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the Beckham trade

blue1986 : 9/17/2019 8:11 pm
After watching Beckham last night I thought how it would have been if we had him versus Dallas and Buffalo. After the night he had against the Jets I have doubts about the trade. The players we have gotten for him have done nothing to justify it so far but its a long season.
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HOTTAKES  
Deejboy : 9/17/2019 8:12 pm : link
Got to love them. lol.
Wow man..  
Chef : 9/17/2019 8:12 pm : link
you are gonna hear shit I am positive... posted a few times...
Im glad he is  
mpinmaine : 9/17/2019 8:19 pm : link
gone.
i think a thing people  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 8:20 pm : link
are missing is that beckham kinda wanted out of here, and very possibly was dogging it at the end of last year when they were eliminated when he kept himself out of games, possibly trying to force the issue. gettleman made the right call. beckham wanted no part of a rebuild. you can argue he botched the picks/compensation, with peppers, lawrence and ximes, but make no mistake, beckham wanted out. just not to the browns.
I can see why they traded him  
Vanzetti : 9/17/2019 8:21 pm : link
But it seems shortsighted if you are to turn over the keys to
Jones after two games. Odell would have been quite s weapon for the young man

Also, the fact that Peppers has been utter garbage thus far makes the trade seem like more of s knee jerk reaction than a
well thought out move
Nobody  
Gman11 : 9/17/2019 8:22 pm : link
was saying this after the first week's game when Beckham's stats were kind of pedestrian.
You are seeing unhappy players  
UConn4523 : 9/17/2019 8:23 pm : link
almost every week now forcing a trade. Beckham no longer wanted to be here. If we didnít trade him and he was on this 0-2 team, then what? Would he be more happy?
RE: i think a thing people  
Vanzetti : 9/17/2019 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14584793 japanhead said:
Quote:
are missing is that beckham kinda wanted out of here, and very possibly was dogging it at the end of last year when they were eliminated when he kept himself out of games, possibly trying to force the issue. gettleman made the right call. beckham wanted no part of a rebuild. you can argue he botched the picks/compensation, with peppers, lawrence and ximes, but make no mistake, beckham wanted out. just not to the browns.


Did you see the interview after the Jets game? Odell is still in shock. He never wanted to leave NY, especially if Eli is gone, which was his major beef
RE: Nobody  
Vanzetti : 9/17/2019 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14584800 Gman11 said:
Quote:
was saying this after the first week's game when Beckham's stats were kind of pedestrian.


He had 7 catches for almost 100 yards the first week
if you believe it the way gettleman tells it  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 8:24 pm : link
it was a knee-jerk reaction. browns GM called him up, they went back and forth over 10 hours before settling on peppers, the 17th and the late 3rd rounder. gettleman probably should've held out for the browns 2020 first rounder, but given the collins situation, he needed a safety and peppers was a former first rounder, so he pulled the trigger.

ballsy move, to be sure, but things between the giants and beckham were probably worse than anyone knew so it probably was a bit of desperation.
RE: RE: i think a thing people  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14584803 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 14584793 japanhead said:


Quote:


are missing is that beckham kinda wanted out of here, and very possibly was dogging it at the end of last year when they were eliminated when he kept himself out of games, possibly trying to force the issue. gettleman made the right call. beckham wanted no part of a rebuild. you can argue he botched the picks/compensation, with peppers, lawrence and ximes, but make no mistake, beckham wanted out. just not to the browns.



Did you see the interview after the Jets game? Odell is still in shock. He never wanted to leave NY, especially if Eli is gone, which was his major beef


i didn't watch the game, no. but i was sure beckham made it known he wanted to be traded to a team in california or florida. i read that somewhere, at any rate.
RE: if you believe it the way gettleman tells it  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 8:32 pm : link
In comment 14584812 japanhead said:
Quote:
it was a knee-jerk reaction. browns GM called him up, they went back and forth over 10 hours before settling on peppers, the 17th and the late 3rd rounder. gettleman probably should've held out for the browns 2020 first rounder, but given the collins situation, he needed a safety and peppers was a former first rounder, so he pulled the trigger.

ballsy move, to be sure, but things between the giants and beckham were probably worse than anyone knew so it probably was a bit of desperation.


Gotta love all the bullshit speculation here! Jesus.

It was a bad fucking trade, plain and simple.
RE: i think a thing people  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 8:35 pm : link
In comment 14584793 japanhead said:
Quote:
are missing is that beckham kinda wanted out of here, and very possibly was dogging it at the end of last year when they were eliminated when he kept himself out of games, possibly trying to force the issue. gettleman made the right call. beckham wanted no part of a rebuild. you can argue he botched the picks/compensation, with peppers, lawrence and ximes, but make no mistake, beckham wanted out. just not to the browns.


You know what I think? I think you should stop with the bullshit speculation when you clearly are just grasping at all kinds of straws.

RE: RE: Nobody  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14584807 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 14584800 Gman11 said:


Quote:


was saying this after the first week's game when Beckham's stats were kind of pedestrian.



He had 7 catches for almost 100 yards the first week


Shhh. Dont speak in facts. Thatís not warranted when it comes to Beckham and his moron haters here.
its a long season was my point!!  
blue1986 : 9/17/2019 8:39 pm : link
We still have 14 games to go but some of the coaches and front office people are sweating just a little if your going to bench Manning this early like its his fault when its your defense giving up over 25 points in 2 games. I am not impressed with our DEf coordinator right now.
Sure would have been nice to have an  
prdave73 : 9/17/2019 8:46 pm : link
Explosive WR & RB threat with Jones?? Imo DG & Org looking really stupid right now.
Rather get the #1 wr  
Payasdaddy : 9/17/2019 8:50 pm : link
When we are finishing up building a decent team
That could be at least 1 more draft and solid f/a signings
By the time we are competitive. Odell is nearing 30 and maybe beat up
Letís see if we have a couple decent signings with his cap money next yr
RE: its a long season was my point!!  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 8:54 pm : link
In comment 14584846 blue1986 said:
Quote:
We still have 14 games to go but some of the coaches and front office people are sweating just a little if your going to bench Manning this early like its his fault when its your defense giving up over 25 points in 2 games. I am not impressed with our DEf coordinator right now.


Bless your optimism.

Unfortunately, with a senile, jackass, stubborn GM who got completely got schooled on the Beckham trade, this team is going fucking nowhere. Even with Jones at QB.
This just in:  
Leg of Theismann : 9/17/2019 9:04 pm : link
"Once in a generation" -type players only come along every, oh say, once in a generation or so and you can rarely get that type of value back with just a 1st and a 3rd and some random safety. People can nitpick Beckham's game all they want but the fact is he put up the best numbers in history for any WR's first 3 years in the league. Records all over the place for fastest to x yards and y TDs.

Of course the trade wasn't even. When are people going to finally accept that? But the trade wasn't about value or skill, it was about "changing the culture"... it was due to a "locker room problem". Usually when you trade a top 5 player away you get a ton back in return (see: Khalil Mack trade). We didn't get that for Beckham, so it was unlikely that we were going to get the better end of the deal in terms of value. But again, the trade wasn't about value, the trade was about Mara and Gettleman thinking that "fixing the locker room" was going to automatically translate to wins. Which didn't make a ton of sense to me because across the board the whole locker room actually fucking liked the guy, the only people who didn't like him were the people writing his checks (and maybe Shurmur).
dude beckham had  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 9:16 pm : link
a good game against the fucking jets. calm down. he's gone, get over it. go root for the browns if you're that sad about the trade. the giants most pressing problems are on the defensive side anyway.
RE: dude beckham had  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 9:19 pm : link
In comment 14584933 japanhead said:
Quote:
a good game against the fucking jets. calm down. he's gone, get over it. go root for the browns if you're that sad about the trade. the giants most pressing problems are on the defensive side anyway.


Hey pal, whatever gets you to sleep at night.
and you're up all night  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 9:21 pm : link
being butthurt about the trade? k man.
Itís odd people seem shocked he had a great game  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 9:25 pm : link
We all know he has talent. It wasnít about the talent. Sometimes it just isnít. Iím sure the Steelers and Raiders felt that way; weís see what Lil Bill comes to think.
it was an awful trade  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 9:38 pm : link
anyone who says otherwise is in denial.

Giants would have beat the bills with OBJ.

We had one of the 2-3 best WRs in the league and the single best RB in the game to support our rookie QB as he grew. We fixed the line with the vernon trade. And then we gave away the WR.

Giants fans never got to see Cruz and Beckham at full strength on the field together.

Then we got robbed of Barkley and OBJ.

It's fucking horseshit and it's the same dumb shit Gettleman ended up doing in Carolina after his top flight year.
RE: and you're up all night  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14584946 japanhead said:
Quote:
being butthurt about the trade? k man.
Who's up all night being butthurt?

People saying this trade sucked are just calling a spade a spade. And OP withstanding, a lot of the people who think this trade was awful ROI for a generational talent said so moments after the trade.
That trade was garbage  
Justlurking : 9/17/2019 9:41 pm : link
Gettleman got played. Peppers is not ďanother first rounderĒ. He stinks.
Gee whiz  
Model4001 : 9/17/2019 9:41 pm : link
"Hey guys, after watching the game, it seems like Beckham is really good and could have helped us, you know?"

Wow great fucking take.
I defended the trade  
djm : 9/17/2019 9:44 pm : link
And still do to an extent but I always said it was unacceptable that the giants and Beckham allowed it to even get to the point where a trade was necessary. Once it got that bad the giants had to trade Beckham. I get that part of it, But fuck the giants for failing to find a way to make it work here. End of the day Beckham got tired of the losing. He acted like a diva but the juice was well worth the squeeze. If the team didnít suck and show no signs of improvement Beckham would be here. And weíd be fine dealing with his antics which were always will be overstated. Just win.
RE: it was an awful trade  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 9:44 pm : link
In comment 14584969 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
anyone who says otherwise is in denial.

Giants would have beat the bills with OBJ.

We had one of the 2-3 best WRs in the league and the single best RB in the game to support our rookie QB as he grew. We fixed the line with the vernon trade. And then we gave away the WR.

Giants fans never got to see Cruz and Beckham at full strength on the field together.

Then we got robbed of Barkley and OBJ.

It's fucking horseshit and it's the same dumb shit Gettleman ended up doing in Carolina after his top flight year.
you just created a Catch-22. If we beat the Bills we wouldnít be pairing our rookie with OBJ.
And last night certainly didnít help  
djm : 9/17/2019 9:45 pm : link
It sucked seeing Beckham look like 2015 Beckham again. Any giants fan unfazed by that isnít a die hard fan. You canít be.
RE: I defended the trade  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 9:46 pm : link
In comment 14584984 djm said:
Quote:
And still do to an extent but I always said it was unacceptable that the giants and Beckham allowed it to even get to the point where a trade was necessary. Once it got that bad the giants had to trade Beckham. I get that part of it, But fuck the giants for failing to find a way to make it work here. End of the day Beckham got tired of the losing. He acted like a diva but the juice was well worth the squeeze. If the team didnít suck and show no signs of improvement Beckham would be here. And weíd be fine dealing with his antics which were always will be overstated. Just win.

Beckham didnít act like a diva because we were losing he acted like one because he is one. And, unless weíre going undefeated, he was always going to quit when a situation got tough.
So you admit to being a reactive emotional child who cant  
Brown Recluse : 9/17/2019 9:49 pm : link
think past the present moment.

Good to know.
RE: RE: it was an awful trade  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 9:51 pm : link
In comment 14584985 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14584969 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


anyone who says otherwise is in denial.

Giants would have beat the bills with OBJ.

We had one of the 2-3 best WRs in the league and the single best RB in the game to support our rookie QB as he grew. We fixed the line with the vernon trade. And then we gave away the WR.

Giants fans never got to see Cruz and Beckham at full strength on the field together.

Then we got robbed of Barkley and OBJ.

It's fucking horseshit and it's the same dumb shit Gettleman ended up doing in Carolina after his top flight year.

you just created a Catch-22. If we beat the Bills we wouldnít be pairing our rookie with OBJ.
Eventually, yes, we would.

You seriously think I'm just talking about next week? Obviously we'd eventually be pairing him with OBJ. Come on Bill, you're smarter than this.
RE: RE: I defended the trade  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 9:53 pm : link
In comment 14584994 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14584984 djm said:


Quote:


And still do to an extent but I always said it was unacceptable that the giants and Beckham allowed it to even get to the point where a trade was necessary. Once it got that bad the giants had to trade Beckham. I get that part of it, But fuck the giants for failing to find a way to make it work here. End of the day Beckham got tired of the losing. He acted like a diva but the juice was well worth the squeeze. If the team didnít suck and show no signs of improvement Beckham would be here. And weíd be fine dealing with his antics which were always will be overstated. Just win.


Beckham didnít act like a diva because we were losing he acted like one because he is one. And, unless weíre going undefeated, he was always going to quit when a situation got tough.
yes, I'm sure Beckham would be pissed off on a 12-4 team.

Stop the hyperbole. You are so obviously going through mental gymnastics to fit a narrative that it's ridiculous.

The truth is that he was probably sick of catching passes from an old QB who has been cooked since 2016 (Eli was still a very solid QB in '15).
RE: And last night certainly didnít help  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2019 9:57 pm : link
In comment 14584991 djm said:
Quote:
It sucked seeing Beckham look like 2015 Beckham again. Any giants fan unfazed by that isnít a die hard fan. You canít be.


I guess I'm not a die hard fan.

People are going wild over one game against the Jets when the Jets were unable to put any sort of pressure on Cleveland to do anything because their offense couldn't even get into positive yardage until nearly halftime.

On top of that, they're missing Avery Williamson, CJ Moseley and Quennen Williams. Pretty sure Trumaine Johnson didn't play, either.

The Browns have to play teams that are in better shape than that. We'll see where they end up.

If anyone misses watching Beckham here with a horrendous defense and a lot of losing, just go re-watch the 2015 season. That's what we'd be looking at... except it would be an even further diminished version of Eli or a rookie Daniel Jones who will have growing pains and struggle... and there'd be more sulking and more frustration and more BS. What's the point?
RE: RE: And last night certainly didnít help  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 9:58 pm : link
In comment 14585012 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14584991 djm said:


Quote:


It sucked seeing Beckham look like 2015 Beckham again. Any giants fan unfazed by that isnít a die hard fan. You canít be.



I guess I'm not a die hard fan.

People are going wild over one game against the Jets when the Jets were unable to put any sort of pressure on Cleveland to do anything because their offense couldn't even get into positive yardage until nearly halftime.

On top of that, they're missing Avery Williamson, CJ Moseley and Quennen Williams. Pretty sure Trumaine Johnson didn't play, either.

The Browns have to play teams that are in better shape than that. We'll see where they end up.

If anyone misses watching Beckham here with a horrendous defense and a lot of losing, just go re-watch the 2015 season. That's what we'd be looking at... except it would be an even further diminished version of Eli or a rookie Daniel Jones who will have growing pains and struggle... and there'd be more sulking and more frustration and more BS. What's the point?
......... the defense is still fucking horrendous.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2019 10:00 pm : link
Yeah, that's kind of the point.

We were still going nowhere with Odell.
RE: RE: RE: I defended the trade  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:00 pm : link
In comment 14585005 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14584994 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 14584984 djm said:


Quote:


And still do to an extent but I always said it was unacceptable that the giants and Beckham allowed it to even get to the point where a trade was necessary. Once it got that bad the giants had to trade Beckham. I get that part of it, But fuck the giants for failing to find a way to make it work here. End of the day Beckham got tired of the losing. He acted like a diva but the juice was well worth the squeeze. If the team didnít suck and show no signs of improvement Beckham would be here. And weíd be fine dealing with his antics which were always will be overstated. Just win.


Beckham didnít act like a diva because we were losing he acted like one because he is one. And, unless weíre going undefeated, he was always going to quit when a situation got tough.

yes, I'm sure Beckham would be pissed off on a 12-4 team.

Stop the hyperbole. You are so obviously going through mental gymnastics to fit a narrative that it's ridiculous.

The truth is that he was probably sick of catching passes from an old QB who has been cooked since 2016 (Eli was still a very solid QB in '15).

The truth is that he is a man-child whose act wore thin. His act, and the response to his act were totally independent of the teamís success. Great player, terrible person.
I'm glad he's gone  
arniefez : 9/17/2019 10:01 pm : link
too. But his exit like everything else the Mara brothers and their GM's have done the past 5 years was horribly mismanaged and they got a terrible return for the asset.
Couple things  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:02 pm : link
1) arcarsenal -- yes, we agree the defense sucks. and admittedly, lawrence and (hopefully) baker need to developer (peppers, IMO, is what he is by year 3). did the OBJ trade make this team better right now?

2) bill - I want to watch the team win. this team is objectively worse without beckham. did you root for LT? he was far worse of a person tha OBJ. did you root for david diehl? never saw OBJ get a DUI. did you even know what kind of person the disgusting rapist dave megget was when you rooted for him? did it stop you from rooting for him?

also, you totally glossed over the fact that you made a ridiculous post with your "catch 22" comment to me --- as if I was talking about specifically week 3 this year, and not DJ's first 3-4 years in the league.
RE: .  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:07 pm : link
In comment 14585020 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Yeah, that's kind of the point.

We were still going nowhere with Odell.
just to reiterate how little i understand this comment...


....so we traded him for defensive help, but the defense is still ass. thing is that the offense has now put out one of the worst WR corps in NFL history this last sunday. so our offense is way worse later, and our defense is no better. how is this supporting your point again?

people need to come to terms that this was an asinine, ridiculously lopsided trade. get used to it -- you'll be hearing this forever as giants fans. rip the band-aid off now and come to terms with it. i'm here venting with my fellow fans, but when I talk to fans of other NFL teams, all I can do at this point is just admit how stupid it was instead of ranting and raving like I am here.

generational talent for a DT to replace snacks, who we traded for a 4th round pick, an average (at best) safety, and a CB who's quality is TBD, but is looking atrocious at the moment. Hell, sy was the one who said that baker played one of the worst games he's ever seen from the CB position this last sunday. Is some of it bettcher being a shitty coach? yes. could baker have a webster-like "lightbulb" moment? I definitely hope so; however, while it's still too early to tell how baker shakes out, the fact of the matter is that he's not exactly on the best trajectory now, and it's extremely unlikely that baker + lawrence + peppers are even remotely as valuable as OBJ himself.

spare me the cap argument, otherwise eli should have been cut before week 1
RE: Couple things  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:11 pm : link
In comment 14585028 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
1) arcarsenal -- yes, we agree the defense sucks. and admittedly, lawrence and (hopefully) baker need to developer (peppers, IMO, is what he is by year 3). did the OBJ trade make this team better right now?

2) bill - I want to watch the team win. this team is objectively worse without beckham. did you root for LT? he was far worse of a person tha OBJ. did you root for david diehl? never saw OBJ get a DUI. did you even know what kind of person the disgusting rapist dave megget was when you rooted for him? did it stop you from rooting for him?

also, you totally glossed over the fact that you made a ridiculous post with your "catch 22" comment to me --- as if I was talking about specifically week 3 this year, and not DJ's first 3-4 years in the league.

Where did you say 3-4 years? Apologies for missing that.
*should read  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:11 pm : link
baker and xines and peppers. oof, that makes it even worse
RE: RE: Couple things  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:12 pm : link
In comment 14585056 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14585028 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


1) arcarsenal -- yes, we agree the defense sucks. and admittedly, lawrence and (hopefully) baker need to developer (peppers, IMO, is what he is by year 3). did the OBJ trade make this team better right now?

2) bill - I want to watch the team win. this team is objectively worse without beckham. did you root for LT? he was far worse of a person tha OBJ. did you root for david diehl? never saw OBJ get a DUI. did you even know what kind of person the disgusting rapist dave megget was when you rooted for him? did it stop you from rooting for him?

also, you totally glossed over the fact that you made a ridiculous post with your "catch 22" comment to me --- as if I was talking about specifically week 3 this year, and not DJ's first 3-4 years in the league.


Where did you say 3-4 years? Apologies for missing that.
maybe you misunderstood the scope of my post. I thought it was implied, particularly as I had mentioned the fact about cruz +OBJ never being healthy together.

I am not looking short term, I am looking long term. If beckham was 3 years older, I'd have far less of a problem with the trade.
If OBJ was on the team I would root for him  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:12 pm : link
But heís not and I donít wish for him back and I donít regret that heís gone (any more).
RE: If OBJ was on the team I would root for him  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:14 pm : link
In comment 14585060 Bill L said:
Quote:
But heís not and I donít wish for him back and I donít regret that heís gone (any more).
I'm definitely not rooting for him, but I don't think that being clear eyed about the value received for him and the damage done to the team (and DJ's effectiveness) is akin to being a crybaby of any sorts
RE: RE: If OBJ was on the team I would root for him  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14585068 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14585060 Bill L said:


Quote:


But heís not and I donít wish for him back and I donít regret that heís gone (any more).

I'm definitely not rooting for him, but I don't think that being clear eyed about the value received for him and the damage done to the team (and DJ's effectiveness) is akin to being a crybaby of any sorts

I didnít say anyone was a crybaby. I said that nobody questioned his talent but there were reasons that superseded his talent that caused him to be traded. I actually think that in the long run itís better for DJones *not* to have him around. Otherwise heíd never be allowed to know what he had in Engram, Barkley or any other receiver.
RE: RE: RE: If OBJ was on the team I would root for him  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:23 pm : link
In comment 14585085 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14585068 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


In comment 14585060 Bill L said:


Quote:


But heís not and I donít wish for him back and I donít regret that heís gone (any more).

I'm definitely not rooting for him, but I don't think that being clear eyed about the value received for him and the damage done to the team (and DJ's effectiveness) is akin to being a crybaby of any sorts


I didnít say anyone was a crybaby. I said that nobody questioned his talent but there were reasons that superseded his talent that caused him to be traded. I actually think that in the long run itís better for DJones *not* to have him around. Otherwise heíd never be allowed to know what he had in Engram, Barkley or any other receiver.
agree to disagree, I guess.

this team, and DJ's career, is not better without the single greatest WR in the 95 year history of the team.
who, btw  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:23 pm : link
is TWENTY SIX right now
If Beckham is back to 95%...  
bw in dc : 9/17/2019 10:24 pm : link
of his 2015 form, which seems likely, this trade is going to sting. And I supported the move because of the distraction factor and, equally important to me, I thought Beckham wasn't going to be THE Beckham anymore.

But I said earlier today Jints Central bears responsibility in the divorce because it's clear we didn't have the resources to manage OBJ's personality. We needed a Strahan type. An Antonio Pierce type. Instead we have quiet Eli. A hundred year old GM. And a HC over his head right now.

So for this trade to feel less depressing, we need Lawrence to be great and Peppers needs to wake up. Otherwise, this may go down as one of the worst trades.

OBJ's skills are sorely missed right now because he stretched the defense. He took the top off it. And man could we use that right now...

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