In sports you often here the words retooling and rebuilding with regards to teams. A lot of times teams like to use the term retooling Vs. Rebuilding because rebuilding is a lengthy process and retooling is more of a quick fix.
Retooling generally is for a team that has a strong core or nucleolus of players but the complimentary pieces need to be changed. A good example of this could be the '93 Giants. For those of you who are not old enough to remember '92, that team had a strong core of players like Simms, LT, Howard Cross, Ed McCaffrey, Rodney Hampton, Jumbo Elliott, Bart Oates, Brian Williams and Mark Collins to name a few. The coaching was abysmal. In the '93 off season the Giants added Mark Jackson and Mike Sherrard to the offense, Carlton Bailey, Michael Brooks to the Defense and brought in a new coaching staff to take advantage of the talent already present and boom the team goes 11-5 (improving from 6-10).
Rebuilding is different. Rebuilding means you do not have a core of players to build around. Rebuilding takes 3-5 years and is often not a quick fix. The Giants started rebuilding in December of 2017 when Dave Gettleman was hired. It is a slow process and painful process. The only great player the Giants had in December of '17 was OBJ. As much as I love OBJ and as talented as he is, he is a tough player to rebuild around. That is why he was traded. The Giants have spent the past two seasons, shoring up the O-Line, drafting a core player in Barkley and getting out of Cap hell. Bad contracts to JPP, Snacks, Eli, Jenkins etc will be off the books in 2020. We have drafted a franchise QB. While in the off season, everything looked better then last year with a better OL, the team realized fast they are not ready to compete yet for a playoff berth. Hence the quick decision to play for the future. Enter Daniel Jones.
Next year, year 3 of rebuilding, the Giants will have a TON of cap space, more youth and more time logged for their new core.
Patience is key. The team held on to Eli a year too late. It happens. McAdoo was not wrong for wanting to move on from Eli, he and ownership botched the transition. Now we are here. With a new QB and a new future.
If you go back and watch the 1989 Giants Yearbook, Parcells talked about the fact that the Giants were a team in transition, but his goal was to keep winning while the team was in transition. Meaning, he was replacing his offensive line and going bigger as the Suburbanites all had retired (except Oates) and he was getting in Jumbo, Roberts, etc. He also was changing up the defensive backs, but he kept the core of the team in place with leaders.
A rebuild is a blow up where you are starting the whole thing over. The Giants tried mask a rebuild as a transition, if that makes sense. Hence keeping Eli, signing Tate, etc. They wanted to see if they could get hot, eek out 8 wins and back into the playoffs. After 2 games they realized that wasn't happening so they dropped the act. But if you are paying attention, Gettleman has more or less turned over the entire roster, save Eli until now. This was always a rebuild. Mara said something at the end of last year that this might not be just a one year fix. The Giants always knew this was going to go this way and hoped that things would click. The truth will set them free.
But they did start getting some building blocks. Barkley is the face of the team. He was named captain for a reason. The offensive line (gasp!) looks solid. Engram looks like he is going to be a piece to work with. Now we need to figure out on defense who can play and who can't.
We always said that 2020 was the real year where they will have 3 drafts under Gettleman and plenty of cap room.
LA Rams:
2018 13-3-0 1st -- NFC West - Sean McVay HC
2017 11-5-0 1st -- NFC West - Sean McVay HC
2016 4-12-0 3rd -- NFC West - Jeff Fisher HC
That's an entirely different sport. Look more closely at the Eagles and Rams of recent years.
I guess the difficult part to accept is how off-target they were as far as where they felt the team currently stood in the grand scheme of things and how they handled Eli and bringing him back, etc. We're pretty clearly not ready to win games right now once the bullets started flying. The defense was nowhere near ready for that; and so it's clear to me that there's certainly a disconnect somewhere in terms of where they saw this team going this year and where the team actually is.
I didn't think the Giants would be a good team this year - I did think they'd be more competitive than they've been through 2 weeks.
It really just comes down to Jones now. If he's the goods - we have a good bit of cap space next offseason, we have another set of draft picks. We've got to fix this pass rush. We have to get to the QB, we have to continue to keep the trenches healthy with talent. We need a WR1.
But a lot of this can and should be addressed.
2020 was always the realistic target. But, I think if management were a little more honest with themselves regarding where this team actually is right now, they wouldn't have wasted time doing this song and dance with Eli again.
Teams just don't have forever to develop players now it's more about coaching than ever.
hey look, i get it, fans want results NOW. they see the giants playing the cowboys and it's almost like they think the giants should win because they're the giants and the cowboys are the cowboys.
but that's not the way it works. rosters absolutely matter. and at this point in time, their roster is just better than ours and it's not even close. it doesn't mean it will always be that way, but the cowboys are smack dab in the middle of their window and we're still putting the glass in the panes.
you have to take a longer view. think seasons, not games. we've had what seem to be a couple of decent drafts so the arrow is pointing up. i know i'm in the minority, but i like what gettleman and shurmur are doing. if jones shows any promise/progress at all this year, i think it's 100% certainty that shurmur will be the coach next year too, and i'm okay with that. keep drafting wisely, use the cap space judiciously, and in a year or two, we'll see a much more competitive team.
That said, clarify and simplify the dbacks as the DL gets things more and more variable.
That said, clarify and simplify the dbacks as the DL gets things more and more variable.
Bettcher gets no pass from me, this defense was bad last year and terrible now. His blitz schemes take forever to develop and never get home. He must have had a hand in bringing in all these ex-cardinals who have shown absolutely zip so far. Which begs the question why would you look to that team for defensive talent??? So no he gets no pass from me till this defense starts to look like a professional team that knows their assignments, that's coaching!
Some of the trades brought us back quality players in Peppers (hoping) and Zeitler. FA has not been great yet but let's face it, we are shopping in the bargain aisle for the most part. Next year is the make or break for DG. He has to strike Gold in FA when he has the money and he needs a good draft as well to set this team up for the next 3-5 years. His 1st 2 drafts will have to show more promise as some guys need to reach the next level.
DJ is the key, if he doesnt pan out we are done for the next few years
I think he meant Barkley looks like a HoF talent and Hernandez a pro bowler. Still TBD, to be sure... but I don't think he meant Hernandez was a HoF caliber player. At least I hope not....
In comment 14585617 arniefez said:
LA Rams:
2018 13-3-0 1st -- NFC West - Sean McVay HC
2017 11-5-0 1st -- NFC West - Sean McVay HC
2016 4-12-0 3rd -- NFC West - Jeff Fisher HC
Market and commanding top dollar
In baseball, you control a draft pick for six years in the minors and six in the majors. 12 years total
You can have a five year rebuild in baseball. Not in football
the problem is that the Giants themselves don't seem to know how to undertake a rebuild. a rebuilding team doesn't trade draft picks for an overpaid 2 down linebacker. doesn't trade a draft pick for a second rate punter (!!!!). doesn't make an a mediocre OT on the downside of his career the highest paid tackle in the league. and doesn't simultaneously extend a slot receiver while giving another, older slot receiver, a 4 year contract. if you want to believe the DG has some special insight into players because he drafted SB with the 2nd pick in the draft, go ahead, but this idea that his drafts have been so great, or having millions of $ to spend in free agency somehow guarantees he'll acquire quality players, is not actually based on his record. so being skeptical of what they're doing and their ability to do it isn't about being a dumb fan who doesn't understand a rebuild. it's about taking what they've done so far into consideration and wondering if they're competent to do it.
There is no reason to have faith that these are the people to successfully rebuild this team. I'm confident Shurmur at minimum will be let go after 2020.
This front office is lost. We don't want them running the rebuild. That's the point that doesn't seem to be sinking in.
It's darker times than I thought if we are holding onto a coach that's 15-36 or not firing a GM because you "may not get a top flight coach"
Sadly this might be true (given that Shurmur actually looks worse than Macadoo) but we still have to try
Next up - the 10-year hot seat. Shurmur better get this team winning in the next 10 years - or else! That seat will go from room temperature to lukewarm to warm to heating up to uncomfortable to mildly hot to hot in no time!
How about this for a thread title: Understanding that by year 4 of a “rebuild” you start to lose the cheap rookie contracts that fuel a successful rebuild
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Gettleman got the job because he agreed with them. Mara was not ready to dump Eli. This situation caused Gettleman to overpay for a LT and a few other bad moves. If you want the GM fired along with coach you may not get a top flight coach because of ownership.
It's darker times than I thought if we are holding onto a coach that's 15-36 or not firing a GM because you "may not get a top flight coach"
Sadly this might be true (given that Shurmur actually looks worse than Macadoo) but we still have to try
Hernandez has been a nice player thus far but he's a long way from a Pro Bowler.
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In comment 14586700 joe48 said:
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Gettleman got the job because he agreed with them. Mara was not ready to dump Eli. This situation caused Gettleman to overpay for a LT and a few other bad moves. If you want the GM fired along with coach you may not get a top flight coach because of ownership.
It's darker times than I thought if we are holding onto a coach that's 15-36 or not firing a GM because you "may not get a top flight coach"
Sadly this might be true (given that Shurmur actually looks worse than Macadoo) but we still have to try
BB is a GOAT Coach but where would he be without Tom Brady?
Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled
This is coming from someone that actually supports DG as GM and while I have questions about Shurmur, I'd like to see him with his QB and not one that was foisted on him from owndership. Becher is the one guy that has me scratching my head, he needs to clean up the defense, but I'm willing to give him the season to do it and show progress.
After watching Gettleman spend in the FA window so far, what the hell gives you any confidence Gettleman he will do better with more money at his disposal?
After watching Gettleman spend in the FA window so far, what the hell gives you any confidence Gettleman he will do better with more money at his disposal?
You don't understand... We were retooling. Not trying to win, just be prepared to be blown away when we are actually trying to win. In a few short years, watch out!!
This is not a rebuild. This is the total demolition of a team with no demonstrated ability on the part of the owner, the GM or the HC. Banking on Gettleman because he chose Barkley is the same as banking on Reese because he chose Beckham. What about the rest of the team?
Even during the darkest days, I never saw this team get rid of virtually everyone with any value and try and build from the very ground up like an expansion team. A team needs at least 22 guys who can play. Right now we have maybe 3 or 4 and a question mark at qb. The draft is 7 rounds and it’s delusional to think they all make it. So where are the players going to come from and how many years do you have?