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the Beckham trade

blue1986 : 9/17/2019 8:11 pm
After watching Beckham last night I thought how it would have been if we had him versus Dallas and Buffalo. After the night he had against the Jets I have doubts about the trade. The players we have gotten for him have done nothing to justify it so far but its a long season.
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Well, in calendar years at least.  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:25 pm : link
.
sorry for the multi post  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:25 pm : link
but that logic truly doesn't make sense.

did the steelers not know what they had in leveon bell because antonio brown was tearing it up, or vice versa?

you're making it sound like having a high number of skill position players who are the best at their position is a negative.

it really isn't
RE: Well, in calendar years at least.  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14585097 Bill L said:
Quote:
.
immaturity and maturity don't take away your speed, your ability to cut, or your hands
RE: If Beckham is back to 95%...  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14585096 bw in dc said:
Quote:
of his 2015 form, which seems likely, this trade is going to sting. And I supported the move because of the distraction factor and, equally important to me, I thought Beckham wasn't going to be THE Beckham anymore.

But I said earlier today Jints Central bears responsibility in the divorce because it's clear we didn't have the resources to manage OBJ's personality. We needed a Strahan type. An Antonio Pierce type. Instead we have quiet Eli. A hundred year old GM. And a HC over his head right now.

So for this trade to feel less depressing, we need Lawrence to be great and Peppers needs to wake up. Otherwise, this may go down as one of the worst trades.

OBJ's skills are sorely missed right now because he stretched the defense. He took the top off it. And man could we use that right now...

Thatís partly my point. jones is going to be another Eli type but now with less age and experience. He would get chewed up and spit out. And thatís usually not a positive for growth and development
Sometimes I hate this forum  
Daniel in Kentucky : 9/17/2019 10:27 pm : link
Beckhamís Dad posted a video of Mara freaking out in the owners box throwing his chair - 2018
I think that was the last hammer blow in the last nail in the coffin known as Beckham as Giant

Can you imagine posting a video of your bossís boss freaking out to the world.

Youíre fired
Or in this case traded

Itís not that difficult to understand

You donít crap in the owner of the teamís bed
Letting go of talent because they are a pain-in-the-ass is fine  
Jimmy Googs : 9/17/2019 10:32 pm : link
as long as you are confident in your ability to replace that talent to a reasonable degree, regardless if at same position or elsewhere.

I would be shocked if anybody on this site or Giant headquarters is confident right now that is the case...
Bill  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:33 pm : link
There's a ton of conjecture in that post, and I still can't believe that you think throwing to Golden Tate and Sterling Shepard instead of having OBJ for another 4-5 years in his prime is somehow preferable.

It's almost like you're making a proxy to Shockey. Shockey and OBJ are not equivalents. OBJ hated losing. Shockey hated not getting the ball.

Daniel - stop applying office rules to the NFL. Additionally, I'm on this forum every day and 1) never heard about this instagram post or whatever, 2) never heard anyone give a shit, 3) don't even think that's some sort of viable argument considering that there are 77k people in the stadium who could have taken that video of someone doing that in public.

If you think that's a good reason to trade the best WR in century long history of the team (accentuate that for a minute), then I don't know what to tell you
Buckle Up, OP  
bradshaw44 : 9/17/2019 10:36 pm : link
Heís going to have plenty more games like it. But that doesnít mean it was the wrong move to trade him.

Not sure why so many people are acting this way. Itís not like we traded him because he was turning 35 this year. It was his attitude. Kid can play football.

That being said, nothing he does can make me not like the trade. UNLESS he plays at this level for 20 years. That would suck. It also wonít happen with someone with squishy belly disorder.
RE: and you're up all night  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 10:37 pm : link
In comment 14584946 japanhead said:
Quote:
being butthurt about the trade? k man.


And youíre up all night here trying convince Ďbutthurtí fans that youíre right.

The irony is, Iím completely sure, certainly lost on you.


however, to play devil's advocate for a moment  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:37 pm : link
OBJ is a small guy who gets hurt a lot, and will likely get hurt again this year (and for the rest of his career).

I heard a stat that he's actually missed more games than Sammy Watkins since they were both drafted. That was extremely surprising.
im on the west  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 10:39 pm : link
coast so no im not up all night. anyway, i understand beckham had to go and i'm fine with it.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 9/17/2019 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14585038 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
In comment 14585020 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Yeah, that's kind of the point.

We were still going nowhere with Odell.

just to reiterate how little i understand this comment...


....so we traded him for defensive help, but the defense is still ass. thing is that the offense has now put out one of the worst WR corps in NFL history this last sunday. so our offense is way worse later, and our defense is no better. how is this supporting your point again?

people need to come to terms that this was an asinine, ridiculously lopsided trade. get used to it -- you'll be hearing this forever as giants fans. rip the band-aid off now and come to terms with it. i'm here venting with my fellow fans, but when I talk to fans of other NFL teams, all I can do at this point is just admit how stupid it was instead of ranting and raving like I am here.

generational talent for a DT to replace snacks, who we traded for a 4th round pick, an average (at best) safety, and a CB who's quality is TBD, but is looking atrocious at the moment. Hell, sy was the one who said that baker played one of the worst games he's ever seen from the CB position this last sunday. Is some of it bettcher being a shitty coach? yes. could baker have a webster-like "lightbulb" moment? I definitely hope so; however, while it's still too early to tell how baker shakes out, the fact of the matter is that he's not exactly on the best trajectory now, and it's extremely unlikely that baker + lawrence + peppers are even remotely as valuable as OBJ himself.

spare me the cap argument, otherwise eli should have been cut before week 1


I guess I missed the part where a defensive lineman is supposed to be fully developed, finished product 2 games into his career.

DeAndre Baker is obviously finished after 2 games, too.

Peppers has sucked so far. He's got to be a lot better. If he's not, we have another big hole to fill.

Obviously these guys are supposed to help the defense improve over the long-term. They haven't so far, so - I guess we've seen all we need to see? Is that the conclusion here?

And I guess it's already safe to project Beckham's entire season with a 2 game sample. Nevermind that he's missed an entire seasons' worth of games over the course of the past 2 years and had a big game against a Jets defense missing half its players.

Okey doke.
The Beckham trade is very simple - either Lawrence makes Pro bowls  
Eric on Li : 9/17/2019 10:41 pm : link
Or he doesnít. Peppers or Ximines could be nice players too but it comes down to the big guy. If he gives us 10 years of linval joseph level play itís a good deal. If he doesnít get a second contract here they didnít do a good job. I understand trading Beckham even just due to his injury risks, even last night he limped off after several plays, but you have to get value.
Sure.  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 10:42 pm : link
Again, whatever gets you to sleep at night pal.
Not sure why some of you don't get it...  
EricJ : 9/17/2019 10:44 pm : link
These are the facts..
1. He no longer wanted to play here
2. Nobody else offered anything better than what the Browns offered. Otherwise, we would have taken it.
3. It was Odell himself who negatively impacted his trade value.

I said this back when it happened. If this was such a steal for the Browns, then why wasn't there another team who offered more?
RE: Sure.  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14585144 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
Again, whatever gets you to sleep at night pal.


is your beckham jr browns jersey on the way, sweetie? you seem like the kinda guy who'd want his name on your back.
Another great argument from a guy who really had none  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 10:47 pm : link
in the first place.

Sad.
RE: Sure.  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:47 pm : link
In comment 14585144 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
Again, whatever gets you to sleep at night pal.

As a consequence of the nature of the globe and the position of the sun, people long ago established time zones which differed in accordance with their geographical location. The US west coast is three hours behind the east coast. So, although it was roughly 10:30 PM in the east when he posted, in his location it was actually roughly 7:30 PM. So, barely night, more evening really, and totally conceivable that he wasnít sleeping and needing help to get through the..um, evening.
RE: Another great argument from a guy who really had none  
japanhead : 9/17/2019 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14585153 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
in the first place.

Sad.


what was your argument again? you were drooling over beckham while watching the jets game, feel sad and miss him, and gettleman is stupid? that about right?
japanhead  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:49 pm : link
there is no projection with OBJ other than whether he can stay healthy (btw, my post right before yours had that caveat). We know what he is.

Peppers is pretty close also, being that this is his third year and he's been a disappointment. 25th overall "athletic freak" who didn't have a position in college and is lost out there.

You are vastly, vastly underrating Beckham.

It would take Lawrence, Baker, Peppers, and Xman all to turn into useful players for this trade to be justified.

Out of those four, we need 2 out of 4 to turn into Keith Hamilton, Webster, Rolle, or Kiwanuka to make it even in the same stratosphere.

Remember, this was the best WR in the history of the team, bar none, who was still in his prime.
He was a major distraction.  
Since1965 : 9/17/2019 10:50 pm : link
On top of that, he cost his team penalties because of his antics on the field. Good riddance! He became uncoachable with his behavior. Selfish Diva! How soon they forget.
Sorry  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:50 pm : link
that was to arc, not japanhead
RE: RE: Sure.  
Hsilwek92 : 9/17/2019 10:51 pm : link
In comment 14585154 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14585144 Hsilwek92 said:


Quote:


Again, whatever gets you to sleep at night pal.


As a consequence of the nature of the globe and the position of the sun, people long ago established time zones which differed in accordance with their geographical location. The US west coast is three hours behind the east coast. So, although it was roughly 10:30 PM in the east when he posted, in his location it was actually roughly 7:30 PM. So, barely night, more evening really, and totally conceivable that he wasnít sleeping and needing help to get through the..um, evening.


And as a consequence of sticking your nose in where it doesnít belong, I also live on the west coast and, it was he, not I who mentioned being, ďUp all night.Ē

But, please, continue.
Then why are you asking him to sleep at 7:30?  
Bill L : 9/17/2019 10:55 pm : link
.
RE: He was a major distraction.  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14585168 Since1965 said:
Quote:
On top of that, he cost his team penalties because of his antics on the field. Good riddance! He became uncoachable with his behavior. Selfish Diva! How soon they forget.


Who gives a shit if he's a diva? The best WRs almost always are. He made the team better. And whatever penalties he had were far exceeded by his on field value, particularly to a young QB, and particularly when paired with the best RB in the league.

I swear, it's like some people root for the team and view the players as their own employees or something.

His teammates loved him. I'd rather not defer to Shurmur and Gettleman (who will likely both be gone within 2 years) over OBJ.
RE: Buckle Up, OP  
Tesla : 9/17/2019 11:00 pm : link
In comment 14585127 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
Heís going to have plenty more games like it. But that doesnít mean it was the wrong move to trade him.


Actually.......that's exactly what it means. He could have been having those types of games for us, and helping us win games we would otherwise have lost in the process like he did in 2017.

The goal is not to avoid distractions, have a good culture, etc. etc....the goal is too win games, right?
RE: The Beckham trade is very simple - either Lawrence makes Pro bowls  
bw in dc : 9/17/2019 11:05 pm : link
In comment 14585137 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Or he doesnít. Peppers or Ximines could be nice players too but it comes down to the big guy. If he gives us 10 years of linval joseph level play itís a good deal. If he doesnít get a second contract here they didnít do a good job. I understand trading Beckham even just due to his injury risks, even last night he limped off after several plays, but you have to get value.


Lawrence has to be a major difference maker. If not, the deal is a huge flat-line.
RE: japanhead  
bradshaw44 : 9/17/2019 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14585163 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
there is no projection with OBJ other than whether he can stay healthy (btw, my post right before yours had that caveat). We know what he is.

Peppers is pretty close also, being that this is his third year and he's been a disappointment. 25th overall "athletic freak" who didn't have a position in college and is lost out there.

You are vastly, vastly underrating Beckham.

It would take Lawrence, Baker, Peppers, and Xman all to turn into useful players for this trade to be justified.

Out of those four, we need 2 out of 4 to turn into Keith Hamilton, Webster, Rolle, or Kiwanuka to make it even in the same stratosphere.

Remember, this was the best WR in the history of the team, bar none, who was still in his prime.


What good would it be having him here chirping in a rookie QBs ear all the time and then complaining to the media how the rookie needs to throw it to him more. Yes, my comment is hyperbole, but based on the way he was behaving before his departure, it is very possible thatís how things could have played out. Of course, they could have had an amazing connection and gone on to be Montana and Rice. But the fact is, his first few years here he was more TO then Rice. And TO in a losing environment is a cancer. Cutting that out, rather then waiting it out is the prudent course for a team that is rebuilding and needed multiple draft picks and positions filled. Speaking in definites about this trade two games into to its infancy is silly.

Beckham is more talented then the players we got, no doubt. But it was necessary, just like sitting Eli down now for Jones. It bugs some people but it needed to be done in both instances.
And furthermore  
bradshaw44 : 9/17/2019 11:12 pm : link
TO was and amazing receiver with an attitude problem and look at how he was dropped by teams due to behavior. The trade was OBJs doing, not DG.
Beckham was an issue because he isn't the guy you want on a losing  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/17/2019 11:17 pm : link
rebuilding roster. Great player no doubt, but he was probably sick of all the losing. Imagine what he'd be like here this year? Browns probably are going to be good, but if they start to lose a whole bunch, watch out.
RE: RE: japanhead  
bw in dc : 9/17/2019 11:17 pm : link
In comment 14585193 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:

Beckham is more talented then the players we got, no doubt. But it was necessary, just like sitting Eli down now for Jones. It bugs some people but it needed to be done in both instances.


We needed to do a better job managing OBJ's personality.

I'm not absolving OBJ's antics, but, to quote Jimmy Johnson - be consistent, and treat everyone differently. And he coached arguably THE biggest pain in the ass in NFL history: Charles Haley.

So let's just be honest. The support system at Jints Central just wasn't malleable enough to guide OBJ.
RE: Beckham was an issue because he isn't the guy you want on a losing  
Vanzetti : 9/17/2019 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14585205 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
rebuilding roster. Great player no doubt, but he was probably sick of all the losing. Imagine what he'd be like here this year? Browns probably are going to be good, but if they start to lose a whole bunch, watch out.


Maybe. I think actually would have embraced Jones. It was evident in the comments that he madeówhich got him traded óthat he thought Eli was done.

So now two games later Giants agree with him

Itís never good when a guy gets traded for speaking the truth
RE: RE: Beckham was an issue because he isn't the guy you want on a losing  
Sonic Youth : 9/17/2019 11:32 pm : link
In comment 14585231 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 14585205 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


rebuilding roster. Great player no doubt, but he was probably sick of all the losing. Imagine what he'd be like here this year? Browns probably are going to be good, but if they start to lose a whole bunch, watch out.



Maybe. I think actually would have embraced Jones. It was evident in the comments that he madeówhich got him traded óthat he thought Eli was done.

So now two games later Giants agree with him

Itís never good when a guy gets traded for speaking the truth


I agree with this. I think his problem was far more with the fact he thought Eli was done as opposed to anything about the Giants per se specifically as a franchise, or the owners, etc (though Gettleman has a tendency to make players hate him, so that could have exacerbated things).

We are all Giants fans, I love Eli (obviously), but we have an attachment to Eli. He doesn't, and he's thinking this in terms of career/fame.
The giants picked Eli over obj  
Junior22 : 9/17/2019 11:41 pm : link
And then Eli is now done after 2 games.

OBJ knew Eli was no longer a good qb and he was right. Now we complain that we have no weapons. Hahahah
RE: The giants picked Eli over obj  
bw in dc : 9/17/2019 11:52 pm : link
In comment 14585249 Junior22 said:
Quote:
And then Eli is now done after 2 games.

OBJ knew Eli was no longer a good qb and he was right. Now we complain that we have no weapons. Hahahah


Thatís actually a very good point. Forgot about that.
I still miss Odell  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/18/2019 12:05 am : link
what might have been
hasn't it been reported they didn't want OBJ around a rookie QB?  
Eric on Li : 9/18/2019 12:05 am : link
I buy that personally and think there's validity in clearing things out to let Barkley become the team persona as much as much as Daniel Jones needs a chance to do the same.

Again, purely on injury risk I understand trading Beckham. Not all his fault, but his first 2 years he was a very different player than the last several (mostly due to injuries). But you don't give up something for nothing. Lawrence in particular has to become something in his own right (and on a positive note he has already flashed some).
RE: RE: japanhead  
bebopson : 9/18/2019 2:31 am : link
In comment 14585193 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:


What good would it be having him here chirping in a rookie QBs ear all the time and then complaining to the media how the rookie needs to throw it to him more. Yes, my comment is hyperbole, but based on the way he was behaving before his departure, it is very possible thatís how things could have played out.


I would argue that OBJ was the canary in the coal mine on Eli's career. Eli was done a few years ago and if they had realized it and started a legitimate transition earlier, OBJ wouldn't have been complaining so much. I think he would have gotten along with DJ just fine BTW.
RE: This just in:  
D_Giants : 9/22/2019 12:51 am : link
In comment 14584905 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
"Once in a generation" -type players only come along every, oh say, once in a generation or so and you can rarely get that type of value back with just a 1st and a 3rd and some random safety. People can nitpick Beckham's game all they want but the fact is he put up the best numbers in history for any WR's first 3 years in the league. Records all over the place for fastest to x yards and y TDs.

Of course the trade wasn't even. When are people going to finally accept that? But the trade wasn't about value or skill, it was about "changing the culture"... it was due to a "locker room problem". Usually when you trade a top 5 player away you get a ton back in return (see: Khalil Mack trade). We didn't get that for Beckham, so it was unlikely that we were going to get the better end of the deal in terms of value. But again, the trade wasn't about value, the trade was about Mara and Gettleman thinking that "fixing the locker room" was going to automatically translate to wins. Which didn't make a ton of sense to me because across the board the whole locker room actually fucking liked the guy, the only people who didn't like him were the people writing his checks (and maybe Shurmur).


Giants now have a great culture, no defense, only one great offensive player, not two, and another sterling, winless record. If ďrebuildingĒ means giving away good and great players, then DG is truly rebuilding the franchise.
RE: RE: RE: japanhead  
ron mexico : 9/22/2019 7:04 am : link
In comment 14585319 bebopson said:
Quote:
In comment 14585193 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:




What good would it be having him here chirping in a rookie QBs ear all the time and then complaining to the media how the rookie needs to throw it to him more. Yes, my comment is hyperbole, but based on the way he was behaving before his departure, it is very possible thatís how things could have played out.



I would argue that OBJ was the canary in the coal mine on Eli's career. Eli was done a few years ago and if they had realized it and started a legitimate transition earlier, OBJ wouldn't have been complaining so much. I think he would have gotten along with DJ just fine BTW.


I agree with this. Any posts saying DJ would get chewed up by OBJ is really insulting to DJ. Saquon and Shep have DJs back and OBJ would have too.
This talking point  
jestersdead : 9/22/2019 7:32 am : link
In my opinion is b/c of three reasons
1) Beckham is no longer in the NYC media spotlight and therefore is not getting the same daily attention
2) he has toned it down and seems to be maturing, which did not happen here.
3) the giants continue to lose

This trade could be similar to the Chris Carter trade out of Philly to Minnesota.
RE: This talking point  
ron mexico : 9/22/2019 8:03 am : link
In comment 14591048 jestersdead said:
Quote:
In my opinion is b/c of three reasons
1) Beckham is no longer in the NYC media spotlight and therefore is not getting the same daily attention
2) he has toned it down and seems to be maturing, which did not happen here.
3) the giants continue to lose

This trade could be similar to the Chris Carter trade out of Philly to Minnesota.


Did you see the jets game? He is the exact same guy with the visor issue and the cramping.

If anything he is even more outspoken now. Win and he will be fine. Lose and watch out.
Terrible  
Mike in Boston : 9/22/2019 8:05 am : link
Whatever happens with Lawrence and Baker, the draft picks are not much compensation for a player with Beckham's talent level. What fraction of mid-first round picks or third round picks develop into hall of fame caliber players like Beckham? Those draft picks are worth, perhaps, 1/10 of a Beckham. If Lawrence and/or Baker develop into Hall of Fame players, that will be testament that the drafting was both good and lucky. Not that the trade was at fair value.

And Peppers seems to be what he was in Cleveland; a JAG safety. Maybe another 10% of Beckham's value


The trade was in a class with the Sox selling Babe Ruth's contract.

Enough with this...  
Burtman : 9/22/2019 8:31 am : link
once in a generation crap about Beckham. He's an excellent receiver and may make the hall of fame but he's not even the best receiver playing in the league right now.
Mike  
UConn4523 : 9/22/2019 8:34 am : link
you seem to be mistaking Beckhamís talent with his value when he was traded. They arenít close to being the same thing. All the talent in the world doesnít matter if the player refuses to play, becomes a cancer, dogs it on the field, trashes the organization publicly, etc.

We moved on and got picks and a player back for him. If the picks donít work out, blame the drafting not the trade.
Iíll take Lawrence long term  
LauderdaleMatty : 9/22/2019 8:37 am : link
Beckham May never be Antonio Brown bad but heís a cancer. And unless he can play DB heís not whatía mainly missing w this ream.

Issue 1 Shurmur and Betcher
Issue 2 Defense pass rush and our keystone cop DBs

The Fantasy Football mentality that you need HOF level WRs to win a championship has been actually shown Over and over and over to be a fallacy.
the Giants paid him 90 million dollars and it wasn't enough.  
Britt in VA : 9/22/2019 8:40 am : link
What else could they have done for him to be happy? The answer is nothing, because he'll never be happy.
He publicly spit in his employers face four weeks after getting  
Britt in VA : 9/22/2019 8:42 am : link
a record breaking contract.

He didn't go for the onsides kick.

He benched himself the final four games.

He is unreliable.

Would you put up with that as an employer signing the check?
Beckham hot himself shipped out of town.  
Britt in VA : 9/22/2019 8:43 am : link
Nobody else.
RE: the Giants paid him 90 million dollars and it wasn't enough.  
ron mexico : 9/22/2019 8:43 am : link
In comment 14591085 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
What else could they have done for him to be happy? The answer is nothing, because he'll never be happy.


Simple, win some games.
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