one more season, fine.

But doing both makes no sense and is bad for the team.

What is the point of having a $20+ million QB on the roster if you’re going to bench him after a few games; what a waste of resources.
It just sounds nicer  
cjac : 9/16/2019 2:10 pm : link
coming from you
A lot of people thought that.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/16/2019 2:10 pm : link
Many on this board. Not just Francessa
RE: A lot of people thought that.  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/16/2019 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14580573 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
Many on this board. Not just Francessa
m

True, but this is what his tirade was about that got him blackballed by the Giants.
sb  
figgy2989 : 9/16/2019 2:15 pm : link
I think you are putting that lightly. Mike went off on everything NYG and called them a terrible franchise (among many other things), it wasn't him simply disagreeing with their approach.
RE: sb  
Justlurking : 9/16/2019 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14580587 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
I think you are putting that lightly. Mike went off on everything NYG and called them a terrible franchise (among many other things), it wasn't him simply disagreeing with their approach.


Well, looks like he was 100% right. They are a laughinstock
Question  
joeinpa : 9/16/2019 2:18 pm : link
If you passed on Qb this season, what guarantee do you have that you will be in such a good position as 6, to draft your quarterback next draft.

This is especially true if you think you are good enough with Eli to contend for the playoffs.

Their thinking in keeping Eli and drafting his successor was not flawed. Their belief that El still had the magic to lead a flawed team to the playoffs ala, 2011, was their mistake

Francesa s take is also flawed in that many teams have drafted the next guy while keeping the established starter.

There has been a false narrative in the Giants FO since 11 when Eli led a mediocre team to a championship.

They have been trying to retool mediocre and bad teams hoping for the same result since then
Not saying I agree with it  
lawguy9801 : 9/16/2019 2:18 pm : link
but the thought process, as I recall, was to repeat the Alex Smith/Patrick Mahomes transition in KC and have Jones learn for an entire year.
While he's correct on this point, he also picked the Giants  
GeofromNJ : 9/16/2019 2:20 pm : link
to beat the Bills. Said anyone who doesn't think the Giants would win is crazy. Expect him today to roast the Giants and say they're possibly the second worst team in the league.
If you listen to the owner  
Rudy5757 : 9/16/2019 2:22 pm : link
He didnt think Eli would sit on the bench this year. probably the only person who thought that.

As soon as we drafted DJ they should have had some exit plans for Eli. But ownership is under the impression that we were going to compete this year.

In any event it doesnt make sense to pay top $$ for a QB for 1 year when you have a replacement ready. Plus we have Tanney...lol. thank god for Tanney. nothing brightens a QB room like Tanney. We should give him a raise next season when he can possibly be the #2. Tanney is a #2.
The day they hired DG  
GiantsRage2007 : 9/16/2019 2:28 pm : link
He should have been allowed to totally tear it down. He wasted time & money with the OBJ re-sign, and bringing Eli back this yr. No idea why they seem to think they can rebuild and be competitive at the same time. It's a fools errand.
The problem with Francesa is not that he had this opinion.  
Mr. Bungle : 9/16/2019 2:29 pm : link
It's that he flew into a rage because he felt lied to by Gettleman. For some reason, Francesa took it personally that the Giants did something wit the #6 pick that he didn't expect or agree with. He's had a very childish personal vendetta with the Giants ever since.

I'm not sure that's worth defending.
RE: Question  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/16/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14580590 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Their thinking in keeping Eli and drafting his successor was not flawed. Their belief that El still had the magic to lead a flawed team to the playoffs ala, 2011, was their mistake

Francesa s take is also flawed in that many teams have drafted the next guy while keeping the established starter.


Respectfully I disagree. Not when you draft a guy #6 overall. Fair or not, the pressure to put in the new guy is too strong when a guy is that high a pick. When’s the last time a QB drafted as high or higher than Jones sat a year?

Also, the benefit of a young QB is that his contract is manageable. Sitting him a year wastes a year of that benefit.
Let's also  
TrueBlue56 : 9/16/2019 2:40 pm : link
Not forget what Francesa said about ballentine without any facts. Francesa went way over the top.
RE: Let's also  
Mr. Bungle : 9/16/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14580639 TrueBlue56 said:
Quote:
Not forget what Francesa said about ballentine without any facts. Francesa went way over the top.

And, of course, never apologized.
This seems to ignore some facts  
BillT : 9/16/2019 2:42 pm : link
When Eli was due his bonus they didn't have another QB. Once they gave him a bonus there wasn't as much financial incentive to release him. And having him there while Jones learned the ropes isn't that unusual for a team transitioning to a new rookie QB.
RE: RE: A lot of people thought that.  
jcn56 : 9/16/2019 2:44 pm : link
In comment 14580582 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 14580573 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


Many on this board. Not just Francessa

m

True, but this is what his tirade was about that got him blackballed by the Giants.


No, it was him insisting that the Giants misled him that got him blackballed. As if the Giants have some obligation to give MF details in advance of the draft.

That he's right about the Eli situation - well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
RE: Question  
HomerJones45 : 9/16/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14580590 joeinpa said:
Quote:
If you passed on Qb this season, what guarantee do you have that you will be in such a good position as 6, to draft your quarterback next draft.

This is especially true if you think you are good enough with Eli to contend for the playoffs.

Their thinking in keeping Eli and drafting his successor was not flawed. Their belief that El still had the magic to lead a flawed team to the playoffs ala, 2011, was their mistake

Francesa s take is also flawed in that many teams have drafted the next guy while keeping the established starter.

There has been a false narrative in the Giants FO since 11 when Eli led a mediocre team to a championship.

They have been trying to retool mediocre and bad teams hoping for the same result since then
I think they knew this was the last year of Manning's contract, they weren't going to extend him and they liked Jones so they drafted him thinking he would start next season.

The gamble is in spending the #6 pick on the guy. That says start potential but none of the professional prognosticators had that label on him, not that they are never mistaken. We are about to find out.
RE: RE: A lot of people thought that.  
BillKo : 9/16/2019 2:47 pm : link
In comment 14580582 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 14580573 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


Many on this board. Not just Francessa

m

True, but this is what his tirade was about that got him blackballed by the Giants.


Is it? Didn't Francessa called DG a liar, as if DG was supposed to tell Francessa exactly what the Giants were going to do? (in regards to pick a QB)
RE: RE: RE: A lot of people thought that.  
Reale01 : 9/16/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14580658 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14580582 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


In comment 14580573 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


Many on this board. Not just Francessa

m

True, but this is what his tirade was about that got him blackballed by the Giants.



No, it was him insisting that the Giants misled him that got him blackballed. As if the Giants have some obligation to give MF details in advance of the draft.

That he's right about the Eli situation - well, even a broken clock is right twice a day.


Also, he personally insulted Gettlemen and impugned his integrity as I recall.
RE: RE: Question  
John In CO : 9/16/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14580634 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 14580590 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Their thinking in keeping Eli and drafting his successor was not flawed. Their belief that El still had the magic to lead a flawed team to the playoffs ala, 2011, was their mistake

Francesa s take is also flawed in that many teams have drafted the next guy while keeping the established starter.



Respectfully I disagree. Not when you draft a guy #6 overall. Fair or not, the pressure to put in the new guy is too strong when a guy is that high a pick. When’s the last time a QB drafted as high or higher than Jones sat a year?

Also, the benefit of a young QB is that his contract is manageable. Sitting him a year wastes a year of that benefit.


I think that a question that needs to be asked is this: How many QB's drafted in the top ten who started immediately COULD HAVE benefited from a learning year as opposed to starting right away? Heck, Mahomes was, what, #10 overall, and he sat a year. If a guy is ready, then great, but if he isnt..... depends on the individual I guess. Some QB's might benefit in the long run from being thrown in before they are ready, others, it could stall or even ruin their careers.
Yeah, he called Gettleman a liar too, and clueless  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/16/2019 3:08 pm : link
Here’s a transcript of Francesa the Friday after the draft:

Quote:
The Giants in a word have become sad. They have become a sad, chronic, losing organization that has proved under now Gettleman's leadership that a) you can't believe a word that Gettleman says and b) that they don't have a plan. Because there is no plan. Because if you are going to listen to this man after last night's action...and this has nothing to do with Daniel Jones. He's an innocent bystander in this.

But if you are the guy running this team and is making the call and you believe that you are going to with the 6th pick in the draft select a franchise quarterback, which is what he has already called Daniel Jones then Daniel Jones should be playing from day one because that's what this league is about now. You should never ever had Eli Manning back on this team. There was no way it made any sense under any circumstances in terms of asset allocation, the way to rebuild this team or anything else to have Eli Manning and draft a quarterback at six. You either had Eli Manning here and you gave him a player at six that can help him win, because the Giants said they think they can win. That's out the window. Because at 6 and 17, they didn't even take players that I think will be highly productive. You're not going to see one unless things have gone completely bad in year one and the 17th pick, who I don't think is a bad player, but if he gets to be good he'll be Snacks. He's a 340-pound runstopper. You're not going to see him play on third down. He's not going to rush your quarterback. They did not fix that defense. They passed on a terrific player, one that Tom Coughlin jumped on even though he didn't need him and had his own holes to fill. He couldn't pass on what he called a superior player in Josh Allen.

Gettleman has proved that there isn't a distinct plan in place.

What I have come away with is that they don't have a plan. They sent veteran players away. They act like they're going to win now. With the most important asset they have with the sixth pick, where you have to as a bad team get a playmaker. They got a guy who is going to stand there with a clipboard next year.

Eli sees the handwritting on the wall and if you don't well pay attention. They don't have enough players to be good. They didn't get the pass rusher they needed. They have massive holes to fill. They sent away good players. I thought they had a plan. It's a bunch of garbage. If you're in love with the quarterback then put him out there, let him play, and you should have used your assets by getting rid of Eli and use that money to get more players because the Giants would like to be the new doormats of the league, which they have become over the last six years. The Giants now act like losers. They have no plan like losers. The people running the team in my estimation are losers. I don't believe a word Gettleman says. He lied to everybody about what he was doing. When teams start talking about next year in the middle of this year it's because they don't know what the hell they are doing. This group doesn't know what the hell they are doing.

They have become one of the laughingstocks in the NFL and have one of the worst records in the league in the last six years. Face it...the Giants have become football clowns. They're chronic losers now.

Audio - ( New Window )
'got him blackballed by the Giants'  
schabadoo : 9/16/2019 3:10 pm : link
This didn't happen. He was invited to camp.
The reasoning behind the decision did make sense  
ghost718 : 9/16/2019 3:24 pm : link
Not all rookie quarterbacks are thrown into the fire.There is sometimes a veteran quarterback there to hold the fort.The Giants felt that was more important than the money.

Now it hasn't worked out as planned,but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.Eli looks done,but on the flip side Dan Jones looked much better than anticipated.Regardless of some people dismissing pre season football.JPP flashed in the pre season,how did that work out.Collins also looked good.Saquon's first carry went for yardage,no problems there either.
...  
2cents : 9/16/2019 3:34 pm : link
i just dont get why there is no value in having eli has a mentor to jones. he paints in a way where it needs to be all or nothing and i dont understand it.
How does anyone  
justafan : 9/16/2019 4:05 pm : link
Listen to Francessa?
RE: 'got him blackballed by the Giants'  
jcn56 : 9/16/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14580710 schabadoo said:
Quote:
This didn't happen. He was invited to camp.


You know what he meant - that Gettleman refused to interview with MF.

That was pretty weak, even if Francesa was off his rocker with those comments.
I guess im just not that mad about paying Eli  
SteelGiant : 9/16/2019 4:31 pm : link
this is all hind sight. We had no idea if DJ was going to be ready. We had no idea is our line was improved enough to put a rookie QB behind it.

We are all acting like this now because DJ looked good in preseason and the line has improved. How would feel is DJ look like he needed some work or if the line was just getting our QB killed? It would be worth every penny for Eli to get crushed while we finish building our o-line right?
Francesa  
Ike#88 : 9/16/2019 9:21 pm : link
nailed it in that comment on the Friday after the draft. We have become patsies.
Right now if you read that transcript of Francesa  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/16/2019 10:19 pm : link
There's nothing inaccurate there. Just purely on taking a QB at 6 and paying a huge chunk of your cap to Eli is nonsensical.
Part of it is the approx 8 million you save after signing a veteran,  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/16/2019 10:22 pm : link
But I think the bigger part is just avoiding this clown shoe all together.
Jesus I just heard his show open today, he used the term waggle  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/17/2019 5:26 pm : link
I don't think anyone has used that term in ten years.
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