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With the ďpressureĒ seemingly off Shurmur, will he attack as

Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:22 pm
he did with a young Foles, a pre-injury Bridgewater and Keenum, with DJ?

By pressure seemingly off, I am referring to much less concern about his job security if DJ evolves game by game. If we wound up with a losing record with Eli as the starter, chances are Shurmur would have been axed.

I believe that unless DJ truly shits the bed, Shurmur just bought at least another year as HC.

If I am correct, I look for an attacking O similar to the one he forged with Foles and Keenum.

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BB56 I just heard Phil Simms chime in and I posted  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 8:54 pm : link
my thoughts and video to this thread.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I see it completely the other way.  
Motley Two : 9/18/2019 8:56 pm : link
In comment 14586933 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14586929 Motley Two said:


Quote:


14 games. The pressure is on.





With a rookie QB?


It's their(Shurmur & Gettleman) guy and a top pick. Eli is out of the way. I'm not saying they need go out and win 8 games, this roster still needs some serious building, but there needs to be some serious strides made.

Shurmur's feel for the game & play calling at best seems pretty suspect to me.

I don't care if it's true or not, but he needs to get his offense going and have people believing that Eli's limitations were preventing his offense from performing.

I think it's more than fair to expect this offense to be operating in the ballpark of where it was for the last month of last season...by the time it gets to the last month of this season. Rookie QB or not, the rest of the offense is supposed to be better than the 'No OBJ' offense from last season.


RE: Strongly disagree.  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2019 8:57 pm : link
In comment 14586949 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Number 6 pick or not, I believe he buys more time with a rookie.


Heís got plenty of pressure. Thereís absolutely zero chance he thinks heís safe just because a rookie is in there. You think 2-14 would make him feel awesome heading into 2020?

The pressure is on. There arenít anymore excuses and there certainly any guarantees of employment. He needs to prove he can get the job done, plain and simple.
I think Shurmur is a joke.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/18/2019 8:57 pm : link
But this buys him '20. After that, who knows? I don't think he's a head coach who is leading us to a Super Bowl.
Arenít any  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2019 8:57 pm : link
*
I certainly hope we see some changes. I know that DJ  
Blue21 : 9/18/2019 8:59 pm : link
said the offense will be basically the same. But I'm hoping they take advantage of his mobility like other teams do. I thought/hoped that was the reason they got him.
RE: I donít think the pressure is off PS at all  
Eman11 : 9/18/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14586947 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He has 14 games to show he can run an effective offense with a QB he helped select. If DJ does not play well or show significant development as the season goes on, his reputation as an offensive genius / QB whisperer takes a hit.

The pressure on DG and PS just increased significantly.


It feel this way as well. This is their guy and he has to play well or at the very least show he can be a quality starting QB. If not its on them.

Had they kept Eli as the starter longer he could've been Shurmur's fall guy if it wasn't going well and even if DJ got 4-6 starts he would've bought himself next year. Now, he's got 14 games to show he's the coach they brought him here to be.

If he fails, ( less wins than last year or DJ doesn't show improvement as the season goes along) with his guy running his system I could honestly see him getting axed after this season.
RE: I think Shurmur is a joke.  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14586976 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But this buys him '20. After that, who knows? I don't think he's a head coach who is leading us to a Super Bowl.


I used to think that too, but I don't think it does. The defense looks so bad, the offense better perform. I truly believe that PS thinks that this offense will look better under DJ. I think it will too, the offensive line has been very good and we have Saquon Barkley. DJ opens up the playbook a ton and I don't think PS was ever able to adjust to having his playbook cut in half.
Eman....Bingo...if it was about saving his job you wouldn't see DJ  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:01 pm : link
for as long as possible. He truly believes DJ is his best option to win.
My guess is that Bettcher gets the axe at season's end.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/18/2019 9:02 pm : link
Shurmur stays. DJ & Saquon are 'The Guys' heading into 2020. Next year is going to be big.
RE: I donít think the pressure is off PS at all  
bw in dc : 9/18/2019 9:03 pm : link
In comment 14586947 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He has 14 games to show he can run an effective offense with a QB he helped select. If DJ does not play well or show significant development as the season goes on, his reputation as an offensive genius / QB whisperer takes a hit.

The pressure on DG and PS just increased significantly.


I share this view. However it came about, which I am very interested to know the backstory, it appears Shurmur got his way and Jones is now in the saddle to run Shurmur's offense.

So I think there needs to be two outcomes to get Shurmur on some firm ground going forward:

1. Sculpt Jones into a play-making NFL QB. Biggest priority.

2. Create an offense that starts to have an identity and scores points at a greater rate.

I'm assuming the defense is going to be a drag on this team the entire year. So let's at least get the more competent side of the ball going in the right direction. Use the off-season to fix the D with more talent and possibly a new DC.
First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Diver_Down : 9/18/2019 9:04 pm : link
by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.
I don't think the pressure  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/18/2019 9:04 pm : link
is, or should be, on this early in the reclamation project. You weren't going to fix 2017 this quickly.

I think the reality in the building is quite different from what your hearing from fans and media.
RE: First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14586990 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.


Thatís fair
Shurmur needs to show  
fkap : 9/18/2019 9:05 pm : link
he's got the team heading in the right direction. W-L is less important than showing promise.
If they suck, and stay sucking, without showing improvement, he doesn't get a pass. "But they're rookies" isn't an excuse if they suck, the play calling sucks, the preparation sucks, etc.

Improvement and working to establish a core for the future is his mandate now.
RE: First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14586990 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.


Betcher said he is going to use more press man this week, which is interesting considering TB's weapons, but at least fits what our guys do well and we'll see less blown assignments. TB's tight ends are going to kill us though. Everyone talkin about OJ Mayo being a bust, he just hasn't had a chance to play us yet!
Regardless,  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:07 pm : link
I see him using all his O options as a HC, similar to his stint as OC. I sure hope so.
Bettcher said he's going to use more press man this weekend?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/18/2019 9:09 pm : link
Sunday is going to be interesting.
RE: RE: First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Diver_Down : 9/18/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14586997 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14586990 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.



Betcher said he is going to use more press man this week, which is interesting considering TB's weapons, but at least fits what our guys do well and we'll see less blown assignments. TB's tight ends are going to kill us though. Everyone talkin about [insert random player's name] being a bust, he just hasn't had a chance to play us yet!


I fixed your last sentence. We are the team that every opponent circles on the schedule as the Get Right game.
I think in a way you are right  
NoGainDayne : 9/18/2019 9:11 pm : link
it takes the pressure off in the sense that if Jones looks good and the offense scores points I think they could get away with having a bad overall record and PS and DG keeping their jobs.

It also allows him to showcase his best skill. Maybe he's overwhelmed with some of this stuff and just teaching a QB the ropes getting back to something he feels better at will give him more confidence and say call better plays?
RE: I think in a way you are right  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14587005 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
it takes the pressure off in the sense that if Jones looks good and the offense scores points I think they could get away with having a bad overall record and PS and DG keeping their jobs.

It also allows him to showcase his best skill. Maybe he's overwhelmed with some of this stuff and just teaching a QB the ropes getting back to something he feels better at will give him more confidence and say call better plays?


Thatís exactly my sense. And yes, I could be completely off on this re Shurmurís security.
RE: Shurmur a,ready had a 2nd season locked no matter who the QB was  
clatterbuck : 9/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14586939 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
He would have had to be more inept than McAdoo, and lost the locker room before being fired at the end of one season.

I predict the Giants getting 4+ wins this season.

Shurmur wonít lose his job before mid season 2020.


Well, this is Shurmur's second season but I think he'll get at least one more to see what he can do with Jones,
I think Shurmur is far from a lock to return..  
Sean : 9/18/2019 9:18 pm : link
He will be evaluated based on game management, progress, competitiveness, etc.

Shurmurís record is 15-36 right now, if we go 3-13 and then itís 18-49, you canít sell that for 2020.
Nothing would make me happier than seeing an all out aggressive  
MM_in_NYC : 9/18/2019 9:32 pm : link
scheme from our team moving forward. Just push it. Let's go!
Too many fans and commentators are saying that Shurmur  
GeofromNJ : 9/18/2019 9:44 pm : link
made the switch because he wants to save his job. I think he made the switch because he wants to win games and he thinks that DJ offers a better chance to win. Sure, if the Giants win, Shurmur will stay, but he first wants to win and he thinks that with Eli he's leaving victories on the field and this is killing him.
RE: Too many fans and commentators are saying that Shurmur  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14587056 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
made the switch because he wants to save his job. I think he made the switch because he wants to win games and he thinks that DJ offers a better chance to win. Sure, if the Giants win, Shurmur will stay, but he first wants to win and he thinks that with Eli he's leaving victories on the field and this is killing him.


As has been stated many times on here, The D has left Wís on the field more than Eli has.
Either way  
Mike in Boston : 9/18/2019 9:48 pm : link
He should be fired (indeed, he should have been fired last year). If Jones is better for the team than Eli, he should be fired for not starting him in game 1. If not, he should be fired for blowing off this season and starting the 2020 preseason in Sept 2019. How hard do you think anyone is going to play if the team figures it is all about preparing g for next year?
RE: RE: I think Shurmur is a joke.  
HomerJones45 : 9/18/2019 9:50 pm : link
In comment 14586981 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14586976 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


But this buys him '20. After that, who knows? I don't think he's a head coach who is leading us to a Super Bowl.



I used to think that too, but I don't think it does. The defense looks so bad, the offense better perform. I truly believe that PS thinks that this offense will look better under DJ. I think it will too, the offensive line has been very good and we have Saquon Barkley. DJ opens up the playbook a ton and I don't think PS was ever able to adjust to having his playbook cut in half.
i think he's a one trick pony who rode Adam Thelien, Stefan Diggs, Rudolph, McKinnon, Murray and Cook for one year before they got poleaxed by the Eagles. if you are expecting some radical improvement in the offense because this yutz was handed a rookie who maybe can roll out, your expectations are out of whack. .300 winning percentage as a head coach. How the fuck is even a head coach.
We'll we will find out, but you love out the part where he had  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:54 pm : link
patchwork offensive line and Case freaking Keenum at QB.
I too have question about Shurmur, but he coached the damn Browns  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:55 pm : link
and Browns-lite(us). He has the pieces in place for what he wants to do, we'll find our answer soon enough.
.  
Amazinz : 9/18/2019 9:56 pm : link
YeahÖ I hope soÖ But Iím skeptical.

How good is a coach that canít adapt to Eli? What would Belichick do with Eli?

Iím ready. Prove yourself Shurmur. But Giants need to move on this year if Shurmur shits the bed.
RE: I think Shurmur is far from a lock to return..  
japanhead : 9/18/2019 10:06 pm : link
In comment 14587013 Sean said:
Quote:
He will be evaluated based on game management, progress, competitiveness, etc.

Shurmurís record is 15-36 right now, if we go 3-13 and then itís 18-49, you canít sell that for 2020.


i can't find more than 3 wins on the schedule, but i guess things can change.
RE: RE: Too many fans and commentators are saying that Shurmur  
GeofromNJ : 9/18/2019 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14587060 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14587056 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


made the switch because he wants to save his job. I think he made the switch because he wants to win games and he thinks that DJ offers a better chance to win. Sure, if the Giants win, Shurmur will stay, but he first wants to win and he thinks that with Eli he's leaving victories on the field and this is killing him.



As has been stated many times on here, The D has left Wís on the field more than Eli has.

That may or may not be true, but Shurmur can't fix the D with the players that he has. He can, however, fix the offense (in his opinion) by changing quarterbacks.
RE: I see it completely the other way.  
NYGmen58 : 9/18/2019 10:53 pm : link
In comment 14586929 Motley Two said:
Quote:
14 games. The pressure is on.



THIS!
I feel like there are a lot of unrealistic expectations about 2019.  
81_Great_Dane : 9/18/2019 11:15 pm : link
It's a rebuilding team. On defense, you play the kids, they play like kids, and they get their asses whipped. That goes on until the kids stop playing like kids. Lawrence is well on his way. We'll see about Jones. Baker, Love, Ximenes, Hill, Beal, McIntosh, Ballantine... who knows?

I can't imagine that anybody, ANYBODY inside the Giants organization thought any different. Shurmur's not on the hot seat over the poor defense in these two weeks. Why should he be? This was the plan.

The offense, however, is not loaded with kids. They have a nice mix of veterans and youth on the line. Barkley is a 2nd-year guy. Shepard and Engram are veterans now. The offense should be scoring more. So they shifted to to Jones. Now the O has a kid at its key position. This may get Shurmur off the hook for the O for now, but it accelerates the expectations for Jones and a successful season in 2020. The Giants can struggle this year while the kids grow up, but they better start winning in 2020. Anything sooner than that is gravy.

I'm in the more pressure camp... sort of...  
.McL. : 9/19/2019 2:07 am : link
I think PS was always going to get 1 year with DJ. It turns out that year is the next 14 games.

If DJ doesn't show significant progress, and the defense continues to look befuddled, PS is gone. If DJ shows progress and the defense continues as it is, Short of a miraculous tern around, I think Bettcher is already in line to be the scapegoat, but that will only buy S next year, and then only if DJ shows real promise.
81, I agree completely  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/19/2019 2:23 am : link
.
Agree with '81 as well.  
Tom in NY : 9/19/2019 2:53 am : link
This is year 2 of a 3 year rebuild, which I believe internally they knew from the time they hired DG & PS.
They got their QB, have invested in the Oline and defense...next steps are to get QB playing time in preparation for 2020, then add finishing touches to defense and offensive weapons.

PS and DG have 30 games to prove they are the answer....and will have $80MM+ in cap space next year to help. All these reactionary comments, in this moment in time, will look silly when the final picture is in place a year from now.

RE: Agree with '81 as well.  
.McL. : 9/19/2019 3:06 am : link
In comment 14587145 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
This is year 2 of a 3 year rebuild, which I believe internally they knew from the time they hired DG & PS.
They got their QB, have invested in the Oline and defense...next steps are to get QB playing time in preparation for 2020, then add finishing touches to defense and offensive weapons.

PS and DG have 30 games to prove they are the answer....and will have $80MM+ in cap space next year to help. All these reactionary comments, in this moment in time, will look silly when the final picture is in place a year from now.


The Giants only have $60M under the cap next year.

The reality is that I think DJ will show enough that PS will get another year.

However, if DJ tanks and doesn't look like an NFL QB, given that PS is supposed to the QB whisperer, you think he is still back for another year. I don't...

4 wins or less and Shurmur...  
M.S. : 9/19/2019 4:07 am : link

...will be gone. As in fired.

I don't think the pressure is off.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/19/2019 4:55 am : link
If anything, it's on more so now than ever. You got your handpicked QB, the guy you said was good enough with the #6 pick. Look at what Murray is doing right now. Now look at what Minshew out in Jacksonville is doing.

There's no more, "Eli can't run my offense, let him mentor the kid" to fall back on anymore. It's now up to Jones. Jones holds the fate of Shurmurs job. IMO
Lots of insightful  
Big Blue '56 : 9/19/2019 6:28 am : link
comments on here
Always pressure  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/19/2019 6:33 am : link
After last season, Mara had said something "it's gonna take a little time" when asked about the teams turnaround.

There was a cleansing last year as in addition to a talent issue DG and PS felt there was a locker room problem.

The biggest thing the media will look at will be Jones development. However, as much crap as Eli took here with many in the media he was very well liked and respected. I think the media is going to really go hard on Shurmur if he does not win in short order. Not sure he will handle it as well as someone like TC. 14-many losses is going to become a major theme imo.

The biggest factor will be how Jones develops and his relationship with Shurmur. If it is going very well I don't think they mess with that for at least another year. He does not deserve to pick another DC though.....maybe Mara can do that for him!
I'm not sure the pressure is off.  
Section331 : 9/19/2019 9:15 am : link
He still has to win some games, and his future will depend largely on how well Jones develops. If the Giants are, let's say, 2-14, I don't see how they bring Shurmur back.
I don't think the pressure is necessarily to win games  
Mike from Ohio : 9/19/2019 9:36 am : link
It is to have a very competent and competitive offense. If DJ plays well and the offense is staying in shootout games but losing because of the defense, I think he will be back for 2020 with a new DC.

However, if the offense is playing the way it has through the first two weeks of the season and not hitting 20 points, and people are still wondering if DJ is a solid NFL starter, I think he is gone next year.

The team upgraded the line, and spent the #1 and #6 overall draft picks in the last two years to give this guy playmakers. He has full control of the offense. In a couple of weeks he will have SS and Tate back. He has to have the offense going.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/19/2019 9:43 am : link
I think the pressure is ON now, not off.

I don't think Eli was his preferred QB and I don't think he would have had Eli back here as the starter if it were his call.

We do know he really likes Daniel. This is the guy he and Gettleman decided on. Now Daniel is the starter.

It's time to see a change. Not immediately - one game in. But the Giants need to start getting better now otherwise Shurmur isn't going to be here long.

I understand the defense is struggling and looks shitty. But that can't be an excuse. The team needs to start showing signs of improvement sooner than later. The Eli stuff is no longer a debate point. Their QB is in there now.
I don't understand  
rnargi : 9/19/2019 10:26 am : link
Why would he be under any undue amount of pressure? This team has been nearly completely redone over the past two years. He's been given a patchwork. No depth. High, untested draft picks that are now learning on the job. Many of the guys considered the most talented on the team have been jettisoned. His job now is to build the team... improve...who here actually expected him to win either this year or last?

If there is one constant in football that I believe, it's that continuity in the coaching staff breeds winning. Little Bill had losing seasons in 5 of his first 6 years as a head coach. I think it's a good idea to wait until seeing if shurmur is able to win while managing a roster up to professional standards before running him out on a rail...and I sure hope the front office agrees. If they do, there should be no pressure. I'm not sure of anyone else, but I never believed that BS that we were rebuilding while remaining competitive. My non-lying eyes told me differently.
year 2 of a 3 yr rebuild  
fkap : 9/19/2019 10:40 am : link
needs to look like year two, not worse than when the rebuild began. Right now we look worse. The pressure is on to look better by the end of the year.

RE: year 2 of a 3 yr rebuild  
arcarsenal : 9/19/2019 10:43 am : link
In comment 14587620 fkap said:
Quote:
needs to look like year two, not worse than when the rebuild began. Right now we look worse. The pressure is on to look better by the end of the year.


I agree with this.

I have always had my sights set on 2020 for this team to actually be competing for a playoff spot - but there has to be a step forward in between. If there's not, something's not right.
RE: RE: year 2 of a 3 yr rebuild  
rnargi : 9/19/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14587631 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14587620 fkap said:


Quote:


needs to look like year two, not worse than when the rebuild began. Right now we look worse. The pressure is on to look better by the end of the year.




I agree with this.

I have always had my sights set on 2020 for this team to actually be competing for a playoff spot - but there has to be a step forward in between. If there's not, something's not right.


Ditto.
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