Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
It's just a matter of taste if you don't want to see it. I can understand why there would be fatigue from it, but the point is real, and it's another notch against how this team does their business, which leaves room to be desired.
Oh, I acknowledge it. I get it, it's a results business and people are ornery after years of failure.
But if the team turns it around and Jones plays better than advertised, does any of this stuff really matter? The only reason to be angry is if you truly believe the Giants could have fielded a Super Bowl-caliber team these last few years without Eli. I don't buy that for a second.
It's a free country, if you want to continue to be pessimistic about the team and management, go ahead. But at some point the past is just the past, and you move on with what you've got, like the team just did today.
I disagree with is the “now we’re tanking the season” narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
Zeke's Alibi a lot of props for this. He said we could likely see Jones Week 3 because we were playing teams with great defenses.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
RE: You could also see the stress in Shumur's face throughout camp Â
and into the season. Trying to win with Eli has to have been weighing on him, even if he had support from DG to make an early change to Jones. Now, we'll see if he was right on Jones.
This was so obvious to me from his reactions on the field, to his comments to the media. We finally get to see what Shurmur can do with the handcuffs off.
I disagree with is the “now we’re tanking the season” narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
I think they think they can still win 7-8 games, probably where the evaluation was before the season. The defense is going to take time and I'm sure they knew it. The offense needs to carry them. They weren't so we are seeing Jones.
Zeke's Alibi a lot of props for this. He said we could likely see Jones Week 3 because we were playing teams with great defenses.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
And for a road game, Tampa is one of the least intimidating places to play for an opposing QB. The majority of fans will probably be Giants fans, and with Jones first start, even more so. Let him get this game under his belt before his first home start.
So going to Jones is the correct move, even if it is bittersweet. Will always love and respect Eli but glad to see that the Giants have accepted the rebuilding that we knew was inevitable.
I know most of us are all about winning but we have to be prepared for what we are about to see this season, and what commitment to rebuilding means. Even if rookie Daniel Jones is better than fading-into-the-sunset Eli Manning, I can't see that being enough to suddenly turn this team into a winner, especially with the current caliber of the defense.
Eli went 1-6 as a rookie starter; Peyton Manning went 3-13.
I'm expecting typical rookie play from our first pick and too many fumbles, bad decisions, etc. Can he go 3-11, 4-10 as a rookie? Will he even start the next 14 games? In any case I will not be upset with this move even if the losing continues because it's likely that the team would not win much this year with Eli and that next year, Daniel Jones will have figured it out with a season under his belt.
after the last game, it felt like it was time to have DJ replace Eli.
going into the season, I didn't think it would happen so soon. i expected maybe for the cards game, or after the bye. i would have been shocked if Eli lasted the season and we made the playoffs, but you never know, and that's why you play the games. so, it turned out after game 2.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
Yep I pick C. If he takes care of the ball better (fumbles) I am thinking he does really well for a couple of games until the tape gets out on him. Then he will be up and down like every other rookie QB ever... lol
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
I disagree with is the “now we’re tanking the season” narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
(C) is the path for most NFL QBs regardless of how good they become later in their career.
I disagree with is the “now we’re tanking the season” narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
Yea we completely disagree. He’s been terrible just like the last few years. I’m surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isn’t playing winning football and hasn’t for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
Yea we completely disagree. He’s been terrible just like the last few years. I’m surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isn’t playing winning football and hasn’t for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
If he was playing well, so what? It still wouldn't make any sense for him to be out there. This team is not winning anything regardless of what Eli does. THAT is the acknowledgement with this move.
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
Wow we actually have named Daniel Jones as the teams starting QB. The Eli Manning era at the New York Giants is probably finished. As a fan this feels so strange but it's surely the correct decision so let's see how it all play's out I guess.
Change how bad of a coach Shurmur is. Eli should have played this next game or 2 against easier defenses. Hopefully Jones doesn't fumble 4 times and they run the damn ball.
Have you watched the Bucs first two games ? They look like they are a very good defense.
1) Archie Manning's father committing suicide
2) Losing a child - tragic and extremely sad
3) Getting sick(or spouse) at a relatively young age
I was listening to talk radio in the Albany market and the host was very upset how Eli was treated and said he would go into Mara's office and dump his locker on the Mara's desk.
Eli Manning has led a charmed life. He is rich beyond most of our wildest dreams, he has a healthy family and has played in the NFL for 16 years. He is getting out in pretty good shape health wise.
Don't shed a tear for this guy. Love him, yes, but sad no.
Agree 100% it was spot on! I'd like to add Does Daniel Jones give us a better chance of winning, right now the answer is truly I don't know, but he can get his real game experience in and we can see what we have in our #1 draft pick.
didn't click with Eli. Maybe it's his fault, maybe the offense style wasn't a good fit for him.
The defense has sucked donkey balls, but the O only showed occasional flashes, and Eli never seemed to be part of the solution. He was ruined by years of horrible line play, and is still fighting off the shell shock.
Sorry to say it’s time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more ‘seasoning’ .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! I’ve organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I can’t make this one! Sh—T!
Good Luck Daniel
Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his
career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
Zero answers ?????
They punted 6-7 times ..... the defense was bad but gave them something at least
He'll feel the attention of the media but at least he won't have to deal with the weight of fan expectations from 80k plus in the crowd in his first start. And Tampa is a far cry from the old blackhole.
Come on with the Reese ruining Eli's last few seasons Â
I'll argue that Eli got Reese fired. Reese and McAdoo saw declining play and wanted to start the transition and were fired after coming off an 11-5 season. I wonder how much they pushed to get Mahomes, that we be interesting to know.
For the 5000th time, Reese did not make decisions in a vacuum, lots of input from TC and Mara. He was the GM and presided over some poor drafts so he earned his exit. But he also was GM for some very good drafts that led to 2 Super Bowls. Without that 2007 draft, and picking up Kawika Mitchell (which was mocked by most at the time) no SB 42. Without JPP, Nicks, Cruz and Manningham, no SB 46.
Can we move on from TC, Reese and Eli without crapping on any of them? They brought us two of the most incredible runs any team has ever had!!!
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
By starting Jones. I think it is the right move but make no mistake this teams WR Corp very poor until Shep and Tate return.
To Eli, I love you man you were the BEST.
He adds a little bit more to the offense, because of his running ability. Its just a small part, but Defenses will have to be prepared for him to tuck it and run. Just a little added dimension to the offensive game. If they load the box, Shumur needs to adjust.
The season is now instantly watchable again. Hopefully Jones is the future. Either way, it's absolutely necessary to start him now. With this defense, a top 5 pick is a lock. Gots to know if Jones is the future under center comes next April.
Correct, and Francesa's point was correct all along: how do you allocate resources to a QB drafted 6 and pay the incumbent $20mm, a gross misuse of scarce cap dollars where the $$ could have been used where sorely needed.
Taking the sentimentality out of it, that was the better way to manage the roster. Sentimentality for Eli and for the hope, now obviously dashed, that this was a team that could compete.
Francesa was brutal on Shurmur yesterday, just brutal. After questioning his bona fides to lead this team, any team, with his career losing record, after Shurmur call ended, the Pope called the team 'putrid'. He's still bent out of shape in his belief that DG lied to him.
Eli has to win to keep his job.
0-2. Time for a change.
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
Absolutely perfectly said.
I know this might hurt his won loss legacy but would be a classy way to honor an al time giant great.
Wonder if Eli would go for this
Oh, I acknowledge it. I get it, it's a results business and people are ornery after years of failure.
But if the team turns it around and Jones plays better than advertised, does any of this stuff really matter? The only reason to be angry is if you truly believe the Giants could have fielded a Super Bowl-caliber team these last few years without Eli. I don't buy that for a second.
It's a free country, if you want to continue to be pessimistic about the team and management, go ahead. But at some point the past is just the past, and you move on with what you've got, like the team just did today.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
This was so obvious to me from his reactions on the field, to his comments to the media. We finally get to see what Shurmur can do with the handcuffs off.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
I think they think they can still win 7-8 games, probably where the evaluation was before the season. The defense is going to take time and I'm sure they knew it. The offense needs to carry them. They weren't so we are seeing Jones.
Quote:
Zeke's Alibi a lot of props for this. He said we could likely see Jones Week 3 because we were playing teams with great defenses.
While we aren't really seeing Jones because of the opposing defenses more than our own - he was right on the money.
Hopefully the team rallies around Jones and the D gets it's act together and we can compete.
It seemed kind of obvious to me. If it wasn't done this week, we'd have to wait until the Cards game. People are talking about this Bucs defense in the media like it is good under Bowles. It is not.
And for a road game, Tampa is one of the least intimidating places to play for an opposing QB. The majority of fans will probably be Giants fans, and with Jones first start, even more so. Let him get this game under his belt before his first home start.
I know most of us are all about winning but we have to be prepared for what we are about to see this season, and what commitment to rebuilding means. Even if rookie Daniel Jones is better than fading-into-the-sunset Eli Manning, I can't see that being enough to suddenly turn this team into a winner, especially with the current caliber of the defense.
Eli went 1-6 as a rookie starter; Peyton Manning went 3-13.
I'm expecting typical rookie play from our first pick and too many fumbles, bad decisions, etc. Can he go 3-11, 4-10 as a rookie? Will he even start the next 14 games? In any case I will not be upset with this move even if the losing continues because it's likely that the team would not win much this year with Eli and that next year, Daniel Jones will have figured it out with a season under his belt.
going into the season, I didn't think it would happen so soon. i expected maybe for the cards game, or after the bye. i would have been shocked if Eli lasted the season and we made the playoffs, but you never know, and that's why you play the games. so, it turned out after game 2.
Easy Daniel Jones.
Quote:
of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
C is the most likely outcome
Yep I pick C. If he takes care of the ball better (fumbles) I am thinking he does really well for a couple of games until the tape gets out on him. Then he will be up and down like every other rookie QB ever... lol
Interestingly, I don't really think about his bad days. I just remember 2007 and 2011.
"Manning lobs it, Burress alone! Touchdown New York!"
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
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of the Giants 19/20 season is complete: lose enough to move from Eli to Jones.
The next 14 games are Phase 2 and can go three directions:
A - Jones is decent to great, proving DG right to pick him at 6
B - Jones stinks up the joint, and DG ends up with massive amounts of eggs on his face
C - Jones shows flashes of talent but also makes enough mistakes to not really be sure
Let's put names to those scenarios. Does he look like Mayfield (A), Rosen (B), or Darnold (C) after the end of this season?
(C) is the path for most NFL QBs regardless of how good they become later in their career.
I know this might hurt his won loss legacy but would be a classy way to honor an al time giant great.
Wonder if Eli would go for this
I would have Eli come in for the last few drives at the end of the game... or for kneeldown after a win.
The 49ers did this with Joe Montana in the last regular season game of the '92 season.
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I disagree with is the “now we’re tanking the season” narrative.
I see it the opposite way: they are doing this to save the season. Eli is completely shot and giving the team no chance to win. I’m very thankful they did this because I literally could not watch another minute of Eli playing football. He’s been cooked for years now, it’s been painful to watch.
I completely disagree. I wouldn't use the word "tanking", but instead are merely acknowledging that this team isn't going anywhere regardless of how Eli Manning plays. In that case, the most important thing to do is get Daniel Jones on the field and start his process while evaluating literally everyone else (coaches and GM included) not named Saquon Barkley. This move isn't about this season at all and it isn't even about Eli Manning.
Yea we completely disagree. He’s been terrible just like the last few years. I’m surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isn’t playing winning football and hasn’t for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
Yea we completely disagree. He’s been terrible just like the last few years. I’m surprised you think this has nothing to do with his play. He isn’t playing winning football and hasn’t for years. Even 2016 the offense was an embarrassment.
If he was playing well, so what? It still wouldn't make any sense for him to be out there. This team is not winning anything regardless of what Eli does. THAT is the acknowledgement with this move.
If I am going to dream, it might as well be BIG!
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Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
This move takes guts. I'm proud of Shurmur/DG/Mara.
I heard:
Shurmur
Mara
Mathematically eliminated.
Mandate.
Not ready.
Blah blah blah.
It was time.
I told you ALL to:
"ADMIT IT"
It would be exciting if they announced Jones would start.
It is.
I was right.
On all counts.
Just sayin'
Have you watched the Bucs first two games ? They look like they are a very good defense.
1) Archie Manning's father committing suicide
2) Losing a child - tragic and extremely sad
3) Getting sick(or spouse) at a relatively young age
I was listening to talk radio in the Albany market and the host was very upset how Eli was treated and said he would go into Mara's office and dump his locker on the Mara's desk.
Eli Manning has led a charmed life. He is rich beyond most of our wildest dreams, he has a healthy family and has played in the NFL for 16 years. He is getting out in pretty good shape health wise.
Don't shed a tear for this guy. Love him, yes, but sad no.
He can’t move back there and is no longer accurate watch the games and stop making excuses he’s part of the problem
Agree 100% it was spot on! I'd like to add Does Daniel Jones give us a better chance of winning, right now the answer is truly I don't know, but he can get his real game experience in and we can see what we have in our #1 draft pick.
The defense has sucked donkey balls, but the O only showed occasional flashes, and Eli never seemed to be part of the solution. He was ruined by years of horrible line play, and is still fighting off the shell shock.
30 touches Sunday, it will make all the difference. Calling that too.
Sorry to say it’s time to move on. Would have liked Jones to get a little more ‘seasoning’ .
This is probably the best place (Tampa) to make the change! On the road but there will be lots of Giant fans there! I’ve organized probably the last 4 or 5 Florida games and I can’t make this one! Sh—T!
Good Luck Daniel
Thank You Eli!!
Let's go Daniel Jones!
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Sucks for Eli... this org failed him miserably. And now he gets sent to the bench after playing in a game where his WR's were Cody Latimer, Benny Fowler and Cody Kore against the toughest secondary (or one of) in football with a defense that had zero answers for anything the Bills... yes, the fucking Bills... did.
I don't feel bad for his pockets.. he's made plenty of money and had a pretty successful run.
But from an organizational standpoint... they just did a horrendous job of understanding the type of player he was and putting the right elements in place for him to succeed.
But... such is life. Onto the next chapter.
Agreed. Excellent post. It was time for Eli to go. He can't extend plays anymore, but he wasn't protected well enough for the second half of his
career. Reese simply couldn't draft any credible OL.
Zero answers ?????
They punted 6-7 times ..... the defense was bad but gave them something at least
For the 5000th time, Reese did not make decisions in a vacuum, lots of input from TC and Mara. He was the GM and presided over some poor drafts so he earned his exit. But he also was GM for some very good drafts that led to 2 Super Bowls. Without that 2007 draft, and picking up Kawika Mitchell (which was mocked by most at the time) no SB 42. Without JPP, Nicks, Cruz and Manningham, no SB 46.
Can we move on from TC, Reese and Eli without crapping on any of them? They brought us two of the most incredible runs any team has ever had!!!
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In comment 14582913 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman/Shurmur should be tied to the decision to keep Eli...not to Jones's performance.
Keeping Eli signaled an intent to win this year. So go win.
When they finish 3-13 a smart organization would fire them both.
I think the greater odds were the Mara wanted to see if Eli could recreate Simms 1993 season and go out winning and still playing at a high level. And the Giants hoped that would be the case.
I think it was a combination of things
- Eli was Eli. Meaning, he's pretty much the same guy he's been the past few years. He's going to make some throws, he's going to miss some throws. He's not going to improvise or do anything with his legs. And while he's not the reason you'll lose a game, he's not the reason you'll win one either. It's not hard to see that the fans/media were going to turn on Eli more and more in the coming weeks and that's a more uncomfortable way to bring in Jones, with it seeming like he's got blood on his hands.
- The defense is a work in progress and awful. Even if Eli played well, this team is not built to win shootouts, which is what's required right now for how bad the defense is. If you aren't winning, there is no point to play Eli since he was never coming back in 2020. I didn't buy for one second when the front office said it might be the "Aaron Rodgers model". We all knew this was how it would end.
- I said in the offseason, I thought after the Patriots game was the right time to evaluate and move on from Eli. But the combination of the above 2 factors, and lastly, Jones looked much better than I think we all thought. I think the Giants organization is legit in saying they were really impressed with him. Cutcliffe will get you a pro ready prospect and that's what Jones is. The question is how high will his ceiling be? Well, let him play and find out. In hindsight, and reading the Giants tea leaves as we have for many years, the hints were all there in the pre-season. The raves in OTAs, the preseason success, and even Shurmur saying "where are the people who didn't like him, I want to hear from them now". I think when the Giants saw that he was NFL ready, the rope that Eli had got shorter and shorter.
- Losing by 2 TDs at home vs. Buffalo was the end. Getting blown out in Dallas vs. a superior opponent was one thing. Getting beat down at home vs. a Bills team that was more in the Giants category showed that this team wasn't going anywhere. The Giants saw their measuring stick and knew that it wasn't good. There was no point to keep trotting Eli out there after that. You can lose games with Eli and Jones watching. Or you can lose games with Jones playing and getting experience.
- Eli's record might be a legit concern. I think the Giants are going to want to defend Eli's legacy here. We talked in the off-season about Eli's record and hurting his HOF chances. The Giants are going to keep dropping games with this defense and Eli will take the hit to his record. Let him walk away at least without a losing record. Let Eli mentor Jones, help him out this year (which was my suspicion that he might have told the Giants he was retiring and hastened their need to go QB in 2019). In the final home game, I'd do the ring of honor ceremony for him and send him off as a Giant great.
Either way, Eli Manning has been all that Ernie Accorsi could have hoped for when he made that trade. He's been a great Giant and he's given the organization so many amazing moments. Reese and Ross destroyed the remainder of his prime, and that will always be a shame. But at the end of the day, time marches on and Eli is a limited QB at this stage of his career, and has been that way for a number of years. The organization has finally ripped off the last bandaid to move things forward. Giving Jones 14 games in 2019 will set the Giants up in 2020, which is where things have always been pointed.
This should be stickied. I think this is 100% right on all counts.
Amazing post Matt. Thank you.
To Eli, I love you man you were the BEST.
^^^ Correct. Thank you.
Bold. Brilliant. Beautiful.
The season is now instantly watchable again. Hopefully Jones is the future. Either way, it's absolutely necessary to start him now. With this defense, a top 5 pick is a lock. Gots to know if Jones is the future under center comes next April.
Taking the sentimentality out of it, that was the better way to manage the roster. Sentimentality for Eli and for the hope, now obviously dashed, that this was a team that could compete.
Francesa was brutal on Shurmur yesterday, just brutal. After questioning his bona fides to lead this team, any team, with his career losing record, after Shurmur call ended, the Pope called the team 'putrid'. He's still bent out of shape in his belief that DG lied to him.