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Mara/Gettleman getting criticism from both sides re: Eli

Sean : 9/18/2019 9:13 am
Francesa saying it was classless for there to be no quote from Mara/Gettleman with regards to Eli benching. Insensitive/disrespectful.

Itís easy for fans to pound these guys, but we should all acknowledge how tough it is to move on from franchise legends. So, to recap:

1. How dare the Giants bench Eli for Geno in 2017 at 2-9.

2. How could the Giants bring back Eli in 2018 & not draft a QB?

3. Giants are clueless for spending $23M on Eli for 2019.

4. How dare Mara/DG not say anything on the day Jones is named the starter. Show some respect!

This could have definitely been handled better, but people were going to bitch no matter what when it came to this.
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It's Francesa..  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/18/2019 9:14 am : link
who cares?
Francessa is an idiot  
Chip : 9/18/2019 9:15 am : link
and most people know that
As  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2019 9:15 am : link
has been pointed out by others on this site, in a way, McAdoo did Shurmur a huge favor by ending the streak. He took that off of the table.
RE: As  
figgy2989 : 9/18/2019 9:17 am : link
In comment 14585585 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
has been pointed out by others on this site, in a way, McAdoo did Shurmur a huge favor by ending the streak. He took that off of the table.


You ain't kidding on that one. Can you imagine if that cloud was still hovering over?

I am kind of surprised that we haven't seen a statement from Mara on this though. We all know how much Eli means to him and this franchise.
RE: As  
ron mexico : 9/18/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14585585 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
has been pointed out by others on this site, in a way, McAdoo did Shurmur a huge favor by ending the streak. He took that off of the table.


technically it was Eli's call - So pat should be thanking Eli

RE: As  
jcn56 : 9/18/2019 9:19 am : link
In comment 14585585 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
has been pointed out by others on this site, in a way, McAdoo did Shurmur a huge favor by ending the streak. He took that off of the table.


This discounts the fact that without that outrage McAdoo is probably still the coach.

And I'm not saying he should have been...
It's en vogue right now  
bigbluehoya : 9/18/2019 9:21 am : link
to shit all over whatever the NYG are doing. They've basically earned it with 8 years of garbage management and garbage play.

Nearly every talking head was hammering them for hanging on to Eli to begin the season.

And now half of them do the about face to shit on the org for moving on to the future guy.

Doesn't matter what the actual decisions are in the moment, we should all expect them to be shit all over at every turn until they show some trajectory toward a positive state of things.
Wait so the Giants have handled this well?  
Justlurking : 9/18/2019 9:23 am : link
This is as bad a stretch of Giants football that I can remember. Just outright bad teams with no future in sight. Laughable decisions. Just a complete dumpster fire. They should be criticized for everything that theyve done.

Criticizing the DG and Mara  
Captplanet : 9/18/2019 9:24 am : link
has become a great way to generate revenue for your website or radio show.

No one is shitting on them for playing Jones  
Justlurking : 9/18/2019 9:25 am : link
Its that Eli should never have been brought back or Jones should have been day 1 starter. I think all criticism is about how poorly they have made football decisions. Quality franchises dont behave this way.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2019 9:25 am : link
We'll see what the Giants do today. There was no media access to the team yesterday (the norm on Tuesday after a Sunday game).

The way the Giants handled this back in 2017 was terrible. And I don't think Mara ever understood that it was not that Eli was benched that year, but the WAY he was benched and WHO he was benched for. He never understood the reasons for the backlash.

Both Reese and Mara were nowhere to be seen the day it happened (there was media access on THAT day... Mara was supposedly out of town, but you have to adjust).
If NY teams just stopped  
ATL_Giants : 9/18/2019 9:27 am : link
granting Francesa interviews, it would take a lot of wind out of his sails.

At one time he was a respected voice in NY sports media, but he's a freaking idiot now. Teams should give interviews, just to someone less of a blithering douche.
RE: ...  
Justlurking : 9/18/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14585615 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We'll see what the Giants do today. There was no media access to the team yesterday (the norm on Tuesday after a Sunday game).

The way the Giants handled this back in 2017 was terrible. And I don't think Mara ever understood that it was not that Eli was benched that year, but the WAY he was benched and WHO he was benched for. He never understood the reasons for the backlash.

Both Reese and Mara were nowhere to be seen the day it happened (there was media access on THAT day... Mara was supposedly out of town, but you have to adjust).


Yes, completely out of touch. Shouldve learned from that debacle. Apparently he didnt.

For the record, Geno didnt look any worse than Eli.
Honestly, I think it would have been best for everybody...  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/18/2019 9:29 am : link
...if Eli retired after 2017. Of course I donít blame him, bet he would have left with a winning record and without the stink of the last two seasons and the giants would have had a one year jump on grooming his replacement.
Justlurking  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2019 9:30 am : link
If I recall, Geno actually did fairly well except for a couple of bad fumbles.
RE: If NY teams just stopped  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2019 9:31 am : link
In comment 14585616 ATL_Giants said:
Quote:
granting Francesa interviews, it would take a lot of wind out of his sails.

At one time he was a respected voice in NY sports media, but he's a freaking idiot now. Teams should give interviews, just to someone less of a blithering douche.


I still think there is more to the story of Eli cancelling his annual spot on Francesca's show. I think Eli knew this was coming this year and didn't want to deal with it.
I think it is safe to assume  
johnnyb : 9/18/2019 9:32 am : link
that both Mara and Gettleman spoke to Eli yesterday after the decision was made. The fact that there was not a public quote from either does not matter to me. As a fan I really don't care, but just more ammunition for Fransessa to fire away his hate at the Giant organization.
the backlash was ludicrous anyway  
Greg from LI : 9/18/2019 9:32 am : link
That's what people got all up in arms about. Not that the team stunk and had stunk for years, but Eli was benched for a game.
Iím in the minority, but never had issue with Geno starting..  
Sean : 9/18/2019 9:33 am : link
Practices matter. We never saw Geno in practice or the progression he showed. Davis Webb can barely stay on a practice squad while Geno continues to serve as a backup.

So, at 2-9 what is the harm in letting a former 2nd round pick who is still young start a game?
Sure would be great to have  
Metnut : 9/18/2019 9:35 am : link
talents like Beckham and Barkley for our new QB. Hope our front office knows what it's doing.
Really have to remember is that Francessa is now a jilted lover  
Chef : 9/18/2019 9:38 am : link
regarding the Giants and the bias is going to come through...
RE: the backlash was ludicrous anyway  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14585634 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
That's what people got all up in arms about. Not that the team stunk and had stunk for years, but Eli was benched for a game.


I disagree completely. Instead of a podium event, they had a swarm of media surround Eli at his locker with teammates laughing in the background. Eli had tears in his eyes.

It was a PR fail.
People care way, way too much about appearances  
Greg from LI : 9/18/2019 9:43 am : link
That's one of the root issues with the Giants - more worried about how things look rather than whether the team is worth a damn.

PR is bullshit.
What seems to work well here and in politics, anything media  
jvm52106 : 9/18/2019 9:46 am : link
covered etc. is taking a side opposite of whatever the decision was by a group or person. If Manning starts again and throws two picks this weekend, looks pathetic on a rollout and fumbles or gets sacks- everyone will go Manning is not what he was, is not a starting QB, how long until we see Jones...

The Giants instead play Jones and now it is Manning is not the reason they lost, Manning can't play defense, look at the scrub WR's, Shurmur and Gettleman are clueless....

I find it pathetic..

Jones HAS to play.,. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, saw Jones foresaw Jones's preseason performance. In fact, the narrative before camp and preseason was how the Giants fell flat on their faces at the draft, passing on pass rusher Allen, Passing on Haskins at QB for a QB that was projected to go way way lower! But, Jones's play showed he is ready to play. Doesn't mean he will be perfect but can you honestly say that Jones will make mistakes that Eli doesn't still, after 16 years, make? Jones is our guy going forward. Eli does not deserve and special treatment, as his pay is his treatment. For all you folks crying about deserving better, the Giants are eating up Cap space and giving guaranteed money to Eli to now be the backup the rest of the year. They could have cut him in the off season and more than likely his career would have been done!

Give Jones a chance to play! He is Shurmur's guy!

Not saying it is the SAME exactly but:

Bill B. had records of 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5 and 5-11 in Cleveland.That is a losing record. Then in NE he goes 5-11 in year 1. GOes 11-5 and wins SB in year 2. BUT, he started out 0-2 with losses to the Bengals and the Jets with long time starting QB Drew Bledsoe. Bledsoe gets injured late against the Jets and Tom Brady takes over. The Pats actually started 1-3 that year and won game 5 in OT... A loss in that game keeps Pats out of playoffs and no run that year and who knows after that.

My point is, it is way to early to tell about Shurmur as a HC with the Giants, too soon to pass negative judgment on JOnes as the starting QB BUT, Eli has had his time here. We know what he is now, what he used to be and we know things are not going to change or get better with Eli. This is NOW Pat Shurmur's team. This is now Jones's time!
Are Mara and Gettlemen going address this or at least  
micky : 9/18/2019 9:47 am : link
say something about it today? Or hide from it?

I'm Eli wasn't just some schmo of a qb, he was face of your franchise for 16 seasons. Show a little respect.

But i guess it'll go the way when eli was benched from Mara. Gettlemen? No clue though..
RE: Are Mara and Gettlemen going address this or at least  
micky : 9/18/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14585679 micky said:
Quote:
say something about it today? Or hide from it?

I mean, Eli wasn't just some schmo of a qb, he was face of your franchise for 16 seasons. Show a little respect.

But i guess it'll go the way when eli was benched from Mara. Gettlemen? No clue though..
enough about fuckin' preseason  
Greg from LI : 9/18/2019 9:48 am : link
Do you know which rookie QB lit up preseason in 2017? Mitch Trubisky. It is utterly meaningless.
RE: enough about fuckin' preseason  
Sean : 9/18/2019 9:50 am : link
In comment 14585686 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Do you know which rookie QB lit up preseason in 2017? Mitch Trubisky. It is utterly meaningless.


Well, we are going to find out soon enough Greg.
Ownership needs to streamline decision making  
DavidinBMNY : 9/18/2019 9:53 am : link
The Giants way - is not working. Having the Ownership, the GM, the Head Coach all being aligned is leading to wasted resource and time.

They need to fix the structure of how they run the team. I'm pretty sure if Shurmur is making this move 2 weeks in , he wanted to make this move at the start of the season.
RE: enough about fuckin' preseason  
jvm52106 : 9/18/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14585686 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Do you know which rookie QB lit up preseason in 2017? Mitch Trubisky. It is utterly meaningless.


If that is directed at my comment I will tell you how you are wrong in your assessment of my statement. I said, nobody foresaw how he performed- meaning they expected him to need a long learning curve. Jones played with the first team and shutdown many arguments against his ability (don't care preseason or otherwise as these are not game specific perceived negatives):

1) Playing against top tier talent
2) Arm strength
3) Being able to read defenses that are more complex
4) Time from read to reaction

These possible negatives were shot down by his play in the preseason. He showed more than enough arm strength. He showed quick reaction. He showed he knew where to go with the ball.

You can't fucking tell me that Eli should be playing knowing that Jones is the guy going forward. Rip the fucking bandaid off and stop living in the past. We have sucked for 6 plus years and we have had 1 main starting QB, 2 GM's, 3 HC's during that time. Not blaming the QB alone but at some point you have to realize that what you are getting does not equal the rose colored glasses of 07 and 11 that you are wearing.
RE: enough about fuckin' preseason  
bw in dc : 9/18/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14585686 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Do you know which rookie QB lit up preseason in 2017? Mitch Trubisky. It is utterly meaningless.


On the flip side, I seem to recall DeShawn Watson being just brutally bad in preseason. Casting some early doubts. But then the lights came on and he just turned into Superman.

Indeed. Preseason is not an indicator of future success or failure.
RE: Justlurking  
Justlurking : 9/18/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14585627 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If I recall, Geno actually did fairly well except for a couple of bad fumbles.


Yes, a few bad turnovers but played ok. Mobility definitely helped.
if you want to relive the magic - ( New Window )
This is becoming  
ryanmkeane : 9/18/2019 9:58 am : link
a parody on to itself. Who throws a fucking press conference/podium event in week 3? Before the last game of the season, sure. People acting like we need to roll out this huge event for the Eli thing right now...cmon. Its week 3! We have some games to play here.
damn Engram had game of his life  
Justlurking : 9/18/2019 9:59 am : link
with Geno...haha
The damning thing, and the thing that makes me sympathize a bit  
Greg from LI : 9/18/2019 10:00 am : link
with McAdoo is that the offense was about the same with sucko Geno Smith playing. That was the big flashing red light that Eli was on his last legs.
There is a great story here...  
bw in dc : 9/18/2019 10:08 am : link
if the media wants to find it. And that's how this decision to bench Eli went down.

How did it flow? Did Gettleman and Shurmur pow-wow first? When was it decided? Did they then walk to Mara's office sweating profusely wondering what the reaction would be? What was Mara's reaction? Did DG and PR have an ace-in-the-hole with the idea that preserving Eli's .500 record was critical? Did Mara call Accorsi for his advice? Who met with Eli?

Because I believe there is no way on this big blue beautiful round marble called Earth that Shurmur made this decision in a vacuum.

RE: RE: If NY teams just stopped  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 10:12 am : link
In comment 14585631 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14585616 ATL_Giants said:


Quote:


granting Francesa interviews, it would take a lot of wind out of his sails.

At one time he was a respected voice in NY sports media, but he's a freaking idiot now. Teams should give interviews, just to someone less of a blithering douche.



I still think there is more to the story of Eli cancelling his annual spot on Francesca's show. I think Eli knew this was coming this year and didn't want to deal with it.


I mean that much is obvious when it happened at the time.
Agree with BW  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/18/2019 10:13 am : link
regarding Shurmur not making a independent decision.

Who really knows what the actual process was to getting to this point.....we are all speculating myself included.

I do sincerely believe there have been mini/major power struggles starting around 2012 with quite a few people in the organization.

The one thing I do fail certain about who ever influenced and was wrong or right there remains one constant.

The Giants simply have not acquired enough talent that goes back a very long time which has led to all this pointing fingers.

RE: There is a great story here...  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14585736 bw in dc said:
Quote:
if the media wants to find it. And that's how this decision to bench Eli went down.

How did it flow? Did Gettleman and Shurmur pow-wow first? When was it decided? Did they then walk to Mara's office sweating profusely wondering what the reaction would be? What was Mara's reaction? Did DG and PR have an ace-in-the-hole with the idea that preserving Eli's .500 record was critical? Did Mara call Accorsi for his advice? Who met with Eli?

Because I believe there is no way on this big blue beautiful round marble called Earth that Shurmur made this decision in a vacuum.


I would love to find this information out, but I think we have a GM that is finally able to circle the wagons and prevent any leaks. I doubt we find out how this went down anytime soon unlike the last time. I'm sure Eli will leak his version out there, but I doubt we get the whole story.
RE: ...  
Carson53 : 9/18/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14585615 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
We'll see what the Giants do today. There was no media access to the team yesterday (the norm on Tuesday after a Sunday game).

The way the Giants handled this back in 2017 was terrible. And I don't think Mara ever understood that it was not that Eli was benched that year, but the WAY he was benched and WHO he was benched for. He never understood the reasons for the backlash.

Both Reese and Mara were nowhere to be seen the day it happened (there was media access on THAT day... Mara was supposedly out of town, but you have to adjust).


If it wasn't Geno Friggin Smith, I don't think the uproar from the fans would have been so vocal....maybe if McAdoo had a clue about some football history in NYC, that would have helped. By not starting Webb at that point was a bit ludicrous, doesn't matter what Webb has done since.
There was an obvious miscommunication between the HC, GM,
and obviously Mara in how that was all handled.
Mara was the one who told the HC, 'to get a look at the
younger QB's....The fanbase didn't expect that to be Geno, that's for damn sure.
If it was Davis Webb playing like Davis Webb  
ron mexico : 9/18/2019 10:16 am : link
there probably would have been the same level of shit storm, it just would have been delayed till after the game.
RE: RE: As  
PatersonPlank : 9/18/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14585599 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14585585 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


has been pointed out by others on this site, in a way, McAdoo did Shurmur a huge favor by ending the streak. He took that off of the table.



This discounts the fact that without that outrage McAdoo is probably still the coach.

And I'm not saying he should have been...


So thank god for the outrage then
my note to Eli  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/18/2019 10:23 am : link
smile and take the money
RE: If it was Davis Webb playing like Davis Webb  
Carson53 : 9/18/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14585756 ron mexico said:
Quote:
there probably would have been the same level of shit storm, it just would have been delayed till after the game.
.

I am not sure about that, every football fan in NYC knew
who Geno Smith was, they didn't know a damn thing about
Davis Webb. They had five games at the end of that season to find out. You can't look back in hindsight now.
I am saying at that point, nobody really knew about Webb.
The uproar wouldn't have been as bad IMO.
Sounds like a dumbed down version of Mike Francesa  
ghost718 : 9/18/2019 10:25 am : link
Him and Michael Kay should now join forces
Do you understand just how bad Webb would look in an actual NFL game?  
ron mexico : 9/18/2019 10:27 am : link
Eli would have been put back in by the 2nd quarter.

The uproar for breaking the streak over that would have been tremendous.
RE: Do you understand just how bad Webb would look in an actual NFL game?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/18/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14585798 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Eli would have been put back in by the 2nd quarter.

The uproar for breaking the streak over that would have been tremendous.


We know that now (as did the coaching staff that was fired), but we didn't believe that as fans. And perception matters. Perception is what influenced Mara.
RE: RE: Do you understand just how bad Webb would look in an actual NFL game?  
Scooter185 : 9/18/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14585825 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14585798 ron mexico said:


Quote:


Eli would have been put back in by the 2nd quarter.

The uproar for breaking the streak over that would have been tremendous.



We know that now (as did the coaching staff that was fired), but we didn't believe that as fans. And perception matters. Perception is what influenced Mara.


Optics matter, and sitting Eli for Geno was the worst possible look
RE: Do you understand just how bad Webb would look in an actual NFL game?  
Carson53 : 9/18/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14585798 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Eli would have been put back in by the 2nd quarter.

The uproar for breaking the streak over that would have been tremendous.
.

because Eli has looked so good in recent years huh?
The uproar had more to do with WHO replaced him,
than the actual streak itself. Give Webb the five games
to show something or not. Then the new regime just cuts him, so they drafted Lauletta, that's right,
he's gone too...the mismanagement around here, oh my!
You are really missing the point, so I am done here.
The optics of benching Eli for a guy  
ron mexico : 9/18/2019 10:38 am : link
who was likely to throw up 3 interceptions in his fist 6 pass attempts would have been just as bad.

Whatever, its way in the past and has no bearing to what is going on now.


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