He had 17 rushing TD and 1300 rushing yards at Duke. Is he going to be a "running QB" no, absolutely not. But can he run if need be in a smart way? Yes, absolutely.
Because he'll be a bit confused by the defenses being thrown at him. There'll be times when just running it will make a lot of sense when compared to what he is seeing from the D, which he can't make sense of.
I'm confused. Are you saying 20 rushing yards for a non running QB is bad? That's decent, probably a couple 1st down pick ups each game. Only a few QBs actually do that these days in the NFL.
RE: RE: RE: Somehow a myth has developed on BBI... Â
that Daniel Jones is some kind of running QB. He had one huge rushing game in college, but other than that hardly ever ran with the ball.
You might want to go back through his college career.
141 rushes in 12 games as a Freshman
161 in 13 games as a Sophomore
104 in 11 games as a Junior.
1323 rushing yards in 36 starts.
He's not Lamar Jackson, but the idea that he ran in one game and never ran otherwise is, well... not true.
Go back and look at his game logs. Ran for less than 20 yards in like half his games senior year.
Oh cmon. Don't start moving the goalposts now. You said he "hardly ever ran" - which isn't true.
There were 5 different occasions in his senior year alone where he had more than 10 rush attempts. Those weren't all sacks.
He's not a run first QB, but even his senior year there are several games where he ran for 30 and 40+ yards. And yes, the game against UNC where he ran for 186 yards on 15 carries was that season.
Like I said. He can and does run. This isn't going to be Baltimore's offense and I don't think the Giants are going to want him running all over the place; but his legs are part of his skillset and his appeal and the offense we run will likely utilize that to at least some degree.
Someone asking if he'll run for 20-30 yards is completely reasonable and I'd actually bet he winds up with more than 20 rush yards.
I'm confused. Are you saying 20 rushing yards for a non running QB is bad? That's decent, probably a couple 1st down pick ups each game. Only a few QBs actually do that these days in the NFL.
Actually I went back and looked again, in 5 of his 10 games in 2018 he had less than 10 yards rushing. And one game with more than 43 yards rushing.
He can run a bit if given an opening, but he's not a running QB.
Sits in the pocket and goes through his progressions, but if the play breaks down and everyone is covered, he can tuck it away and run for the first down when opportunity arises.
I do not expect the Giants to run designed running plays for him except in highly unusual circumstances, like a QB sneak or the like.
Sits in the pocket and goes through his progressions, but if the play breaks down and everyone is covered, he can tuck it away and run for the first down when opportunity arises.
I do not expect the Giants to run designed running plays for him except in highly unusual circumstances, like a QB sneak or the like.
that Daniel Jones is some kind of running QB. He had one huge rushing game in college, but other than that hardly ever ran with the ball.
He has good speed, so he can run if he's got open field, but yeah the notion of him as a Lamar Jackson type is kind of hilarious.
There's a wide canyon between Eli and Jackson and it's not like the OP set a high bar... 20 yards is 1/3 of Jackson's 2019 per game avg and 25% of his 2018 per game avg (when he was the starter). Aaron Rodgers has averaged >20 rushing ypg 3x (2010, 2015-16) in his career and 18+ five times. Mahomes averaged 17 ypg last season and topped 20 yds in 6 games, including the opener.
RE: You guys who want to see DJ run with the ball Â
Will you still be saying that when he's become Carson Wentz or any of the many injured running QBs we've seen in recent years.
There's always a middle ground. Wentz plays really recklessly... Luck did too when he started off. RG3, same deal.
I don't think anyone wants to see Jones play like that.
The idea is that he can probably extend plays in ways that Eli was no longer capable of at this stage. For quite some time now, if a blitz gets through, Eli just goes down. He knows the play is over there.
Jones will probably be able to evade some free rushers and find space and buy himself time or find a running lane.
Designed runs aren't what I'd be calling - but I think we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by totally taking his legs out of the equation. His athleticism is a strength and a part of his game.
Doesn't have to mean he's a scrambler.
RE: RE: RE: Somehow a myth has developed on BBI... Â
It's right around what he averaged in his senior year other than one huge game.
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
RE: RE: You guys who want to see DJ run with the ball Â
Will you still be saying that when he's become Carson Wentz or any of the many injured running QBs we've seen in recent years.
There's always a middle ground. Wentz plays really recklessly... Luck did too when he started off. RG3, same deal.
I don't think anyone wants to see Jones play like that.
The idea is that he can probably extend plays in ways that Eli was no longer capable of at this stage. For quite some time now, if a blitz gets through, Eli just goes down. He knows the play is over there.
Jones will probably be able to evade some free rushers and find space and buy himself time or find a running lane.
Designed runs aren't what I'd be calling - but I think we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by totally taking his legs out of the equation. His athleticism is a strength and a part of his game.
Doesn't have to mean he's a scrambler.
The OP was about him running to gain yardage. Sure he's more mobile and can extend plays and that's what he should be doing. However, the OP and many others see him as a guy who can run for 1st downs, TDs, etc. He'll be another Wentz if he does that regularly.
RE: I think 20 yards is a reasonable under/over for the game.. Â
It's right around what he averaged in his senior year other than one huge game.
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
He doesn't have to be Wilson to add another dimension to the offense. Eli runs like he's stuck in mud and as we've seen this year, isn't even a threat on a well designed bootleg. Jones is far from Jackson or even Wilson, but he's got comparable speed to Prescott and with Barkley in the backfield, you could see some run options like the link below. Even just picking up 6-8 yards on a bootleg (and getting OOB) could loosen the D up a little and give Barkley just a little bit extra space in a seam. Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: You guys who want to see DJ run with the ball Â
The OP was about him running to gain yardage. Sure he's more mobile and can extend plays and that's what he should be doing. However, the OP and many others see him as a guy who can run for 1st downs, TDs, etc. He'll be another Wentz if he does that regularly.
"Run for 1st downs". Sure, on a 3rd and 6 when the D is in man, Jones has the ability to pull it down and pick up the first (and hopefully slide). With Eli running, the D could close from 30 yards away...
RE: I think 20 yards is a reasonable under/over for the game.. Â
It's right around what he averaged in his senior year other than one huge game.
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
I haven't seen anyone talk about Jones like he's Russell Wilson. As for Aaron Rodgers, Jones runs about the same 40 time and rushed for more yards in college behind a trash OL than Rodgers did. Will he have Rodgers play improvisation ability? Probably not, but who does. As for scrambling ability, he's likely on par with him.
it is not about having jones run the ball like cam newton or jackson...
It is about being able to move the po ket and put pressure on a defense, if you roll jones out the linebacker or db in coverage has to respect his ability to run...
With eli running the bootlegs you do not have to respect the running ability..
Defenses also rush the passer differently..
RE: I think 20 yards is a reasonable under/over for the game.. Â
It's right around what he averaged in his senior year other than one huge game.
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
I think you are misinterpreting why people are excited about his mobility. It’s not that he’ll rush for 30-50 yards a game. It’s that he can extend plays and be a viable threat to gain yards with his legs. That’s all. We aren’t going to start running read options 10-15 times a game, but he is capable of pulling an RPO once in a while and gaining good yardage.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You guys who want to see DJ run with the ball Â
The OP was about him running to gain yardage. Sure he's more mobile and can extend plays and that's what he should be doing. However, the OP and many others see him as a guy who can run for 1st downs, TDs, etc. He'll be another Wentz if he does that regularly.
"Run for 1st downs". Sure, on a 3rd and 6 when the D is in man, Jones has the ability to pull it down and pick up the first (and hopefully slide). With Eli running, the D could close from 30 yards away...
It isn't about Eli it's about what folks expect from Jones. If you want him to even semi-regularly pick up 3rd and 6 for 1st downs he's going to to get hit and sooner or later get hurt. The list of QBs this is true of is quite extensive and the list of QBs who get away with it quite short.
All I see happening is a Carson Wentz situation where his ACL/MCL is blown out.
My preference. Run when you have to but other than that....SLING IT!
Agreed. and the scarier thing to me is Jones is not big. He is tall and lanky. Hes not Newton or Dak or Roethlesberger who are thick and seem like their bodies can take the punishment. Hell even Eli, he of the Dad Bod, looks a little more sturdy.
Jones ran a 4.81 at the combine. He's more mobile than Eli and Â
that Daniel Jones is some kind of running QB. He had one huge rushing game in college, but other than that hardly ever ran with the ball.
That one good rushing game was last year, his redshirt junior year. His first two years at Duke he had over 1000 yards rushing and 14 rushing touchdowns. He did run at Duke, quite a bit actually.
his senior year and he averaged 14.7 rushing yards per game.
AS noted, sacks count against rushing yards in college and they don't in the NFL. So if you were going to count all these games where he had under X number of yards, or over Y number of yards you might want to cross reference the number of times he was sacked in those games as well, maybe even see the yardage lost on those plays. His offensive line was a sieve all 3 years..so that shouldn't necessarily be held against his ability as a runner.
RE: Jones ran a 4.81 at the combine. He's more mobile than Eli and Â
to run but first and foremost he needs to protect the
football and not take on tacklers unless its a dire need
for a first down or TD otherwise take what you can get
then hit the turf they will be looking to knock you
int the middle of next week . I don't think he has the Josh
Allen size to do a lot of running but it can be mixed
in to pickup first downs ect .Rather see him master the
pocket and run out of necessity and stay healthy .
My preference. Run when you have to but other than that....SLING IT!
He has good speed, so he can run if he's got open field, but yeah the notion of him as a Lamar Jackson type is kind of hilarious.
Right, he only averaged 440 yards rushing a year at Duke. But he hardly ever ran...
How about over/ Under on 200 yards passing?
I say over and I will go with a lot over!
You might want to go back through his college career.
141 rushes in 12 games as a Freshman
161 in 13 games as a Sophomore
104 in 11 games as a Junior.
1323 rushing yards in 36 starts.
He's not Lamar Jackson, but the idea that he ran in one game and never ran otherwise is, well... not true.
An average of -1.1 YPC.
Obviously these weren't designed runs.
But if you think Jones is just a pocket passer the same way Eli's been, you probably didn't watch much of his college career.
He absolutely can and does run.
But not in the NFL, do I have that right?
DJ - ( New Window )
But not in the NFL, do I have that right?
Yes. In the NFL, the QB has to have no clear intent to ever pass the ball for a sack to count as a rush attempt.
In college, it doesn't matter. A sack is counted as a rushing attempt and negative yardage. Hence Eli's collegiate numbers...
Goddamn do I love Bryce Perkins.
Quote:
that Daniel Jones is some kind of running QB. He had one huge rushing game in college, but other than that hardly ever ran with the ball.
You might want to go back through his college career.
141 rushes in 12 games as a Freshman
161 in 13 games as a Sophomore
104 in 11 games as a Junior.
1323 rushing yards in 36 starts.
He's not Lamar Jackson, but the idea that he ran in one game and never ran otherwise is, well... not true.
Go back and look at his game logs. Ran for less than 20 yards in like half his games senior year.
Quote:
In comment 14585850 Tesla said:
Quote:
that Daniel Jones is some kind of running QB. He had one huge rushing game in college, but other than that hardly ever ran with the ball.
You might want to go back through his college career.
141 rushes in 12 games as a Freshman
161 in 13 games as a Sophomore
104 in 11 games as a Junior.
1323 rushing yards in 36 starts.
He's not Lamar Jackson, but the idea that he ran in one game and never ran otherwise is, well... not true.
Go back and look at his game logs. Ran for less than 20 yards in like half his games senior year.
Oh cmon. Don't start moving the goalposts now. You said he "hardly ever ran" - which isn't true.
There were 5 different occasions in his senior year alone where he had more than 10 rush attempts. Those weren't all sacks.
He's not a run first QB, but even his senior year there are several games where he ran for 30 and 40+ yards. And yes, the game against UNC where he ran for 186 yards on 15 carries was that season.
Like I said. He can and does run. This isn't going to be Baltimore's offense and I don't think the Giants are going to want him running all over the place; but his legs are part of his skillset and his appeal and the offense we run will likely utilize that to at least some degree.
Someone asking if he'll run for 20-30 yards is completely reasonable and I'd actually bet he winds up with more than 20 rush yards.
Actually I went back and looked again, in 5 of his 10 games in 2018 he had less than 10 yards rushing. And one game with more than 43 yards rushing.
He can run a bit if given an opening, but he's not a running QB.
Just admit you underestimated the amount of times he actually ran in college and let's move on. :)
Just admit you underestimated the amount of times he actually ran in college and let's move on. :)
Arc, do you consider 15 rushing yards a game a lot from you QB?
Quote:
I love how a random bar got set at 43 yards to make a point...
Just admit you underestimated the amount of times he actually ran in college and let's move on. :)
Arc, do you consider 15 rushing yards a game a lot from you QB?
You keep doing all sorts of gymnastics to change the discussion.
You said he hardly ever ran. That is false. That's all.
Nothing was said about how many yards we consider a lot or a little - no one said Jones was Lamar Jackson or Deshaun Watson.
None of that matters. The assertion that he hardly ever ran was incorrect. That's all I responded to.
I do not expect the Giants to run designed running plays for him except in highly unusual circumstances, like a QB sneak or the like.
I do not expect the Giants to run designed running plays for him except in highly unusual circumstances, like a QB sneak or the like.
I tend to agree with this
Quote:
that Daniel Jones is some kind of running QB. He had one huge rushing game in college, but other than that hardly ever ran with the ball.
He has good speed, so he can run if he's got open field, but yeah the notion of him as a Lamar Jackson type is kind of hilarious.
There's a wide canyon between Eli and Jackson and it's not like the OP set a high bar... 20 yards is 1/3 of Jackson's 2019 per game avg and 25% of his 2018 per game avg (when he was the starter). Aaron Rodgers has averaged >20 rushing ypg 3x (2010, 2015-16) in his career and 18+ five times. Mahomes averaged 17 ypg last season and topped 20 yds in 6 games, including the opener.
There's always a middle ground. Wentz plays really recklessly... Luck did too when he started off. RG3, same deal.
I don't think anyone wants to see Jones play like that.
The idea is that he can probably extend plays in ways that Eli was no longer capable of at this stage. For quite some time now, if a blitz gets through, Eli just goes down. He knows the play is over there.
Jones will probably be able to evade some free rushers and find space and buy himself time or find a running lane.
Designed runs aren't what I'd be calling - but I think we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by totally taking his legs out of the equation. His athleticism is a strength and a part of his game.
Doesn't have to mean he's a scrambler.
Quote:
In comment 14585850 Tesla said:
Quote:
that Daniel Jones is some kind of running QB. He had one huge rushing game in college, but other than that hardly ever ran with the ball.
You might want to go back through his college career.
141 rushes in 12 games as a Freshman
161 in 13 games as a Sophomore
104 in 11 games as a Junior.
1323 rushing yards in 36 starts.
He's not Lamar Jackson, but the idea that he ran in one game and never ran otherwise is, well... not true.
Go back and look at his game logs. Ran for less than 20 yards in like half his games senior year.
That means he ran for more than 20 yards in like half his games senior year. Seems like the OP picked a good # for the over/under.
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
Quote:
Will you still be saying that when he's become Carson Wentz or any of the many injured running QBs we've seen in recent years.
There's always a middle ground. Wentz plays really recklessly... Luck did too when he started off. RG3, same deal.
I don't think anyone wants to see Jones play like that.
The idea is that he can probably extend plays in ways that Eli was no longer capable of at this stage. For quite some time now, if a blitz gets through, Eli just goes down. He knows the play is over there.
Jones will probably be able to evade some free rushers and find space and buy himself time or find a running lane.
Designed runs aren't what I'd be calling - but I think we'd be doing ourselves a disservice by totally taking his legs out of the equation. His athleticism is a strength and a part of his game.
Doesn't have to mean he's a scrambler.
The OP was about him running to gain yardage. Sure he's more mobile and can extend plays and that's what he should be doing. However, the OP and many others see him as a guy who can run for 1st downs, TDs, etc. He'll be another Wentz if he does that regularly.
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
He doesn't have to be Wilson to add another dimension to the offense. Eli runs like he's stuck in mud and as we've seen this year, isn't even a threat on a well designed bootleg. Jones is far from Jackson or even Wilson, but he's got comparable speed to Prescott and with Barkley in the backfield, you could see some run options like the link below. Even just picking up 6-8 yards on a bootleg (and getting OOB) could loosen the D up a little and give Barkley just a little bit extra space in a seam.
Link - ( New Window )
The OP was about him running to gain yardage. Sure he's more mobile and can extend plays and that's what he should be doing. However, the OP and many others see him as a guy who can run for 1st downs, TDs, etc. He'll be another Wentz if he does that regularly.
"Run for 1st downs". Sure, on a 3rd and 6 when the D is in man, Jones has the ability to pull it down and pick up the first (and hopefully slide). With Eli running, the D could close from 30 yards away...
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
I haven't seen anyone talk about Jones like he's Russell Wilson. As for Aaron Rodgers, Jones runs about the same 40 time and rushed for more yards in college behind a trash OL than Rodgers did. Will he have Rodgers play improvisation ability? Probably not, but who does. As for scrambling ability, he's likely on par with him.
It is about being able to move the po ket and put pressure on a defense, if you roll jones out the linebacker or db in coverage has to respect his ability to run...
With eli running the bootlegs you do not have to respect the running ability..
Defenses also rush the passer differently..
My only point above was that it seemed to me like a lot of folks here are thinking of Jones as some sort of mobile QB, like a Russell Wilson type. I don't think he has that skillet, and I don't think he has the scrambling ability of an Aaron Rodgers either.
I do think he'll be light years ahead of Eli when it comes to mobility though.
Quote:
The OP was about him running to gain yardage. Sure he's more mobile and can extend plays and that's what he should be doing. However, the OP and many others see him as a guy who can run for 1st downs, TDs, etc. He'll be another Wentz if he does that regularly.
"Run for 1st downs". Sure, on a 3rd and 6 when the D is in man, Jones has the ability to pull it down and pick up the first (and hopefully slide). With Eli running, the D could close from 30 yards away...
It isn't about Eli it's about what folks expect from Jones. If you want him to even semi-regularly pick up 3rd and 6 for 1st downs he's going to to get hit and sooner or later get hurt. The list of QBs this is true of is quite extensive and the list of QBs who get away with it quite short.
My preference. Run when you have to but other than that....SLING IT!
Agreed. and the scarier thing to me is Jones is not big. He is tall and lanky. Hes not Newton or Dak or Roethlesberger who are thick and seem like their bodies can take the punishment. Hell even Eli, he of the Dad Bod, looks a little more sturdy.
That one good rushing game was last year, his redshirt junior year. His first two years at Duke he had over 1000 yards rushing and 14 rushing touchdowns. He did run at Duke, quite a bit actually.
AS noted, sacks count against rushing yards in college and they don't in the NFL. So if you were going to count all these games where he had under X number of yards, or over Y number of yards you might want to cross reference the number of times he was sacked in those games as well, maybe even see the yardage lost on those plays. His offensive line was a sieve all 3 years..so that shouldn't necessarily be held against his ability as a runner.
He ran poorly at the combine. He's definitely more a 4.7 guy. Not a blazer, but he can run.
Sucks when facts supercede hyperbole, ehh buddy?
Quote:
Haskins, but he's not as fast as an nfl linebacker.
He ran poorly at the combine. He's definitely more a 4.7 guy. Not a blazer, but he can run.
You're probably right. I just threw that in because I thought some people were getting carried away.
football and not take on tacklers unless its a dire need
for a first down or TD otherwise take what you can get
then hit the turf they will be looking to knock you
int the middle of next week . I don't think he has the Josh
Allen size to do a lot of running but it can be mixed
in to pickup first downs ect .Rather see him master the
pocket and run out of necessity and stay healthy .
What a game from the rookie! The accuracy in the passing game has continued from preseason. The added element of the run will open things up for him.