I love eli more than any athlete Ive ever watched play any sport Its a long season This tells me shurmur is really on hot seat and if hes going down he wants his own qb in there. This doesnt mean eli is done or wont contribute
Change how bad of a coach Shurmur is. Eli should have played this next game or 2 against easier defenses. Hopefully Jones doesn't fumble 4 times and they run the damn ball.
they didn't make lightly. This has to be Daniel Jones' team now permanently. Putting him in and pulling him out at any point can only hurt his confidence. It will be tough to see Eli riding the bench the rest of the year but it was time.
Thank you Eli for all you have done for this team and the fans!
I look forward to getting excited about watching (and re-watching) games again.
I think this is 100% the right decision for the organization given where they are. So I give them credit for that. It may seem like a no-brainer, but it takes some courage to do it after 2 weeks when they sold us the bill of goods they did in the offseason.
they didn't make lightly. This has to be Daniel Jones' team now permanently. Putting him in and pulling him out at any point can only hurt his confidence. It will be tough to see Eli riding the bench the rest of the year but it was time.
Thank you Eli for all you have done for this team and the fans!
Excellent point. Short of injury, Eli should not see the field again as a Giant. They have to be all in on Jones, through all of the growing pains and determine whether he is in fact a top 10 qb.
Eli was a great Giant and will be treated as such by fans. No one will remember these last days. They will only remember the escape, the dime to Manningham down the sidelines, and the trophies being help up.
Also hate to say it, but with our defense it's probably not going to make much difference. Good that he's getting NFL experience and NYG will find out it he's got the goods or not, but we can't rush the passer or cover so we're in for some pretty dismal Sundays.
No one should expect 1984 Dan Marino. He's a rookie and he's 99.9% likely to play the way most rookie QBs play. However, that's a part of the growing process and the Giants need to move forward.
definitely time. Eli can't extend plays anymore, which is a central part of Shurmur's offense, and a must in today's NFL. We saw that last Sunday. Allen hurt us badly with his legs, frequently escaping pressure that would have swallowed Eli.
I'm OK with the Giants keeping Eli this year, despite the cost. They didn't know whether or if they'd be able to draft Jones, or how he would do during the preseason.
and the game itself, but now the two hour drive and the game will all be worth it. Regardless of the outcome we get to see our new QBs first start in the NFL! Go Giants!!
Interesting to see how patient fans will be with Jones. Patients is typically required with a rookie qb, especially on a team like this. This is very exciting anyhow.
but the play if Eli is at least as big a problem. Jones is a rookie, there will be growing pains - it took Eli 3-4 years. Hopefully Jones shows promise this season - if not, it can be addressed again next April with a new GM and Coach.
Interesting to see how patient fans will be with Jones. Patients is typically required with a rookie qb, especially on a team like this. This is very exciting anyhow.
They made the move this early. Im all for it as the stats have shown there is zero benefit to redshirting rookies, he looked great in the preseason and Eli is now a bottom tier starter. But when they traded Odell, paid Eli for this season and Mara made his comments in the offseason I thought it would be only a late season move not just after two games.
Shurmur knows that Handley and McAdoo each lasted two seasons or less and another 5-11 performance with predominantly Eli would lead to a pink slip. So his chance of surviving is showing he can develop Jones and this team can succeed with the right leader
Eli is a nice guy, a mensch even and he worked hard. He delivered some of his best play when it mattered most. But its time
sure I agree with keeping a qb at 20M if you were expecting to make the switch this early in the season. And considering how bad this roster is, no one should have expected anything but an 0-2 start.
Interesting to see how patient fans will be with Jones. Patients is typically required with a rookie qb, especially on a team like this. This is very exciting anyhow.
What??? Didn't you watch him in preseason????
Greg, he was inducted into the preseason HOF following his heroic performance. He is joining the likes of Kent Graham (1999 preseason)
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Paying Eli was more in recognition of his former contributions than his potential going forward. We may not agree with that tactic, but I believe it is what motivated Mara & Company.
Regardless of the fact that this is overdue, it's a lousy way for a team legend to go out. It sucked when Simms was released in 1994 and this sucks today.
He's just not the guy anymore. Could probably do well enough as a caretaker type on a talented offense, but he simply can't make anyone better anymore.
"Eli and I spoke this morning," head coach Pat Shurmur said Tuesday, per the team's official website. "I told him that we are making a change and going with Daniel as the starter. I also talked to Daniel. Eli was obviously disappointed, as you would expect, but he said he would be what he has always been, a good teammate, and continue to prepare to help this team win games. Daniel understands the challenge at hand, and he will be ready to play on Sunday."
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Any chance Mara is pushing this so Eli doesnt end his career
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Got a lot more in return (Lawrence/Peppers+) for OBJ by signing and trading him then they would've if they let him walk. Basically spent $16M in cap space to turn a 3rd round comp pick into much better assets.
I'd bet bringing Eli back with a short leash was a compromise between DG and Mara.
Doesn't matter anymore. DGs legacy will be defined by Jones and whether or not he's a legit starting QB.
with Eli. He was always going to leave after this season anyway. All our dead cap money is tied to this year, with a fresh start next year. The money really makes no difference.
RE: Any chance Mara is pushing this so Eli doesnt end his career
It's pretty clear that it was Shurmur pushing this....but I do think that part of the reason Mara relented was not wanting to see Eli retire with a losing record.
The ultimate irony is that it was McAdoo's decision to start Geno Smith that saved Eli from having a losing record!!!
RE: RE: Schumer is gone by thanksgiving. Calling it.
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Got a lot more in return (Lawrence/Peppers+) for OBJ by signing and trading him then they would've if they let him walk. Basically spent $16M in cap space to turn a 3rd round comp pick into much better assets.
I'd bet bringing Eli back with a short leash was a compromise between DG and Mara.
Doesn't matter anymore. DGs legacy will be defined by Jones and whether or not he's a legit starting QB.
The thing thats valuable about draft picks are that they are free.
Once you start paying $16-21 mil for them they aren't so great.
Love Eli, arguably the greatest Giants QB of all time, but every QB has his time to go. He brought us 2 Super Bowls (and MVPS). I hope Jones can match Eli's success.
As an aside, I think they should talk to Eli about going someplace like Jax. They could use him
RE: Why does everyone keep mentioning the money thing
with Eli. He was always going to leave after this season anyway. All our dead cap money is tied to this year, with a fresh start next year. The money really makes no difference.
They had to commit to him before the draft. Before they could draft D Jones or know how ready he would be to play this year. I don't get the argument about money.
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Well said arc and you pretty much summed up my thoughts as well.
The thing thats valuable about draft picks are that they are free.
Once you start paying $16-21 mil for them they aren't so great.
They aren't free, they get you players under team control for 4-5 years of below market value. Peppers/Lawrence don't even need to be pro bowlers to be worth $20M (over 4 years) more than a 3rd round comp pick. Granted, Peppers does need to play better than Curtis Riley...
I was hoping for a better ending. However the reality is we are not winning and Eli is no longer the future. I feel bad for him but I think its the right thing for the franchise going forward.
In comment 14582746 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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In comment 14582687 ryanmkeane said:
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with Eli. He was always going to leave after this season anyway. All our dead cap money is tied to this year, with a fresh start next year. The money really makes no difference.
They had to commit to him before the draft. Before they could draft D Jones or know how ready he would be to play this year. I don't get the argument about money.
They could've cut Eli after the draft and still saved $11.5M, though that would've been a pretty dick thing to do to a guy like Eli.
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Well said arc and you pretty much summed up my thoughts as well.
Amen to this.
RE: It's now the pre-season HOF'ers time to start.
possibly from the offseason w/ Eli, but definitely how PS delivered the msg in the last couple days
That said, it doesn't really matter that much. It was time, it's here, had to & was going to happen, for the most part no one will remember esp if he continues developing appropriately
Thanks Eli. Greatest NYG QB, and one of the Greatest NYGs ever
And lets goooo DJ! Don't F it up lol
RE: RE: It's now the pre-season HOF'ers time to start.
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
The amount of crap being thrown at Eli by Non-Giant fans is going crazy right now. Like everyone here I am super appreciative for Eli. There are people who have waited years to watch their teams win a Super Bowl and Eli gave me two. Thank you Eli!!!!
but Matt in SGS alluded to this in an earlier thread, but during that Eli/Gettleman talk after last season, Eli may have told him he was retiring after his contract is up. Although it doesn't make financial sense, I can see the Giants picking up his option for a few reasons:
1.) As a quiet Thank you for his years of service, but in return for...
2.) He would mentor the incoming replacement by showing him how to prepare, how to plan your day at the facility and how to read the field. The Giants are paying him handsomely for this, but he is the biggest icon in franchise history so it's easier to swallow. And picking up the option accomplished one more thing...
3.) It didn't tip the Giants hand on where they were going in the draft.
Again, this may be far fetched, but if they had a script for this move this makes a little sense.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
Agreed, This team desperately needs a spark and Tampa does not have a great defense so this is the right time to make the switch. Sterling Shepard will be back next week and hopefully Latimer and Slayton also.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Regardless of the fact that this is overdue, it's a lousy way for a team legend to go out. It sucked when Simms was released in 1994 and this sucks today.
He's just not the guy anymore. Could probably do well enough as a caretaker type on a talented offense, but he simply can't make anyone better anymore.
We have to find out if Gettleman was right about this guy. I don't think he was, but we'll see.
I agree. For all anyone knows, we will be seeing our own version of Ryan Tannehill. DG hasn't shown himself to be a terribly astute judge of talent or evaluation.
they didn't make lightly. This has to be Daniel Jones' team now permanently. Putting him in and pulling him out at any point can only hurt his confidence.
I hear you, but it's football. Guys get into the lineup and go out of the lineup. What you don't want is a vacillating HC. Jones is the guy now, and he's going to get a long look, but if he has to come out and that breaks his confidence, he's not cut out for the job.
Eli still has a .500 record. Playing another few games would have made it worse. I actually hope that the Giants release him so he can find another team this season that needs a QB. Dont try to trade him, just send him on his way so he can choose where he wants to play.
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Eli still has a .500 record. Playing another few games would have made it worse. I actually hope that the Giants release him so he can find another team this season that needs a QB. Dont try to trade him, just send him on his way so he can choose where he wants to play.
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
You know what....I think that's an excellent point and I wouldn't put it past the ownership telling the coach to do make the move now to not tarnish the Eli Manning legacy further by saddling him with a losing record.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I would agree. In fact A to C is probably least likely to most likely imo.
behind a team with no WRs to speak of and a terrible defense. Shurmur sees more options with Jones and his ability to get the ball out quick and use his movement to keep plays alive. Eli is too slow to play on a team as flawed as this one and be competitive. MO
But i am happy that i have something to look forward to now in hopefully watching the next franchise QB grow and learn on the job.
I just really hope both the fans and the media give him time and allow him to make rookie mistakes and not criticize him like hes a 15 year vet but i think some people are ready with their pitchforks the second jones makes a bad pass or turns the ball over .
Now the thing you have to hope for is Jones isn't some system QB
and into the season. Trying to win with Eli has to have been weighing on him, even if he had support from DG to make an early change to Jones. Now, we'll see if he was right on Jones.
RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
My son was 8 when Eli played his first game - I made him sit down and watch, although most of the time he was on his Game Boy or whatever the hand held gaming device was back then. I actually recorded the game on the VCR. I'm not sure I even own one anymore, but I have the cassette.
He turns 23 next week, but this Sunday we will be watching the beginning of the Daniel Jones era together. I'll record the game on the DVR, but it doesn't seem to have the same historical context.
He's pretty pumped, he's been on the ditch Eli bandwagon for a few years. I'm also excited, but I never wanted Eli to go out like this.
RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I don't rate either but Gettleman's shtick hasn't exactly been to be a pal to expensive veterans in Carolina and Shurmur clearly, clearly needs a QB with some mobility. Eli being on roster is fundamentally a decision that ownership approved. Gettleman and Shurmur carry some of the blame for it, but I think Mara is the main reason.
And I don't think Shurmur or Gettleman should be in post next year. The only case you could make for Shurmur is a radical turnaround with Jones looking very settled in his system (even then a lot of the good candidates will be associated with Reid next year and run a scheme with the same terminology), and if that's the case then I imagine the rising tide will lift Gettleman to safety as well.
RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
RE: Think the deciding factor was ELI's poor mobility
behind a team with no WRs to speak of and a terrible defense. Shurmur sees more options with Jones and his ability to get the ball out quick and use his movement to keep plays alive. Eli is too slow to play on a team as flawed as this one and be competitive. MO
A pocket passer needs a physical 50/50 receiver. A competent org like Atlanta goes flying up the board to get Jones.
RE: Now the thing you have to hope for is Jones isn't some system QB
that's so fit to Shurmur that it's a problem if they change coaches.
Jones is clearly Shurmur's preference. You can practically see his toes curl when talking about him.
The base of Shurmur's system is relatively common though. It's fundamentally Andy Reid's system in terms of terminology, and quietly Reid has one of if not the biggest coaching trees in the league. A lot of the major candidates for HC next year will be from the Reid tree.
Suppose the Giants finish 3-13 and have secured a top 3 pick, and suppose by then the 3 top collegiate QBs have firmly established themselves as franchise-type guys. AND suppose that throughout that 3-13 season, Shurnur has continued to show he is not a good coach.
If they fire him, what if most or all of their candidates simply weren't impressed by Jones and want to take one of the promising QBs in the draft? Is that candidate disqualified?
RE: RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
If they kept struggling with Eli, people would complain that they were depriving Jones of valuable learning time. Now that they've made the switch (a move many said wouldn't happen until at least week 6 or 7 because of over-conservative management, etc.), and all we hear about is the sunk cost with Eli.
It's clear the Giants hedged their bets on the situation, with the idea that Jones would watch and learn this year, but when he flashed more quickly than they anticipated, that forced their hand. I would have done things differently, but the move is made and they're moving forward. That in itself should be a relief, even if it gives the usual suspects on the board more bile to spit.
It's just a matter of taste if you don't want to see it. I can understand why there would be fatigue from it, but the point is real, and it's another notch against how this team does their business, which leaves room to be desired.
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
The Giants really screwed the second half of his career. Reese especially. What a joke.
I agree with you, great post.
Those who said Eli getting paid this year was in appreciation of what he's done, and suffered through - if true I am OK with that too. Eli can still mentor as a backup, help him understand what being a pro is.
I'll be wearing my Manning jersey at the local Giants bar Sunday with loads of pride.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
RE: RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
I could instantly tell if its a run or not when Eli was PA or handing off out of shotgun. DJ8 has a great PA out of shotgun, precise machine like mechanics all around.
Danny Jones should invigorate the team and fan base. Giants were stuck in neutral with Eli these past few years, clinging to past glories. Did Mara finally cave into Shurmer and Gettelman? Jones is ready for live ammunition. I really want to get back on the bandwagon.
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
It's just a matter of taste if you don't want to see it. I can understand why there would be fatigue from it, but the point is real, and it's another notch against how this team does their business, which leaves room to be desired.
Oh, I acknowledge it. I get it, it's a results business and people are ornery after years of failure.
But if the team turns it around and Jones plays better than advertised, does any of this stuff really matter? The only reason to be angry is if you truly believe the Giants could have fielded a Super Bowl-caliber team these last few years without Eli. I don't buy that for a second.
It's a free country, if you want to continue to be pessimistic about the team and management, go ahead. But at some point the past is just the past, and you move on with what you've got, like the team just did today.
I disagree with is the now were tanking the season narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
Zeke's Alibi a lot of props for this. He said we could likely see Jones Week 3 because we were playing teams with great defenses.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
RE: You could also see the stress in Shumur's face throughout camp
and into the season. Trying to win with Eli has to have been weighing on him, even if he had support from DG to make an early change to Jones. Now, we'll see if he was right on Jones.
This was so obvious to me from his reactions on the field, to his comments to the media. We finally get to see what Shurmur can do with the handcuffs off.
I disagree with is the now were tanking the season narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
I think they think they can still win 7-8 games, probably where the evaluation was before the season. The defense is going to take time and I'm sure they knew it. The offense needs to carry them. They weren't so we are seeing Jones.
Zeke's Alibi a lot of props for this. He said we could likely see Jones Week 3 because we were playing teams with great defenses.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
And for a road game, Tampa is one of the least intimidating places to play for an opposing QB. The majority of fans will probably be Giants fans, and with Jones first start, even more so. Let him get this game under his belt before his first home start.
So going to Jones is the correct move, even if it is bittersweet. Will always love and respect Eli but glad to see that the Giants have accepted the rebuilding that we knew was inevitable.
I know most of us are all about winning but we have to be prepared for what we are about to see this season, and what commitment to rebuilding means. Even if rookie Daniel Jones is better than fading-into-the-sunset Eli Manning, I can't see that being enough to suddenly turn this team into a winner, especially with the current caliber of the defense.
Eli went 1-6 as a rookie starter; Peyton Manning went 3-13.
I'm expecting typical rookie play from our first pick and too many fumbles, bad decisions, etc. Can he go 3-11, 4-10 as a rookie? Will he even start the next 14 games? In any case I will not be upset with this move even if the losing continues because it's likely that the team would not win much this year with Eli and that next year, Daniel Jones will have figured it out with a season under his belt.
after the last game, it felt like it was time to have DJ replace Eli.
going into the season, I didn't think it would happen so soon. i expected maybe for the cards game, or after the bye. i would have been shocked if Eli lasted the season and we made the playoffs, but you never know, and that's why you play the games. so, it turned out after game 2.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
Yep I pick C. If he takes care of the ball better (fumbles) I am thinking he does really well for a couple of games until the tape gets out on him. Then he will be up and down like every other rookie QB ever... lol
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
I disagree with is the now were tanking the season narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
(C) is the path for most NFL QBs regardless of how good they become later in their career.
I disagree with is the now were tanking the season narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
Yea we completely disagree. Hes been terrible just like the last few years. Im surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isnt playing winning football and hasnt for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
Yea we completely disagree. Hes been terrible just like the last few years. Im surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isnt playing winning football and hasnt for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
If he was playing well, so what? It still wouldn't make any sense for him to be out there. This team is not winning anything regardless of what Eli does. THAT is the acknowledgement with this move.
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
Wow we actually have named Daniel Jones as the teams starting QB. The Eli Manning era at the New York Giants is probably finished. As a fan this feels so strange but it's surely the correct decision so let's see how it all play's out I guess.
Change how bad of a coach Shurmur is. Eli should have played this next game or 2 against easier defenses. Hopefully Jones doesn't fumble 4 times and they run the damn ball.
Have you watched the Bucs first two games ? They look like they are a very good defense.
1) Archie Manning's father committing suicide
2) Losing a child - tragic and extremely sad
3) Getting sick(or spouse) at a relatively young age
I was listening to talk radio in the Albany market and the host was very upset how Eli was treated and said he would go into Mara's office and dump his locker on the Mara's desk.
Eli Manning has led a charmed life. He is rich beyond most of our wildest dreams, he has a healthy family and has played in the NFL for 16 years. He is getting out in pretty good shape health wise.
Don't shed a tear for this guy. Love him, yes, but sad no.
Agree 100% it was spot on! I'd like to add Does Daniel Jones give us a better chance of winning, right now the answer is truly I don't know, but he can get his real game experience in and we can see what we have in our #1 draft pick.
didn't click with Eli. Maybe it's his fault, maybe the offense style wasn't a good fit for him.
The defense has sucked donkey balls, but the O only showed occasional flashes, and Eli never seemed to be part of the solution. He was ruined by years of horrible line play, and is still fighting off the shell shock.
Sorry to say its time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more seasoning .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! Ive organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I cant make this one! ShT!
Good Luck Daniel
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his
career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
Zero answers ?????
They punted 6-7 times ..... the defense was bad but gave them something at least
He'll feel the attention of the media but at least he won't have to deal with the weight of fan expectations from 80k plus in the crowd in his first start. And Tampa is a far cry from the old blackhole.
Come on with the Reese ruining Eli's last few seasons
I'll argue that Eli got Reese fired. Reese and McAdoo saw declining play and wanted to start the transition and were fired after coming off an 11-5 season. I wonder how much they pushed to get Mahomes, that we be interesting to know.
For the 5000th time, Reese did not make decisions in a vacuum, lots of input from TC and Mara. He was the GM and presided over some poor drafts so he earned his exit. But he also was GM for some very good drafts that led to 2 Super Bowls. Without that 2007 draft, and picking up Kawika Mitchell (which was mocked by most at the time) no SB 42. Without JPP, Nicks, Cruz and Manningham, no SB 46.
Can we move on from TC, Reese and Eli without crapping on any of them? They brought us two of the most incredible runs any team has ever had!!!
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
By starting Jones. I think it is the right move but make no mistake this teams WR Corp very poor until Shep and Tate return.
To Eli, I love you man you were the BEST.
He adds a little bit more to the offense, because of his running ability. Its just a small part, but Defenses will have to be prepared for him to tuck it and run. Just a little added dimension to the offensive game. If they load the box, Shumur needs to adjust.
The season is now instantly watchable again. Hopefully Jones is the future. Either way, it's absolutely necessary to start him now. With this defense, a top 5 pick is a lock. Gots to know if Jones is the future under center comes next April.
Correct, and Francesa's point was correct all along: how do you allocate resources to a QB drafted 6 and pay the incumbent $20mm, a gross misuse of scarce cap dollars where the $$ could have been used where sorely needed.
Taking the sentimentality out of it, that was the better way to manage the roster. Sentimentality for Eli and for the hope, now obviously dashed, that this was a team that could compete.
Francesa was brutal on Shurmur yesterday, just brutal. After questioning his bona fides to lead this team, any team, with his career losing record, after Shurmur call ended, the Pope called the team 'putrid'. He's still bent out of shape in his belief that DG lied to him.
Should've been the first new QB starting for the Giants
The players know whos the better QB- theyre seeing them both play every week and can compare. If guys like Saquon thought DJ gave them a better chance to win I think youd sense some restlessness from the rest of the team if they kept Eli out there.
I still think that their tenure in NY is completely tied to the success of DJ.
Should be interesting to watch.
Great point. But in a game of chess, it's also a pro-active strike. Manning getting the nod likely came all the way from the top. These decisions are made as a leadership team. We know this from the last time with the fiasco where Eli was benched and how Mara/Reese/McADunce handled it.
without Tate at least but they made the change
so hopefully Jones has a decent game it was
gonna come sooner or later . but he will have
Tate for the Vikings game so that will help .
I doubt it will get any worse under Jones
than it was with Eli really wasn't how I expected thing to unfold . Coach is now on the hot seat IMO he
can't blame Eli anymore .
Sorry to say its time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more seasoning .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! Ive organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I cant make this one! ShT!
Good Luck Daniel
is seeing the young players start out.
I have a good feeling about this kid, but I'm not expecting miracles.
This team has plenty of needs that haven't been fixed yet, but putting a fresh arm who is more mobile than the future Hall Of Fame player he's replacing is a massive step.
GO BIG BLUE & DJ!
This change is about 2-3 years too late. This team has sucked since the last SB (for the most part) and Eli was not a QB who could overcome wdvereity.
He had to play behind a horrible OL but the truth is that his lack of mobility made it worse and was like the perfect storm for an innefective offense.
We really cannot get any worse right now and we know at this point we are what we are with Eli.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
RE: RE: RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
Why? Tampa Bay's defense is nothing special against the pass. Shepard is also more than likely back this week. Guys usually don't miss two weeks with a concussion and there were promising signs last week that he'd play.
Someone should be a hero and post all of Gettleman's
and the Manning family, Jints Central wasted the last few productive years of Manning's career via poor drafting, poor coaching decisions, and poor management decisions, a.k.a trading Beckham.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
First off, the WR's that will be playing are the ones he has played the most with. Secondly, how do you know SS won't be back? Third, there is NEVER a perfect time but the Bucs are a very good opportunity to get off on the right foot..
1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
I would have waited a few weeks further. I think that would have been better for Jones and the chance for a better season.
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
Lots of different thoughts and feelings going around. Only thing I'll add is.. in response to the question "Why now?" I think the organization still feels, inexplicably or not, the Giants can contend for a playoff spot.
1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
Your assumptions are rather off the mark.
I like Jones. Liked drafting him at #6. I think he has the goods to be a franchise QB. I liked drafting Barkley.
Laughable? Did you see OBJ play last night. Mayfield was having a rather mediocre game until that play. That's what Beckham does.
I would have waited a few weeks further. I think that would have been better for Jones and the chance for a better season.
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
I think Mara and DG looked at the team as a whole and decided that even if Eli isn't the problem, the team wasn't going anywhere this season. And it's better to sit Eli down without having a losing record as a Giant.
I truly believe that was part of the decision. Just my opinion.
I thought they should have drafted the ER, Josh Allen. I think it's
is the other defense after the first drive realizes play tight on the wr and play Barkley. Eli can't get the ball out fast enough and he is not seeing the second and third receivers when the are open. Jones has a great deep ball and has great vision and gets the ball out quickly and on target. He also gives a threat to run and move in the pocket. Eli is done and its been a great ride but it is time for Jones to shine. Go Giants!
RE: I thought they should have drafted the ER, Josh Allen. I think it's
Jesus. I know youre Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
Why anyone takes anything DG says seriously blows my mind. Do you think he really meant that. He says that because it doesn't cause controversy and he is the guy until he isn't. Their actions show what the really think. Remember when he had the conversation with Eli and said he was a mensch. Sounds to me like he was trying to get Eli to retire at that point. Drafted a qb at 6 and people still thought Eli was going to play here for years. Gotta read between the lines with DG, people think he is some fool, which is probably exactly what he wants you to think.
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Zeke agreed about DG - a lot of hypothetical if not facetiousness
1. "I knew he was a pro QB after the 3 drives in the Sr Bowl" - of which one was half ending. Maybe he DID like what he saw, but do we believe that's ALL he used to make his #6 pick?
2. "Green Bay / KC Model." Iirc both comments were very hypothetical, esp the "in 3 years" implication. He was just saying anything could happen from here, even something like this. Mostly in responses to when DJ is playing, what it means for Eli
I'm not defending him as flawless, but many miss obvious sarcasm or hyperbole. Then if you listen to him the Boston townie vibe rarely sits well for a NY crowd. That aside from us taking single soundbytes or statements completely out of context, pretty much 100% of the time
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Right, but I would have given him his 5 million roster bonus than cut him after the draft. The 5 million is well worth the draft capital you may save yourself.
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
You never thought of this until now? People have been talking about it since the draft.
Lots of different thoughts and feelings going around. Only thing I'll add is.. in response to the question "Why now?" I think the organization still feels, inexplicably or not, the Giants can contend for a playoff spot.
Mike, that's valid but I thought of another. Money. DJ is more likely to fill seats and gather media attention than Manning. With Eli back there, the stadium would be 1/2 empty by the end of October.
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Had Eli been released early, other teams would suspect that the Giants would grab a QB. Which one and if the G-men would trade up/down would still have been a question.
RE: RE: Someone should be a hero and post all of Gettleman's
Jesus. I know youre Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
RE: RE: RE: Someone should be a hero and post all of Gettleman's
Jesus. I know youre Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
TTH, I think he took your comment as a swipe at Manning. I admit I thought the same, but I have been known to totally miss the intended point of a comment or two.
Thank you Eli for all you have done for this team and the fans!
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
But, if that's what they decided, then I am 100% all in and best of luck to Daniel.
Chills
I think this is 100% the right decision for the organization given where they are. So I give them credit for that. It may seem like a no-brainer, but it takes some courage to do it after 2 weeks when they sold us the bill of goods they did in the offseason.
Good move doing today and not dragging out this week.
Good luck Daniel Jones!
But, if that's what they decided, then I am 100% all in and best of luck to Daniel.
Did you miss the first 2 weeks?
That said, I love Eli, but I think he's left too many plays on the field these 2 weeks to really even make a case that this is punting the season.
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
So it was worth a $17million cap hit to keep teams guessing what we'd do in the draft? Are you honestly that......nevermind.
Thank you Eli for all you have done for this team and the fans!
Excellent point. Short of injury, Eli should not see the field again as a Giant. They have to be all in on Jones, through all of the growing pains and determine whether he is in fact a top 10 qb.
Eli was a great Giant and will be treated as such by fans. No one will remember these last days. They will only remember the escape, the dime to Manningham down the sidelines, and the trophies being help up.
It seemed to work well in preseason....
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
Jay on the Island -- out of all due respect, what were the odds that Daniel Jones was going before the Giants at #6?
Thank you Eli - and let's go Danny Dimes!!
No one should expect 1984 Dan Marino. He's a rookie and he's 99.9% likely to play the way most rookie QBs play. However, that's a part of the growing process and the Giants need to move forward.
I'm OK with the Giants keeping Eli this year, despite the cost. They didn't know whether or if they'd be able to draft Jones, or how he would do during the preseason.
Did you see the future? How do you know what's gonna happen
Sarcasm?
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
What??? Didn't you watch him in preseason????
Shurmur knows that Handley and McAdoo each lasted two seasons or less and another 5-11 performance with predominantly Eli would lead to a pink slip. So his chance of surviving is showing he can develop Jones and this team can succeed with the right leader
Eli is a nice guy, a mensch even and he worked hard. He delivered some of his best play when it mattered most. But its time
Yeah, pretty much the same. Bittersweet
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
But culture and the KC model
He's a little more in the firing line now.
"This move is more about Daniel moving forward than about Eli.
I think this is very true, well-said and spoken from the heart.
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Interesting to see how patient fans will be with Jones. Patients is typically required with a rookie qb, especially on a team like this. This is very exciting anyhow.
What??? Didn't you watch him in preseason????
Greg, he was inducted into the preseason HOF following his heroic performance. He is joining the likes of Kent Graham (1999 preseason)
But Jones is going to be a good one.
Kind of surprised they chose to do it this early. No turning back now.
Let's go Giants!
Not necessarily, he will be given some grace on losses, but it will matter in what session the team loses.
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Paying Eli was more in recognition of his former contributions than his potential going forward. We may not agree with that tactic, but I believe it is what motivated Mara & Company.
He's just not the guy anymore. Could probably do well enough as a caretaker type on a talented offense, but he simply can't make anyone better anymore.
Excited to see what the kid has.
It's way too early to say that IMO. These last 14 games are as much about evaluating Shurmur as they are getting Daniel Jones experience.
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Now hes going nowhere after this season.
Not necessarily, he will be given some grace on losses, but it will matter in what session the team loses.
In what fashion the team loses
Is there some kind of special election happening in November?
Noted. But why? The kid has to win immediately?
I hope not. That would mean Jones looks like garbage.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
I was just about to write this.
+1
The elections are this November.
Well fuck me with a crowbar.
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Got a lot more in return (Lawrence/Peppers+) for OBJ by signing and trading him then they would've if they let him walk. Basically spent $16M in cap space to turn a 3rd round comp pick into much better assets.
I'd bet bringing Eli back with a short leash was a compromise between DG and Mara.
Doesn't matter anymore. DGs legacy will be defined by Jones and whether or not he's a legit starting QB.
It's pretty clear that it was Shurmur pushing this....but I do think that part of the reason Mara relented was not wanting to see Eli retire with a losing record.
The ultimate irony is that it was McAdoo's decision to start Geno Smith that saved Eli from having a losing record!!!
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.
The elections are this November.
Well fuck me with a crowbar.
haha nah. I just think Jones will do fine but the defense will lose them games
Thank you
The Management
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In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Got a lot more in return (Lawrence/Peppers+) for OBJ by signing and trading him then they would've if they let him walk. Basically spent $16M in cap space to turn a 3rd round comp pick into much better assets.
I'd bet bringing Eli back with a short leash was a compromise between DG and Mara.
Doesn't matter anymore. DGs legacy will be defined by Jones and whether or not he's a legit starting QB.
The thing thats valuable about draft picks are that they are free.
Once you start paying $16-21 mil for them they aren't so great.
As an aside, I think they should talk to Eli about going someplace like Jax. They could use him
They had to commit to him before the draft. Before they could draft D Jones or know how ready he would be to play this year. I don't get the argument about money.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Well said arc and you pretty much summed up my thoughts as well.
The thing thats valuable about draft picks are that they are free.
Once you start paying $16-21 mil for them they aren't so great.
They aren't free, they get you players under team control for 4-5 years of below market value. Peppers/Lawrence don't even need to be pro bowlers to be worth $20M (over 4 years) more than a 3rd round comp pick. Granted, Peppers does need to play better than Curtis Riley...
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with Eli. He was always going to leave after this season anyway. All our dead cap money is tied to this year, with a fresh start next year. The money really makes no difference.
They had to commit to him before the draft. Before they could draft D Jones or know how ready he would be to play this year. I don't get the argument about money.
They could've cut Eli after the draft and still saved $11.5M, though that would've been a pretty dick thing to do to a guy like Eli.
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Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Well said arc and you pretty much summed up my thoughts as well.
Amen to this.
You probably jizzed all over your computer you got the news....
That said, it doesn't really matter that much. It was time, it's here, had to & was going to happen, for the most part no one will remember esp if he continues developing appropriately
Thanks Eli. Greatest NYG QB, and one of the Greatest NYGs ever
And lets goooo DJ! Don't F it up lol
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Let the anger reign.
You probably jizzed all over your computer you got the news....
I certainly didn't cry at my dinner table in front of my wife and kids unlike someone else..
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
1.) As a quiet Thank you for his years of service, but in return for...
2.) He would mentor the incoming replacement by showing him how to prepare, how to plan your day at the facility and how to read the field. The Giants are paying him handsomely for this, but he is the biggest icon in franchise history so it's easier to swallow. And picking up the option accomplished one more thing...
3.) It didn't tip the Giants hand on where they were going in the draft.
Again, this may be far fetched, but if they had a script for this move this makes a little sense.
Congrats. Be careful about your elbow.
The bandaid has been ripped off. Make it rain dimes, make it rain.
Agreed, This team desperately needs a spark and Tampa does not have a great defense so this is the right time to make the switch. Sterling Shepard will be back next week and hopefully Latimer and Slayton also.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
He's just not the guy anymore. Could probably do well enough as a caretaker type on a talented offense, but he simply can't make anyone better anymore.
Agree completely
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
You know what....I think that's an excellent point and I wouldn't put it past the ownership telling the coach to do make the move now to not tarnish the Eli Manning legacy further by saddling him with a losing record.
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of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I would agree. In fact A to C is probably least likely to most likely imo.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
Agreed.
This is the right move, but I fear a lot of bad moves will follow.
I just really hope both the fans and the media give him time and allow him to make rookie mistakes and not criticize him like hes a 15 year vet but i think some people are ready with their pitchforks the second jones makes a bad pass or turns the ball over .
Jones is clearly Shurmur's preference. You can practically see his toes curl when talking about him.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
That assumes they had full and final authority on the decision to keep Eli.
He turns 23 next week, but this Sunday we will be watching the beginning of the Daniel Jones era together. I'll record the game on the DVR, but it doesn't seem to have the same historical context.
He's pretty pumped, he's been on the ditch Eli bandwagon for a few years. I'm also excited, but I never wanted Eli to go out like this.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I don't rate either but Gettleman's shtick hasn't exactly been to be a pal to expensive veterans in Carolina and Shurmur clearly, clearly needs a QB with some mobility. Eli being on roster is fundamentally a decision that ownership approved. Gettleman and Shurmur carry some of the blame for it, but I think Mara is the main reason.
And I don't think Shurmur or Gettleman should be in post next year. The only case you could make for Shurmur is a radical turnaround with Jones looking very settled in his system (even then a lot of the good candidates will be associated with Reid next year and run a scheme with the same terminology), and if that's the case then I imagine the rising tide will lift Gettleman to safety as well.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
A pocket passer needs a physical 50/50 receiver. A competent org like Atlanta goes flying up the board to get Jones.
Jones is clearly Shurmur's preference. You can practically see his toes curl when talking about him.
The base of Shurmur's system is relatively common though. It's fundamentally Andy Reid's system in terms of terminology, and quietly Reid has one of if not the biggest coaching trees in the league. A lot of the major candidates for HC next year will be from the Reid tree.
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Yeah, it's, uh... it's not a good look is it?
Quote:
In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Yeah, it's, uh... it's not a good look is it?
i think its more likely that Mara handcuffed them by pushing for one last shot with Eli. id lean that direction over sheer incompetence.
Quote:
.
Noted. But why? The kid has to win immediately?
Suppose the Giants finish 3-13 and have secured a top 3 pick, and suppose by then the 3 top collegiate QBs have firmly established themselves as franchise-type guys. AND suppose that throughout that 3-13 season, Shurnur has continued to show he is not a good coach.
If they fire him, what if most or all of their candidates simply weren't impressed by Jones and want to take one of the promising QBs in the draft? Is that candidate disqualified?
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
Fantastic post.
It's clear the Giants hedged their bets on the situation, with the idea that Jones would watch and learn this year, but when he flashed more quickly than they anticipated, that forced their hand. I would have done things differently, but the move is made and they're moving forward. That in itself should be a relief, even if it gives the usual suspects on the board more bile to spit.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
The Giants really screwed the second half of his career. Reese especially. What a joke.
I agree with you, great post.
Those who said Eli getting paid this year was in appreciation of what he's done, and suffered through - if true I am OK with that too. Eli can still mentor as a backup, help him understand what being a pro is.
I'll be wearing my Manning jersey at the local Giants bar Sunday with loads of pride.
Quote:
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
Terrific job Matt!
Quote:
In comment 14582840 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
I could instantly tell if its a run or not when Eli was PA or handing off out of shotgun. DJ8 has a great PA out of shotgun, precise machine like mechanics all around.
Eli has to win to keep his job.
0-2. Time for a change.
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
Absolutely perfectly said.
I know this might hurt his won loss legacy but would be a classy way to honor an al time giant great.
Wonder if Eli would go for this
Oh, I acknowledge it. I get it, it's a results business and people are ornery after years of failure.
But if the team turns it around and Jones plays better than advertised, does any of this stuff really matter? The only reason to be angry is if you truly believe the Giants could have fielded a Super Bowl-caliber team these last few years without Eli. I don't buy that for a second.
It's a free country, if you want to continue to be pessimistic about the team and management, go ahead. But at some point the past is just the past, and you move on with what you've got, like the team just did today.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
This was so obvious to me from his reactions on the field, to his comments to the media. We finally get to see what Shurmur can do with the handcuffs off.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
I think they think they can still win 7-8 games, probably where the evaluation was before the season. The defense is going to take time and I'm sure they knew it. The offense needs to carry them. They weren't so we are seeing Jones.
Quote:
Zeke's Alibi a lot of props for this. He said we could likely see Jones Week 3 because we were playing teams with great defenses.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
And for a road game, Tampa is one of the least intimidating places to play for an opposing QB. The majority of fans will probably be Giants fans, and with Jones first start, even more so. Let him get this game under his belt before his first home start.
I know most of us are all about winning but we have to be prepared for what we are about to see this season, and what commitment to rebuilding means. Even if rookie Daniel Jones is better than fading-into-the-sunset Eli Manning, I can't see that being enough to suddenly turn this team into a winner, especially with the current caliber of the defense.
Eli went 1-6 as a rookie starter; Peyton Manning went 3-13.
I'm expecting typical rookie play from our first pick and too many fumbles, bad decisions, etc. Can he go 3-11, 4-10 as a rookie? Will he even start the next 14 games? In any case I will not be upset with this move even if the losing continues because it's likely that the team would not win much this year with Eli and that next year, Daniel Jones will have figured it out with a season under his belt.
going into the season, I didn't think it would happen so soon. i expected maybe for the cards game, or after the bye. i would have been shocked if Eli lasted the season and we made the playoffs, but you never know, and that's why you play the games. so, it turned out after game 2.
Easy Daniel Jones.
Quote:
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
Yep I pick C. If he takes care of the ball better (fumbles) I am thinking he does really well for a couple of games until the tape gets out on him. Then he will be up and down like every other rookie QB ever... lol
Interestingly, I don't really think about his bad days. I just remember 2007 and 2011.
"Manning lobs it, Burress alone! Touchdown New York!"
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
Quote:
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
(C) is the path for most NFL QBs regardless of how good they become later in their career.
I know this might hurt his won loss legacy but would be a classy way to honor an al time giant great.
Wonder if Eli would go for this
I would have Eli come in for the last few drives at the end of the game... or for kneeldown after a win.
The 49ers did this with Joe Montana in the last regular season game of the '92 season.
Quote:
I disagree with is the now were tanking the season narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. Im very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. Hes been cooked for years now, its been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
Yea we completely disagree. Hes been terrible just like the last few years. Im surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isnt playing winning football and hasnt for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
Yea we completely disagree. Hes been terrible just like the last few years. Im surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isnt playing winning football and hasnt for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
If he was playing well, so what? It still wouldn't make any sense for him to be out there. This team is not winning anything regardless of what Eli does. THAT is the acknowledgement with this move.
If I am going to dream, it might as well be BIG!
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
This move takes guts. I'm proud of Shurmur/DG/Mara.
I heard:
Shurmur
Mara
Mathematically eliminated.
Mandate.
Not ready.
Blah blah blah.
It was time.
I told you ALL to:
"ADMIT IT"
It would be exciting if they announced Jones would start.
It is.
I was right.
On all counts.
Just sayin'
Have you watched the Bucs first two games ? They look like they are a very good defense.
1) Archie Manning's father committing suicide
2) Losing a child - tragic and extremely sad
3) Getting sick(or spouse) at a relatively young age
I was listening to talk radio in the Albany market and the host was very upset how Eli was treated and said he would go into Mara's office and dump his locker on the Mara's desk.
Eli Manning has led a charmed life. He is rich beyond most of our wildest dreams, he has a healthy family and has played in the NFL for 16 years. He is getting out in pretty good shape health wise.
Don't shed a tear for this guy. Love him, yes, but sad no.
He cant move back there and is no longer accurate watch the games and stop making excuses hes part of the problem
Agree 100% it was spot on! I'd like to add Does Daniel Jones give us a better chance of winning, right now the answer is truly I don't know, but he can get his real game experience in and we can see what we have in our #1 draft pick.
The defense has sucked donkey balls, but the O only showed occasional flashes, and Eli never seemed to be part of the solution. He was ruined by years of horrible line play, and is still fighting off the shell shock.
30 touches Sunday, it will make all the difference. Calling that too.
Sorry to say its time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more seasoning .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! Ive organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I cant make this one! ShT!
Good Luck Daniel
Thank You Eli!!
Let's go Daniel Jones!
Quote:
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his
career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
Zero answers ?????
They punted 6-7 times ..... the defense was bad but gave them something at least
For the 5000th time, Reese did not make decisions in a vacuum, lots of input from TC and Mara. He was the GM and presided over some poor drafts so he earned his exit. But he also was GM for some very good drafts that led to 2 Super Bowls. Without that 2007 draft, and picking up Kawika Mitchell (which was mocked by most at the time) no SB 42. Without JPP, Nicks, Cruz and Manningham, no SB 46.
Can we move on from TC, Reese and Eli without crapping on any of them? They brought us two of the most incredible runs any team has ever had!!!
Quote:
In comment 14582913 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
Amazing post Matt. Thank you.
To Eli, I love you man you were the BEST.
^^^ Correct. Thank you.
Bold. Brilliant. Beautiful.
The season is now instantly watchable again. Hopefully Jones is the future. Either way, it's absolutely necessary to start him now. With this defense, a top 5 pick is a lock. Gots to know if Jones is the future under center comes next April.
Taking the sentimentality out of it, that was the better way to manage the roster. Sentimentality for Eli and for the hope, now obviously dashed, that this was a team that could compete.
Francesa was brutal on Shurmur yesterday, just brutal. After questioning his bona fides to lead this team, any team, with his career losing record, after Shurmur call ended, the Pope called the team 'putrid'. He's still bent out of shape in his belief that DG lied to him.
I still think that their tenure in NY is completely tied to the success of DJ.
Should be interesting to watch.
2) Eli does not start another game unless Jones is injured. Starting another game risks giving Eli a below .500 career record
3) Management kept Eli because they thought the Giants had enough talent to contend and doubted that a new quarterback would be better
4) Giants made the move to Jones because they think Jones is actually a better quarterback than Eli
I think it's predictable how guys on this team will feel about this change.
They could explain that Eli got paid 2 months before the 2019 draft.
I still think that their tenure in NY is completely tied to the success of DJ.
Should be interesting to watch.
so hopefully Jones has a decent game it was
gonna come sooner or later . but he will have
Tate for the Vikings game so that will help .
I doubt it will get any worse under Jones
than it was with Eli really wasn't how I expected thing to unfold . Coach is now on the hot seat IMO he
can't blame Eli anymore .
Sorry to say its time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more seasoning .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! Ive organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I cant make this one! ShT!
Good Luck Daniel
Thank You Eli!!
I'll be going to the Washington game!
Do I get to see Jones vs Haskins!?
I have a good feeling about this kid, but I'm not expecting miracles.
This team has plenty of needs that haven't been fixed yet, but putting a fresh arm who is more mobile than the future Hall Of Fame player he's replacing is a massive step.
GO BIG BLUE & DJ!
Golden parachute contract, just like Jonathan Stewart last year.
Because a generational RB needs to 'learn the ropes'.
I heard:
Shurmur
Mara
Mathematically eliminated.
Mandate.
Not ready.
Blah blah blah.
It was time.
I told you ALL to:
"ADMIT IT"
It would be exciting if they announced Jones would start.
It is.
I was right.
On all counts.
Just sayin'
Is there anything lamer than an I told you so asshole?
He had to play behind a horrible OL but the truth is that his lack of mobility made it worse and was like the perfect storm for an innefective offense.
We really cannot get any worse right now and we know at this point we are what we are with Eli.
NY sports fans are so afraid of change
Quote:
In comment 14582537 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Yeah, it's, uh... it's not a good look is it?
i think its more likely that Mara handcuffed them by pushing for one last shot with Eli. id lean that direction over sheer incompetence.
Also not a good look.
made the OLine respectable - yeah brilliant rationale for firing DG.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
Quote:
In comment 14582913 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
Agree with a lot of this.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
Quote:
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
Why? Tampa Bay's defense is nothing special against the pass. Shepard is also more than likely back this week. Guys usually don't miss two weeks with a concussion and there were promising signs last week that he'd play.
Quote:
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
I like Jones. I think he has the chance to be really good. But throwing him into the current situation is just stupid, imo. At least wait until Tate and Shepard are back. At least wait until the defense maybe comes together a little bit. It's a panic move.
First off, the WR's that will be playing are the ones he has played the most with. Secondly, how do you know SS won't be back? Third, there is NEVER a perfect time but the Bucs are a very good opportunity to get off on the right foot..
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
Quote:
1. I don't think anyone expected the Giants were going to make a playoff run this year. This move was bound to happen at some point in the season. But why now? If Giants were going to make this move at the first sign of adversity, they should have parted ways with Manning after Jones was drafted. This stinks of panic and desperation.
2. Is quarterback play the reason Giants are 0-2?
3. Who are the offensive playmakers on this team other than Saquon Barkley? Which of the no-name wide receivers who played Sunday has the ability to get open and stretch a defense?
4. Has anyone noticed the defense really stinks?
5. If Giants really have a double-secret "plan" that involves letting the rookies on D learn on the job, struggling through another double-digit loss season, getting another top-ten draft pick while loading up on cap room, they should have released Manning before the season. Benching him is worse.
6. I get the "team culture" mantra coming from management. But apparently, "culture" can't cover a tight end over the middle, catch the damn ball, or get the defense off the field on third down. Giants haven't had a playmaker on defense in years.
7. Anyone else see some guy named Odell Beckham Jr. play last night. Hell of a receiver. I wish the Giants had someone like him.
8. Compare Giants ownership/management/coaching to (and I hate to say it) Dallas, (choke) Philadelphia, New Orleans, the Rams, even Buffalo. They know what's going on. We do not.
9. I'm still pissed about the Beckham trade. To quote the guy who traded him, "you don't give up on talent." OBJ may be a pain in the ass. So was LT. You find a way to make it work.
10. This is a 1,000 times worse than the McAdoo disaster.
You lost on #9 for sure and #10 is fucking laughable.. You don't like Jones, seems pretty obvious. You guys who cry over the Eli Benching make me laugh. Same people begging for Sam Darnold last year...
Your assumptions are rather off the mark.
I like Jones. Liked drafting him at #6. I think he has the goods to be a franchise QB. I liked drafting Barkley.
Laughable? Did you see OBJ play last night. Mayfield was having a rather mediocre game until that play. That's what Beckham does.
Done is done. Now we'll see what the kids made of and how his game translates vs real NFL players and defenses. I think it will be rough going for a while, then he and the defense will make progress for 2020. Ultimately we'll be picking in the 3-8 range in next years Draft.
I think Mara and DG looked at the team as a whole and decided that even if Eli isn't the problem, the team wasn't going anywhere this season. And it's better to sit Eli down without having a losing record as a Giant.
I truly believe that was part of the decision. Just my opinion.
That said, I root for the sweater. I am all in on Daniel Jones. Bring me my pom poms.
Are you more interested in Sunday's game?
You are.
If they lose next week are you still interested in watching the rest of the season?
You are.
That is how Mara,DG and Shurmur thought you would feel. It is far better than the alternative
That said, I root for the sweater. I am all in on Daniel Jones. Bring me my pom poms.
Too soon to give up on Eli??? What rock have you been living under, give me the details because it must be comfortable as hell
Jesus. I know youre Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
Quote:
Effusive Eli praise. It really holds up well.
Jesus. I know youre Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
Why anyone takes anything DG says seriously blows my mind. Do you think he really meant that. He says that because it doesn't cause controversy and he is the guy until he isn't. Their actions show what the really think. Remember when he had the conversation with Eli and said he was a mensch. Sounds to me like he was trying to get Eli to retire at that point. Drafted a qb at 6 and people still thought Eli was going to play here for years. Gotta read between the lines with DG, people think he is some fool, which is probably exactly what he wants you to think.
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
1. "I knew he was a pro QB after the 3 drives in the Sr Bowl" - of which one was half ending. Maybe he DID like what he saw, but do we believe that's ALL he used to make his #6 pick?
2. "Green Bay / KC Model." Iirc both comments were very hypothetical, esp the "in 3 years" implication. He was just saying anything could happen from here, even something like this. Mostly in responses to when DJ is playing, what it means for Eli
I'm not defending him as flawless, but many miss obvious sarcasm or hyperbole. Then if you listen to him the Boston townie vibe rarely sits well for a NY crowd. That aside from us taking single soundbytes or statements completely out of context, pretty much 100% of the time
Quote:
In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Right, but I would have given him his 5 million roster bonus than cut him after the draft. The 5 million is well worth the draft capital you may save yourself.
Quote:
In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
You never thought of this until now? People have been talking about it since the draft.
Mike, that's valid but I thought of another. Money. DJ is more likely to fill seats and gather media attention than Manning. With Eli back there, the stadium would be 1/2 empty by the end of October.
DJ's jersey sales will really take off now.
Quote:
In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
Had they released him prior to the draft they would have given away their draft plans.
I never thought of this until now. I never had a problem with keeping and starting Eli this season even with the jones pick in mind but this is salient point.
Had Eli been released early, other teams would suspect that the Giants would grab a QB. Which one and if the G-men would trade up/down would still have been a question.
Quote:
Effusive Eli praise. It really holds up well.
Jesus. I know youre Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
Quote:
In comment 14584253 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Effusive Eli praise. It really holds up well.
Jesus. I know youre Hammer but why do you always have to be such a fucking tool?
I have no idea why you're angrily defensive about this while we're 8-24 as a franchise since 2017. Sure, let's put on a superhero cape for management and stand up for how they do business.
TTH, I think he took your comment as a swipe at Manning. I admit I thought the same, but I have been known to totally miss the intended point of a comment or two.