Jones exceeded all expectations in pre-season. They had no way to know that.
With Eli, I also think they wanted to honor the contract out of respect. Mara is still smarting from the humiliation of the last Eli benching. It was probably a $23 million dollar mistake in how that was handled.
Cutting him in March would have saved $17 million (2019 salary plus roster bonus + workout bonus.) The other $6.2M is what's left of the prorated signing bonus, you don't recoup that when a player is cut.
$6.2m of the cap hit was from his prorated signing bonus and $5m was from the Roster Bonus that was paid on 3/18.
I guess you could argue they could have cut Eli before 3/18, but at that point they probably hadn't finished their QB evaluations for the draft. Daniel Jones' pro day wasn't till after that date as well as the private workout. Cutting Eli before 3/18 would have been very risky, especially since they weren't guaranteed whoever they wanted at pick 6.
The $6.2MM in bonus amortization was a sunk cost. The $5MM roster bonus is arguable, but it was paid long before the Draft. That leaves the workout money and salary. Still a big chunk of cap space, but it’s half the amount in the thread starter.
Decision was made in March. They tried. Didn't count on Shep getting hurt, Tate being suspended or the pass rush non existent. Stop belly aching about Eli. Was a year too late instead of a year to early. It happens
The wasted money here is whatever they spent on the Offensive Line over the last 6 years -- some of the worst draft choices and free agents in league history !! If they could have protected you, I'm sure you would have delivered.
That the Giants knew Jones was going to be the pick a full 6-7 weeks prior to the draft when the Giants needed to make the decision to keep Eli and pay his bonus or cut ties.
Just ignore that fact so that you can go on criticizing them for bringing Eli back and "wasting" money that's not yours.
Money wasted means less money for good players - either this year or in future years.
There will come a time in the next couple of years where a move makes sense for us but we can’t make it bc of the cap. Stupid posters with the “it’s not your money” spiel should be reminded of these discussions then.
Lot’s of stupid on BBI the past couple of years. Mostly in the irrational defense of a done QB and a GM who doesn’t have the track record to back up his arrogance and mouth.
must not have car insurance. No sense having insurance since he knows the future. Giants should have known back in March DJ would be available and look good in preseason just like the poster did! Stupid Giants having useless insurance like Eli.
Money wasted means less money for good players - either this year or in future years.
There will come a time in the next couple of years where a move makes sense for us but we can’t make it bc of the cap. Stupid posters with the “it’s not your money” spiel should be reminded of these discussions then.
Lot’s of stupid on BBI the past couple of years. Mostly in the irrational defense of a done QB and a GM who doesn’t have the track record to back up his arrogance and mouth.
And some people need to understand what fluidity means and that things change constantly in the NFL - which is why judging decisions made in hindsight is stupid.
must not have car insurance. No sense having insurance since he knows the future. Giants should have known back in March DJ would be available and look good in preseason just like the poster did! Stupid Giants having useless insurance like Eli.
But does it really make sense to spend $23M on insurance when this DOA team only needed Final Expense Insurance?
All the responses you are getting(, just show that you are right. Because if people had a good counter argument they would use it
BBI daytime has a lot of blowhards and when they don’t like what you are saying, they do things like call you a troll and say your thread is a waste of tome. This is what low IQ individuals do
The truth is, the handling of Eli points to a lack of direction at the top
All the responses you are getting(, just show that you are right. Because if people had a good counter argument they would use it
BBI daytime has a lot of blowhards and when they don’t like what you are saying, they do things like call you a troll and say your thread is a waste of tome. This is what low IQ individuals do
The truth is, the handling of Eli points to a lack of direction at the top
this franchise has been a disaster for the past few years
the owners have literally changed coach GM just about every player on defense and offense
yet we still are a disaster
the one thing that has not changed is QB
Many of us were saying these exact same things in real time as they happened.
I continue to be stunned at the poor management of this team - although judging by the responses of some on here, it seems management is very comfortable in their seats knowing they have a contingent of supporters who will cheerlead and defend their every move.
Probably mostly true. But I think getting OBJ out of Eli's hair carried some weight.
OBJ did say in a roundabout a few years ago that Eli was just not able to deliver the ball anymore. Eli was slipping. And to OBJ's credit, he was right. But I don't think Jints Central liked hearing that...and that played a small part...
Many of us were saying these exact same things in real time as they happened.
I continue to be stunned at the poor management of this team - although judging by the responses of some on here, it seems management is very comfortable in their seats knowing they have a contingent of supporters who will cheerlead and defend their every move.
The "in hindsight bullshit" is that those who were saying it in real time had the convenience of saying "draft a QB" without knowing who was available and who they actually liked. In the real world you don't usually move on from someone until you have their replacement secured. In March the Giants had to weigh the uncertainty of not getting their man at the draft because they were drafting #6. People who have been saying "dump Eli" for the past 2 years are living under a delusion that anyone in the NFL would have done so with Geno Smith, Davis Webb, or Kyle Lauletta as the alternatives.
RE: i've been on this website for well over 20 years Â
Its only Mara's pocketbook so I don't give a dam. Hell give Eli a raise
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
The "in hindsight bullshit" is that those who were saying it in real time had the convenience of saying "draft a QB" without knowing who was available and who they actually liked. In the real world you don't usually move on from someone until you have their replacement secured. In March the Giants had to weigh the uncertainty of not getting their man at the draft because they were drafting #6. People who have been saying "dump Eli" for the past 2 years are living under a delusion that anyone in the NFL would have done so with Geno Smith, Davis Webb, or Kyle Lauletta as the alternatives.
Well said Eric. It's foolish to assume that the Giants not only were set on Jones nearly two months before the draft but that he was going to definitely be there at 6. What if the Giants had cut Jones and had Lauletta and Tanney on the depth chart. It was known that Jones was the QB they liked most. Had they released Eli then a team like Denver, Washington, Cincy, etc may have traded up in front of them to get Jones. Then what? The Giants are left with Tanney or Lauletta as their starter?
Its only Mara's pocketbook so I don't give a dam. Hell give Eli a raise
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
The Giants have the most dead cap room in the NFL. Had they released Eli they would have created 11.5 million in cap room but would also add 11 million more in dead money.
They are positioning themselves for 2020. This offseason they will have another draft plus plenty of cap room to address a few holes.
Many of us were saying these exact same things in real time as they happened.
I continue to be stunned at the poor management of this team - although judging by the responses of some on here, it seems management is very comfortable in their seats knowing they have a contingent of supporters who will cheerlead and defend their every move.
The "in hindsight bullshit" is that those who were saying it in real time had the convenience of saying "draft a QB" without knowing who was available and who they actually liked. In the real world you don't usually move on from someone until you have their replacement secured. In March the Giants had to weigh the uncertainty of not getting their man at the draft because they were drafting #6. People who have been saying "dump Eli" for the past 2 years are living under a delusion that anyone in the NFL would have done so with Geno Smith, Davis Webb, or Kyle Lauletta as the alternatives.
Disagree.
When you understand that you are at the beginning of a rebuild, your placeholder QB becomes a minor matter. There were several cheap placeholder options available. Many of us wanted to go with one of them. Doesn’t matter if we got our guy with the 2 pick or 6 pick - there was no reason to keep a $20+ Million placeholder on the team. It was all driven by sentimentality and a poor evaluation of our talent/timelines.
RE: RE: So what, are you paying? Give the man his money Â
Its only Mara's pocketbook so I don't give a dam. Hell give Eli a raise
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
Without trying to have a redo of yesterday, my only point in this matter is that I feel that our only role is as consumers of the product. We either like the end quality and purchase or we don't and don't. The cost of the widgets isn't something we can, or, have a right, to control.
In the real world you don't usually move on from someone until you have their replacement secured. In March the Giants had to weigh the uncertainty of not getting their man at the draft because they were drafting #6. People who have been saying "dump Eli" for the past 2 years are living under a delusion that anyone in the NFL would have done so with Geno Smith, Davis Webb, or Kyle Lauletta as the alternatives.
This is outright bullshit. Who was Collins' replacement when the Giants let him walk? Sometimes that's the nature of the game - you open a roster spot without having a replacement. Would they have just not been allowed to acquire another QB at all? At least hindsight includes some sight at all.
As for the alternatives, could any of them have done worse than 0-2? If Gettleman and Shurmur were better at assessing the talent level on the team, and knowing that the huge dead money sum that they were carrying would largely require them to remain relatively talent-starved for this season, they could have foreseen this scenario. If they did foresee it and chose to stick with Eli out of what amounts simply to inertia, that's shitty cap management. If they didn't see it coming, that's shitty talent evaluation.
There's no way to spin the decision to keep Eli as one that a smart front office would make, even if it would have required a bit more Belichick and a bit less Mara in order to be impersonal enough to have the balls to actually do it.
RE: RE: RE: So what, are you paying? Give the man his money Â
Its only Mara's pocketbook so I don't give a dam. Hell give Eli a raise
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
Without trying to have a redo of yesterday, my only point in this matter is that I feel that our only role is as consumers of the product. We either like the end quality and purchase or we don't and don't. The cost of the widgets isn't something we can, or, have a right, to control.
I respect your view on that, though I disagree with it. Different things appeal to different people, of course, and for me, I enjoy following the moves that a front office makes that create a competitive edge. I accept that not everyone feels that way or enjoys that angle the way that I do.
But too many people take an absolutely ignorant stance on it, IMO. You don't have to be the type who likes to dig into the strategic decisions of the front office or the nuances of the salary cap to acknowledge that they exist, and that some teams are better at them than others. Or that most teams are better at them than the Giants.
and delete this thread
Link - ( New Window )
Jones exceeded all expectations in pre-season. They had no way to know that.
With Eli, I also think they wanted to honor the contract out of respect. Mara is still smarting from the humiliation of the last Eli benching. It was probably a $23 million dollar mistake in how that was handled.
I guess you could argue they could have cut Eli before 3/18, but at that point they probably hadn't finished their QB evaluations for the draft. Daniel Jones' pro day wasn't till after that date as well as the private workout. Cutting Eli before 3/18 would have been very risky, especially since they weren't guaranteed whoever they wanted at pick 6.
It's a rare occurrence.
Stupid Giants should have known DJ would be the best QB in the draft and available at 6. Dopes.
Please accept this $23 million as a Parting Gift.
Just ignore that fact so that you can go on criticizing them for bringing Eli back and "wasting" money that's not yours.
Trade for Case Keenum: lose 6th round pick, pay him $3.5M
Draft Jones.
Don't sign Tate or Bethea, save ~$13M.
Money wasted means less money for good players - either this year or in future years.
There will come a time in the next couple of years where a move makes sense for us but we can’t make it bc of the cap. Stupid posters with the “it’s not your money” spiel should be reminded of these discussions then.
Lot’s of stupid on BBI the past couple of years. Mostly in the irrational defense of a done QB and a GM who doesn’t have the track record to back up his arrogance and mouth.
Money wasted means less money for good players - either this year or in future years.
There will come a time in the next couple of years where a move makes sense for us but we can’t make it bc of the cap. Stupid posters with the “it’s not your money” spiel should be reminded of these discussions then.
Lot’s of stupid on BBI the past couple of years. Mostly in the irrational defense of a done QB and a GM who doesn’t have the track record to back up his arrogance and mouth.
And some people need to understand what fluidity means and that things change constantly in the NFL - which is why judging decisions made in hindsight is stupid.
But does it really make sense to spend $23M on insurance when this DOA team only needed Final Expense Insurance?
Trade for Case Keenum: lose 6th round pick, pay him $3.5M
Draft Jones.
Don't sign Tate or Bethea, save ~$13M.
Can you do stocks too?
BBI daytime has a lot of blowhards and when they don’t like what you are saying, they do things like call you a troll and say your thread is a waste of tome. This is what low IQ individuals do
The truth is, the handling of Eli points to a lack of direction at the top
BBI daytime has a lot of blowhards and when they don’t like what you are saying, they do things like call you a troll and say your thread is a waste of tome. This is what low IQ individuals do
The truth is, the handling of Eli points to a lack of direction at the top
Well said.
the owners have literally changed coach GM just about every player on defense and offense
yet we still are a disaster
the one thing that has not changed is QB
Quote:
Cut Eli: save $17M.
Trade for Case Keenum: lose 6th round pick, pay him $3.5M
Draft Jones.
Don't sign Tate or Bethea, save ~$13M.
Can you do stocks too?
Sure, get a time machine and go back and buy Apple and Google.
Obviously if Giants knew Jones would be starting week three and knew how poorly Zpeppers would play in Betch’s system, they would never make the trade
I continue to be stunned at the poor management of this team - although judging by the responses of some on here, it seems management is very comfortable in their seats knowing they have a contingent of supporters who will cheerlead and defend their every move.
Probably mostly true. But I think getting OBJ out of Eli's hair carried some weight.
OBJ did say in a roundabout a few years ago that Eli was just not able to deliver the ball anymore. Eli was slipping. And to OBJ's credit, he was right. But I don't think Jints Central liked hearing that...and that played a small part...
I continue to be stunned at the poor management of this team - although judging by the responses of some on here, it seems management is very comfortable in their seats knowing they have a contingent of supporters who will cheerlead and defend their every move.
The "in hindsight bullshit" is that those who were saying it in real time had the convenience of saying "draft a QB" without knowing who was available and who they actually liked. In the real world you don't usually move on from someone until you have their replacement secured. In March the Giants had to weigh the uncertainty of not getting their man at the draft because they were drafting #6. People who have been saying "dump Eli" for the past 2 years are living under a delusion that anyone in the NFL would have done so with Geno Smith, Davis Webb, or Kyle Lauletta as the alternatives.
Geezer.
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
The "in hindsight bullshit" is that those who were saying it in real time had the convenience of saying "draft a QB" without knowing who was available and who they actually liked. In the real world you don't usually move on from someone until you have their replacement secured. In March the Giants had to weigh the uncertainty of not getting their man at the draft because they were drafting #6. People who have been saying "dump Eli" for the past 2 years are living under a delusion that anyone in the NFL would have done so with Geno Smith, Davis Webb, or Kyle Lauletta as the alternatives.
Well said Eric. It's foolish to assume that the Giants not only were set on Jones nearly two months before the draft but that he was going to definitely be there at 6. What if the Giants had cut Jones and had Lauletta and Tanney on the depth chart. It was known that Jones was the QB they liked most. Had they released Eli then a team like Denver, Washington, Cincy, etc may have traded up in front of them to get Jones. Then what? The Giants are left with Tanney or Lauletta as their starter?
No, they're not. But neither are the Giants recently.
Quote:
Its only Mara's pocketbook so I don't give a dam. Hell give Eli a raise
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
The Giants have the most dead cap room in the NFL. Had they released Eli they would have created 11.5 million in cap room but would also add 11 million more in dead money.
They are positioning themselves for 2020. This offseason they will have another draft plus plenty of cap room to address a few holes.
Quote:
Many of us were saying these exact same things in real time as they happened.
I continue to be stunned at the poor management of this team - although judging by the responses of some on here, it seems management is very comfortable in their seats knowing they have a contingent of supporters who will cheerlead and defend their every move.
The "in hindsight bullshit" is that those who were saying it in real time had the convenience of saying "draft a QB" without knowing who was available and who they actually liked. In the real world you don't usually move on from someone until you have their replacement secured. In March the Giants had to weigh the uncertainty of not getting their man at the draft because they were drafting #6. People who have been saying "dump Eli" for the past 2 years are living under a delusion that anyone in the NFL would have done so with Geno Smith, Davis Webb, or Kyle Lauletta as the alternatives.
Disagree.
When you understand that you are at the beginning of a rebuild, your placeholder QB becomes a minor matter. There were several cheap placeholder options available. Many of us wanted to go with one of them. Doesn’t matter if we got our guy with the 2 pick or 6 pick - there was no reason to keep a $20+ Million placeholder on the team. It was all driven by sentimentality and a poor evaluation of our talent/timelines.
Quote:
Its only Mara's pocketbook so I don't give a dam. Hell give Eli a raise
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
Without trying to have a redo of yesterday, my only point in this matter is that I feel that our only role is as consumers of the product. We either like the end quality and purchase or we don't and don't. The cost of the widgets isn't something we can, or, have a right, to control.
This is outright bullshit. Who was Collins' replacement when the Giants let him walk? Sometimes that's the nature of the game - you open a roster spot without having a replacement. Would they have just not been allowed to acquire another QB at all? At least hindsight includes some sight at all.
As for the alternatives, could any of them have done worse than 0-2? If Gettleman and Shurmur were better at assessing the talent level on the team, and knowing that the huge dead money sum that they were carrying would largely require them to remain relatively talent-starved for this season, they could have foreseen this scenario. If they did foresee it and chose to stick with Eli out of what amounts simply to inertia, that's shitty cap management. If they didn't see it coming, that's shitty talent evaluation.
There's no way to spin the decision to keep Eli as one that a smart front office would make, even if it would have required a bit more Belichick and a bit less Mara in order to be impersonal enough to have the balls to actually do it.
Quote:
In comment 14585770 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Its only Mara's pocketbook so I don't give a dam. Hell give Eli a raise
Are you seriously that dense? Have you never heard of the salary cap? It matters. Good teams manage it well. Bad teams, like the Giants, do not.
I couldn't care less about Mara's bank account, but I do want the Giants to field the best roster possible, and managing the cap well is an enormous part of that.
Without trying to have a redo of yesterday, my only point in this matter is that I feel that our only role is as consumers of the product. We either like the end quality and purchase or we don't and don't. The cost of the widgets isn't something we can, or, have a right, to control.
I respect your view on that, though I disagree with it. Different things appeal to different people, of course, and for me, I enjoy following the moves that a front office makes that create a competitive edge. I accept that not everyone feels that way or enjoys that angle the way that I do.
But too many people take an absolutely ignorant stance on it, IMO. You don't have to be the type who likes to dig into the strategic decisions of the front office or the nuances of the salary cap to acknowledge that they exist, and that some teams are better at them than others. Or that most teams are better at them than the Giants.