possibly from the offseason w/ Eli, but definitely how PS delivered the msg in the last couple days
That said, it doesn't really matter that much. It was time, it's here, had to & was going to happen, for the most part no one will remember esp if he continues developing appropriately
Thanks Eli. Greatest NYG QB, and one of the Greatest NYGs ever
And lets goooo DJ! Don't F it up lol
RE: RE: It's now the pre-season HOF'ers time to start.
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
The amount of crap being thrown at Eli by Non-Giant fans is going crazy right now. Like everyone here I am super appreciative for Eli. There are people who have waited years to watch their teams win a Super Bowl and Eli gave me two. Thank you Eli!!!!
but Matt in SGS alluded to this in an earlier thread, but during that Eli/Gettleman talk after last season, Eli may have told him he was retiring after his contract is up. Although it doesn't make financial sense, I can see the Giants picking up his option for a few reasons:
1.) As a quiet Thank you for his years of service, but in return for...
2.) He would mentor the incoming replacement by showing him how to prepare, how to plan your day at the facility and how to read the field. The Giants are paying him handsomely for this, but he is the biggest icon in franchise history so it's easier to swallow. And picking up the option accomplished one more thing...
3.) It didn't tip the Giants hand on where they were going in the draft.
Again, this may be far fetched, but if they had a script for this move this makes a little sense.
on Sy's review. This game is the perfect spot to do this and honestly, Jones gives this team the best chance to win.
Agreed, This team desperately needs a spark and Tampa does not have a great defense so this is the right time to make the switch. Sterling Shepard will be back next week and hopefully Latimer and Slayton also.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Regardless of the fact that this is overdue, it's a lousy way for a team legend to go out. It sucked when Simms was released in 1994 and this sucks today.
He's just not the guy anymore. Could probably do well enough as a caretaker type on a talented offense, but he simply can't make anyone better anymore.
We have to find out if Gettleman was right about this guy. I don't think he was, but we'll see.
I agree. For all anyone knows, we will be seeing our own version of Ryan Tannehill. DG hasn't shown himself to be a terribly astute judge of talent or evaluation.
they didn't make lightly. This has to be Daniel Jones' team now permanently. Putting him in and pulling him out at any point can only hurt his confidence.
I hear you, but it's football. Guys get into the lineup and go out of the lineup. What you don't want is a vacillating HC. Jones is the guy now, and he's going to get a long look, but if he has to come out and that breaks his confidence, he's not cut out for the job.
Eli still has a .500 record. Playing another few games would have made it worse. I actually hope that the Giants release him so he can find another team this season that needs a QB. Dont try to trade him, just send him on his way so he can choose where he wants to play.
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Eli still has a .500 record. Playing another few games would have made it worse. I actually hope that the Giants release him so he can find another team this season that needs a QB. Dont try to trade him, just send him on his way so he can choose where he wants to play.
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
You know what....I think that's an excellent point and I wouldn't put it past the ownership telling the coach to do make the move now to not tarnish the Eli Manning legacy further by saddling him with a losing record.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I would agree. In fact A to C is probably least likely to most likely imo.
behind a team with no WRs to speak of and a terrible defense. Shurmur sees more options with Jones and his ability to get the ball out quick and use his movement to keep plays alive. Eli is too slow to play on a team as flawed as this one and be competitive. MO
But i am happy that i have something to look forward to now in hopefully watching the next franchise QB grow and learn on the job.
I just really hope both the fans and the media give him time and allow him to make rookie mistakes and not criticize him like hes a 15 year vet but i think some people are ready with their pitchforks the second jones makes a bad pass or turns the ball over .
Now the thing you have to hope for is Jones isn't some system QB
and into the season. Trying to win with Eli has to have been weighing on him, even if he had support from DG to make an early change to Jones. Now, we'll see if he was right on Jones.
RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
My son was 8 when Eli played his first game - I made him sit down and watch, although most of the time he was on his Game Boy or whatever the hand held gaming device was back then. I actually recorded the game on the VCR. I'm not sure I even own one anymore, but I have the cassette.
He turns 23 next week, but this Sunday we will be watching the beginning of the Daniel Jones era together. I'll record the game on the DVR, but it doesn't seem to have the same historical context.
He's pretty pumped, he's been on the ditch Eli bandwagon for a few years. I'm also excited, but I never wanted Eli to go out like this.
RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I don't rate either but Gettleman's shtick hasn't exactly been to be a pal to expensive veterans in Carolina and Shurmur clearly, clearly needs a QB with some mobility. Eli being on roster is fundamentally a decision that ownership approved. Gettleman and Shurmur carry some of the blame for it, but I think Mara is the main reason.
And I don't think Shurmur or Gettleman should be in post next year. The only case you could make for Shurmur is a radical turnaround with Jones looking very settled in his system (even then a lot of the good candidates will be associated with Reid next year and run a scheme with the same terminology), and if that's the case then I imagine the rising tide will lift Gettleman to safety as well.
RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
RE: Think the deciding factor was ELI's poor mobility
behind a team with no WRs to speak of and a terrible defense. Shurmur sees more options with Jones and his ability to get the ball out quick and use his movement to keep plays alive. Eli is too slow to play on a team as flawed as this one and be competitive. MO
A pocket passer needs a physical 50/50 receiver. A competent org like Atlanta goes flying up the board to get Jones.
RE: Now the thing you have to hope for is Jones isn't some system QB
that's so fit to Shurmur that it's a problem if they change coaches.
Jones is clearly Shurmur's preference. You can practically see his toes curl when talking about him.
The base of Shurmur's system is relatively common though. It's fundamentally Andy Reid's system in terms of terminology, and quietly Reid has one of if not the biggest coaching trees in the league. A lot of the major candidates for HC next year will be from the Reid tree.
Suppose the Giants finish 3-13 and have secured a top 3 pick, and suppose by then the 3 top collegiate QBs have firmly established themselves as franchise-type guys. AND suppose that throughout that 3-13 season, Shurnur has continued to show he is not a good coach.
If they fire him, what if most or all of their candidates simply weren't impressed by Jones and want to take one of the promising QBs in the draft? Is that candidate disqualified?
RE: RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
If they kept struggling with Eli, people would complain that they were depriving Jones of valuable learning time. Now that they've made the switch (a move many said wouldn't happen until at least week 6 or 7 because of over-conservative management, etc.), and all we hear about is the sunk cost with Eli.
It's clear the Giants hedged their bets on the situation, with the idea that Jones would watch and learn this year, but when he flashed more quickly than they anticipated, that forced their hand. I would have done things differently, but the move is made and they're moving forward. That in itself should be a relief, even if it gives the usual suspects on the board more bile to spit.
It's just a matter of taste if you don't want to see it. I can understand why there would be fatigue from it, but the point is real, and it's another notch against how this team does their business, which leaves room to be desired.
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
The Giants really screwed the second half of his career. Reese especially. What a joke.
I agree with you, great post.
Those who said Eli getting paid this year was in appreciation of what he's done, and suffered through - if true I am OK with that too. Eli can still mentor as a backup, help him understand what being a pro is.
I'll be wearing my Manning jersey at the local Giants bar Sunday with loads of pride.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
RE: RE: I said this in another thread and I'll say it again here
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
I could instantly tell if its a run or not when Eli was PA or handing off out of shotgun. DJ8 has a great PA out of shotgun, precise machine like mechanics all around.
Danny Jones should invigorate the team and fan base. Giants were stuck in neutral with Eli these past few years, clinging to past glories. Did Mara finally cave into Shurmer and Gettelman? Jones is ready for live ammunition. I really want to get back on the bandwagon.
You probably jizzed all over your computer you got the news....
That said, it doesn't really matter that much. It was time, it's here, had to & was going to happen, for the most part no one will remember esp if he continues developing appropriately
Thanks Eli. Greatest NYG QB, and one of the Greatest NYGs ever
And lets goooo DJ! Don't F it up lol
Quote:
Let the anger reign.
You probably jizzed all over your computer you got the news....
I certainly didn't cry at my dinner table in front of my wife and kids unlike someone else..
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
1.) As a quiet Thank you for his years of service, but in return for...
2.) He would mentor the incoming replacement by showing him how to prepare, how to plan your day at the facility and how to read the field. The Giants are paying him handsomely for this, but he is the biggest icon in franchise history so it's easier to swallow. And picking up the option accomplished one more thing...
3.) It didn't tip the Giants hand on where they were going in the draft.
Again, this may be far fetched, but if they had a script for this move this makes a little sense.
Congrats. Be careful about your elbow.
The bandaid has been ripped off. Make it rain dimes, make it rain.
Agreed, This team desperately needs a spark and Tampa does not have a great defense so this is the right time to make the switch. Sterling Shepard will be back next week and hopefully Latimer and Slayton also.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
He's just not the guy anymore. Could probably do well enough as a caretaker type on a talented offense, but he simply can't make anyone better anymore.
Agree completely
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Eli is a high character guy but everyone has to face father time. He had a great career but the bottom was falling out and he needed to be replaced. He can be a solid QB on a good team but he needs a supporting cast. maybe he will have another run with a different team.
I think Shurmur wanted this sooner but ownership wanted to hang on to Eli. I dont think Shurmur set Eli up for success by running the O we did, he needed to make it fit Eli better to take advantage of what Eli does best. Shurmur played this in the media yesterday to put the pressure on ownership to make the move. It once again was handled poorly. The media should not be the 1st to hear the news. Eli deserved better. I am and was a proponent of replacing Eli but the Giants have failed to handle this situation the way they should. Eli deserved better.
You know what....I think that's an excellent point and I wouldn't put it past the ownership telling the coach to do make the move now to not tarnish the Eli Manning legacy further by saddling him with a losing record.
Quote:
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I would agree. In fact A to C is probably least likely to most likely imo.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
Agreed.
This is the right move, but I fear a lot of bad moves will follow.
I just really hope both the fans and the media give him time and allow him to make rookie mistakes and not criticize him like hes a 15 year vet but i think some people are ready with their pitchforks the second jones makes a bad pass or turns the ball over .
Jones is clearly Shurmur's preference. You can practically see his toes curl when talking about him.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
That assumes they had full and final authority on the decision to keep Eli.
He turns 23 next week, but this Sunday we will be watching the beginning of the Daniel Jones era together. I'll record the game on the DVR, but it doesn't seem to have the same historical context.
He's pretty pumped, he's been on the ditch Eli bandwagon for a few years. I'm also excited, but I never wanted Eli to go out like this.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I don't rate either but Gettleman's shtick hasn't exactly been to be a pal to expensive veterans in Carolina and Shurmur clearly, clearly needs a QB with some mobility. Eli being on roster is fundamentally a decision that ownership approved. Gettleman and Shurmur carry some of the blame for it, but I think Mara is the main reason.
And I don't think Shurmur or Gettleman should be in post next year. The only case you could make for Shurmur is a radical turnaround with Jones looking very settled in his system (even then a lot of the good candidates will be associated with Reid next year and run a scheme with the same terminology), and if that's the case then I imagine the rising tide will lift Gettleman to safety as well.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
A pocket passer needs a physical 50/50 receiver. A competent org like Atlanta goes flying up the board to get Jones.
Jones is clearly Shurmur's preference. You can practically see his toes curl when talking about him.
The base of Shurmur's system is relatively common though. It's fundamentally Andy Reid's system in terms of terminology, and quietly Reid has one of if not the biggest coaching trees in the league. A lot of the major candidates for HC next year will be from the Reid tree.
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to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Yeah, it's, uh... it's not a good look is it?
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In comment 14582372 jintz4life said:
Quote:
to keep eli at his salary for this season
This needs to be the story. In a year this team has:
- Signed Beckham to a massive contact only to trade him
- Opted not to release Eli to save $17M in cap space so he could play two games
Gettleman should be fired fucking today, and Shurmur with him. Idiots.
Yeah, it's, uh... it's not a good look is it?
i think its more likely that Mara handcuffed them by pushing for one last shot with Eli. id lean that direction over sheer incompetence.
Quote:
.
Noted. But why? The kid has to win immediately?
Suppose the Giants finish 3-13 and have secured a top 3 pick, and suppose by then the 3 top collegiate QBs have firmly established themselves as franchise-type guys. AND suppose that throughout that 3-13 season, Shurnur has continued to show he is not a good coach.
If they fire him, what if most or all of their candidates simply weren't impressed by Jones and want to take one of the promising QBs in the draft? Is that candidate disqualified?
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Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
Fantastic post.
It's clear the Giants hedged their bets on the situation, with the idea that Jones would watch and learn this year, but when he flashed more quickly than they anticipated, that forced their hand. I would have done things differently, but the move is made and they're moving forward. That in itself should be a relief, even if it gives the usual suspects on the board more bile to spit.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
The Giants really screwed the second half of his career. Reese especially. What a joke.
I agree with you, great post.
Those who said Eli getting paid this year was in appreciation of what he's done, and suffered through - if true I am OK with that too. Eli can still mentor as a backup, help him understand what being a pro is.
I'll be wearing my Manning jersey at the local Giants bar Sunday with loads of pride.
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of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
Terrific job Matt!
Quote:
In comment 14582840 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
I definitely agree, but I certainly am not ruling out A.
He really was capable of hitting guys in stride and dropping perfectly catchable spirals right in the bucket. His footwork and play fakes looked outstanding... just so much faster than what we have seen of Eli lately. And he likely won't be changing the play at the line as dramatically, for better or first worse. It could actually be better.
The fumbles though... they are a concern for sure.
I could instantly tell if its a run or not when Eli was PA or handing off out of shotgun. DJ8 has a great PA out of shotgun, precise machine like mechanics all around.