1 point that I don't see discussed re: bringing back Eli

.

they were convinced they were going QB at #6? They had to wait until the Duke Pro Day, which is really just a glorified throwing session?

he fell in love with DJ at the Senior Bowl during a practice in January.

bonus because it would telegraph what we were doing in the draft. We definitely could have released him after though to avoid this sideshow.

Odell Beckham on March 12th. Right then and there should have told you they were rebuilding. The right way. They were going QB the whole entire time.

Maras sentimental side got the best of him. His desire to give Eli a graceful exit did nothing but tarnish his W/L record, giving the medio ammo against his HOF case, and turn half the fan base against him.

In comment 14585757 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

bonus because it would telegraph what we were doing in the draft. We definitely could have released him after though to avoid this sideshow.

come on man. You think people were jumping up to 5 for Jones?

We would have had some vet QB on the roster by draft time.
The draft would have played out the same way.

In comment 14585757 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

bonus because it would telegraph what we were doing in the draft. We definitely could have released him after though to avoid this sideshow.

Yes, couldn't release Eli because it would have telegraphed we were going Daniel Jones at #6. Lmao. The excuses for this shitshow are laughable.

1) Don't telegraph draft plan
2) They can't rely on a rookie to be ready
3) Hope they could be competitive in 2019
4) Release is more disrespectful if Eli can't start elsewhere

.

who really knows? What if some team or teams traded up to get their guy at QB? Or, what if the Giants were blown away with offerings of draft picks in trade and had to move down? Eli was the safe insurance, especially in handling NY..Too many options to consider at that point regardless of team-speak, imo

for some people, it doesn't bother them at the least that they lit $17M of cap space on fire. Others think it was a terrible allocation of a constrained asset.

You can say 20/20 hindsight, but plenty of posters were calling it out in real time that this team was going to suck by hook or by crook in 2019 and that paying Eli anything for 2019 was a waste.

$17M isn't really a fair number though. They would have likely had to pay for vet insurance. So that number is probably closer to $10M. Maybe even less.

plus a nice, respectful parting gift for Eli for all of his service.

keeping him was a no-brainer on March 18th.

I hear radio personalities, columnists, and pundits say "why did the Giants bring him back then?".

If the defense was half way decent and Eli was 2-0 right now do they really think Daniel Jones would be inserted as the starter this early??

Sometimes you can't overthink it.... We are 0-2, the team is going no where this year, and Daniel Jones is ready and obviously the future. THAT'S why he is going in now. This wasn't planned.

It's nice to read a rational thread for a change.

In comment 14585799 Danny Kanell said:

Quote:

$17M isn't really a fair number though. They would have likely had to pay for vet insurance. So that number is probably closer to $10M. Maybe even less.

what's the takeaway? that $10M isn't worth saving to build the roster when the team is worth a damn?

By the way, playing Tanney/Lauletta or a rookie was absolutely an option if they made an honest assessment of how poor the roster was.

Not to mention, if they had moved on from Eli, they would certainly not have added an overpaid 31 year old like Tate.

So the number is what it is. It's $17M.

that was given? The Giants thought Eli would be a better QB with a decent OL. They kept him because 1. they thought Eli would play better and 2. they wouldn't have to throw a rookie QB to the wolves.

It's not any more complicated than that.

In comment 14585829 Gman11 said:

Quote:

that was given? The Giants thought Eli would be a better QB with a decent OL. They kept him because 1. they thought Eli would play better and 2. they wouldn't have to throw a rookie QB to the wolves. It's not any more complicated than that.

I don't think anyone is rejecting the explanation in the sense that they don't believe it. The point is that they were wrong about the state of the roster at large and made a poor decision.

there is a crowd of folks out there clutching their naked rage and lusting for blood

anything shiny will do

In comment 14585826 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

In comment 14585799 Danny Kanell said: Quote: $17M isn't really a fair number though. They would have likely had to pay for vet insurance. So that number is probably closer to $10M. Maybe even less. what's the takeaway? that $10M isn't worth saving to build the roster when the team is worth a damn? By the way, playing Tanney/Lauletta or a rookie was absolutely an option if they made an honest assessment of how poor the roster was. Not to mention, if they had moved on from Eli, they would certainly not have added an overpaid 31 year old like Tate. So the number is what it is. It's $17M.

If you do this, you're the Miami Dolphins. Is that fair to the current players and head coach?

In comment 14585847 gidiefor said:

Quote:

there is a crowd of folks out there clutching their naked rage and lusting for blood anything shiny will do

Murderer!

In comment 14585847 gidiefor said:

Quote:

there is a crowd of folks out there clutching their naked rage and lusting for blood anything shiny will do

such utter nonsense.

The point folks are trying to make is that it was one more decision symptomatic of the awful management of the organization for the better part of the last decade.

People said it was a shitty decision, and now that hindsight shows it was a shitty decision, we still have folks bending over backward to try to say it wasn't a shitty decision.

To see the plan now. I don't think Getts should have spun so many bs tales. He knew Eli was cooked, he knew he was pulling him if his record dipped to .500. He wasn't expecting it by week 2 but here we are.

In comment 14585849 Danny Kanell said:

Quote:

In comment 14585826 bigbluehoya said: Quote: In comment 14585799 Danny Kanell said: Quote: $17M isn't really a fair number though. They would have likely had to pay for vet insurance. So that number is probably closer to $10M. Maybe even less. what's the takeaway? that $10M isn't worth saving to build the roster when the team is worth a damn? By the way, playing Tanney/Lauletta or a rookie was absolutely an option if they made an honest assessment of how poor the roster was. Not to mention, if they had moved on from Eli, they would certainly not have added an overpaid 31 year old like Tate. So the number is what it is. It's $17M. If you do this, you're the Miami Dolphins. Is that fair to the current players and head coach?

If you don't have Eli Manning and Golden Tate you're the Miami Dolphins? Come on dude.

If they had accurately assessed the state of the team, they'd know they were going nowhere. They'd know they weren't an Eli Manning short of a playoff appearance, whether or not they drafted a new QB.

They also knew that they had it in their plans to draft a QB, and that it would become a media circus if and when the team started to underperform with Eli at the helm.

They would have been better off having last year be Eli's farewell, going out and paying $7-10M on a mediocre vet QB to hold the reigns for a year or two until they managed to draft and get a QB ramped up.

That's of course if these guys knew it was such a serious rebuild, since everyone seems to be of the belief that they knew it would be 3-5 years until they were competitive again.

the big factor here is, if you are drafting a QB at 6, would you want him to have both Barkley and OBJ as targets regardless of who you draft?

I was not a fan of all the drama with Odell but shit, if you cut Eli you save 17 Million dollars that you could spend on a pass rusher, a real free safety like Earl Thomas....and then draft your QB and keep your 2nd round pick and maybe even re-sign Collins.

In comment 14585864 Joey in VA said:

Quote:

To see the plan now. I don't think Getts should have spun so many bs tales. He knew Eli was cooked, he knew he was pulling him if his record dipped to .500. He wasn't expecting it by week 2 but here we are.

I have a hard time believing gettleman thought Eli is cooked.

two reasonable scenarios in my mind
1) he believes what he says and thinks Eli can still play (which brings into question his evaluation skills)

2) He is doing Mara's bidding

I think its a combo of the two

The 5 million was basically a buyout. Once Jones was drafted Eli should have been released.

Saying we are building the right way, I hope you are right, but I would not count on that, the signs have been mixed at best.

They could have easily resolved to enter the season with Lauletta + a rookie. It didn't have to be Jones. Stidham, Finley, Stick, Thorson...all viable options later in the draft. Shit Minshew was a 6th rounder and he's playing well enough in his first two games.

Wasting $17M is bad enough, but what about wasting a summer's worth of starter's reps? And what about the unnecessary final embarrassment for Eli?

There were so many other, smarter ways this could have been done.

In comment 14585985 Go Terps said:

Quote:

They could have easily resolved to enter the season with Lauletta + a rookie. It didn't have to be Jones. Stidham, Finley, Stick, Thorson...all viable options later in the draft. Shit Minshew was a 6th rounder and he's playing well enough in his first two games. Wasting $17M is bad enough, but what about wasting a summer's worth of starter's reps? And what about the unnecessary final embarrassment for Eli? There were so many other, smarter ways this could have been done.

The fact that they released Lauletta tells you what they thought about him (and probably had that in their head before the draft).

That of course just points to another rapidly wasted 4th round pick (joining the overpay for Alec Ogletree).

I agree with you that they could have gone with a lesser known, established QB - but playing devil's advocate, they could have signed someone with some playing track record and not have paid them $17M.

In comment 14585754 bw in dc said:

Quote:

he fell in love with DJ at the Senior Bowl during a practice in January.

. I recall that it was mentioned how the Giants staff spent a lot of time watching ELI during that session. More than any other QB performing. So this could be spot on.

the angry fans screaming for Jones with any more losses. We will see how DJ does with a better cast than ELI has had the first two games. No WRs and a terrible defense. But he put up two 400 yard games anyway. ELI may be the best QB the Giants ever had or ever will have. Rooting for Jones to deliver on all the promise he showed so far. We will see.

a vet starter, Case Keenum was acquired for peanuts (the Redskins swapped a 6th for him and a 7th) and his cap number is $3.5M. He also has some past success working with Shurmur.

They do release Eli and get a cheap vet starter. People would be outraged about cutting Eli just like when Simms was cut. They would still be 0 - 2 and people would still be pissed off. No guarantee you get the QB you want in the draft when everyone knows you want a QB at that point. I believe it was a damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If you’re not winning, every decision is shit. Not worth the energy to keep spouting it over and over.

In comment 14586052 darren in pdx said:

Quote:

They do release Eli and get a cheap vet starter. People would be outraged about cutting Eli just like when Simms was cut. They would still be 0 - 2 and people would still be pissed off. No guarantee you get the QB you want in the draft when everyone knows you want a QB at that point. I believe it was a damned if you do and damned if you don’t. If you’re not winning, every decision is shit. Not worth the energy to keep spouting it over and over.

You bring up a good point and some on hear are going to say how can you know we'd still be 0-2. And NO WAY we weren't getting Jones and Management knew it. Unfortunately its something that will have to be repeated. over and over and over.

In comment 14585941 jcn56 said:

Quote:

If they had accurately assessed the state of the team, they'd know they were going nowhere.

Thats the thing. We and they are able to make the more accurate assessment now. Its about when and how the assessments are made. If Baker had been a shut down CB like in college, if Lawrence was able to pressure the QB more, If Carter had stepped up and played the way they were expecting even over the summer and so on and so forth. Maybe it isn't just the players or the GM. Maybe the coaches do need to take some responsibility. Shurmur was with the Browns for 2 years and improved by exactly 1 win. His record here as well as the play of the team is just....uninspiring. His big accomplishment from last year was that he didn't lose the team.
IF you cut Eli and have all that cap room who were we signing on defense? Is Keenum really going to be the guy? I guess one of the good things about cutting Eli then would be us fans wouldn't have to deal with a shitty season and a shitty way to manage a team all at once. they could have spread the agony over the course of the year....

In comment 14585754 bw in dc said:

Quote:

he fell in love with DJ at the Senior Bowl during a practice in January.

Isn’t that the story with Dallas and dak? Granted they were the coaches for that team but pretty similar

So just to get this straight: Manning being on the roster was a signal to the world the Giants would pick a QB, but Manning being 38 and the team sucking mightily for 2 years wasn't?

I mean I guess the world at large could have guessed the Giants would do something wildly stupid based on recent events.

in January, but didn't plan on starting him right away. They had an incumbent on the roster who, despite his deficiencies, knew the offense and could execute it. Bringing in a vet would mean teaching him the offense, unless that vet was Case Keenum. Bringing Eli back made sense.

well thought of in NFL circles. The Bengals and Broncos could have easily jumped the Giants if they were certain that was what the Giants were going to do and had time to think about it. 5 million is well worth it to make sure that doesn't happen.

In comment 14586399 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

well thought of in NFL circles. The Bengals and Broncos could have easily jumped the Giants if they were certain that was what the Giants were going to do and had time to think about it. 5 million is well worth it to make sure that doesn't happen.

Come on man. Jones at 6 was out there well before the draft.

Having Eli in the roster didn’t fool anyone

A vet doesn't cost 5-10m. McCown was signed for 2m and Keenum is under contract for 3.5m. In a vacuum, there isn't any logic that can justify overpaying 13-15m in cap costs for a 2 game stopgap at QB. There are other factors at play though, so from certain perspectives I get it. However, this angle aint it.

In comment 14585799 Danny Kanell said:

Quote:

$17M isn't really a fair number though. They would have likely had to pay for vet insurance. So that number is probably closer to $10M. Maybe even less.

They could have gotten to 0-2 with Tanney. Would they have spent on a different QB? Of course. But if we're talking about a truly honest assessment of this roster's talent level and the amount of dead money they were already eating this year, they would have been justified to spend as little as possible on the placeholder QB, especially if that QB was only going to end up playing two games.

I realize this absolutely does include some hindsight (especially the only play two games part), but the choice to keep Eli cannot be described as fiscally sound as it relates to the salary cap. There are a handful of justifiable reasons for why they kept him, but none of them are consistent with taking a completely impersonal approach to the salary cap. There was always an element of loyalty to Eli baked into their decision and, quite likely, yet another season where they misjudged the roster's talent level in the aggregate.

In comment 14586027 TMS said:

Quote:

the angry fans screaming for Jones with any more losses. We will see how DJ does with a better cast than ELI has had the first two games. No WRs and a terrible defense. But he put up two 400 yard games anyway. ELI may be the best QB the Giants ever had or ever will have. Rooting for Jones to deliver on all the promise he showed so far. We will see.

How long until Jones gets the caps lock treatment?

They did everything right. Eli deserved a chance to try to win with a serviceable OL. 0-2 was a legit spot to make the change. The 23 million people are complaining about, I can't. He DESERVED it and the chance. I am going to miss him. I having a really hard time today. I thought it was time but man...He was SO good, for SO long. By good, I am talking about every possible way you can judge a man as a person, father, husband, teammate, employee and professional athlete. Just the tops. I want to punch and break something.

In comment 14586230 Dinger said:

Quote:

In comment 14585941 jcn56 said: Quote: If they had accurately assessed the state of the team, they'd know they were going nowhere. Thats the thing. We and they are able to make the more accurate assessment now. Its about when and how the assessments are made. If Baker had been a shut down CB like in college, if Lawrence was able to pressure the QB more, If Carter had stepped up and played the way they were expecting even over the summer and so on and so forth. Maybe it isn't just the players or the GM. Maybe the coaches do need to take some responsibility. Shurmur was with the Browns for 2 years and improved by exactly 1 win. His record here as well as the play of the team is just....uninspiring. His big accomplishment from last year was that he didn't lose the team. IF you cut Eli and have all that cap room who were we signing on defense? Is Keenum really going to be the guy? I guess one of the good things about cutting Eli then would be us fans wouldn't have to deal with a shitty season and a shitty way to manage a team all at once. they could have spread the agony over the course of the year....

Whenever someone tries to make that abrupt left turn in defense of Gettleman I like to remind them - he picked these coaches.

Besides - if there were so many *ifs* involved, then they should have expected a shit season. Otherwise, they weren't assessing anything, they were waiting for a heaping serving of good luck.

Great thread by the OP. This simple collection of facts is completely lost or ignored by the media.

In comment 14585768 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14585757 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: bonus because it would telegraph what we were doing in the draft. We definitely could have released him after though to avoid this sideshow. Yes, couldn't release Eli because it would have telegraphed we were going Daniel Jones at #6. Lmao. The excuses for this shitshow are laughable.

You and many others refuse to acknowledge that cutting Eli this season does very little good. It’s just weird. So many act like cutting Eli even last year would have made everything so much better. How? They’d still suck right now but OMG more cap space!!!! We’d also have another high priced vet qb in here.

has a ton of holes or anything.

In comment 14586402 ron mexico said:

Quote:

In comment 14586399 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: well thought of in NFL circles. The Bengals and Broncos could have easily jumped the Giants if they were certain that was what the Giants were going to do and had time to think about it. 5 million is well worth it to make sure that doesn't happen. Come on man. Jones at 6 was out there well before the draft. Having Eli in the roster didn’t fool anyone

Jones to the Giants didn't really pick up steam until a day or two before the draft. And even then it seemed like people were shocked when they took him. Haskins seemed floored, and others surprised they didn't take Allen. Lets not act like everyone thought it was some foregone conclusion that DJ was definetly going to the Giants like in years past. Like DG or not you have to tip your cap to him hiding his intentions on his franchise QB.

It didn’t fool anyone? Bullshit, half of bbi went fucking ape shit and full shock when jones was drafted. And now everyone Is giddy he’s a giant. What if someone traded up for him because the giants “tipped their hand again” as so many here believe they do far too often? Then what? You’d go nuts then too.

The team is rebuilding and jones is starting. Be happy for one day.