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Why a horrible season can accelerate NYG rebound

shocktheworld : 9/16/2019 2:19 pm
I'm just as tired of the Giants being shitty as the next fan (was awesome to see first hand in Dallas last week...NOT)

But let's take a breath here and look at how one more shitty season can really help us moving forward.

We need to play DJ, that is completely obvious to us all.

I love Eli and will always sing his praises, but his time is done here. Daniel Jones is the key to our next 10+ years (hopefully)...play him and let's confirm he is 100% THE guy. This works for us in two ways, first we see if he's got what it takes to succeed and carry us forward. But if for some reason he looks horrible, the losses will still mount and we will be in very good position for the QB rich draft next year.

So, by playing Jones, maybe we go 3-13.... but losses alone won't be on him. Our team still desperately needs an infusion of talent across the board. So Jones can play, have his mistakes/shitty games, but still prove that he's the franchise QB going forward.

Hopefully that's the case and we now have a very valuable draft status going into next season. Absolute WORST case scenario we take one of these elite QB's with the pick (there is a real chance we could have #1 overall, 2nd pick at least is very likely)

What I pray is DJ shows us he's legit and we now can trade next years high pick to a QB needy team for a kings ransom. $$$$

We've seen what teams are willing to give up for top QB's in the draft...sure would be nice to be on the receiving end of one of those deals, huh?

I hate wasted seasons, especially with Barkley in his prime years, but this team sucks currently, so one more shit year could put us in line to clean up next draft...AND with cap space to bring in key vet players as well.

Our turnaround could be accelerated for 2020 and beyond but one more shit season has to be stomached...yuck






There's few scenarios  
JonC : 9/16/2019 2:22 pm : link
where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.
Ah yes.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/16/2019 2:23 pm : link
Well we clearly got the having a horrible season part down for how many years.

Waiting for the rebound any minute now.
So we have Jones, now is it just 21 more years until we should be good  
Dinger : 9/16/2019 2:26 pm : link
If we need a 1st rounder in every spot thats the scenario, correct? I'm writting off Baker and Lawrence cause they are in the latter 1st round and we need to cave in order to get better picks.....

Sorry, sarcastic this morning. Giants.......
There is a .001%  
jvm52106 : 9/16/2019 2:33 pm : link
chance, minus injury, that we take a QB #1 next year.

Jones is the guy here. Shurmur might not be the coach but I bet a TON of coaches would like to have a shot at having Jones be their young stud QB.
I'm not saying  
shocktheworld : 9/16/2019 2:40 pm : link
We should pick a QB, but having a high pick will allow us to trade that asset to a QB needy team, and pick up a huge amount of draft capital. The cap space will let us secure vet difference makers and DG has shown he hits on his draft picks so he will have more in this scenario.

Basically, I'm just trying to look for positives since it looks like we are fucked again this year :(
.  
Kyle in NY : 9/16/2019 2:41 pm : link
The thought of being in a position to trade down with a QB hungry team is certainly intriguing. Can we trust DG to properly explore this option though? I have very little faith in the management structure of this organization right now. From Owner, to GM, to head coach it is a complete mess.
RE: There's few scenarios  
Sean : 9/16/2019 2:42 pm : link
In comment 14580603 JonC said:
Quote:
where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.


Coughlin is one thing. Don’t see that happening for an unproven HC.
this is why you maximize Jones' sample size in 2019  
bigbluehoya : 9/16/2019 2:44 pm : link
Give Jones 14 games to play, and let that be the coaching staff's test. If he shows improvement from Week 3 to Week 17, and offense is showing better energy / signs of life and convincing evidence that it's headed in the right direction, the coaching staff gets another year and you pass on QB for now.

If the offense remains listless and lifeless, the team continues to suck (to the tune of 0-4 wins), and you have yet another premium pick at the top of the draft, maybe it's time to truly do the full house-cleaning that they never did.

Bring in a truly (new) GM, let the GM pick the coach, and let that new tandem pick their QB. Perhaps Jones IS their QB and they want to use the high pick elsewhere. But the QB decision should come after the hiring and not be a pre-requisite interview question with only one right answer.

Get the correct people running and coaching the team, and let those people make QB decisions (and all other decisions) of their own accord and on their own tab.
RE: this is why you maximize Jones' sample size in 2019  
Scooter185 : 9/16/2019 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14580659 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Give Jones 14 games to play, and let that be the coaching staff's test. If he shows improvement from Week 3 to Week 17, and offense is showing better energy / signs of life and convincing evidence that it's headed in the right direction, the coaching staff gets another year and you pass on QB for now.

If the offense remains listless and lifeless, the team continues to suck (to the tune of 0-4 wins), and you have yet another premium pick at the top of the draft, maybe it's time to truly do the full house-cleaning that they never did.

Bring in a truly (new) GM, let the GM pick the coach, and let that new tandem pick their QB. Perhaps Jones IS their QB and they want to use the high pick elsewhere. But the QB decision should come after the hiring and not be a pre-requisite interview question with only one right answer.

Get the correct people running and coaching the team, and let those people make QB decisions (and all other decisions) of their own accord and on their own tab.


Well said
RE: There's few scenarios  
Thegratefulhead : 9/16/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14580603 JonC said:
Quote:
where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.
Only see 1 scenario. Jones gets extended playing time and does not look promising.
RE: RE: There's few scenarios  
lax counsel : 9/16/2019 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14580685 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14580603 JonC said:


Quote:


where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.

Only see 1 scenario. Jones gets extended playing time and does not look promising.


This is exactly the reason Jones needs to get an extended look. If he shows to be nothing more than a replacement level player, the Giants need to cut bait quickly. There should be a couple of good QB drafts coming up, potentially featuring Lawerence in 2021, though every qb needy team will be pulling a Dolphins in that draft.
5-11 is no longer a horrible Giant season  
arniefez : 9/16/2019 3:33 pm : link
3 wins or less might be the bar now.
They have nothing to lose by playing Jones  
DavidinBMNY : 9/16/2019 3:36 pm : link
And nothing to gain by playing Eli.

That's enough to pull the switch.

Then you add:
1) Jones gets experience
2) Eli might accept a trade and you get something small to help build the team
3) The team gets a new dimension with a mobile RPO QB who fits Shurmer's system.

It is such a no brainer, it is silly not to do so.
I'd rather start Jones once we have Tate (and Shepard) back.  
yatqb : 9/16/2019 5:13 pm : link
Give him a fighting chance. But I'm for making the shift by week 5.
RE: RE: There's few scenarios  
JonC : 9/16/2019 5:18 pm : link
In comment 14580685 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14580603 JonC said:


Quote:


where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.

Only see 1 scenario. Jones gets extended playing time and does not look promising.


It would have to be pretty bad to give up after one year. Mara would question their acumen etc.
Agree with the general sentiment here  
NoGainDayne : 9/16/2019 5:26 pm : link
either Jones shows promise (flashes elite skills, improves even in a non linear fashion) you give one more year to the front office. If he doesn’t it means we are headed for a top 3 pick in what people are saying is a top QB draft class. Seems like a great time to clean house.

This is what’s frustrating about being a Giants fan. IMO the worst case scenario is Eli plays we can to 5-6 wins and we don’t know what we have in Jones.

The Oline isn’t like David Carr’s. Rookies throw picks let him make some tough throws tell him that’s fine.

Hell I don’t even mind Jones having a bad season and us picking near the top of the draft and us getting a ransom because we want to trade to a team that wants a QB. I just don’t want to see him not play enough and the team making that call more blindly.

Wow this is a unique time in giants History  
Batenhorst : 9/16/2019 5:27 pm : link
Like some of you I've noted Jones's skills, poise, accuracy, force of will, mobility

Eliis lagging in most of these areas, he also just looks like a tired version of his younger self.

You had to feel sorry for Kurt Warner when even though having winning record for us he got permanently benched- only to go to a SB with AZ a few years later.

Many will take Eli's
eventual benching badly. Maybe Eli goes to another team and makes a last chance power drive. Who knows

But we need to get Jones on the field ASAP. The time for sentimentality has passed . this kid looked awful good in pre-season
its time to unwrap our gift and see if its real

If Eli keeps losing he will not only cost us this season but many other players will lose their jobs

My problem with Eli is his inability to convert 3rd downs especially in the other teams area of the field. He is really bad at this aspect of the game. The Eli we see now is the same guy we saw in pre-season
he just cannot move the ball when it counts.

There is something about Jones that its tough to pinpoint. Its likely is incredible quick release and accuracy. The Eli Giants have become impossible to watch. You are just waiting for the next disappointment.
RE: There's few scenarios  
FStubbs : 9/16/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14580603 JonC said:
Quote:
where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.


There is one scenario where it happens. The Giants finish with the worst record in the league, with Jones starting a number of games and showing nothing, and both DG and Shurmur are fired. A new administration would find Tua very hard to pass on.
RE: RE: There's few scenarios  
Scooter185 : 9/16/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14581237 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14580603 JonC said:


Quote:


where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.



There is one scenario where it happens. The Giants finish with the worst record in the league, with Jones starting a number of games and showing nothing, and both DG and Shurmur are fired. A new administration would find Tua very hard to pass on.


IMO that's the best scenario for the Giants to actually rebuild.
RE: RE: There's few scenarios  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/16/2019 11:10 pm : link
In comment 14581237 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 14580603 JonC said:


Quote:


where I see them drafting a QB high in 2020.

But, a difficult to swallow 2019 season will certainly provide more motivation for change. The problem is, it could be another coordinator sacrificed, eg Bettcher is out while Shurmur remains. Rinse and repeat the show we've seen before.



There is one scenario where it happens. The Giants finish with the worst record in the league, with Jones starting a number of games and showing nothing, and both DG and Shurmur are fired. A new administration would find Tua very hard to pass on.


Hard to feel warm and fuzzy about whoever else this ownership would hire. Its failure after failure.
I would have never thought it, but I could see Shurmur getting canned  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/16/2019 11:14 pm : link
if DJ isn't showing us positive stuff at the end of the season. The more starts he gets now, increases his chance of looking better in December.
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