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With the “pressure” seemingly off Shurmur, will he attack as

Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:22 pm
he did with a young Foles, a pre-injury Bridgewater and Keenum, with DJ?

By pressure seemingly off, I am referring to much less concern about his job security if DJ evolves game by game. If we wound up with a losing record with Eli as the starter, chances are Shurmur would have been axed.

I believe that unless DJ truly shits the bed, Shurmur just bought at least another year as HC.

If I am correct, I look for an attacking O similar to the one he forged with Foles and Keenum.

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It has nothing to do with pressure. It has everything to do with  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 8:24 pm : link
the fact he'll feel comfortable running bootleg playaction on 1st and 2nd downs.
No talent at WR, but the offense will look much  
RDJR : 9/18/2019 8:25 pm : link
different IMO.
RE: It has nothing to do with pressure. It has everything to do with  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:26 pm : link
In comment 14586915 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
the fact he'll feel comfortable running bootleg playaction on 1st and 2nd downs.


Sure, but as you’ve seen throughout the league, when a coordinator ascends to a HC position, the oft times become extremely conservative
they oft times  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:26 pm : link
.
Sounds good in theory  
Rjanyg : 9/18/2019 8:27 pm : link
But I hope he has WR to throw to. Hopefully Shep plays, Latimer is in concussion protocol. If Tampa takes away Engram like Buffalo did, it might be hard to attack.

Shurmur needs to find ways to get Barkley more involved in the passing game, plain and simple.
Zeke, to finish my thought,  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:29 pm : link
The aggressiveness that brought coordinators into consideration for HC positions, seems to reduce with the pressure of win now. Patience by GMs has become less and less
I see it completely the other way.  
Motley Two : 9/18/2019 8:31 pm : link
14 games. The pressure is on.


So with DJ now at the helm,  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:31 pm : link
he’s not under the win now type pressure so prevalent around the league
RE: I see it completely the other way.  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14586929 Motley Two said:
Quote:
14 games. The pressure is on.



With a rookie QB?
I think the pressure is on as well  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2019 8:34 pm : link
you’re opening up your playbook? It better work.
Shurmur a,ready had a 2nd season locked no matter who the QB was  
Ivan15 : 9/18/2019 8:35 pm : link
He would have had to be more inept than McAdoo, and lost the locker room before being fired at the end of one season.

I predict the Giants getting 4+ wins this season.

Shurmur won’t lose his job before mid season 2020.
This is still  
Les in TO : 9/18/2019 8:39 pm : link
A bottom line business and Shurmur will be shown the door if he doesn’t improve on last year’s 5-11. Just as Handley and McAdoo were only given 2 or less seasons
I don’t think the pressure is off PS at all  
Mike from Ohio : 9/18/2019 8:41 pm : link
He has 14 games to show he can run an effective offense with a QB he helped select. If DJ does not play well or show significant development as the season goes on, his reputation as an offensive genius / QB whisperer takes a hit.

The pressure on DG and PS just increased significantly.
Strongly disagree.  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 8:44 pm : link
Number 6 pick or not, I believe he buys more time with a rookie.
RE: RE: I see it completely the other way.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/18/2019 8:47 pm : link
In comment 14586933 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14586929 Motley Two said:


Quote:


14 games. The pressure is on.





With a rookie QB?


This team has won 8 games out of the last 34 played. And the nitty gritty of those 34 games is even uglier. Also, this defensive coordinator was picked by Shurmur. If they don't at least show something positive he's going to go into 2020 with a very short leash.
RE: This is still  
Justlurking : 9/18/2019 8:52 pm : link
In comment 14586945 Les in TO said:
Quote:
A bottom line business and Shurmur will be shown the door if he doesn’t improve on last year’s 5-11. Just as Handley and McAdoo were only given 2 or less seasons


If jones looks terrible and they go 0-16 DG and Shurmur are gone. Their evaluation skills are clearly in question and the Maras just gave them the rope to hang themselves. They tethered themselves to Jones and this team better show improvement or the real reconstruction will be by an entirely new regime.
BB56 I just heard Phil Simms chime in and I posted  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 8:54 pm : link
my thoughts and video to this thread.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I see it completely the other way.  
Motley Two : 9/18/2019 8:56 pm : link
In comment 14586933 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14586929 Motley Two said:


Quote:


14 games. The pressure is on.





With a rookie QB?


It's their(Shurmur & Gettleman) guy and a top pick. Eli is out of the way. I'm not saying they need go out and win 8 games, this roster still needs some serious building, but there needs to be some serious strides made.

Shurmur's feel for the game & play calling at best seems pretty suspect to me.

I don't care if it's true or not, but he needs to get his offense going and have people believing that Eli's limitations were preventing his offense from performing.

I think it's more than fair to expect this offense to be operating in the ballpark of where it was for the last month of last season...by the time it gets to the last month of this season. Rookie QB or not, the rest of the offense is supposed to be better than the 'No OBJ' offense from last season.


RE: Strongly disagree.  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2019 8:57 pm : link
In comment 14586949 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Number 6 pick or not, I believe he buys more time with a rookie.


He’s got plenty of pressure. There’s absolutely zero chance he thinks he’s safe just because a rookie is in there. You think 2-14 would make him feel awesome heading into 2020?

The pressure is on. There aren’t anymore excuses and there certainly any guarantees of employment. He needs to prove he can get the job done, plain and simple.
I think Shurmur is a joke.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/18/2019 8:57 pm : link
But this buys him '20. After that, who knows? I don't think he's a head coach who is leading us to a Super Bowl.
Aren’t any  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2019 8:57 pm : link
*
I certainly hope we see some changes. I know that DJ  
Blue21 : 9/18/2019 8:59 pm : link
said the offense will be basically the same. But I'm hoping they take advantage of his mobility like other teams do. I thought/hoped that was the reason they got him.
RE: I don’t think the pressure is off PS at all  
Eman11 : 9/18/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14586947 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He has 14 games to show he can run an effective offense with a QB he helped select. If DJ does not play well or show significant development as the season goes on, his reputation as an offensive genius / QB whisperer takes a hit.

The pressure on DG and PS just increased significantly.


It feel this way as well. This is their guy and he has to play well or at the very least show he can be a quality starting QB. If not its on them.

Had they kept Eli as the starter longer he could've been Shurmur's fall guy if it wasn't going well and even if DJ got 4-6 starts he would've bought himself next year. Now, he's got 14 games to show he's the coach they brought him here to be.

If he fails, ( less wins than last year or DJ doesn't show improvement as the season goes along) with his guy running his system I could honestly see him getting axed after this season.
RE: I think Shurmur is a joke.  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14586976 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But this buys him '20. After that, who knows? I don't think he's a head coach who is leading us to a Super Bowl.


I used to think that too, but I don't think it does. The defense looks so bad, the offense better perform. I truly believe that PS thinks that this offense will look better under DJ. I think it will too, the offensive line has been very good and we have Saquon Barkley. DJ opens up the playbook a ton and I don't think PS was ever able to adjust to having his playbook cut in half.
Eman....Bingo...if it was about saving his job you wouldn't see DJ  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:01 pm : link
for as long as possible. He truly believes DJ is his best option to win.
My guess is that Bettcher gets the axe at season's end.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/18/2019 9:02 pm : link
Shurmur stays. DJ & Saquon are 'The Guys' heading into 2020. Next year is going to be big.
RE: I don’t think the pressure is off PS at all  
bw in dc : 9/18/2019 9:03 pm : link
In comment 14586947 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
He has 14 games to show he can run an effective offense with a QB he helped select. If DJ does not play well or show significant development as the season goes on, his reputation as an offensive genius / QB whisperer takes a hit.

The pressure on DG and PS just increased significantly.


I share this view. However it came about, which I am very interested to know the backstory, it appears Shurmur got his way and Jones is now in the saddle to run Shurmur's offense.

So I think there needs to be two outcomes to get Shurmur on some firm ground going forward:

1. Sculpt Jones into a play-making NFL QB. Biggest priority.

2. Create an offense that starts to have an identity and scores points at a greater rate.

I'm assuming the defense is going to be a drag on this team the entire year. So let's at least get the more competent side of the ball going in the right direction. Use the off-season to fix the D with more talent and possibly a new DC.
First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Diver_Down : 9/18/2019 9:04 pm : link
by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.
I don't think the pressure  
Sneakers O'toole : 9/18/2019 9:04 pm : link
is, or should be, on this early in the reclamation project. You weren't going to fix 2017 this quickly.

I think the reality in the building is quite different from what your hearing from fans and media.
RE: First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:05 pm : link
In comment 14586990 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.


That’s fair
Shurmur needs to show  
fkap : 9/18/2019 9:05 pm : link
he's got the team heading in the right direction. W-L is less important than showing promise.
If they suck, and stay sucking, without showing improvement, he doesn't get a pass. "But they're rookies" isn't an excuse if they suck, the play calling sucks, the preparation sucks, etc.

Improvement and working to establish a core for the future is his mandate now.
RE: First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14586990 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.


Betcher said he is going to use more press man this week, which is interesting considering TB's weapons, but at least fits what our guys do well and we'll see less blown assignments. TB's tight ends are going to kill us though. Everyone talkin about OJ Mayo being a bust, he just hasn't had a chance to play us yet!
Regardless,  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:07 pm : link
I see him using all his O options as a HC, similar to his stint as OC. I sure hope so.
Bettcher said he's going to use more press man this weekend?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/18/2019 9:09 pm : link
Sunday is going to be interesting.
RE: RE: First, let me say that I'm surprised  
Diver_Down : 9/18/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14586997 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14586990 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


by your use of the colloquialism "DJ shits the bed". Coming from you, it caught me off-guard.

I always figured Shurmur had this year and next except in the unlikely scenario that he loses the locker room with in-fighting and public airing of grievances. With that said, there should be an expectation that the team improves.

I think the only coach on the hot seat is Bettcher. With the total overhaul of the defensive roster, these are all Bettcher Boys. Not expecting the '85 Bears, but they absolutely can not be a bottom ranked defense. Shurmur said after Dallas, they need to learn fast.



Betcher said he is going to use more press man this week, which is interesting considering TB's weapons, but at least fits what our guys do well and we'll see less blown assignments. TB's tight ends are going to kill us though. Everyone talkin about [insert random player's name] being a bust, he just hasn't had a chance to play us yet!


I fixed your last sentence. We are the team that every opponent circles on the schedule as the Get Right game.
I think in a way you are right  
NoGainDayne : 9/18/2019 9:11 pm : link
it takes the pressure off in the sense that if Jones looks good and the offense scores points I think they could get away with having a bad overall record and PS and DG keeping their jobs.

It also allows him to showcase his best skill. Maybe he's overwhelmed with some of this stuff and just teaching a QB the ropes getting back to something he feels better at will give him more confidence and say call better plays?
RE: I think in a way you are right  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14587005 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
it takes the pressure off in the sense that if Jones looks good and the offense scores points I think they could get away with having a bad overall record and PS and DG keeping their jobs.

It also allows him to showcase his best skill. Maybe he's overwhelmed with some of this stuff and just teaching a QB the ropes getting back to something he feels better at will give him more confidence and say call better plays?


That’s exactly my sense. And yes, I could be completely off on this re Shurmur’s security.
RE: Shurmur a,ready had a 2nd season locked no matter who the QB was  
clatterbuck : 9/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14586939 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
He would have had to be more inept than McAdoo, and lost the locker room before being fired at the end of one season.

I predict the Giants getting 4+ wins this season.

Shurmur won’t lose his job before mid season 2020.


Well, this is Shurmur's second season but I think he'll get at least one more to see what he can do with Jones,
I think Shurmur is far from a lock to return..  
Sean : 9/18/2019 9:18 pm : link
He will be evaluated based on game management, progress, competitiveness, etc.

Shurmur’s record is 15-36 right now, if we go 3-13 and then it’s 18-49, you can’t sell that for 2020.
Nothing would make me happier than seeing an all out aggressive  
MM_in_NYC : 9/18/2019 9:32 pm : link
scheme from our team moving forward. Just push it. Let's go!
Too many fans and commentators are saying that Shurmur  
GeofromNJ : 9/18/2019 9:44 pm : link
made the switch because he wants to save his job. I think he made the switch because he wants to win games and he thinks that DJ offers a better chance to win. Sure, if the Giants win, Shurmur will stay, but he first wants to win and he thinks that with Eli he's leaving victories on the field and this is killing him.
RE: Too many fans and commentators are saying that Shurmur  
Big Blue '56 : 9/18/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14587056 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
made the switch because he wants to save his job. I think he made the switch because he wants to win games and he thinks that DJ offers a better chance to win. Sure, if the Giants win, Shurmur will stay, but he first wants to win and he thinks that with Eli he's leaving victories on the field and this is killing him.


As has been stated many times on here, The D has left W’s on the field more than Eli has.
Either way  
Mike in Boston : 9/18/2019 9:48 pm : link
He should be fired (indeed, he should have been fired last year). If Jones is better for the team than Eli, he should be fired for not starting him in game 1. If not, he should be fired for blowing off this season and starting the 2020 preseason in Sept 2019. How hard do you think anyone is going to play if the team figures it is all about preparing g for next year?
RE: RE: I think Shurmur is a joke.  
HomerJones45 : 9/18/2019 9:50 pm : link
In comment 14586981 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14586976 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


But this buys him '20. After that, who knows? I don't think he's a head coach who is leading us to a Super Bowl.



I used to think that too, but I don't think it does. The defense looks so bad, the offense better perform. I truly believe that PS thinks that this offense will look better under DJ. I think it will too, the offensive line has been very good and we have Saquon Barkley. DJ opens up the playbook a ton and I don't think PS was ever able to adjust to having his playbook cut in half.
i think he's a one trick pony who rode Adam Thelien, Stefan Diggs, Rudolph, McKinnon, Murray and Cook for one year before they got poleaxed by the Eagles. if you are expecting some radical improvement in the offense because this yutz was handed a rookie who maybe can roll out, your expectations are out of whack. .300 winning percentage as a head coach. How the fuck is even a head coach.
We'll we will find out, but you love out the part where he had  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:54 pm : link
patchwork offensive line and Case freaking Keenum at QB.
I too have question about Shurmur, but he coached the damn Browns  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:55 pm : link
and Browns-lite(us). He has the pieces in place for what he wants to do, we'll find our answer soon enough.
.  
Amazinz : 9/18/2019 9:56 pm : link
Yeah… I hope so… But I’m skeptical.

How good is a coach that can’t adapt to Eli? What would Belichick do with Eli?

I’m ready. Prove yourself Shurmur. But Giants need to move on this year if Shurmur shits the bed.
RE: I think Shurmur is far from a lock to return..  
japanhead : 9/18/2019 10:06 pm : link
In comment 14587013 Sean said:
Quote:
He will be evaluated based on game management, progress, competitiveness, etc.

Shurmur’s record is 15-36 right now, if we go 3-13 and then it’s 18-49, you can’t sell that for 2020.


i can't find more than 3 wins on the schedule, but i guess things can change.
RE: RE: Too many fans and commentators are saying that Shurmur  
GeofromNJ : 9/18/2019 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14587060 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14587056 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


made the switch because he wants to save his job. I think he made the switch because he wants to win games and he thinks that DJ offers a better chance to win. Sure, if the Giants win, Shurmur will stay, but he first wants to win and he thinks that with Eli he's leaving victories on the field and this is killing him.



As has been stated many times on here, The D has left W’s on the field more than Eli has.

That may or may not be true, but Shurmur can't fix the D with the players that he has. He can, however, fix the offense (in his opinion) by changing quarterbacks.
RE: I see it completely the other way.  
NYGmen58 : 9/18/2019 10:53 pm : link
In comment 14586929 Motley Two said:
Quote:
14 games. The pressure is on.



THIS!
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