Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
By starting Jones. I think it is the right move but make no mistake this teams WR Corp very poor until Shep and Tate return.
To Eli, I love you man you were the BEST.
He adds a little bit more to the offense, because of his running ability. Its just a small part, but Defenses will have to be prepared for him to tuck it and run. Just a little added dimension to the offensive game. If they load the box, Shumur needs to adjust.
The season is now instantly watchable again. Hopefully Jones is the future. Either way, it's absolutely necessary to start him now. With this defense, a top 5 pick is a lock. Gots to know if Jones is the future under center comes next April.
Correct, and Francesa's point was correct all along: how do you allocate resources to a QB drafted 6 and pay the incumbent $20mm, a gross misuse of scarce cap dollars where the $$ could have been used where sorely needed.
Taking the sentimentality out of it, that was the better way to manage the roster. Sentimentality for Eli and for the hope, now obviously dashed, that this was a team that could compete.
Francesa was brutal on Shurmur yesterday, just brutal. After questioning his bona fides to lead this team, any team, with his career losing record, after Shurmur call ended, the Pope called the team 'putrid'. He's still bent out of shape in his belief that DG lied to him.
Should've been the first new QB starting for the Giants Â
The players know who’s the better QB- they’re seeing them both play every week and can compare. If guys like Saquon thought DJ gave them a better chance to win I think you’d sense some restlessness from the rest of the team if they kept Eli out there.
I still think that their tenure in NY is completely tied to the success of DJ.
Should be interesting to watch.
Great point. But in a game of chess, it's also a pro-active strike. Manning getting the nod likely came all the way from the top. These decisions are made as a leadership team. We know this from the last time with the fiasco where Eli was benched and how Mara/Reese/McADunce handled it.
without Tate at least but they made the change
so hopefully Jones has a decent game it was
gonna come sooner or later . but he will have
Tate for the Vikings game so that will help .
I doubt it will get any worse under Jones
than it was with Eli really wasn't how I expected thing to unfold . Coach is now on the hot seat IMO he
can't blame Eli anymore .
Sorry to say it’s time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more ‘seasoning’ .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! I’ve organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I can’t make this one! Sh—T!
Good Luck Daniel
is seeing the young players start out.
I have a good feeling about this kid, but I'm not expecting miracles.
This team has plenty of needs that haven't been fixed yet, but putting a fresh arm who is more mobile than the future Hall Of Fame player he's replacing is a massive step.
GO BIG BLUE & DJ!
This change is about 2-3 years too late. This team has sucked since the last SB (for the most part) and Eli was not a QB who could overcome wdvereity.
He had to play behind a horrible OL but the truth is that his lack of mobility made it worse and was like the perfect storm for an innefective offense.
We really cannot get any worse right now and we know at this point we are what we are with Eli.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
RE: RE: RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here Â
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
Why? Tampa Bay's defense is nothing special against the pass. Shepard is also more than likely back this week. Guys usually don't miss two weeks with a concussion and there were promising signs last week that he'd play.
Someone should be a hero and post all of Gettleman's Â
and the Manning family, Jints Central wasted the last few productive years of Manning's career via poor drafting, poor coaching decisions, and poor management decisions, a.k.a trading Beckham.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
First off, the WR's that will be playing are the ones he has played the most with. Secondly, how do you know SS won't be back? Third, there is NEVER a perfect time but the Bucs are a very good opportunity to get off on the right foot..
1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
I would have waited a few weeks further. I think that would have been better for Jones and the chance for a better season.
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
Lots of different thoughts and feelings going around. Only thing I'll add is.. in response to the question "Why now?" I think the organization still feels, inexplicably or not, the Giants can contend for a playoff spot.
1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
Your assumptions are rather off the mark.
I like Jones. Liked drafting him at #6. I think he has the goods to be a franchise QB. I liked drafting Barkley.
Laughable? Did you see OBJ play last night. Mayfield was having a rather mediocre game until that play. That's what Beckham does.
I would have waited a few weeks further. I think that would have been better for Jones and the chance for a better season.
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
I think Mara and DG looked at the team as a whole and decided that even if Eli isn't the problem, the team wasn't going anywhere this season. And it's better to sit Eli down without having a losing record as a Giant.
I truly believe that was part of the decision. Just my opinion.
I thought they should have drafted the ER, Josh Allen. I think it's Â
is the other defense after the first drive realizes play tight on the wr and play Barkley. Eli can't get the ball out fast enough and he is not seeing the second and third receivers when the are open. Jones has a great deep ball and has great vision and gets the ball out quickly and on target. He also gives a threat to run and move in the pocket. Eli is done and its been a great ride but it is time for Jones to shine. Go Giants!
RE: I thought they should have drafted the ER, Josh Allen. I think it's Â
Jesus. I know you’re Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
Why anyone takes anything DG says seriously blows my mind. Do you think he really meant that. He says that because it doesn't cause controversy and he is the guy until he isn't. Their actions show what the really think. Remember when he had the conversation with Eli and said he was a mensch. Sounds to me like he was trying to get Eli to retire at that point. Drafted a qb at 6 and people still thought Eli was going to play here for years. Gotta read between the lines with DG, people think he is some fool, which is probably exactly what he wants you to think.
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Zeke agreed about DG - a lot of hypothetical if not facetiousness Â
1. "I knew he was a pro QB after the 3 drives in the Sr Bowl" - of which one was half ending. Maybe he DID like what he saw, but do we believe that's ALL he used to make his #6 pick?
2. "Green Bay / KC Model." Iirc both comments were very hypothetical, esp the "in 3 years" implication. He was just saying anything could happen from here, even something like this. Mostly in responses to when DJ is playing, what it means for Eli
I'm not defending him as flawless, but many miss obvious sarcasm or hyperbole. Then if you listen to him the Boston townie vibe rarely sits well for a NY crowd. That aside from us taking single soundbytes or statements completely out of context, pretty much 100% of the time
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Right, but I would have given him his 5 million roster bonus than cut him after the draft. The 5 million is well worth the draft capital you may save yourself.
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
You never thought of this until now? People have been talking about it since the draft.
Lots of different thoughts and feelings going around. Only thing I'll add is.. in response to the question "Why now?" I think the organization still feels, inexplicably or not, the Giants can contend for a playoff spot.
Mike, that's valid but I thought of another. Money. DJ is more likely to fill seats and gather media attention than Manning. With Eli back there, the stadium would be 1/2 empty by the end of October.
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Had Eli been released early, other teams would suspect that the Giants would grab a QB. Which one and if the G-men would trade up/down would still have been a question.
RE: RE: Someone should be a hero and post all of Gettleman's Â
Jesus. I know you’re Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
RE: RE: RE: Someone should be a hero and post all of Gettleman's Â
Jesus. I know you’re Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
TTH, I think he took your comment as a swipe at Manning. I admit I thought the same, but I have been known to totally miss the intended point of a comment or two.
Quote:
In comment 14582913 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
Amazing post Matt. Thank you.
To Eli, I love you man you were the BEST.
^^^ Correct. Thank you.
Bold. Brilliant. Beautiful.
The season is now instantly watchable again. Hopefully Jones is the future. Either way, it's absolutely necessary to start him now. With this defense, a top 5 pick is a lock. Gots to know if Jones is the future under center comes next April.
Taking the sentimentality out of it, that was the better way to manage the roster. Sentimentality for Eli and for the hope, now obviously dashed, that this was a team that could compete.
Francesa was brutal on Shurmur yesterday, just brutal. After questioning his bona fides to lead this team, any team, with his career losing record, after Shurmur call ended, the Pope called the team 'putrid'. He's still bent out of shape in his belief that DG lied to him.
I still think that their tenure in NY is completely tied to the success of DJ.
Should be interesting to watch.
2) Eli does not start another game unless Jones is injured. Starting another game risks giving Eli a below .500 career record
3) Management kept Eli because they thought the Giants had enough talent to contend and doubted that a new quarterback would be better
4) Giants made the move to Jones because they think Jones is actually a better quarterback than Eli
I think it's predictable how guys on this team will feel about this change.
They could explain that Eli got paid 2 months before the 2019 draft.
I still think that their tenure in NY is completely tied to the success of DJ.
Should be interesting to watch.
so hopefully Jones has a decent game it was
gonna come sooner or later . but he will have
Tate for the Vikings game so that will help .
I doubt it will get any worse under Jones
than it was with Eli really wasn't how I expected thing to unfold . Coach is now on the hot seat IMO he
can't blame Eli anymore .
Sorry to say it’s time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more ‘seasoning’ .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! I’ve organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I can’t make this one! Sh—T!
Good Luck Daniel
Thank You Eli!!
I'll be going to the Washington game!
Do I get to see Jones vs Haskins!?
I have a good feeling about this kid, but I'm not expecting miracles.
This team has plenty of needs that haven't been fixed yet, but putting a fresh arm who is more mobile than the future Hall Of Fame player he's replacing is a massive step.
GO BIG BLUE & DJ!
Golden parachute contract, just like Jonathan Stewart last year.
Because a generational RB needs to 'learn the ropes'.
I heard:
Shurmur
Mara
Mathematically eliminated.
Mandate.
Not ready.
Blah blah blah.
It was time.
I told you ALL to:
"ADMIT IT"
It would be exciting if they announced Jones would start.
It is.
I was right.
On all counts.
Just sayin'
Is there anything lamer than an “ I told you so “ asshole?
He had to play behind a horrible OL but the truth is that his lack of mobility made it worse and was like the perfect storm for an innefective offense.
We really cannot get any worse right now and we know at this point we are what we are with Eli.
NY sports fans are so afraid of change
Quote:
In comment 14582537 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Yeah, it's, uh... it's not a good look is it?
i think its more likely that Mara handcuffed them by pushing for one last shot with Eli. id lean that direction over sheer incompetence.
Also not a good look.
made the OLine respectable - yeah brilliant rationale for firing DG.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
Quote:
In comment 14582913 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
Agree with a lot of this.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
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on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
Why? Tampa Bay's defense is nothing special against the pass. Shepard is also more than likely back this week. Guys usually don't miss two weeks with a concussion and there were promising signs last week that he'd play.
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on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
First off, the WR's that will be playing are the ones he has played the most with. Secondly, how do you know SS won't be back? Third, there is NEVER a perfect time but the Bucs are a very good opportunity to get off on the right foot..
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
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1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
Your assumptions are rather off the mark.
I like Jones. Liked drafting him at #6. I think he has the goods to be a franchise QB. I liked drafting Barkley.
Laughable? Did you see OBJ play last night. Mayfield was having a rather mediocre game until that play. That's what Beckham does.
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
I think Mara and DG looked at the team as a whole and decided that even if Eli isn't the problem, the team wasn't going anywhere this season. And it's better to sit Eli down without having a losing record as a Giant.
I truly believe that was part of the decision. Just my opinion.
That said, I root for the sweater. I am all in on Daniel Jones. Bring me my pom poms.
Are you more interested in Sunday's game?
You are.
If they lose next week are you still interested in watching the rest of the season?
You are.
That is how Mara,DG and Shurmur thought you would feel. It is far better than the alternative
That said, I root for the sweater. I am all in on Daniel Jones. Bring me my pom poms.
Too soon to give up on Eli??? What rock have you been living under, give me the details because it must be comfortable as hell
Jesus. I know you’re Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
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Effusive Eli praise. It really holds up well.
Jesus. I know you’re Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
Why anyone takes anything DG says seriously blows my mind. Do you think he really meant that. He says that because it doesn't cause controversy and he is the guy until he isn't. Their actions show what the really think. Remember when he had the conversation with Eli and said he was a mensch. Sounds to me like he was trying to get Eli to retire at that point. Drafted a qb at 6 and people still thought Eli was going to play here for years. Gotta read between the lines with DG, people think he is some fool, which is probably exactly what he wants you to think.
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
1. "I knew he was a pro QB after the 3 drives in the Sr Bowl" - of which one was half ending. Maybe he DID like what he saw, but do we believe that's ALL he used to make his #6 pick?
2. "Green Bay / KC Model." Iirc both comments were very hypothetical, esp the "in 3 years" implication. He was just saying anything could happen from here, even something like this. Mostly in responses to when DJ is playing, what it means for Eli
I'm not defending him as flawless, but many miss obvious sarcasm or hyperbole. Then if you listen to him the Boston townie vibe rarely sits well for a NY crowd. That aside from us taking single soundbytes or statements completely out of context, pretty much 100% of the time
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In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Right, but I would have given him his 5 million roster bonus than cut him after the draft. The 5 million is well worth the draft capital you may save yourself.
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In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
You never thought of this until now? People have been talking about it since the draft.
Mike, that's valid but I thought of another. Money. DJ is more likely to fill seats and gather media attention than Manning. With Eli back there, the stadium would be 1/2 empty by the end of October.
DJ's jersey sales will really take off now.
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In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Had Eli been released early, other teams would suspect that the Giants would grab a QB. Which one and if the G-men would trade up/down would still have been a question.
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Effusive Eli praise. It really holds up well.
Jesus. I know you’re Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
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In comment 14584253 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Effusive Eli praise. It really holds up well.
Jesus. I know you’re Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
TTH, I think he took your comment as a swipe at Manning. I admit I thought the same, but I have been known to totally miss the intended point of a comment or two.