Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Never could understand the BBI narrative that Eli was...

M.S. : 9/17/2019 4:18 pm
...somehow screwed over by the Giants, especially Jerry Reese who bungled the Draft; put together cellar-dwelling offensive lines; etc. etc. etc.

Eli Manning was not screwed over by the Giants. His performance suffered due to the diminished talent around him, but it is much more the truth that the entire Giants franchise and its fans were the ones royally screwed, not Eli.

The Giants never intentionally planned anything bad against Eli Manning. They paid him millions; continue to do so; and Eli's performance and association with the Giants led to lucrative multi-million dollar endorsement deals.

IMO, the Eli Manning narrative is a very simple one. He had a great career with the Giants; he led them to two Super Bowl Championship titles; and he is ultimately a Hall of Fame quarterback.

Even on the day he lost his starting job to Daniel Jones, Eli Manning was not screwed over. And the switch is much more about getting Daniel Jones on the field then "punishing" Eli for his diminished performance. Indeed, there was really nothing to punish Eli about in 2019 given that the Giants are 0-2 primarily due to their young, inept defense.

There is no "bad news" Eli Manning ending. He has had a stellar career and hopefully he will finish it with grace and aplomb by helping Daniel Jones out in any way he can.
DJ could do far worse than  
Big Blue '56 : 9/17/2019 4:21 pm : link
having the support and commitment Eli will provide
there are quotes to suggest  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 4:23 pm : link
that both reese, and mcadoo, were not fans of eli, and in fact, the latter trashed him in the media in 2017 after losses, despite the fact that it was obvious the rest of the team was in a shambles and/or on injured reserve.

reese has called him "skittish" as early as 2007 i believe, and wasted at least four draft picks on mid/late round QBs. to me this suggests that after coughlin left, it was kind of open season on eli in the front office. but i might be way off.
2011  
rocco8112 : 9/17/2019 4:27 pm : link
Eli was king of the QB and NFL world. Since then, a joke.

Team was unable to build a defense, still can't. These past two weeks we have seen some competent line play, outside of those two weeks it has been over half a decade since that happened.

No consistent, TE, no carry the mail RB, until Barkley. Eli has had two careers here. One awesome, one not so much. Eli has never missed a game due to injury since being starter. That is insane, he took brutal hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and he never complained. He only missed a game when the idiot benched him two years again and now that Pat "I inherited a 3 -13
team " Shurmur has cashed in his insurance policy to get some of the heat off him and Gettlemen.

The Eli lightning rod is gone now fellas.

He is the best of all time. The fans got jobbed too, but the waste of the second half of Eli's career was a football crime. Crazy thing is, I STILL am not sure he is actually a top reason this team is one of the two worst in the NFL. I think that is why so many feel this way.
RE: DJ could do far worse than  
flycatcher : 9/17/2019 4:41 pm : link
In comment 14584199 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
having the support and commitment Eli will provide

YES, and thank goodness
Well said  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/17/2019 4:46 pm : link
I don't think he will feel he was. It is really, really hard to stay consistently good in the NFL. Like Archie said, he loves being a NY Giant.

To all those from the organisation who criticized him....where are they now?
RE: 2011  
Jints in Carolina : 9/17/2019 4:46 pm : link
In comment 14584216 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
Eli was king of the QB and NFL world. Since then, a joke.

Team was unable to build a defense, still can't. These past two weeks we have seen some competent line play, outside of those two weeks it has been over half a decade since that happened.

No consistent, TE, no carry the mail RB, until Barkley. Eli has had two careers here. One awesome, one not so much. Eli has never missed a game due to injury since being starter. That is insane, he took brutal hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and he never complained. He only missed a game when the idiot benched him two years again and now that Pat "I inherited a 3 -13
team " Shurmur has cashed in his insurance policy to get some of the heat off him and Gettlemen.

The Eli lightning rod is gone now fellas.

He is the best of all time. The fans got jobbed too, but the waste of the second half of Eli's career was a football crime. Crazy thing is, I STILL am not sure he is actually a top reason this team is one of the two worst in the NFL. I think that is why so many feel this way.


Eli doesn't play defense. This is some of the most hapless defense I have ever seen.
Does Anyone Think Giants Mismanagement  
clatterbuck : 9/17/2019 4:47 pm : link
was intentional? Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Ereck Flowers, John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse, Geoff Schwartz, Weston Richburg, et. al. happened. Ben McAdoo happened.
RE: 2011  
clatterbuck : 9/17/2019 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14584216 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
Eli was king of the QB and NFL world. Since then, a joke.

Team was unable to build a defense, still can't. These past two weeks we have seen some competent line play, outside of those two weeks it has been over half a decade since that happened.

No consistent, TE, no carry the mail RB, until Barkley. Eli has had two careers here. One awesome, one not so much. Eli has never missed a game due to injury since being starter. That is insane, he took brutal hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and he never complained. He only missed a game when the idiot benched him two years again and now that Pat "I inherited a 3 -13
team " Shurmur has cashed in his insurance policy to get some of the heat off him and Gettlemen.

The Eli lightning rod is gone now fellas.

He is the best of all time. The fans got jobbed too, but the waste of the second half of Eli's career was a football crime. Crazy thing is, I STILL am not sure he is actually a top reason this team is one of the two worst in the NFL. I think that is why so many feel this way.


+1
I can  
Les in TO : 9/17/2019 4:56 pm : link
Understand the narrative but donít agree with it. Would the second half of his career looked different if Nicks Cruz Wilson Phillips Thomas careers werenít cut short by injury? Would he have won two Super Bowls in the first place without some big performances by the defense?

The Giants tried but failed to completely rebuild the line after the core group retired though a lot of those guys are still starting on other teams.

.  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2019 4:58 pm : link
No one thinks it's a giant conspiracy theory, but you're nuts if you think management handled the latter years of his career well or put him in an even remotely good situation to succeed in.

Immediately following the 2011-12 Championship run, the line began to deteriorate (and if Reese had been paying attention, he would have already been addressing it by this time)

By 2013, the offensive line was in shambles. Eli was getting his ass kicked. His stable of RB's was awful at this point. Bradshaw had moved on to IND, Jacobs had 'retired' - this was the year he came back wearing #45. Peyton Hillis and Michael Cox were getting carries for us that year. Brandon Myers was our useless, shitty TE. We paid Louis Murphy actual money...

If it wasn't the offensive line or complete lack of running game, it was the defense being historically awful... like they were in 2015.

But when the defense was better in 2016, we again had little to no running game to speak of.

On top of that, we wrongly promoted Ben McAdoo to HC, where he tried to change a 10+ year veteran's footwork and shoehorn him into an offense he wasn't suited for.

Our offense was - hit Beckham on a quick slant and hope he takes it to the house. We were routinely outschemed and stifled by C2's.

In 2017, our offense was as bad as I can remember. Zero pass protection, zero run blocking, zero run game.

Aptly enough, at the very end... the offensive line finally became passable again. And Eli spent that final game throwing to Bennie Fowler, Cody Core and Cody Latimer with what looks like the league's worst defense on the other side of the field.

I don't think people feel bad for Eli Manning the person. But I certainly feel bad for the competitor. The guy who was given shit situation after shit situation on the field and never said a word publicly about it and never made it into a major issue when he had every right to do so.

The Giants bungled a lot of Eli's career badly. I'm surprised anyone would really disagree.

It doesn't mean none of the downswing here has been on Eli. He's not played well at many of these points... but it looked to me like if the team had understood how to actually put the right team around him and the right elements in place; he'd still have been more than capable of winning football games

The more time that elapsed, the more expensive that became. And now, those lines intersected a long time ago and are now getting further and further apart.

Eli will at least be in the conversation for the HoF... as he should be. And he has 2 rings to hang his hat on. An incredibly successful career by most standards... but I'll always feel like it could have been more than it was and I think the Giants did a pretty crappy job on the back 9 of his career.
RE: 2011  
Rjanyg : 9/17/2019 4:59 pm : link
In comment 14584216 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
Eli was king of the QB and NFL world. Since then, a joke.

Team was unable to build a defense, still can't. These past two weeks we have seen some competent line play, outside of those two weeks it has been over half a decade since that happened.

No consistent, TE, no carry the mail RB, until Barkley. Eli has had two careers here. One awesome, one not so much. Eli has never missed a game due to injury since being starter. That is insane, he took brutal hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and he never complained. He only missed a game when the idiot benched him two years again and now that Pat "I inherited a 3 -13
team " Shurmur has cashed in his insurance policy to get some of the heat off him and Gettlemen.

The Eli lightning rod is gone now fellas.

He is the best of all time. The fans got jobbed too, but the waste of the second half of Eli's career was a football crime. Crazy thing is, I STILL am not sure he is actually a top reason this team is one of the two worst in the NFL. I think that is why so many feel this way.


100% agree. He just worked hard and did his job. Represented NYG with total class.
Just because they didn't screw him on purpose...  
Chris in Philly : 9/17/2019 5:00 pm : link
doesn't mean they didn't screw him. The team building around him was an embarrassment.
RE: RE: 2011  
flycatcher : 9/17/2019 5:00 pm : link
In comment 14584280 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
In comment 14584216 rocco8112 said:


Quote:


Eli was king of the QB and NFL world. Since then, a joke.

Team was unable to build a defense, still can't. These past two weeks we have seen some competent line play, outside of those two weeks it has been over half a decade since that happened.

No consistent, TE, no carry the mail RB, until Barkley. Eli has had two careers here. One awesome, one not so much. Eli has never missed a game due to injury since being starter. That is insane, he took brutal hit, after hit, after hit, after hit, after hit and he never complained. He only missed a game when the idiot benched him two years again and now that Pat "I inherited a 3 -13
team " Shurmur has cashed in his insurance policy to get some of the heat off him and Gettlemen.

The Eli lightning rod is gone now fellas.

He is the best of all time. The fans got jobbed too, but the waste of the second half of Eli's career was a football crime. Crazy thing is, I STILL am not sure he is actually a top reason this team is one of the two worst in the NFL. I think that is why so many feel this way.



Eli doesn't play defense. This is some of the most hapless defense I have ever seen.

Truly. It's astounding.
RE: Does Anyone Think Giants Mismanagement  
V.I.G. : 9/17/2019 5:01 pm : link
In comment 14584286 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
was intentional? Doesn't mean it didn't happen. Ereck Flowers, John Jerry, Marshall Newhouse, Geoff Schwartz, Weston Richburg, et. al. happened. Ben McAdoo happened.

No.
arc  
HomerJones45 : 9/17/2019 5:05 pm : link
great post.
The thing I see  
mittenedman : 9/17/2019 5:09 pm : link
a lot of people getting wrong (IMO) is that this has nothing to do with Eli.

That is the easy narrative and I'm sure it will be released for public consumption.

However, Eli is not playing winning football even now that he has a good Offensive Line. I think the team is getting Jones in there for development - yes.

But Daniel Jones gives them the best chance to win right now, and that's why they are doing this. It's not because the team sucks and Eli is fine. Eli is completely finished and we've seen that for years now, but most including me were holding out hope it was the OLine's fault. It isn't.
Eli was  
AndyMilligan : 9/17/2019 5:11 pm : link
a good, sometimes great, player. He was never the King QB, as someone said here.
No one is entitled to wise management  
twostepgiants : 9/17/2019 5:23 pm : link
This acts like most playets have great management when it is the exception and not the rule
No one is entitled to wise management  
twostepgiants : 9/17/2019 5:24 pm : link
This acts like most playets have great management when it is the exception and not the rule
Well said Arc...  
Johnny5 : 9/17/2019 6:16 pm : link
Well said.
Well stated Arc  
Moondawg : 9/17/2019 7:19 pm : link
.
CIP  
Simms : 9/17/2019 8:10 pm : link
Bravo.

Canyoubpoat the link tonight wall art you created several years ago. Need wall art for my basement.
CIP  
Simms : 9/17/2019 8:11 pm : link
Bravo.

Can you post the link tonight wall art you created several years ago. Need wall art for my basement.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/17/2019 8:19 pm : link
The Giants hired two consecutive head coaches who ran systems that did not maximize Eli's strengths.

They failed to build an OL for him for eight years. Eli could have had a far better decline if the team didn't run him into the ground.
Eli was really struggling  
Batenhorst : 9/17/2019 9:01 pm : link
Inside the 30 and on 3rd downs

Lets see if Jones has the same issues

Then we will see if it was Eli or just lack of team talent
Eli can wipe his tears  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 9/17/2019 9:07 pm : link
with dollar bills for the rest of his life and never run out of money.

I've been an Eli fan for years. I wish he had more rings, but I don't feel sorry for the man. He was well compensated, and he had his share of wtf moments over the years. He isn't a victim.
I wonder if itís generational or that just where we are nowadays  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 9:11 pm : link
Where people think that money is the only currency.
RE: ...  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 9:25 pm : link
In comment 14584785 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
The Giants hired two consecutive head coaches who ran systems that did not maximize Eli's strengths.

They failed to build an OL for him for eight years. Eli could have had a far better decline if the team didn't run him into the ground.


the odd thing about that to me is that eli seemed to excel under the coughlin/mcadoo hybrid system. that got thrown out the window in 2016 when tom was shown the door and mcadoo was given free reign.
RE: .  
exiled : 9/17/2019 9:25 pm : link
Quote:
No one thinks it's a giant conspiracy theory, but you're nuts if you think management handled the latter years of his career well or put him in an even remotely good situation to succeed in.

Immediately following the 2011-12 Championship run, the line began to deteriorate (and if Reese had been paying attention, he would have already been addressing it by this time)

By 2013, the offensive line was in shambles. Eli was getting his ass kicked. His stable of RB's was awful at this point. Bradshaw had moved on to IND, Jacobs had 'retired' - this was the year he came back wearing #45. Peyton Hillis and Michael Cox were getting carries for us that year. Brandon Myers was our useless, shitty TE. We paid Louis Murphy actual money...

If it wasn't the offensive line or complete lack of running game, it was the defense being historically awful... like they were in 2015.

But when the defense was better in 2016, we again had little to no running game to speak of.

On top of that, we wrongly promoted Ben McAdoo to HC, where he tried to change a 10+ year veteran's footwork and shoehorn him into an offense he wasn't suited for.

Our offense was - hit Beckham on a quick slant and hope he takes it to the house. We were routinely outschemed and stifled by C2's.

In 2017, our offense was as bad as I can remember. Zero pass protection, zero run blocking, zero run game.

Aptly enough, at the very end... the offensive line finally became passable again. And Eli spent that final game throwing to Bennie Fowler, Cody Core and Cody Latimer with what looks like the league's worst defense on the other side of the field.

I don't think people feel bad for Eli Manning the person. But I certainly feel bad for the competitor. The guy who was given shit situation after shit situation on the field and never said a word publicly about it and never made it into a major issue when he had every right to do so.

The Giants bungled a lot of Eli's career badly. I'm surprised anyone would really disagree.

It doesn't mean none of the downswing here has been on Eli. He's not played well at many of these points... but it looked to me like if the team had understood how to actually put the right team around him and the right elements in place; he'd still have been more than capable of winning football games

The more time that elapsed, the more expensive that became. And now, those lines intersected a long time ago and are now getting further and further apart.

Eli will at least be in the conversation for the HoF... as he should be. And he has 2 rings to hang his hat on. An incredibly successful career by most standards... but I'll always feel like it could have been more than it was and I think the Giants did a pretty crappy job on the back 9 of his career.


Excellent post. Worth the revisit.
The team failed him along the way  
jcn56 : 9/17/2019 9:44 pm : link
but they built up a good team around him with enough talent to hoist a championship twice.

That's not a bad deal for a 15 year run. See if Dan Marino wouldn't sign up for that.
RE: The team failed him along the way  
rocco8112 : 9/17/2019 10:14 pm : link
In comment 14584986 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but they built up a good team around him with enough talent to hoist a championship twice.

That's not a bad deal for a 15 year run. See if Dan Marino wouldn't sign up for that.


true
Great post Arc - I also don't think the Giants wronged Eli this year  
Eric on Li : 9/17/2019 10:19 pm : link
we can quibble about whether he deserved another game or two, and he was certainly unlucky to lose all of his receivers to injuries/suspensions, but he didn't play particularly great in either game and there were plays on the field he could have made. He knew the deal, they lost games, and he lost his job. Seeing how Kyler Murray is playing without much around him it's hard to not want to see what Jones can do.

Had they cut him in March I very much doubt he would have started 16 games anywhere else and while I don't think he'd have cared about the money he certainly wouldn't have gotten more elsewhere. They gave him the chance to captain another Giants team to the playoffs if he and the rest of the team was good enough - neither was. It happens. He may still yet get a chance to go elsewhere if he wants to or if Jones gets mono maybe he'll get another shot to play a few last games here before deciding whether it's time to ride off into the sunset. He was an excellent Giant and I'm sure the only regret on all sides is that they could have just done more to win games.
RE: .  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/17/2019 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14584314 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
No one thinks it's a giant conspiracy theory, but you're nuts if you think management handled the latter years of his career well or put him in an even remotely good situation to succeed in.

Immediately following the 2011-12 Championship run, the line began to deteriorate (and if Reese had been paying attention, he would have already been addressing it by this time)

By 2013, the offensive line was in shambles. Eli was getting his ass kicked. His stable of RB's was awful at this point. Bradshaw had moved on to IND, Jacobs had 'retired' - this was the year he came back wearing #45. Peyton Hillis and Michael Cox were getting carries for us that year. Brandon Myers was our useless, shitty TE. We paid Louis Murphy actual money...

If it wasn't the offensive line or complete lack of running game, it was the defense being historically awful... like they were in 2015.

But when the defense was better in 2016, we again had little to no running game to speak of.

On top of that, we wrongly promoted Ben McAdoo to HC, where he tried to change a 10+ year veteran's footwork and shoehorn him into an offense he wasn't suited for.

Our offense was - hit Beckham on a quick slant and hope he takes it to the house. We were routinely outschemed and stifled by C2's.

In 2017, our offense was as bad as I can remember. Zero pass protection, zero run blocking, zero run game.

Aptly enough, at the very end... the offensive line finally became passable again. And Eli spent that final game throwing to Bennie Fowler, Cody Core and Cody Latimer with what looks like the league's worst defense on the other side of the field.

I don't think people feel bad for Eli Manning the person. But I certainly feel bad for the competitor. The guy who was given shit situation after shit situation on the field and never said a word publicly about it and never made it into a major issue when he had every right to do so.

The Giants bungled a lot of Eli's career badly. I'm surprised anyone would really disagree.

It doesn't mean none of the downswing here has been on Eli. He's not played well at many of these points... but it looked to me like if the team had understood how to actually put the right team around him and the right elements in place; he'd still have been more than capable of winning football games

The more time that elapsed, the more expensive that became. And now, those lines intersected a long time ago and are now getting further and further apart.

Eli will at least be in the conversation for the HoF... as he should be. And he has 2 rings to hang his hat on. An incredibly successful career by most standards... but I'll always feel like it could have been more than it was and I think the Giants did a pretty crappy job on the back 9 of his career.


Arc's post is perfect - captures everything. I think his amazing 2011 performance actually did a disservice to him, because that led the organization down the path that as long as Eli is out there, we can cobble together a contender with string and duct tape.
Why do I get the sense  
justafan : 9/17/2019 10:22 pm : link
that fans will still be debating Eli 5 years from now. Perhaps even 10 years and longer. What a crazy ride.
Back to the Corner