seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
My comment came about after listening to him and watching him get skewered by many about his win loss record. Not sure what there’s is to get defensive about.
That changing the narrative conspiracy stuff was speculative trash Â
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
The myth is that the "molded offense (defense)" is just as good as the preferred offense. Just because a coach adapts his scheme to maximize the personnel, doesn't mean that the adapted scheme is optimum.
He can’t come out and say we are growing our youth because it basically means he’s giving up on the season.
He also has to be confident in DJ. So now it looks like he’s scapegoating Eli.
What a fucking turd sandwich Gettleman gave him to eat.
Yeah its not like he can out and out say that. Although I think he does believe that DJ gives him the best chance to win at QB. That is still slim because of the defense, but I think he thinks DJ is better than Eli at this point.
Shurmur stood in there and handle the presser well Â
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Then that sounds as if he lied his way into getting the job and was successful in pulling the con over the head of management.
The question in the interview had to have been (you hope) posed like this:
Management: "Do you think you can run your offense and be able to work with and be successful with Eli as the QB?"
Shurmur: "Yes."
Nothing physically with the QB has changed the last two years. Now suddenly, that isn't the case anymore. His playbook is more open than before? Which means to me it really wasn't the case to start with.
Defensive? I made that comment before you said great coaches Â
mold their players to their scheme. It is always bandied about, but that isn't the reality of the situation. Now if you have a great player you find ways to make him fit in your scheme. Eli is no longer that. If he was still a great pocket passer I'm sure he'd be able to make it work.
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
I think he means they won't have to limit the playbook given that he is a rookie. Maybe it was a reference to plays he couldn't call with Eli, but I doubt it.
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Then that sounds as if he lied his way into getting the job and was successful in pulling the con over the head of management.
The question in the interview had to have been (you hope) posed like this:
Management: "Do you think you can run your offense and be able to work with and be successful with Eli as the QB?"
Shurmur: "Yes."
Nothing physically with the QB has changed the last two years. Now suddenly, that isn't the case anymore. His playbook is more open than before? Which means to me it really wasn't the case to start with.
He most definetly did. He isn't an idiot. Knew the only way you are getting the Giants job is if you accept Eli as the QB. Than after that doesn't work you go look, he doesn't have it anymore we need a QB and get the one you want.
He can’t come out and say we are growing our youth because it basically means he’s giving up on the season.
He also has to be confident in DJ. So now it looks like he’s scapegoating Eli.
What a fucking turd sandwich Gettleman gave him to eat.
You are making it seem like he's only saying things to be PC. What if he actually thinks Jones is better? How is he scapegoating Eli?
I don't really understand this kind of reaction. Its painfully obvious that Shurmur has wanted to move on from Eli well before the 2019 season started. He finally gets his wish and now we will find out if he's going to be our HC or not.
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
Other than the fact that, outside his mobility, Josh Allen is a terrible fir for Shurmur's offense. Shurmur wants the ball out quickly and accurately, while Allen holds the ball too long and has accuracy issues. The lengths some will go to take a shot at Eli is odd, to say the least.
Was him saying that Jones was ready to play week 1, if “we needed him”. The implication being that now he is needed. I think the coaches feel that Jones is the better QB right now...it is not just about QB development.
I also want to add that there are going to be inertial forces that prevent a change like this. If you overcome that, it will look in the rear view mirror that it was an obvious call based on substance alone. I think this was on obvious call. We were losing, Eli is right at 0.500 in terms of wins/losses.
Finally, let’s not forget that many or us wanted Eli benched in favor of Davis Webb (where is he now?) and were upset when Eli was benched for Geno Smith (who is still in the league). So Eli has been pressed by his backups in a substantive way for more than two years. It is well past time for this,
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
I think he means they won't have to limit the playbook given that he is a rookie. Maybe it was a reference to plays he couldn't call with Eli, but I doubt it.
We have tons of data on what PS likes to run offensively. Eli absolutely did limit his playbook.
RE: That changing the narrative conspiracy stuff was speculative trash Â
They want to win in 2019. This isn’t experience for experience sake.
What did you expect him to say..after 2 games we're throwing in the towel?? This gives this coach and GM a stay of execution for this season and next. I hope it works out for both of them because we would have moved in a positive direction as an organization. But time will tell and PS track record isn't the best...hope he makes it
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Then that sounds as if he lied his way into getting the job and was successful in pulling the con over the head of management.
The question in the interview had to have been (you hope) posed like this:
Management: "Do you think you can run your offense and be able to work with and be successful with Eli as the QB?"
Shurmur: "Yes."
Nothing physically with the QB has changed the last two years. Now suddenly, that isn't the case anymore. His playbook is more open than before? Which means to me it really wasn't the case to start with.
Yes. Hopefully, if Shurmur requires a specific skill set in order to be successful, then hopefully Daniel Jones meets them. My point was, before some got all defensive, was shouldn’t a great head coach be able to adapt? This btw is a criticism I see often about Shurmur here and elsewhere.
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
Other than the fact that, outside his mobility, Josh Allen is a terrible fir for Shurmur's offense. Shurmur wants the ball out quickly and accurately, while Allen holds the ball too long and has accuracy issues. The lengths some will go to take a shot at Eli is odd, to say the least.
PS believes he can create accuracy in his QBs schematically. It is why Eli's completion percentage is better than it has been. He does a tremendous job of getting WR's open when he can move the pocket. I don't know why you think that PS liking Allen is a shot at Eli.
RE: RE: That changing the narrative conspiracy stuff was speculative trash Â
They want to win in 2019. This isn’t experience for experience sake.
Quote:
What did you expect him to say..after 2 games we're throwing in the towel?? This gives this coach and GM a stay of execution for this season and next. I hope it works out for both of them because we would have moved in a positive direction as an organization. But time will tell and PS track record isn't the best...hope he makes it
That wouldn’t explain why week 3. Maybe by week 5-8. But not so soon. They want to win now and they believe this is the best path forward.
RE: Defensive? I made that comment before you said great coaches Â
mold their players to their scheme. It is always bandied about, but that isn't the reality of the situation. Now if you have a great player you find ways to make him fit in your scheme. Eli is no longer that. If he was still a great pocket passer I'm sure he'd be able to make it work.
I shouldn’t have called you defensive. I apologize. Baldy touched on this too though, albeit indirectly. Eli dropped back and there was nothing. Maybe a running QB can make something happen but it’s still within Shurmur’s scheme. Even Arians said this casually in his presser. Different QB, but it’s still Shurmur’s offense. I’m just on the fence about Shurmur. More so with each passing week.
I don't think it's too tough to figure out that Shurmur prefers Jones and thinks he's a better fit for what he wants to do offensively.
It probably wasn't his decision to start Eli or even keep him around this year. I'm sure he has immense respect for Eli and his career, etc. But that's not 'his' guy. He and Gettleman obviously identified Jones in the draft as the guy they wanted, and now he's here.
I'm not going to make definitive assumptions about things I'm not privy to, but I don't personally believe that the coach or GM wanted to keep this going with Manning... I think that part had more to do with John Mara. Again, though... I can't prove that, so I can't say it's a fact. It's just the read I've gotten here.
There are probably RPO elements and some other things that Shurmur has in the playbook, but didn't call/felt he couldn't use because of how heavy footed Eli is at this point.
I think that's what he means when he says he's comfortable opening up the whole thing with Daniel under center.
He probably figured he could still make it work well enough with Eli, but I'm sure he stayed away from certain calls and stuck to things he felt were more in Eli's wheelhouse.
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Wow.. Some of you are acting like babies... Jones was drafted to play in Shurmur's offense. Would Joe Flacco be good in this offense? Nope.. Gimme a break. Some of you are insufferable with your denial of Eli's regression. That statement can be true and still not be the main reason the Giants were losing. But, it can be a reason they don't win.
We have tons of data on what PS likes to run offensively. Eli absolutely did limit his playbook.
That may very well be, but I don't think that is what he meant by that statement. I think he was referring to the fact that he will not have to limit the playbook for a rookie QB. He's not going out of his way to trash Eli, unlike some on BBI.
I liked his response to the questions about approval from Â
He comes over as too nonchalant and condescending in pressers for me. Also I see nothing in his game management so far that makes me think he can be a head coach
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Wow.. Some of you are acting like babies... Jones was drafted to play in Shurmur's offense. Would Joe Flacco be good in this offense? Nope.. Gimme a break. Some of you are insufferable with your denial of Eli's regression. That statement can be true and still not be the main reason the Giants were losing. But, it can be a reason they don't win.
It is not that complicated to figure out!
Is it really that hard for some of you to refrain from the over reactive name calling when someone presents their opinion?
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Wow.. Some of you are acting like babies... Jones was drafted to play in Shurmur's offense. Would Joe Flacco be good in this offense? Nope.. Gimme a break. Some of you are insufferable with your denial of Eli's regression. That statement can be true and still not be the main reason the Giants were losing. But, it can be a reason they don't win.
It is not that complicated to figure out!
Is it really that hard for some of you to refrain from the over reactive name calling when someone presents their opinion?
Unfortunately the answer to your question is yes. Its the "you're either with us or against us" mob mentality
I'm not going to make definitive assumptions about things I'm not privy to, but I don't personally believe that the coach or GM wanted to keep this going with Manning... I think that part had more to do with John Mara. Again, though... I can't prove that, so I can't say it's a fact. It's just the read I've gotten here.
I believe this is true as well. In fact I don't think DG/PS necessarily wanted Eli as the QB as far back as the beginning of last season.
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
He's not wrong
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
Indeed...
Quote:
He basically just came out and said we think Daniel gives us a better chance to win.
He's not wrong
Agreed. I can't hear the questions but it almost seems that the reporters didn't expect Shurmur to come out and say that.
the butthurt is so strong. seek help.
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
Opposite of how i felt about Coughlin
Quote:
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
the butthurt is so strong. seek help.
What are you crying about?
He also has to be confident in DJ. So now it looks like he’s scapegoating Eli.
What a fucking turd sandwich Gettleman gave him to eat.
Quote:
from Shurmur...
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
My comment came about after listening to him and watching him get skewered by many about his win loss record. Not sure what there’s is to get defensive about.
Quote:
from Shurmur...
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
The myth is that the "molded offense (defense)" is just as good as the preferred offense. Just because a coach adapts his scheme to maximize the personnel, doesn't mean that the adapted scheme is optimum.
Poorly-veiled Eli sadness? What is veiled about it? I’m pretty open about it. If it’s a shtick to you, that’s your problem, isn’t it?
He also has to be confident in DJ. So now it looks like he’s scapegoating Eli.
What a fucking turd sandwich Gettleman gave him to eat.
Yeah its not like he can out and out say that. Although I think he does believe that DJ gives him the best chance to win at QB. That is still slim because of the defense, but I think he thinks DJ is better than Eli at this point.
I hope he can start to do some things on Sundays, because I think he's actually pretty good as far as demeanor and handling the press are concerned.
Then that sounds as if he lied his way into getting the job and was successful in pulling the con over the head of management.
The question in the interview had to have been (you hope) posed like this:
Management: "Do you think you can run your offense and be able to work with and be successful with Eli as the QB?"
Shurmur: "Yes."
Nothing physically with the QB has changed the last two years. Now suddenly, that isn't the case anymore. His playbook is more open than before? Which means to me it really wasn't the case to start with.
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
I think he means they won't have to limit the playbook given that he is a rookie. Maybe it was a reference to plays he couldn't call with Eli, but I doubt it.
Quote:
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Then that sounds as if he lied his way into getting the job and was successful in pulling the con over the head of management.
The question in the interview had to have been (you hope) posed like this:
Management: "Do you think you can run your offense and be able to work with and be successful with Eli as the QB?"
Shurmur: "Yes."
Nothing physically with the QB has changed the last two years. Now suddenly, that isn't the case anymore. His playbook is more open than before? Which means to me it really wasn't the case to start with.
He most definetly did. He isn't an idiot. Knew the only way you are getting the Giants job is if you accept Eli as the QB. Than after that doesn't work you go look, he doesn't have it anymore we need a QB and get the one you want.
He also has to be confident in DJ. So now it looks like he’s scapegoating Eli.
What a fucking turd sandwich Gettleman gave him to eat.
You are making it seem like he's only saying things to be PC. What if he actually thinks Jones is better? How is he scapegoating Eli?
I don't really understand this kind of reaction. Its painfully obvious that Shurmur has wanted to move on from Eli well before the 2019 season started. He finally gets his wish and now we will find out if he's going to be our HC or not.
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
Other than the fact that, outside his mobility, Josh Allen is a terrible fir for Shurmur's offense. Shurmur wants the ball out quickly and accurately, while Allen holds the ball too long and has accuracy issues. The lengths some will go to take a shot at Eli is odd, to say the least.
I also want to add that there are going to be inertial forces that prevent a change like this. If you overcome that, it will look in the rear view mirror that it was an obvious call based on substance alone. I think this was on obvious call. We were losing, Eli is right at 0.500 in terms of wins/losses.
Finally, let’s not forget that many or us wanted Eli benched in favor of Davis Webb (where is he now?) and were upset when Eli was benched for Geno Smith (who is still in the league). So Eli has been pressed by his backups in a substantive way for more than two years. It is well past time for this,
Quote:
from Shurmur...
"He (DJ) has the ability to run our entire offense..."
I read deeply between the lines there...
I think he means they won't have to limit the playbook given that he is a rookie. Maybe it was a reference to plays he couldn't call with Eli, but I doubt it.
We have tons of data on what PS likes to run offensively. Eli absolutely did limit his playbook.
What did you expect him to say..after 2 games we're throwing in the towel?? This gives this coach and GM a stay of execution for this season and next. I hope it works out for both of them because we would have moved in a positive direction as an organization. But time will tell and PS track record isn't the best...hope he makes it
Quote:
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Then that sounds as if he lied his way into getting the job and was successful in pulling the con over the head of management.
The question in the interview had to have been (you hope) posed like this:
Management: "Do you think you can run your offense and be able to work with and be successful with Eli as the QB?"
Shurmur: "Yes."
Nothing physically with the QB has changed the last two years. Now suddenly, that isn't the case anymore. His playbook is more open than before? Which means to me it really wasn't the case to start with.
Yes. Hopefully, if Shurmur requires a specific skill set in order to be successful, then hopefully Daniel Jones meets them. My point was, before some got all defensive, was shouldn’t a great head coach be able to adapt? This btw is a criticism I see often about Shurmur here and elsewhere.
Quote:
Bingo. There is this myth perpetuated that good coaches mold their schemes to the roster they have. That list is one coach, Billy B. Everyone else has their schemes and needs their players to run it. If I remember correctly after the draft last year, Shurmur alluded to the fact he like Josh Allen. It is so painfully obvious he wants to run bootlegs all day, some RPO, maybe read option with Saquon here and there. Can 't do that with Eli.
Other than the fact that, outside his mobility, Josh Allen is a terrible fir for Shurmur's offense. Shurmur wants the ball out quickly and accurately, while Allen holds the ball too long and has accuracy issues. The lengths some will go to take a shot at Eli is odd, to say the least.
PS believes he can create accuracy in his QBs schematically. It is why Eli's completion percentage is better than it has been. He does a tremendous job of getting WR's open when he can move the pocket. I don't know why you think that PS liking Allen is a shot at Eli.
Quote:
They want to win in 2019. This isn’t experience for experience sake.
What did you expect him to say..after 2 games we're throwing in the towel?? This gives this coach and GM a stay of execution for this season and next. I hope it works out for both of them because we would have moved in a positive direction as an organization. But time will tell and PS track record isn't the best...hope he makes it
That wouldn’t explain why week 3. Maybe by week 5-8. But not so soon. They want to win now and they believe this is the best path forward.
I shouldn’t have called you defensive. I apologize. Baldy touched on this too though, albeit indirectly. Eli dropped back and there was nothing. Maybe a running QB can make something happen but it’s still within Shurmur’s scheme. Even Arians said this casually in his presser. Different QB, but it’s still Shurmur’s offense. I’m just on the fence about Shurmur. More so with each passing week.
It probably wasn't his decision to start Eli or even keep him around this year. I'm sure he has immense respect for Eli and his career, etc. But that's not 'his' guy. He and Gettleman obviously identified Jones in the draft as the guy they wanted, and now he's here.
I'm not going to make definitive assumptions about things I'm not privy to, but I don't personally believe that the coach or GM wanted to keep this going with Manning... I think that part had more to do with John Mara. Again, though... I can't prove that, so I can't say it's a fact. It's just the read I've gotten here.
There are probably RPO elements and some other things that Shurmur has in the playbook, but didn't call/felt he couldn't use because of how heavy footed Eli is at this point.
I think that's what he means when he says he's comfortable opening up the whole thing with Daniel under center.
He probably figured he could still make it work well enough with Eli, but I'm sure he stayed away from certain calls and stuck to things he felt were more in Eli's wheelhouse.
We're going to find out soon enough.
Wow.. Some of you are acting like babies... Jones was drafted to play in Shurmur's offense. Would Joe Flacco be good in this offense? Nope.. Gimme a break. Some of you are insufferable with your denial of Eli's regression. That statement can be true and still not be the main reason the Giants were losing. But, it can be a reason they don't win.
It is not that complicated to figure out!
We have tons of data on what PS likes to run offensively. Eli absolutely did limit his playbook.
That may very well be, but I don't think that is what he meant by that statement. I think he was referring to the fact that he will not have to limit the playbook for a rookie QB. He's not going out of his way to trash Eli, unlike some on BBI.
Quote:
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Wow.. Some of you are acting like babies... Jones was drafted to play in Shurmur's offense. Would Joe Flacco be good in this offense? Nope.. Gimme a break. Some of you are insufferable with your denial of Eli's regression. That statement can be true and still not be the main reason the Giants were losing. But, it can be a reason they don't win.
It is not that complicated to figure out!
Is it really that hard for some of you to refrain from the over reactive name calling when someone presents their opinion?
Quote:
In comment 14586228 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
seems to think Daniel Jones will fit his offense perfectly. Isn’t he supposed to be able to work with what he has? Isn’t that what the great head coaches do?
Wow.. Some of you are acting like babies... Jones was drafted to play in Shurmur's offense. Would Joe Flacco be good in this offense? Nope.. Gimme a break. Some of you are insufferable with your denial of Eli's regression. That statement can be true and still not be the main reason the Giants were losing. But, it can be a reason they don't win.
It is not that complicated to figure out!
Is it really that hard for some of you to refrain from the over reactive name calling when someone presents their opinion?
Unfortunately the answer to your question is yes. Its the "you're either with us or against us" mob mentality
I believe this is true as well. In fact I don't think DG/PS necessarily wanted Eli as the QB as far back as the beginning of last season.