Loved his talent and the attention he brought but it’s a two edged sword. OBJ is about OBJ first, second and third. Doesn’t mean he’s not a good football player or teammate. He’s just not who you need on a rebuilding team.
..and I probably would not have traded him this year.
However, I can certainly make a case that getting rid of him was the right thing to do going forward. We'll have to see if he can stay healthy and can get back to being that dynamic player. And also not have any blowups.
He showed it on the first sideline catch. The 89 yarder was so badly played by the Jets, though.
Over the next three or so years, I think his play will start to diminish based on the physicality of the game he will endure.
He still wore his watch with a strange purple sleeve, purple and yellow glove, and purple socks which is kinda strange because those aren't Cleveland's colors.
The Jets benched their best CB.
He still couldn't resist taking shots at anybody and everybody after the game, including the Giants. You won. Be humble.
At the end of the day, we had him on the team for several years. We know what he is, and what he can do. Didn't really push the needle from winning to losing for us, so when you add in all the off field stuff he wasn't worth it for us. Will it for the Browns?
my other thoughts are there are a ton of people who make up false narratives that should probably own up to them... like "hes still a good player but is not explosive"-- "can't take a slant to the house like he used to"-- and other horse sh$t...
then there is the "you dont win with him"... where a lot of people try to pretend 2016 didnt exist because that makes the sh$t they talk about beckham or collins or anyone on that defense seem like less of a lie.
need immense talent somewhere on the field to win. OBJ was an immense talent. I was ok with the trade but I don't think we replaced his talent level anywhere else on the team.
The do was gone - no antics no boasting and no calling attention to himself. In short - who was that guy ? That is not the guy that played for the Giants. I hope he has matured and that he has learned to put his talents to better use to help his team win.
I thought he might have a lost a step last year after the injury- just a little of his explosiveness. After watching that slant, I was very wrong.
I don't like the guys antics but that's going to be a bad trade for the Giants. The timing of it with the cap hit and the return look really bad right now. The guy seems like an asshole but hes a true gambebreaker in the NFL... and those are hard to find.
Put it this way, if Jones shows promise this year, imagine having this offense with Beckham moving forward? Instead of Jabril Peppers and Dexter Lawrence? Much different narrative for this year and going forward....
than he was here? How has anything changed? Did anybody question OBJs ability? Did he magically morph in his time with the Browns?
He's still one of the best 3 WRs in the NFL. But, he did have improper equipment on that caused him to miss red zone plays in the 1st quarter. He did need to leave the field in the late 2nd quarter with cramps...somethings don't change.
OBJ is not on the Giants because he quit on the team the last 4 games, crapped on the Giants in his Lil Wayne interview after telling the team he wanted to play for the Giants.
Personally I love the guy, but he is definitely a me first guy. Hard worker, diligent and prepared, but a royal PIA.
We know the guy is a very good football player. We know he is very good at making one handed catches. This was against a DOA Jets team without (defensively) their best player and no corners to speak of.
The fact that his attempt on that onside kick is on game tape and we still have Giants fans crying over him is unbelievable to me.
He had plenty of these type of games as a Giant. His act grew tired. The Giants gave him a 90M contract and then he went on national TV and said he wasn't happy.
All it took was one game for you guys to get sucked back in.
Also listened to the first part of his interview with Randy Moss... Â
He had plenty of these type of games as a Giant. His act grew tired. The Giants gave him a 90M contract and then he went on national TV and said he wasn't happy.
All it took was one game for you guys to get sucked back in.
and on the 89yd TD, NYJ gambled on a single high safety who misread the play, took a bad angle, and the DB on Beckham was beat off the line. I would expect most quality NFL WRs to make a big gain off that coverage, too.
That Gettleman got less than market value. If Amari Cooper was worth a 1st rounder then Beckham was worth more than a 1st rounder and a disappointing former 1st rounder.
My thoughts are I expected to find people tap dancing Â
around this one just like they did at trade time, and here we go.
Remember 'addition by subtraction'? That Eli won't be forcing throws to OBJ, that the offense will be opened up? That spreading around the resources to have a few good players rather than one great one?
All fucking brilliant. 0-2 and swirling down the drain in the middle of September.
after being traded. In fact, he could easily have found himself in a better offense that would make his game stats even more impressive.
Meanwhile, how can you evaluate this trade now? It is just stupid. We are two games in and our team sucks regardless. Plus, part of the issue with OBJ has been his injuries. If he sits out the back half of the season... then how would you evaluate it?
Bottom line is this whole thing has to play out. Meanwhile, I am glad that we dont have that head case on the team anymore despite the occasional amazing performance.
of your good players is an odd way to try and get better. So far, the on field product is as bad as I've ever seen it and we've just say through a bunch of bad years.
I'd rather have kept the generational talent in Beckham. Winning teams like the Pats try and add talent like Gordon, Brown, rather than get rid of it. It says a lot about the Giants that they feel the need to trade away their talent rather than build a contender.
around this one just like they did at trade time, and here we go.
Remember 'addition by subtraction'? That Eli won't be forcing throws to OBJ, that the offense will be opened up? That spreading around the resources to have a few good players rather than one great one?
All fucking brilliant. 0-2 and swirling down the drain in the middle of September.
Well, that's not happening, but to be fair we are down to what? 3rd string wideouts or worse?
Regardless, Odell had games like that for us. It didn't push the needle at all. He was a major headache for the organization, and even 90 million couldn't make him happy. He is a malcontent and had to go.
And as somebody else said, go watch that onsides kick again.
After just watching his highlights, there's one thing I can say for Â
him. Some posters on bbi thought he might have lost a step due to his injuries. That doesn't seem to be the case. He still has great speed, great moves and great elevation.
His antics otherwise he is a game changer at the position like it or not..but character is key with giants now. They want "nice guys" moreso than talent it seems
Does anyone not recognize he's a tremendous talent who can do fantastic things on the field? The issue is a) can he keep his head on straight, behave himself, etc... so he's able to consistently play and not be a distraction, and (much more importantly imo) b) can he stay healthy enough to consistently stay on the field performing at a high level.
Nothing that happened last night was surprising, nor did it in any way answer the questions that led the Giants to trade him.
RE: I'd rather be 0-2 without OBJ than with him. Â
It’ll be yet another embarrassment to the NYG who will look like DG took it up the ass in that trade. Peppers and Lawrence both look like shit on what is shaping up as one of the 3-5 worst defenses in the league. Hell, most of the league thought Dave got railroaded anyway...
But he's never going to come without the baggage. Â
And so far they got their asses handed to them by Tennessee @ home and followed it up with a rather pedestrian victory over a Jets team with its backup and 3rd string QBs, no corners and best defensive player out.
Is anyone really impressed with Cleveland so far?
RE: my thoughts are he is not on the giants anymore Â
my other thoughts are there are a ton of people who make up false narratives that should probably own up to them... like "hes still a good player but is not explosive"-- "can't take a slant to the house like he used to"-- and other horse sh$t...
then there is the "you dont win with him"... where a lot of people try to pretend 2016 didnt exist because that makes the sh$t they talk about beckham or collins or anyone on that defense seem like less of a lie.
The problem with his performance in 2016 is that all the good got flushed down the shitter with his extremely stupid, selfish immature decision to fly to and party in South Beach with a short week to prepare for a playoff game in which he totally disappeared, dropped multiple passes including a would be TD (IIRC).
No one can tell me that an all night party with travel, etc., a day before a short week of preparation didn't have a negative effect. It may have been Thurs or Fri before he recovered from the party/lack of sleep, etc. And then the asshole runs around in the freezing cold without a shirt before the game... look at me!
He frequently did the type of loser shit that a winner like Jerry Rice never would've done. F*ck him. Enjoy Cleveland.
My thoughts are that the Giants paid him a lot of money to keep him here. He basically spit in their faces, couldn't even pretend to be happy here, and checks out when the team is losing.
Doesn't mean he's not a really good player. But the Giants were a bad team almost every year he was here aside from the one year we went on a defensive shopping spree and the defense carried the team most of the way.
RE: I'd rather be 0-2 without OBJ than with him. Â
After we jettison our home grown talent that deserved second contracts - We’re building a better locker room and culture it doesn’t matter what talent we have as long as we have culture - also BBI
And fuck Pat Shurmur while we are at it. He’s not a strong enough leader to handle great talent. He probably would have asked to trade LT!
After we jettison our home grown talent that deserved second contracts - We’re building a better locker room and culture it doesn’t matter what talent we have as long as we have culture - also BBI
And fuck Pat Shurmur while we are at it. He’s not a strong enough leader to handle great talent. He probably would have asked to trade LT!
These posts are so fucking stupid. "BBI" isn't one person.
The guy really seems like a tool. But it's the NFL, if you want great players on your team sometimes you have to put up with the bullshit (somewhat anyway).
I was for the trade mainly because I did not see him having that extra gear anymore after the broken ankle.... but he sure looked to have it back last night.
So yeah, right now? After two games of Jabrill Peppers sucking and watching OBj close to his old form? Yeah I'm definitely bummed.
I think any suggestion that he'd lost a step or was less explosive were maybe a bit premature. My thoughts remain mixed on the trade but what's done is done. He looks good though
But there's something off about that team as a whole. Nothing really to do with Odell. Baker looks like he's trying to do too much, the OL is poor, the inexperience of the coach has shown. What were they doing dropping him back to throw with two minutes left up 20 points? Only to have him get hit again. Some really good pass rushes coming up on the schedule. I think they might struggle
All these people in their feelings because OBJ had a good night. Â
Some of you are so reactive and emotional I dont know how you manage to navigate life.
OBJ is a great player. Thats no surprise. If you thought he was going to Cleveland and not going to have a good year barring injury, you were kidding yourself.
His talent wasnt the problem though. In the end, no matter what he says, he didnt want to be here anymore. He’s got his money and his buddies in Cleveland and apparently he still has his big mouth based on his comments from last night.
Time to move on.
Everybody saying the team is worse without Beckham.... Â
Giants should have found a way to keep a player that talented.
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
and remains a stupid trade. Incredibly stupid. If Jones turns out to be even 80% of the player he was this preseason, imagine having him, Barkley, Beckham and Engram with the solid OL we have now. We'd have the potential for a truly dynamic offense.
Instead we got a mediocre strong safety, a 2 down run stuffer and a 3rd round edge rusher.
Idiotic trade from and idiotic GM who didn't even try to get the best offer cause he felt like doing another deal with his buddy, and didn't want to insult him by shopping the offer.
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
Certainly helped, but without OBJ taking slants to the house all season our offense would have been absolute trash and we would have definitely not made the playoffs.
Wish the Giants had a team culture that could handle these strong personalities types. Belichick would never HAD to trade him for the good of the locker room.
Britt, since you keep harping on "moving the needle" Â
Giants should have found a way to keep a player that talented.
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
You don't give up on talent.
Even after all that, they paid him 90 million to stay.
4 weeks later he went on ESPN Sunday Morning with Lil Wayne sitting there and when asked directly if he wanted to be wanted to be a Giant he basically said he wasn't sure.
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Giants should have found a way to keep a player that talented.
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
You don't give up on talent.
Even after all that, they paid him 90 million to stay.
4 weeks later he went on ESPN Sunday Morning with Lil Wayne sitting there and when asked directly if he wanted to be wanted to be a Giant he basically said he wasn't sure.
Man are your feelings hurt? The organization has been a disaster and continues to be a disaster.
Seems to me the only one whose feelings are hurt is Beckham. Â
Why? Is he going to somehow play significantly better than he did last year? What exactly do you expect to see Barkley do differently that will turn the team's fortunes around?
RE: RE: RE: Everybody saying the team is worse without Beckham.... Â
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
Jets defense is not that bad. He looked good. I am still not completely sad we traded him, but he looked good last night. If he stays healthy for the rest of the year that will bum me out as well. lol
How the Eli dead enders get so defensive when you point out his awful record as a starting QB over the past 7 years, but then around in the same breath and say we won't miss Beckham because he couldn't single handedly turn this team around.
Why? Is he going to somehow play significantly better than he did last year? What exactly do you expect to see Barkley do differently that will turn the team's fortunes around?
LOL, you know he's not even gonna try to answer that one cause there is no answer.
How the Eli dead enders get so defensive when you point out his awful record as a starting QB over the past 7 years, but then around in the same breath and say we won't miss Beckham because he couldn't single handedly turn this team around.
Yea because Giants fans STILL falling all over themselves to defend and lament the loss of Odell Beckham are the smart ones here!
RE: RE: RE: RE: Everybody saying the team is worse without Beckham.... Â
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
And how many games were littered with Beckham highlights in losing efforts? The one handed catch against Dallas... we lost. The diving catch into the endzone against Washington...we lost. Countless other games in 2014/15... we lost.
How the Eli dead enders get so defensive when you point out his awful record as a starting QB over the past 7 years, but then around in the same breath and say we won't miss Beckham because he couldn't single handedly turn this team around.
Can't you want them both gone? They are both responsible for a terrible team pretty recently.
Why? Is he going to somehow play significantly better than he did last year? What exactly do you expect to see Barkley do differently that will turn the team's fortunes around?
LOL, you know he's not even gonna try to answer that one cause there is no answer.
What's your problem asshole?
RE: RE: RE: Everybody saying the team is worse without Beckham.... Â
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
arc, come on. There was no bigger defender of the guy than yourself. I'm pretty sure you made similar arguments about willing the team many times through the years when debating with Terps. Of course it's ok to change your mind. I have too to some extent. But to go so far the other way with the now sarcastic mocking of those still defending Beckham...well I just think it rings a bit hollow
Cons
-The injuries really scared me
-He did quit late season once all was lost
Pros
-Immense talent
-He was a max effort guy
-Barkley said that no one blocked harder for him
-He wanted to win
The part that trips me up was that he was trying to tell the world what mostly all now see: Eli was holding the team back. He did it in a stupid way, yes. The method, the interview - very dumb, millennial, and ill advised. But he did it because he wanted to win. He did it after he got paid, because doing so before would be a bad financial decision.
wanting them both gone is at least not hypocritical. But to say you can't hold our shitty record against the QB but you can hold it against or top WR is a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.
My thoughts are that the Giants paid him a lot of money to keep him here. He basically spit in their faces, couldn't even pretend to be happy here, and checks out when the team is losing.
Doesn't mean he's not a really good player. But the Giants were a bad team almost every year he was here aside from the one year we went on a defensive shopping spree and the defense carried the team most of the way.
And you guys aren't sucked in by the usual NYG method of trashing a player they got rid of- especially when they have made a bad deal? Jesus Christ, they did it with Tarkenton who went on to qb three teams to the SB and is now in the HOF. This is an old dodge this team has used for 60 years, and fans get sucked in over and over again.
Yeah, he's an odd duck; so what,if you want to win, you've got to find a way to incorporate them on the team when they are as talented as this kid or you can root for outstanding talents like Benny Fowler and Cody Corpse. You think there weren't a few oddballs on the 60's Packers or the 70's Steelers?
My thoughts are its early. All any team has to do to OBJ to throw him off his game is trash talk him and hit him hard. if he makes it passed week 10 without injury I'd be surprised. If they don't have some kind of controversy in Cleveland involving him this year I'll be shocked. Its early.
He had plenty of these type of games as a Giant. His act grew tired. The Giants gave him a 90M contract and then he went on national TV and said he wasn't happy.
I get it.
But I think it's just glossed over and accepted that Jints Central did a good job managing OBJ's personality.
I'm not sure they did. This organization is so set in it's ways, very old school IBM, that it's not hard to imagine they couldn't adjust and figure out how to deal with OBJ.
Gettleman is 70. What is Shurmur's cred? What is Bettcher's cred? Shula's? Eli doesn't really lead in any outward fashion. So where were the resources at Jints Central to help a guy like OBJ?
I'm not absolving OBJ of his antics. But I do think the marriage break-up was more of a two way street than most realize...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Everybody saying the team is worse without Beckham.... Â
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
And how many games were littered with Beckham highlights in losing efforts? The one handed catch against Dallas... we lost. The diving catch into the endzone against Washington...we lost. Countless other games in 2014/15... we lost.
So still playing at a top level effort while your team is losing is a negative now? It’s his fault the entire team sucked around him?
RE: RE: I feel EXACTLY the same as I always have Â
Giants should have found a way to keep a player that talented.
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
You don't give up on talent.
Even after all that, they paid him 90 million to stay.
4 weeks later he went on ESPN Sunday Morning with Lil Wayne sitting there and when asked directly if he wanted to be wanted to be a Giant he basically said he wasn't sure.
He says stupid stuff. So what?
He goes on Twitter all the time and says more stupid stuff. Why does anyone pay attention or even care?
It would be awesome if all the players acted like pros 100% of the time like Eli and Barkley, but you don't get rid of superstars just because he makes stupid comments.
And your take that the Giants would still be 0-2 without OBJ is just dumb. No one knows what their record would be with OBJ these first two games, but there are other games to play and other seasons as well.
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
And how many games were littered with Beckham highlights in losing efforts? The one handed catch against Dallas... we lost. The diving catch into the endzone against Washington...we lost. Countless other games in 2014/15... we lost.
So still playing at a top level effort while your team is losing is a negative now? It’s his fault the entire team sucked around him?
Who said it was a negative? The point is we were a bad football team with him the same way we are without him.
They tried to keep him. They made him the highest paid WR in the sport. He didn't want to be here. Such is life.
Why? Is he going to somehow play significantly better than he did last year? What exactly do you expect to see Barkley do differently that will turn the team's fortunes around?
LOL, you know he's not even gonna try to answer that one cause there is no answer.
What's your problem asshole?
U mad bro? Go ahead and answer Greg's question: over the next 4 years what can Barkley do differently that will take us from a 5 win team to an 11 win team?
I didn't expect his ability to decline so nothing has changed my mind about the kind of player he is. However I don't think last night should be used as an "I told you so". I think his final stats are a bit misleading. He had that ~35 yard catch on the opening drive and then about 20 yards until the 89 yarder when the Browns were expected to run out the clock with 2-3 minutes left in the 3rd. For most of the game he was invisible, but maybe that's because Mayfield looked like shit for most of it. His final stats are also a bit misleading
I didn't expect his ability to decline so nothing has changed my mind about the kind of player he is. However I don't think last night should be used as an "I told you so". I think his final stats are a bit misleading. He had that ~35 yard catch on the opening drive and then about 20 yards until the 89 yarder when the Browns were expected to run out the clock with 2-3 minutes left in the 3rd. For most of the game he was invisible, but maybe that's because Mayfield looked like shit for most of it. His final stats are also a bit misleading
LOL. Yeah except for the 89 yrd game-sealing TD, OBJ was invisible. As opposed to all the Giants' receivers who were invisible the whole game, minus the 89 yrd TD.
but was hopeful we could turn the draft picks into something - jury is still out, and was hopeful Peppers was an answer at Safety, that doesn't look good at the moment. I still think they should have cut Eli back in March and keep OBJ. He's on a talent level similar to LT - and LT was certainly no saint. As a fan, I want the team to win, and for the most part, OBJ is not a bad guy (see Big Ben, A Brown). The trade is still bad as we sit here today.
They look like they'll lose a lot of games without him.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
OBJ is a great player, he is going to have great games. Put the game into perspective, it was against the Jets who started their backup QB and then went to the 3rd string QB. The 89 yard catch and run was a blown coverage when the game was over. He had a great catch and a solid performance up until the 89 yarder. You can't judge a trade on one game, we got back picks so they need time to develop as well. If you look at it like it was Peppers for OBJ, yes they got the better of us but we have 2 other young players that have shown promise.
I liked that we traded him away. DJ needs a fresh start and he can be the leader of this team. I like the talent of OBJ but cant stand the antics. Yes the players all love OBJ but he is not a guy you want leading your team.
They look like they'll lose a lot of games without him.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
he actually carried a awful offense to the playoffs with the help of a great defense... and good end of game coaching... things many pretend didnt happen because the bias is to dislike and sh$t on anyone that has left the dumpster fire to feel better about people current running and playing for the dumpster fire
They look like they'll lose a lot of games without him.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
he actually carried a awful offense to the playoffs with the help of a great defense... and good end of game coaching... things many pretend didnt happen because the bias is to dislike and sh$t on anyone that has left the dumpster fire to feel better about people current running and playing for the dumpster fire
And proceeded to embarrass himself and play like dogshit in that playoff game.
Great argument. What a hero he was for the Giants.
GREAT player that we could certainly use right now. Â
They look like they'll lose a lot of games without him.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
he actually carried a awful offense to the playoffs with the help of a great defense... and good end of game coaching... things many pretend didnt happen because the bias is to dislike and sh$t on anyone that has left the dumpster fire to feel better about people current running and playing for the dumpster fire
And proceeded to embarrass himself and play like dogshit in that playoff game.
Great argument. What a hero he was for the Giants.
who said he was a hero? a lot of guys played like sh$t in a first playoff game. it does not mean they are losing players. whether they are on a boat or in their basement playing video games- who cares- he played terrible.
the argument is that it is pathetic to selectively forget 2016 as happening on the "win side"--- and then sit here and quote the 2017 record as part of his losing contribution when he was hurt all year- exposing even more the dumpster fire that we became.
Does anyone not recognize he's a tremendous talent who can do fantastic things on the field? The issue is a) can he keep his head on straight, behave himself, etc... so he's able to consistently play and not be a distraction, and (much more importantly imo) b) can he stay healthy enough to consistently stay on the field performing at a high level.
Nothing that happened last night was surprising, nor did it in any way answer the questions that led the Giants to trade him.
Reality set in on the return flight.
Reality set in on the return flight.
I’m sure he’s doing just fine.
This trade is trending to be just OBJ for Lawrence and a ton of dead cap.
However, I can certainly make a case that getting rid of him was the right thing to do going forward. We'll have to see if he can stay healthy and can get back to being that dynamic player. And also not have any blowups.
He showed it on the first sideline catch. The 89 yarder was so badly played by the Jets, though.
Over the next three or so years, I think his play will start to diminish based on the physicality of the game he will endure.
The Jets benched their best CB.
He still couldn't resist taking shots at anybody and everybody after the game, including the Giants. You won. Be humble.
At the end of the day, we had him on the team for several years. We know what he is, and what he can do. Didn't really push the needle from winning to losing for us, so when you add in all the off field stuff he wasn't worth it for us. Will it for the Browns?
my other thoughts are there are a ton of people who make up false narratives that should probably own up to them... like "hes still a good player but is not explosive"-- "can't take a slant to the house like he used to"-- and other horse sh$t...
then there is the "you dont win with him"... where a lot of people try to pretend 2016 didnt exist because that makes the sh$t they talk about beckham or collins or anyone on that defense seem like less of a lie.
I don't like the guys antics but that's going to be a bad trade for the Giants. The timing of it with the cap hit and the return look really bad right now. The guy seems like an asshole but hes a true gambebreaker in the NFL... and those are hard to find.
Put it this way, if Jones shows promise this year, imagine having this offense with Beckham moving forward? Instead of Jabril Peppers and Dexter Lawrence? Much different narrative for this year and going forward....
He's still one of the best 3 WRs in the NFL. But, he did have improper equipment on that caused him to miss red zone plays in the 1st quarter. He did need to leave the field in the late 2nd quarter with cramps...somethings don't change.
OBJ is not on the Giants because he quit on the team the last 4 games, crapped on the Giants in his Lil Wayne interview after telling the team he wanted to play for the Giants.
Personally I love the guy, but he is definitely a me first guy. Hard worker, diligent and prepared, but a royal PIA.
instead with Eli Manning who is running this franchise into the ground
Imagine DJ throwing to OBJ...
Who wants to win football games when you have all this culture
We know the guy is a very good football player. We know he is very good at making one handed catches. This was against a DOA Jets team without (defensively) their best player and no corners to speak of.
The fact that his attempt on that onside kick is on game tape and we still have Giants fans crying over him is unbelievable to me.
He is a loser.
All it took was one game for you guys to get sucked back in.
Not sure what is going on his head, but that's OBJ for ya.
All it took was one game for you guys to get sucked back in.
This pretty much summs it up.
Trading him to pay Eli $17M the following season and pretend like you can still contend was the height of stupidity.
Still an immature me guy.
Remember 'addition by subtraction'? That Eli won't be forcing throws to OBJ, that the offense will be opened up? That spreading around the resources to have a few good players rather than one great one?
All fucking brilliant. 0-2 and swirling down the drain in the middle of September.
What level of play can we expect going forward as the wear and tear continues to add up?
Meanwhile, how can you evaluate this trade now? It is just stupid. We are two games in and our team sucks regardless. Plus, part of the issue with OBJ has been his injuries. If he sits out the back half of the season... then how would you evaluate it?
Bottom line is this whole thing has to play out. Meanwhile, I am glad that we dont have that head case on the team anymore despite the occasional amazing performance.
I'd rather have kept the generational talent in Beckham. Winning teams like the Pats try and add talent like Gordon, Brown, rather than get rid of it. It says a lot about the Giants that they feel the need to trade away their talent rather than build a contender.
We will see weekly OBJ threads that will have his supporters and detractors crowing after every good or bad game.
Remember 'addition by subtraction'? That Eli won't be forcing throws to OBJ, that the offense will be opened up? That spreading around the resources to have a few good players rather than one great one?
All fucking brilliant. 0-2 and swirling down the drain in the middle of September.
Well, that's not happening, but to be fair we are down to what? 3rd string wideouts or worse?
Regardless, Odell had games like that for us. It didn't push the needle at all. He was a major headache for the organization, and even 90 million couldn't make him happy. He is a malcontent and had to go.
And as somebody else said, go watch that onsides kick again.
when i saw him crying on the sideline when they were changing the shield i can tell you i was happy he's gone
Nothing that happened last night was surprising, nor did it in any way answer the questions that led the Giants to trade him.
I'd much rather have Beckham than Cody Latimer, is that debatable?
And its too early to judge the trade. Let's watch Peppers, Lawrence and Ximines for at least 1 year before giving a grade. Then let's grade year 2.
He sh-t all over them and they shipped him out.
The end.
Is anyone really impressed with Cleveland so far?
my other thoughts are there are a ton of people who make up false narratives that should probably own up to them... like "hes still a good player but is not explosive"-- "can't take a slant to the house like he used to"-- and other horse sh$t...
then there is the "you dont win with him"... where a lot of people try to pretend 2016 didnt exist because that makes the sh$t they talk about beckham or collins or anyone on that defense seem like less of a lie.
The problem with his performance in 2016 is that all the good got flushed down the shitter with his extremely stupid, selfish immature decision to fly to and party in South Beach with a short week to prepare for a playoff game in which he totally disappeared, dropped multiple passes including a would be TD (IIRC).
No one can tell me that an all night party with travel, etc., a day before a short week of preparation didn't have a negative effect. It may have been Thurs or Fri before he recovered from the party/lack of sleep, etc. And then the asshole runs around in the freezing cold without a shirt before the game... look at me!
He frequently did the type of loser shit that a winner like Jerry Rice never would've done. F*ck him. Enjoy Cleveland.
Bad trade then, even worse trade now with how Peppers has looked.
This response pretty spectacularly misses Britt's point. Completely. No easy feat.
Doesn't mean he's not a really good player. But the Giants were a bad team almost every year he was here aside from the one year we went on a defensive shopping spree and the defense carried the team most of the way.
Yes
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Does anybody think he would have made a difference these past two weeks for us, overall?
The Bills game absolutely had the potential to turn into a W with Beckham on the Giants. 100%.
Especially if you had used Eli's cap room to improve the pass rush.
Rams
Ravens
49ers
Seahawks
Patriots
lets see what their record is after the next 5 games and see if that locker room is going to implode...
After we jettison our home grown talent that deserved second contracts - We’re building a better locker room and culture it doesn’t matter what talent we have as long as we have culture - also BBI
And fuck Pat Shurmur while we are at it. He’s not a strong enough leader to handle great talent. He probably would have asked to trade LT!
How is that not worse than a lot of other banable actions? That's a serious allegation to just be thrown around haphazardly...
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Does anybody think he would have made a difference these past two weeks for us, overall?
Yes
Absolutely. You can win in the modern NFL with an exceptional offense. Look at the Chiefs! Now we are just crappy on both sides of the ball.
After we jettison our home grown talent that deserved second contracts - We’re building a better locker room and culture it doesn’t matter what talent we have as long as we have culture - also BBI
And fuck Pat Shurmur while we are at it. He’s not a strong enough leader to handle great talent. He probably would have asked to trade LT!
These posts are so fucking stupid. "BBI" isn't one person.
He didn't get traded and net all that he did because he wasn't talented.
He wasn't traded because of his talent.
OBJ this year on this team would be a disaster. He'd be sulking every single game with the defense killing us.
He will be awesome for Browns, a team further along than us in all facets of the game.
I was for the trade mainly because I did not see him having that extra gear anymore after the broken ankle.... but he sure looked to have it back last night.
So yeah, right now? After two games of Jabrill Peppers sucking and watching OBj close to his old form? Yeah I'm definitely bummed.
Yep. and anyone who thinks chemistry is so magical or Odell is a bad egg is just plain wrong. Never quit on talent.
Never saw a team trade all its talent away as a way to "re-build". The Giants are essentially an expansion team at the moment.
But there's something off about that team as a whole. Nothing really to do with Odell. Baker looks like he's trying to do too much, the OL is poor, the inexperience of the coach has shown. What were they doing dropping him back to throw with two minutes left up 20 points? Only to have him get hit again. Some really good pass rushes coming up on the schedule. I think they might struggle
OBJ is a great player. Thats no surprise. If you thought he was going to Cleveland and not going to have a good year barring injury, you were kidding yourself.
His talent wasnt the problem though. In the end, no matter what he says, he didnt want to be here anymore. He’s got his money and his buddies in Cleveland and apparently he still has his big mouth based on his comments from last night.
Time to move on.
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
^this
Wow, I wish I had the ability to tell the future the way some of you can!
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
You could also make an argument that the 200 million we spent on defense helped, as well.
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
Then he shat his pants when he got there.
Big deal!
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
You don't give up on talent.
Instead we got a mediocre strong safety, a 2 down run stuffer and a 3rd round edge rusher.
Idiotic trade from and idiotic GM who didn't even try to get the best offer cause he felt like doing another deal with his buddy, and didn't want to insult him by shopping the offer.
Hey, but at least we still got Eli.
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
Certainly helped, but without OBJ taking slants to the house all season our offense would have been absolute trash and we would have definitely not made the playoffs.
What is less defensible is signing him to an extension and THEN trading him. All that dead cap money was an enormous waste of resources.
Wish the Giants had a team culture that could handle these strong personalities types. Belichick would never HAD to trade him for the good of the locker room.
See how silly this exercise is?
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
You don't give up on talent.
Even after all that, they paid him 90 million to stay.
4 weeks later he went on ESPN Sunday Morning with Lil Wayne sitting there and when asked directly if he wanted to be wanted to be a Giant he basically said he wasn't sure.
See how silly this exercise is?
Barkley has only played one year. Let's give him the five Beckham had to do it and see what he does.
Silly, right?
See how silly this exercise is?
Wake us up when Barkley quits on the fucking team.
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
And you predicted that Eli would actually play better without the need to throw OBJ the ball, and we'd go 10-6.
So settle down here chief and try a slice of humble pie.
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Are you aware that Phil Simms and Harry Carson both tried repeatedly to force trades to other teams prior to 1985?
Quote:
Giants should have found a way to keep a player that talented.
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
You don't give up on talent.
Even after all that, they paid him 90 million to stay.
4 weeks later he went on ESPN Sunday Morning with Lil Wayne sitting there and when asked directly if he wanted to be wanted to be a Giant he basically said he wasn't sure.
Man are your feelings hurt? The organization has been a disaster and continues to be a disaster.
But...Beckham...
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In comment 14582274 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
Jets defense is not that bad. He looked good. I am still not completely sad we traded him, but he looked good last night. If he stays healthy for the rest of the year that will bum me out as well. lol
LOL, you know he's not even gonna try to answer that one cause there is no answer.
Yea because Giants fans STILL falling all over themselves to defend and lament the loss of Odell Beckham are the smart ones here!
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In comment 14582286 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14582274 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
And how many games were littered with Beckham highlights in losing efforts? The one handed catch against Dallas... we lost. The diving catch into the endzone against Washington...we lost. Countless other games in 2014/15... we lost.
Can't you want them both gone? They are both responsible for a terrible team pretty recently.
Quote:
Why? Is he going to somehow play significantly better than he did last year? What exactly do you expect to see Barkley do differently that will turn the team's fortunes around?
LOL, you know he's not even gonna try to answer that one cause there is no answer.
What's your problem asshole?
Quote:
In comment 14582274 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
arc, come on. There was no bigger defender of the guy than yourself. I'm pretty sure you made similar arguments about willing the team many times through the years when debating with Terps. Of course it's ok to change your mind. I have too to some extent. But to go so far the other way with the now sarcastic mocking of those still defending Beckham...well I just think it rings a bit hollow
-The injuries really scared me
-He did quit late season once all was lost
Pros
-Immense talent
-He was a max effort guy
-Barkley said that no one blocked harder for him
-He wanted to win
The part that trips me up was that he was trying to tell the world what mostly all now see: Eli was holding the team back. He did it in a stupid way, yes. The method, the interview - very dumb, millennial, and ill advised. But he did it because he wanted to win. He did it after he got paid, because doing so before would be a bad financial decision.
Doesn't mean he's not a really good player. But the Giants were a bad team almost every year he was here aside from the one year we went on a defensive shopping spree and the defense carried the team most of the way.
Yeah, he's an odd duck; so what,if you want to win, you've got to find a way to incorporate them on the team when they are as talented as this kid or you can root for outstanding talents like Benny Fowler and Cody Corpse. You think there weren't a few oddballs on the 60's Packers or the 70's Steelers?
RE: the wisdom of the trade - time will tell
I get it.
But I think it's just glossed over and accepted that Jints Central did a good job managing OBJ's personality.
I'm not sure they did. This organization is so set in it's ways, very old school IBM, that it's not hard to imagine they couldn't adjust and figure out how to deal with OBJ.
Gettleman is 70. What is Shurmur's cred? What is Bettcher's cred? Shula's? Eli doesn't really lead in any outward fashion. So where were the resources at Jints Central to help a guy like OBJ?
I'm not absolving OBJ of his antics. But I do think the marriage break-up was more of a two way street than most realize...
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In comment 14582318 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14582286 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14582274 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
And how many games were littered with Beckham highlights in losing efforts? The one handed catch against Dallas... we lost. The diving catch into the endzone against Washington...we lost. Countless other games in 2014/15... we lost.
So still playing at a top level effort while your team is losing is a negative now? It’s his fault the entire team sucked around him?
Quote:
Giants should have found a way to keep a player that talented.
OBJ is certainly a prima donna but he works hard, wants to win and his teammates loved him. (Except maybe for Eli :>)
That's why you keep him.
Some of the antics were annoying and some were just weird (kicker net hugging) but I don't think the dog pissing political statement or saying mean things about Eli were such a big threat to the "culture" that he had to be traded.
Giants had (arguably) their all-time best WR and RB on the team at the same time as weapons for a young QB to work with and they blew it.
As long as your superstars are playing hard you give them a little leeway if necessary. You gon't trade him.
DG probably would have traded that troublemaker LT too. Parcells and Young found a way to work with him because as DG put it...
You don't give up on talent.
Even after all that, they paid him 90 million to stay.
4 weeks later he went on ESPN Sunday Morning with Lil Wayne sitting there and when asked directly if he wanted to be wanted to be a Giant he basically said he wasn't sure.
He says stupid stuff. So what?
He goes on Twitter all the time and says more stupid stuff. Why does anyone pay attention or even care?
It would be awesome if all the players acted like pros 100% of the time like Eli and Barkley, but you don't get rid of superstars just because he makes stupid comments.
And your take that the Giants would still be 0-2 without OBJ is just dumb. No one knows what their record would be with OBJ these first two games, but there are other games to play and other seasons as well.
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In comment 14582337 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14582318 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14582286 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14582274 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Are we really?
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
2016: 11-5
2017: 3-13
2018: 5-11
The one winning season we had, you could make an argument that he literally willed that team to the playoffs.
The top 5 defense we fielded that got several stops late in games probably had a little more to do with it than some fictitious narrative about Beckham "willing" the team to win all on his own...but who needs facts.
Take away OBJs stats from that offense and do we even score enough to have a lead and win games with that great defense. The Baltimore game sticks out as one we would have lost just off the top of my head.
And how many games were littered with Beckham highlights in losing efforts? The one handed catch against Dallas... we lost. The diving catch into the endzone against Washington...we lost. Countless other games in 2014/15... we lost.
So still playing at a top level effort while your team is losing is a negative now? It’s his fault the entire team sucked around him?
Who said it was a negative? The point is we were a bad football team with him the same way we are without him.
They tried to keep him. They made him the highest paid WR in the sport. He didn't want to be here. Such is life.
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In comment 14582336 Greg from LI said:
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Why? Is he going to somehow play significantly better than he did last year? What exactly do you expect to see Barkley do differently that will turn the team's fortunes around?
LOL, you know he's not even gonna try to answer that one cause there is no answer.
What's your problem asshole?
U mad bro? Go ahead and answer Greg's question: over the next 4 years what can Barkley do differently that will take us from a 5 win team to an 11 win team?
Answer the question....
LOL. Yeah except for the 89 yrd game-sealing TD, OBJ was invisible. As opposed to all the Giants' receivers who were invisible the whole game, minus the 89 yrd TD.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
I liked that we traded him away. DJ needs a fresh start and he can be the leader of this team. I like the talent of OBJ but cant stand the antics. Yes the players all love OBJ but he is not a guy you want leading your team.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
he actually carried a awful offense to the playoffs with the help of a great defense... and good end of game coaching... things many pretend didnt happen because the bias is to dislike and sh$t on anyone that has left the dumpster fire to feel better about people current running and playing for the dumpster fire
Jets couldn't move the ball at all and when they did they committed a penalty.
So, looks good in stat book, but Cleveland wins that game with out OBJ playing.
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They look like they'll lose a lot of games without him.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
he actually carried a awful offense to the playoffs with the help of a great defense... and good end of game coaching... things many pretend didnt happen because the bias is to dislike and sh$t on anyone that has left the dumpster fire to feel better about people current running and playing for the dumpster fire
And proceeded to embarrass himself and play like dogshit in that playoff game.
Great argument. What a hero he was for the Giants.
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In comment 14582998 Mr. Bungle said:
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They look like they'll lose a lot of games without him.
He wasn't a difference-maker in terms of winning and losing, so we should all probably just give it a rest already.
Besides, he faced a completely dead Jets team last night. There are still 14 more games on the Browns calendar to evaluate him in. And almost all of them are against much better opponents.
he actually carried a awful offense to the playoffs with the help of a great defense... and good end of game coaching... things many pretend didnt happen because the bias is to dislike and sh$t on anyone that has left the dumpster fire to feel better about people current running and playing for the dumpster fire
And proceeded to embarrass himself and play like dogshit in that playoff game.
Great argument. What a hero he was for the Giants.
who said he was a hero? a lot of guys played like sh$t in a first playoff game. it does not mean they are losing players. whether they are on a boat or in their basement playing video games- who cares- he played terrible.
the argument is that it is pathetic to selectively forget 2016 as happening on the "win side"--- and then sit here and quote the 2017 record as part of his losing contribution when he was hurt all year- exposing even more the dumpster fire that we became.
Try not to sprain something patting yourself on the back there Nostradamus, I mean who could have predicted that, amazing!
Nothing that happened last night was surprising, nor did it in any way answer the questions that led the Giants to trade him.
Yup