From day 1 Mike has been critical of the Giants for having Eli and Jones on the team. He claims it is the result of not having plan.
I disagreed with his take right along because the Giants believed they could contend for the play offs, in which case keeping Eli and getting the young quarterback made sense.
His criticism is misdirected. The Giants should be questioned as to how they looked at this roster and felt it was a contender, but his idea that you can’t have an established veteran like Eli and the young rookie never made sense to me.
His second pt made yesterday is that this is a move to take the heat off themselves about winning this season because it s all about developing the kid now.
I disagree, I think the Giants believe Jones gives them the better chance to win now.
It wouldn’t make sense to give up on a quarterback after 2 games in a season where you thought playoffs were a possibility unless the above is true.
As it turns out, all you who believed Eli should have been released were correct; the Giants once again miscalculated where they were.
They had a plan, it was just the wrong plan.
His second point I think is dead on balls accurate. Giving Jones the nod after just two weeks is because they want to change the narrative of the season to development instead of competing. Buys time for Shurmur to lose more since expectations have now dropped to zero. I think Francesa has it right on point two.
The way this is going down is a disservice to Eli and DJ.
This move is 100% about developing this young team and not winning games.
DG and Ownership made this messy situation.
disagree on both points. While undoubtedly the second has truth in it, I don't think it is the reason. They see that DJ can do things that Eli can't and they want to get started on the transition. Frankly, holding both of his positions at the same time are logically inconsistent. Is developing the next QB the right move or not?
Management will say Eli has shown all the other things that we don’t see. His professionalism. His work ethic. Media dealings. Being a good teammate. There are tangibles and intangibles they obviously feel are beneficial for Jones to learn from while Eli is in the building.
I’m not sure why people can’t see it both ways.
disagree on both points. While undoubtedly the second has truth in it, I don't think it is the reason. They see that DJ can do things that Eli can't and they want to get started on the transition. Frankly, holding both of his positions at the same time are logically inconsistent. Is developing the next QB the right move or not?
It is, they should have cut Eli loose. They thought they could compete and can not. The move this early shows they were wrong and the team is crap. This allows Shurmur to use Eli as the lightning rod one last time to buy more time to pad his losing record.
This move is 100% about developing this young team and not winning games.
DG and Ownership made this messy situation.
He's not coming in to win games? He's going out there to go through the motions?
I believe Jones gives them a better chance to win than Eli does. That was a pathetic showing Sunday. Wobbling passes. A few knocked down at the LoS with one intercepted. Indecisive on pulling the trigger. Dying quails. Inability to throw on the run...
Windows open and close quickly in the NFL in the passing game. Did you see Allen break free on numerous occasions to extend plays and run from pressure, completing several passes while doing so. Not saying Jones will do as well as Allen. But he will do better than Eli.
Love the man and what he did for the Giants. Jones will give them a better chance to win while learning to play.
Quote:
If you think Jones is coming into win games you have a rude awaking coming for the rest of this season.
This move is 100% about developing this young team and not winning games.
DG and Ownership made this messy situation.
He's not coming in to win games? He's going out there to go through the motions?
I believe Jones gives them a better chance to win than Eli does. That was a pathetic showing Sunday. Wobbling passes. A few knocked down at the LoS with one intercepted. Indecisive on pulling the trigger. Dying quails. Inability to throw on the run...
Windows open and close quickly in the NFL in the passing game. Did you see Allen break free on numerous occasions to extend plays and run from pressure, completing several passes while doing so. Not saying Jones will do as well as Allen. But he will do better than Eli.
Love the man and what he did for the Giants. Jones will give them a better chance to win while learning to play.
we will see
The Giants have lost a ton with Eli as QB1 recently. So, there is no real argument for Eli since he they keep losing and he is old.
Jones giving them a better chance? Jury is way out on that one. Many are putting a lot of stock in the pre-season. The whole team looked good in preseason, they have beem hot garbage when the bullets fly for real.
in fairness, the o line is better and getting Zeitler is a big reason
One variable that changed thing was Jones great preseason. The Odel situation changes things. I think there were verbal plans about building up both lines and bringing in players in line with the culture they wanted to create for the long term. I think a lot of other factors and choices do change on a weekly basis.
One variable that changed thing was Jones great preseason. The Odel situation changes things. I think there were verbal plans about building up both lines and bringing in players in line with the culture they wanted to create for the long term. I think a lot of other factors and choices do change on a weekly basis.
Golden Tate and Shepard are far from the answer on offense. They will help, but they aren’t these amazing talents that everyone thinks they are. They are OK.
The Giants thought they were better than they are. They thought they would be better than last year and with a few breaks be in the hunt for the post-season. At the same time, they thought they could gradually develop Jones. They were absolutely wrong. That's on ownership, DG and Shurmur. We cannot fire the owners unfortunately. So, now its up to DG and Shurmur to produce.
Also, the kid looked great in the preseason, and I think they think they have something there. I think that was a HUGE factor in their decision. He needs to play.
Now, they need to show progress and get better. They will need to be patient with Jones. Winning the pre-season and the regular season are two entirely different things. He is going to make mistakes. He might win them some games, he is likely to lose more than his wins.
Final Thought - Bettcher is definitely on the hot seat IMO. Shurmur could go if they continue to get worse and finish with an abysmal record (1-15, 2-14, something like that).
Yes, the defense sucks so far. Did anyone really know that there would be such a hard transition for Deandre Baker? Plans and expectations change all the time.
The decision to make the changes now was a result of looking at the pros and cons. A big one to me were the fans and media screaming for a change now. And I think keeping Eli at a 500 regular season record was also a big factor....yes, I really believe that was part of the calculus and I am glad that it was.
Not once, but fucking twice now. We wasted all of last year in the process. Meanwhile Philly and Dallas got better and we stayed in neutral or actually got worse.
If you want to piss off Francesa, refuse to kiss the ring and don't tell him what's going on so he can come off as being an all access guy. So if he doesn't have the access, that means he will trash anything that Gettleman says/does. The Giants will be a punching bag for him all year.
The reality is that in some cases his criticism isn't off base, particularly on the roster spot/salary for Eli and Shurmur as a coach. But he's doing it from the biased standpoint that he wants to discredit Gettleman, because Gettleman didn't give him special treatment and froze his dumb ass out.
This move is 100% about developing this young team and not winning games.
DG and Ownership made this messy situation.
Read a bit more carefully. I didn’t state “I” think they would be better
They have been wrong about everything so far so no reason to trust them. But if Shurmur thinks his offense cant be run by Eli, he has to make this move or he's gone anyway.
He said that the team was no good - a lot of question marks on O, a defense that was incomplete and unproven. He was 100% right there.
He said that the Giants should have either gone with Eli and drafted something else, or parted ways with Eli and put Jones right in. They effectively did that 2 games in, while still paying Eli $23M and causing a huge circus. He's right here again.
I don't say this very often, but Francesa nailed this one. His delivery is awful, and his reaction to the pick - essentially that he was lied to - was beyond ridiculous, it was borderline insane. Everything else though, was absolutely right. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But nobody should accuse the Giants of having a plan. It’d be easy to ridicule them for simply being incompetent but I think it’s worse than that because they insist on making moves that exactly counter decisions they purported to have thought long and hard about. Look at all the dead cap money, how can a GM get away with that?
But nobody should accuse the Giants of having a plan. It’d be easy to ridicule them for simply being incompetent but I think it’s worse than that because they insist on making moves that exactly counter decisions they purported to have thought long and hard about. Look at all the dead cap money, how can a GM get away with that?
+1 Especially coming on the heels of the OBJ trade "We didn't sign him just to trade him" well WHY?
I agree with your take on Francesa/Giants, but the strange thing is Gettleman was on Francesa's show a few days before the draft and made it pretty obvious a QB would be drafted, without coming right out and saying it. I don't know why Mike was so blindsided by it.
haha
all the Francesa criticism is spot on, he is a huge arrogant prick
I still listen at work or in car basically everyday.