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Myles Garrett just singled out Olivier Vernon as 1/3 leaders

NoGainDayne : 9/17/2019 12:19 am
just going to leave this here for discussion...
Pardon  
Breeze_94 : 9/17/2019 12:22 am : link
?
I guess 33.33 % of a leader is....  
Hades07 : 9/17/2019 12:24 am : link
...good? Idk
step away from the bong or bottle...  
Torrag : 9/17/2019 12:25 am : link
cuz that's some unintelligible stuff.
One of three leaders on the Browns  
NoGainDayne : 9/17/2019 12:34 am : link
not too hard to piece together but ok now you have it
He said the three leaders  
Beezer : 9/17/2019 12:35 am : link
are him, Olivier and Mayfield.

Whatís the issue?
.  
Banks : 9/17/2019 12:36 am : link
was it rumored that he was malcontent? I just thought he wasn't very productive for the contract he was given. Granted, he was injured quite a bit
RE: He said the three leaders  
OdellBeckhamJr : 9/17/2019 12:37 am : link
In comment 14581921 Beezer said:
Quote:
are him, Olivier and Mayfield.

Whatís the issue?


nothing's wrong with that just the titlegore by OP
maybe that's because he stays on the field 33% of the time?  
islander1 : 9/17/2019 12:43 am : link
.
RE: maybe that's because he stays on the field 33% of the time?  
madgiantscow009 : 9/17/2019 12:45 am : link
In comment 14581927 islander1 said:
Quote:
.


he gets 1 sack per 3 games.
He makes 1/3rd the amount of plays  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/17/2019 12:47 am : link
needed to be a leader.
RE: He said the three leaders  
NoGainDayne : 9/17/2019 12:49 am : link
In comment 14581921 Beezer said:
Quote:
are him, Olivier and Mayfield.

Whatís the issue?


I think it's interesting that our team which appears to need better leadership traded someone away that is so quickly identified as such a positive influence on another team
RE: RE: He said the three leaders  
Banks : 9/17/2019 12:56 am : link
In comment 14581933 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:

I think it's interesting that our team which appears to need better leadership traded someone away that is so quickly identified as such a positive influence on another team

While they ousted malcontents like Beckham and Pugh, I don't think Vernon was one. He was due like 16 million this year and only has 22 sacks in 3 seasons and is oft injured. I think that was more of a factor in his case
I just think for all the talk of how much culture change they needed  
NoGainDayne : 9/17/2019 1:02 am : link
trading a guy that is lauded on a leader for another team isn't a bad thing to point out.

We also ate $8M in dead money for the privilege of having him take those leadership skills elsewhere
Who cares? He was always hurt  
eli4life : 9/17/2019 4:59 am : link
And never did squat here. Maybe heíll do good there heís the type that needs a star on the other side to be effective obviously he wouldnít have that here
I was impressed when on the Sunday  
St. Jimmy : 9/17/2019 5:39 am : link
where they talked about Ogletree being another silent leader for the Giants
They have had a lot of success with silent leaders over the last 7 years.
Why just ďleave that out thereĒ?  
mfsd : 9/17/2019 6:28 am : link
How about take a position, instead of being a passive aggressive twit.

Do you think the Giants would be better off paying OV $15 million this year instead of Zeitler?

Personally I donít, I doubt OV lasts the season without getting hurt.

Apparently Bethea is one of our leaders this season - does that make him worth it?
Oh my goodness.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/17/2019 6:29 am : link
Did he play last night?  
section125 : 9/17/2019 6:31 am : link
All I saw was Garrett.

Now, the question is would you rather have Zeitler or Vernon? Vernon was ok when he played. He never was a difference maker. He was always a step late on important plays. He spent a lot of time injured.
Zeitler is a MASSIVE upgrade  
Ned In Atlanta : 9/17/2019 6:32 am : link
Over Jamon Brown/John Greco. I know the sky is falling is the only appropriate way to react to anything right now but itís possible for a trade to be mutually beneficial
RE: RE: maybe that's because he stays on the field 33% of the time?  
Jesse B : 9/17/2019 6:36 am : link
In comment 14581929 madgiantscow009 said:
Quote:
In comment 14581927 islander1 said:


Quote:


.



he gets 1 sack per 3 games.


Better then we get now I think giants sack leader last year had 5
Vernon injuries  
chuckydee9 : 9/17/2019 6:42 am : link
Happened because we had no depth behind him and JPP.. I remember in early 2016 there were major concerns over the % of plays and the overall # of plays both the DEs were playing.. it's always good to have someone sub in once in a while or have the offense actually stay on the field to give DL rest.. we had neither.. both OV and JPP were playing in a massive 96% of defensive plays.. plus our offense was not existent for many drives..
RE: RE: RE: maybe that's because he stays on the field 33% of the time?  
section125 : 9/17/2019 6:56 am : link
In comment 14581987 Jesse B said:
Quote:
In comment 14581929 madgiantscow009 said:


Quote:


In comment 14581927 islander1 said:


Quote:


.



he gets 1 sack per 3 games.



Better then we get now I think giants sack leader last year had 5


forget last year.
RE: Vernon injuries  
section125 : 9/17/2019 6:58 am : link
In comment 14581992 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Happened because we had no depth behind him and JPP.. I remember in early 2016 there were major concerns over the % of plays and the overall # of plays both the DEs were playing.. it's always good to have someone sub in once in a while or have the offense actually stay on the field to give DL rest.. we had neither.. both OV and JPP were playing in a massive 96% of defensive plays.. plus our offense was not existent for many drives..


Vernon was out from the start of the season last year, no?
RE: Vernon injuries  
hitdog42 : 9/17/2019 6:59 am : link
In comment 14581992 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Happened because we had no depth behind him and JPP.. I remember in early 2016 there were major concerns over the % of plays and the overall # of plays both the DEs were playing.. it's always good to have someone sub in once in a while or have the offense actually stay on the field to give DL rest.. we had neither.. both OV and JPP were playing in a massive 96% of defensive plays.. plus our offense was not existent for many drives..


shhhh 2016 didn't happen apparently...because the people we traded or didn't resign (coach included) led the team to their only respectable performance since 2012. It doesn't fit the narrative that they were the problem... it makes us feel better if we pretend it didn't exist.
RE: I just think for all the talk of how much culture change they needed  
DavidinBMNY : 9/17/2019 7:00 am : link
In comment 14581938 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
trading a guy that is lauded on a leader for another team isn't a bad thing to point out.

We also ate $8M in dead money for the privilege of having him take those leadership skills elsewhere
The Giants don't own up to building a piece of shit roster with substandard coaching that led to a locker room of discontent. It's a losing cycle for a losing franchise. Maybe they can turn the tide next season with enough of the roster rebuilt from the earlier mistakes. A lot of it is around the inability of the QB to overcome this and win so that may help if Jones can at least partially turn that around. Losing drives frustration. Win and everyones happy.
RE: RE: Vernon injuries  
chuckydee9 : 9/17/2019 7:15 am : link
In comment 14581998 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14581992 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


Happened because we had no depth behind him and JPP.. I remember in early 2016 there were major concerns over the % of plays and the overall # of plays both the DEs were playing.. it's always good to have someone sub in once in a while or have the offense actually stay on the field to give DL rest.. we had neither.. both OV and JPP were playing in a massive 96% of defensive plays.. plus our offense was not existent for many drives..



Vernon was out from the start of the season last year, no?


So? Last year happened after 2016.. once players are abused they are much more prone to injuries and much more prone to take off because of those injuries since they've been abused..
RE: RE: RE: Vernon injuries  
section125 : 9/17/2019 7:21 am : link
In comment 14582018 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14581998 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14581992 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


Happened because we had no depth behind him and JPP.. I remember in early 2016 there were major concerns over the % of plays and the overall # of plays both the DEs were playing.. it's always good to have someone sub in once in a while or have the offense actually stay on the field to give DL rest.. we had neither.. both OV and JPP were playing in a massive 96% of defensive plays.. plus our offense was not existent for many drives..



Vernon was out from the start of the season last year, no?



So? Last year happened after 2016.. once players are abused they are much more prone to injuries and much more prone to take off because of those injuries since they've been abused..


So, the 2nd season after was a result of 2016? Did you just forget 2017. He had two offseasons between 2016 and 2018.

Not saying OV and JPP weren't overplayed in 2016, but the sure played well that year. But you cannot dismiss two offseasons.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Vernon injuries  
chuckydee9 : 9/17/2019 8:29 am : link
In comment 14582020 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14582018 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


In comment 14581998 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14581992 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


Happened because we had no depth behind him and JPP.. I remember in early 2016 there were major concerns over the % of plays and the overall # of plays both the DEs were playing.. it's always good to have someone sub in once in a while or have the offense actually stay on the field to give DL rest.. we had neither.. both OV and JPP were playing in a massive 96% of defensive plays.. plus our offense was not existent for many drives..



Vernon was out from the start of the season last year, no?



So? Last year happened after 2016.. once players are abused they are much more prone to injuries and much more prone to take off because of those injuries since they've been abused..



So, the 2nd season after was a result of 2016? Did you just forget 2017. He had two offseasons between 2016 and 2018.

Not saying OV and JPP weren't overplayed in 2016, but the sure played well that year. But you cannot dismiss two offseasons.

He played through injuries both 2016 and 2017.. by 2018 any smart DE would have looked out for themselves..
he also has 3 tackles  
BillyM : 9/17/2019 9:01 am : link
in two games
I'm not surprised.  
Section331 : 9/17/2019 9:02 am : link
OV always seemed to be a good locker room guy, he just couldn't stay healthy enough to warrant his salary.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/17/2019 9:03 am : link
Vernon was always hurt, really didn't do all that much for us, and was good for 1 personal foul every couple games. Why exactly are we mad that he's gone again? We traded him for a pro bowl caliber RG. Take that and run with it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Vernon injuries  
section125 : 9/17/2019 9:08 am : link
In comment 14582072 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:

He played through injuries both 2016 and 2017.. by 2018 any smart DE would have looked out for themselves..


I may be wrong, but didn't he hurt his ankle in camp last year? It was very early. So this should not have been blamed on the previous season.

Not saying he should play injured, he should not. He would have been ineffective anyway. But looking out for himself at $15 mill per year is not exactly what you are looking for in a leader.
with all due respect...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/17/2019 9:10 am : link
does anyone here really miss Olivier Vernon?

I would have been happy to get a toaster in return for him.
OV couldn't stay on the field  
JonC : 9/17/2019 9:10 am : link
and wasn't the difference maker he was paid to be.

Based on those facts, and the fact they pulled the plug to begin a rebuild, it doesn't make sense to keep him around if he's not identified as core talent.

Some of you get too caught up on the season at hand. Some season you have to realize in advance (or be miserable when reality hits) that it's going to be a rough one with a lot of losing.
RE: OV couldn't stay on the field  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14582124 JonC said:
Quote:
and wasn't the difference maker he was paid to be.

Based on those facts, and the fact they pulled the plug to begin a rebuild, it doesn't make sense to keep him around if he's not identified as core talent.

Some of you get too caught up on the season at hand. Some season you have to realize in advance (or be miserable when reality hits) that it's going to be a rough one with a lot of losing.


But he's 1/3 of a leader!
he's a dirty player and  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 9/17/2019 9:20 am : link
should have been thrown out of the game last night.

2 late and unnecessary hits on the QB.
RE: he's a dirty player and  
Kyle in NY : 9/17/2019 9:27 am : link
In comment 14582150 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
should have been thrown out of the game last night.

2 late and unnecessary hits on the QB.


That was Myles Garrett
RE: RE: he's a dirty player and  
section125 : 9/17/2019 9:38 am : link
In comment 14582175 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14582150 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:


Quote:


should have been thrown out of the game last night.

2 late and unnecessary hits on the QB.



That was Myles Garrett


They were semi-late hits, true. (2 or 3 years ago and still in the NCAA they are not.) No problem they were called PFs. But holy crap is he good. He was a one many wrecking crew.
Yeah I didn't think the hits were that bad  
Kyle in NY : 9/17/2019 9:40 am : link
He's an absolute monster though. Second best DL in the game behind Donald. I'm looking forward to Rams/Browns this week
I think  
Bones : 9/17/2019 10:27 am : link
From the Giants perspective, reading between the lines the past couple years, they thought he could have played through some of his injuries. Thus management would not consider him a leader. From a young players perspective, this would not effect his leadership qualities, unless of course he is seen as not being willing to sacrifice for the team over the long run. Letís see how he is perceived by teammates 1 1/2 years from now. And to answer Ericís question, I do miss his pass rushing ability. At least when he played, he could be seen on the TV screen somewhere near the QB.
One of 3  
Big Blue '56 : 9/17/2019 10:28 am : link
until the inevitable injury
RE: One of 3  
jcn56 : 9/17/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14582510 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
until the inevitable injury


There's some irony in there, that he was traded for Zeitler, who promptly injured his shoulder. To his credit, he managed to play a decent game regardless, but if it lingers...
RE: OV couldn't stay on the field  
NoGainDayne : 9/17/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14582124 JonC said:
Quote:
and wasn't the difference maker he was paid to be.

Based on those facts, and the fact they pulled the plug to begin a rebuild, it doesn't make sense to keep him around if he's not identified as core talent.

Some of you get too caught up on the season at hand. Some season you have to realize in advance (or be miserable when reality hits) that it's going to be a rough one with a lot of losing.


I absolutely knew this was going to be a rough season and was one of the people advocating cutting Eli especially after trading OBJ.

The Vernon trade was talent / need wise one of the better moves we made IMO.

I donít think the point should be lost though that with this young team and what clearly appears to be substandard coaching as well as a GM harping on culture all the time, maybe more leadership on the field for our very young defense isnít a bad thing? Garrett seemed very happy to have him there and they know his injury history just like the rest of us do.
I get it  
JonC : 9/17/2019 10:53 am : link
but it's taking them two years to remove mistakes of the prior regime, to begin rebuilding the foundation, and to see if they've made good coaching hires to jumpstart them.

Keeping OV, for example, wouldn't have made much of a difference relative to what he was paid, imo.

This hurts and it will continue for awhile, is what I'm getting at.
RE: I get it  
section125 : 9/17/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14582733 JonC said:
Quote:
but it's taking them two years to remove mistakes of the prior regime, to begin rebuilding the foundation, and to see if they've made good coaching hires to jumpstart them.

Keeping OV, for example, wouldn't have made much of a difference relative to what he was paid, imo.

This hurts and it will continue for awhile, is what I'm getting at.


This is what I don't get from the others, it was predicted by a vast majority here that it would be two or three years to turn this mess around. So why after two games is it a shock that young guys(and some vets) are in disarray.

I still believe OV for Zeitler was the absolute correct move. OV was not a great pass rusher, decent yes, but definitely not great. Yeah he was a top pressure guy statistically(whatever pressure means), but he was always late and seemed to get some roughing the passer penalties in being late. Is he a good guy, IDK?
Very interesting..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/17/2019 11:40 am : link
that in one thread, paying Eli is considered a colossal mistake, but not paying Vernon is insinuated to be one too.

BBI is anything if not consistent...
RE: RE: I get it  
jcn56 : 9/17/2019 11:45 am : link
In comment 14582777 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14582733 JonC said:


Quote:


but it's taking them two years to remove mistakes of the prior regime, to begin rebuilding the foundation, and to see if they've made good coaching hires to jumpstart them.

Keeping OV, for example, wouldn't have made much of a difference relative to what he was paid, imo.

This hurts and it will continue for awhile, is what I'm getting at.



This is what I don't get from the others, it was predicted by a vast majority here that it would be two or three years to turn this mess around. So why after two games is it a shock that young guys(and some vets) are in disarray.

I still believe OV for Zeitler was the absolute correct move. OV was not a great pass rusher, decent yes, but definitely not great. Yeah he was a top pressure guy statistically(whatever pressure means), but he was always late and seemed to get some roughing the passer penalties in being late. Is he a good guy, IDK?


I disagree that the 'vast majority' felt it would take 3 years to turn this around.

This is the parity era NFL. It shouldn't take 3 years to turn anything around, even if it were a complete dumpster fire.

Unless you have a different opinion of what 'turning around' means. We're not talking about a Super Bowl. We're talking about respectability, competitive football. If you're building right - especially when you have some parts you can trade away for picks and have cap space available - you should be able to rebuild a roster fairly quickly.

So far, FA acquisitions have been disappointing. Drafted players, outside of Barkley and Hernandez, have been unimpressive. Not just the guys drafted this year, but last. And the coaching staff looks completely lost.

Even if you wanted to give these guys the token 3rd year - it doesn't seem like they're anywhere close to a turning point.
RE: RE: RE: I get it  
section125 : 9/17/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14582960 jcn56 said:
Quote:

I disagree that the 'vast majority' felt it would take 3 years to turn this around.

This is the parity era NFL. It shouldn't take 3 years to turn anything around, even if it were a complete dumpster fire.

Unless you have a different opinion of what 'turning around' means. We're not talking about a Super Bowl. We're talking about respectability, competitive football. If you're building right - especially when you have some parts you can trade away for picks and have cap space available - you should be able to rebuild a roster fairly quickly.

So far, FA acquisitions have been disappointing. Drafted players, outside of Barkley and Hernandez, have been unimpressive. Not just the guys drafted this year, but last. And the coaching staff looks completely lost.

Even if you wanted to give these guys the token 3rd year - it doesn't seem like they're anywhere close to a turning point.


Well I would say playoff competitive would be the requirement. And after what Reese and Ross did, three years is necessary. What was left as a base to build on.

Yes Stewart, Omameh were useless. The kid that took over for Omameh(Brown?) was decent. Bethea yep so far bad. Martin was mediocre..so I'd have to give the FA part to you, they are uninspiring.

I like the draft picks so far. Barkley, Hernandez, Hill and Carter are starting. Lawrence and Connelly are starting. Baker has had a rough start, but I'd bet that turns around. Ballentine is at least on special teams. Slayton is hurt, but compelling. Nobody knows if Jones is the real deal.

They did not have cap space and lost more to trades.

You can believe whatever you want. I'm not as jaded as you. I think there will be improvements.

But I bet the offense looks better with Jones in the game than it has with Eli. He'll get fooled a few times. He will make some bad reads but it was time.
Are we really debating this?  
NoGainDayne : 9/17/2019 12:26 pm : link
Paying Eli to start two games and further lower his public image is unequivocally a bad move.

On the other hand it is very much debatable. Especially in light of our horrendous and organized play on defense if losing a guy with leadership capabilities wasnít made worse because of ďcultureĒ aspects.

DG is the one who opened the door for this. As Iíve said Iím not even taking a position other than perhaps this wasnít as cut and dry as many in the DG fan club lauded.
Vernon was a good player here  
djm : 9/17/2019 12:31 pm : link
Fans hated him because of the contract. Move on. Heís always been a good player and at times great. When JPP and snacks were absorbing attention and the secondary was good Vernon made all pro. Not an accident.
He was a 7 or 8 sack player  
Rudy5757 : 9/17/2019 2:02 pm : link
before he got here, the Giants thought he was a 12-15 sack player but he was still a 7-8 sack player so we moved on. As far as his leadership who cares, he wasn't the future of the team and we got a building block player in return.

Nothing to hate about OV, he played hard but was not the big time player he was paid to be. He was our best pass rusher but thats not saying much. I hope he does well but I think that trade was a win for us.
1/3 leaders  
mrvax : 9/17/2019 2:04 pm : link
just means he's healthy for 1/3 of the games.
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