the Beckham trade

In comment 14591091 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14591085 Britt in VA said: Quote: What else could they have done for him to be happy? The answer is nothing, because he'll never be happy. Simple, win some games.

He had a chance to do that in Green Bay in the playoffs. He blew it. It will always be something with him. Always.

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In comment 14591093 Britt in VA said:

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keep using one game and one play as evidence and ignore the rest.

You forget that he both caught and threw a TD in that game.

In comment 14591097 Britt in VA said:

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Worked out ok for Dion Sanders.

and then with everything on the line and it coming down to one play, he quit.

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don’t really understand you stance on this. The guy quit on his team, trashed the organization, and basically forced a trade. I supported Beckham through all the sideline stuff but that crap isn’t something anyone should stand for.

And dion played 20 years ago. Got any relevant comps?

In comment 14591103 UConn4523 said:

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don’t really understand you stance on this. The guy quit on his team, trashed the organization, and basically forced a trade. I supported Beckham through all the sideline stuff but that crap isn’t something anyone should stand for. And dion played 20 years ago. Got any relevant comps?

I don’t see it that way.
I don’t think he quit, he had 1 bad play. He had dozens of super high effort plays last year everyone forgets.

Trashed the organization is a stretch, and it’s not like the org deserved accolades. At least one guy wasn’t ok with all the losing.

I doubt I will get anyone to see it my way but if he is able to have success on a perennial loser like Cleveland then maybe it’s possible he wasn’t the problem here?

and his abilities to change a game. And its really hard when you see it happen in a Browns jersey while our current receiving corps is one of the worst in the NFL.

But the OBJ situation was only becoming worse and worse on the Giants. I am sure blame goes both ways to some degree, but in the end the Giants signed him, gave him a whole lot of money and his situation wasn't getting any better.

Maybe if the environment was different like the NYG were winning, or front office/coaching was more stable or Qb wasn't in decline then maybe OBj would have "played along" better. Maybe not.

He wasn't the first diva WR in the NFL that was a pain in the ass, and he sure as hell won't be the last...

and he wasnt the only problem here (I think that’s obvious) but he was certainly one of them. How come everyone else acted like a professional?

I miss watching him play and wish things were different at QB during his time here, but that doesn’t change how he acted.

In comment 14591112 Jimmy Googs said:

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and his abilities to change a game. And its really hard when you see it happen in a Browns jersey while our current receiving corps is one of the worst in the NFL. But the OBJ situation was only becoming worse and worse on the Giants. I am sure blame goes both ways to some degree, but in the end the Giants signed him, gave him a whole lot of money and his situation wasn't getting any better. Maybe if the environment was different like the NYG were winning, or front office/coaching was more stable or Qb wasn't in decline then maybe OBj would have "played along" better. Maybe not. He wasn't the first diva WR in the NFL that was a pain in the ass, and he sure as hell won't be the last...

And that sums it up. You don't think we got enough in return last offseason? If the trend continued we would have gotten even less this season/offseason and so on. At some point, he becomes untradeable and we're stuck with an untradeable malcontent.

We had him for 5 seasons. He was getting worse, not better.

nothing was.

In comment 14591117 Britt in VA said:

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nothing was.

yep...

In comment 14591117 Britt in VA said:

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nothing was.

Disagree. Winning would make him happy.
That’s all he wants.

Funny thing is on Gettleman’s first day he said he wants guys that hate to lose, then he ships out the only guy on the team that actually feels that way.

To see how much worse he continues to get.

Winning does cure many ills, but for some of these guys even that is fleeting.

I wonder if OBJ was one of those guys...

In comment 14591133 Jimmy Googs said:

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Winning does cure many ills, but for some of these guys even that is fleeting. I wonder if OBJ was one of those guys...

All we need is time to find out the answer to that one.

Although if he becomes a happy successful member of a winning organization I’m sure many here will give credit for his “turnaround “ to the giants and the wake up call that gave him by trading him.

In comment 14591140 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14591133 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Winning does cure many ills, but for some of these guys even that is fleeting. I wonder if OBJ was one of those guys... All we need is time to find out the answer to that one. Although if he becomes a happy successful member of a winning organization I’m sure many here will give credit for his “turnaround “ to the giants and the wake up call that gave him by trading him.

I don't know about that one. But if he hoists up a Lombardi some day (before we do) I definitely will be pissed...

In comment 14591125 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14591117 Britt in VA said: Quote: nothing was. Disagree. Winning would make him happy. That’s all he wants. Funny thing is on Gettleman’s first day he said he wants guys that hate to lose, then he ships out the only guy on the team that actually feels that way.

And that’s where you lost me. Beckham was the only one that hates to lose? Talk about bullshit.

Can't Barkley hate losing just as much as Beckham and not feel the need to be gigantic distraction in the wake of that? It looks that way so far to me.

This idea that he's just excused for everything in the name of not wanting to lose is such horse shit.

Larry Fitzgerald has been on a ton of losing football teams. He never felt the need to make it about him or make it a story. It's not that hard to be a professional.

But a competent organization should be able to 1) put out a decent enough of a team that doesn’t lose so much as it gets your best players frustrated.
2) be able to manage guys with “personalities”

On a flip side, if the losing continues, im not so sure everyone will remain a good soldier.

I defended every moment of Beckham's time with the Giants until those final four games. All of it doesn't matter if you don't want to be on the field.

What concerns me is management knew who he was, and identified him as someone who was part of their plan. A plan strongly predicated on good behavior and culture. If that's true, what the f-ck are they thinking extending Beckham? Beckham didn't sign the deal and become a turd. He was a turd from year 2 forward.

It shows me either Shurmur can't manage personalities or Gettleman is just making it up as he goes.

In comment 14591080 UConn4523 said:

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you seem to be mistaking Beckham’s talent with his value when he was traded. They aren’t close to being the same thing. All the talent in the world doesn’t matter if the player refuses to play, becomes a cancer, dogs it on the field, trashes the organization publicly, etc. We moved on and got picks and a player back for him. If the picks don’t work out, blame the drafting not the trade.

1) The way to deal with the locker room problems was to bring in a coach who could handle the talent, not bring in a nobody like Shurmur and give away all the talent for picks that, historically, are unlikely to produce comparable talent.

2) You have the draft pick situation exactly backwards. If we get really good players from them, that will be more than one should expect. Therefore I will credit the drafting, rather than the trade. Going by historical averages one can expect a decent starter from a mid first and a decent backup or role player from a late 3rd. That would be no compensation for Beckham. Both GMs and fans tend to overvalue draft picks by focusing on what they hope to get from the pick instead of what historically happens. The GMs do it because they all think they are smarter than average; by definition most aren't. I am not sure why fans get caught up in this.

3) And one really can't understand the combinations of fire sale and bringing in over the hill players in FA and Beckham's contract.

In comment 14591165 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 14591125 ron mexico said: Quote: In comment 14591117 Britt in VA said: Quote: nothing was. Disagree. Winning would make him happy. That’s all he wants. Funny thing is on Gettleman’s first day he said he wants guys that hate to lose, then he ships out the only guy on the team that actually feels that way. And that’s where you lost me. Beckham was the only one that hates to lose? Talk about bullshit.

Haha, so you were on my side until that comment?

Everyone else seems pretty nonplussed. Possible exception of Jackrabbit.

Happy to take a look at evidence to the contrary though.

I’m not over valuing picks. Beckham wasn’t working out for many reasons. We got assets back. Maybe it wasn’t enough for Beckham the talent but at the time it’s more than I thought we’d get for Beckham the player.

Ron, no I didn’t agree with you but I respected your position until you claimed he was the only one that hated losing. It’s a preposterous statement.