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Phil Simms on Chris Simms Unbuttoned Talking DJ

Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 8:51 pm
Pretty much echoes my sentiments about Daniel Jones and the fit for this offense. Says we'll see DJ under center quite a bit.

Lots of people here are why haven't we seen Eli a ton under center? Well because you can't run outside stretch runs or bootleg playaction with Eli because he can't move. So if you are under center you are practically telegraphing you are running the ball inside the tackles or not running outside zone, which PS before he came here loved to run, and Saquon will feast with his unreal vision.

I think people are going to be very surprised to see our offense perform. DJ is going to turn the ball over, but that comes with starting a rookie a QB. At least we'll move the ball on offense. This is going to look like a brand new offense.
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excited  
djm : 9/18/2019 8:57 pm : link
.
RE: excited  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:02 pm : link
In comment 14586973 djm said:
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I certainly am.
It is an odd conclusion with regards to DJ under center.  
Diver_Down : 9/18/2019 9:18 pm : link
Majority of his plays this preseason were from the shotgun. In fact, he only passed 3 times from under center utilizing play-action. The scouting report is that if he is under center, it will likely be a hand-off. Most of his passing is from the shotgun. I hope it isn't so predictable in Tampa as it is a recipe for disaster for a defense to pick up on the cues on a rookie QB's first start.
RE: It is an odd conclusion with regards to DJ under center.  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/18/2019 9:25 pm : link
In comment 14587016 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
Majority of his plays this preseason were from the shotgun. In fact, he only passed 3 times from under center utilizing play-action. The scouting report is that if he is under center, it will likely be a hand-off. Most of his passing is from the shotgun. I hope it isn't so predictable in Tampa as it is a recipe for disaster for a defense to pick up on the cues on a rookie QB's first start.


I think that was to build his confidence as a passer. He also clearly needed work as he fumbled an exchange on an outside stretch run. He's had time to practice now, but he's a good athlete he'll pick it up fast.
RE: RE: It is an odd conclusion with regards to DJ under center.  
Diver_Down : 9/18/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14587027 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14587016 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


Majority of his plays this preseason were from the shotgun. In fact, he only passed 3 times from under center utilizing play-action. The scouting report is that if he is under center, it will likely be a hand-off. Most of his passing is from the shotgun. I hope it isn't so predictable in Tampa as it is a recipe for disaster for a defense to pick up on the cues on a rookie QB's first start.



I think that was to build his confidence as a passer. He also clearly needed work as he fumbled an exchange on an outside stretch run. He's had time to practice now, but he's a good athlete he'll pick it up fast.


The shotgun passing won't go away and you are right that it was used to build confidence. The Giants are very sensitive to the public perception of DJ from the draft backlash. My complaint with Shurmur in the preseason is that there was no turning of the screw with regards to increasing the complexity of the offensive playcalls for DJ. While I wasn't expecting Pat to throw DJ into the deep end, I was expecting the swimmies to be taken off in the Bengals game.

With DJ's first start in Tampa, I expect more of the same that we saw in the preseason. Pat is not going to open up the full playbook with DJ's first start. I hope we see 20+ touches for Barkley, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't as Pat seems to forget about Barkley by the 3rd quarter.
Thanks, Zeke.  
3putt : 9/18/2019 9:57 pm : link
Interesting thought, the Giants running game was impeded by Eli's lack of mobility. I'll be looking for the stretch plays.
Interesting take  
Rjanyg : 9/18/2019 10:23 pm : link
I like listening to Phil and Chris. Smart dudes
Not sure I understand this one  
ChaChing : 9/18/2019 11:48 pm : link
so all Os w/ less athletic QBs are limited by their feet and therefore can't run outside the tackles? Brady, Flacco, Stafford, Winston, whoever in history, couldn't run these from under center? IMO Bledsoe's & Palmer's would have been F'd all career. Eli's been running these for ages, so now he's lost all this athleticism going from slow to beyond slower, which we haven't heard (more issues w/ throws or decision-making). Last I remember the complaint was not CALLING enough plays from under-center & being too predictable esp under BM but possibly PS too

Not knocking OP or anyone. I also agree, DJ could make a much bigger immediate difference given his skill set. And I get not moving Eli all around (as they did some this season). But slow QBs 'can't run stretch plays' or 'play from under center / PAs' - not sure I get that exactly...
Also fwiw, I thought we heard Eli came into the season  
ChaChing : 9/19/2019 12:04 am : link
having lost a fairly large chunk of weight for the first time. Obviously there's more preseason platitudes said than manifested on the field, but it's funny in context if true
RPO was never really  
jvm52106 : 9/19/2019 5:46 am : link
a threat with Manning but, it sure is now. I think Jones opens things up here and, his time with the #2's and #3's should mean more of connection to guys like TJ Jones, Fowler, Slayton and RS who all will play more this week and coming weeks.

If Jones can pick up a couple of first downs a week with his feet that adds more plays and chances that we just didnt get before. On top of that Barkley should get more free route ops now as slight fakes, full play fakes and Jones Rollouts should slow the defense from keying on SB in the backfield, unsure of where the ball actually is.
Could this show have  
mattnyg05 : 9/19/2019 6:15 am : link
a less porn themed title?
well  
liteamorn : 9/19/2019 6:57 am : link
Lets hope the receivers can hang onto the ball.
RE: Could this show have  
Diver_Down : 9/19/2019 7:26 am : link
In comment 14587166 mattnyg05 said:
Quote:
a less porn themed title?


What do you mean? Chris Simms is known for always wearing his top button buttoned up. His podcasts is a play on that reputation in that "loosens up" or is unbuttoned.
ChaChing, all those QBs can move better than Eli. Stafford and  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/19/2019 7:53 am : link
Jameis move a helluva lot better than Eli at this point, so not sure why you even bring them up. Flacco is a borderline starter and Brady does a ton of shit that Eli can't. So I'm not sure what your general point is.
It is about running outside stretch runs, which in Shurmur's zone  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/19/2019 7:58 am : link
power scheme is huge. If you go see what he likes to run as an offensive coordinator, we have been rarely running any of that. And yes, when your QB can barely move it becomes tough to run play action under center. I think you may have some tinted glasses on when it comes to just how bad Eli's mobility has become, when you put him on the same level as guys like Jameis and Stafford. And you dropped a Carson Palmer reference in there, which interestingly enough Arians is probably the only coach's scheme in the league Eli could still be effective for.
Hilarious  
GiantEgo : 9/19/2019 9:50 am : link
Daniel Jones - legendary athlete of the century.
Phil was commenting earlier on the podcast..  
Racer : 9/19/2019 11:18 am : link
..that San Francisco runs a lot of plays from under center, and that young linebackers, particularly young 215lb linebackers don't have the experience against the formation nor are they ready to take on linemen.

He made specific reference to Bengals LBs running the wrong way on their run fits.
RE: ChaChing, all those QBs can move better than Eli. Stafford and  
ChaChing : 9/19/2019 11:18 am : link
In comment 14587206 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Jameis move a helluva lot better than Eli at this point, so not sure why you even bring them up. Flacco is a borderline starter and Brady does a ton of shit that Eli can't. So I'm not sure what your general point is.

I wouldn't bet on Eli in a race, but outside of JW wouldn't say the rest are SO much more athletic they can call outside runs, but Eli can't. There isn't THAT big an athletic difference even if he's bringing up the rear (and why I mentioned the even lesser athletes like Bledsoe), esp discussing 3-4-5 step drops, not long sprints...

Plus Tiki ran a TON of stretch plays, even w/ Warner's even less mobile ass iirc. I recall debates of how Jacobs shouldn't be running stretches / outside as much post Tiki given his style (not QB's footspeed). But they didn't stop calling them (esp w/ AB). Nor have we come across the idea Eli has fallen off a huge athletic cliff. So why is this so preventative now, but not b4 for him or a slew of similar QBs (were Carson Palmer O's limited to inside runs?). We've known the run game issues w/ the OL & RB for yrs, but first we're hearing Eli or QB's athleticism preventing outside run calls

If that was the case, Eli would have been run out of town 4-5 yrs ago. If a QB prevents half or more of the RB run playcalls, he shouldn't be an NFL QB. Not sure I buy that part in this context. Again not a knock on you or anyone else Zeke, I just don't see it
So are you saying  
ChaChing : 9/19/2019 11:35 am : link
BA didn't run those w/ Palmer? Or in general doesn't run stretch / outside runs? I'm sure this happens as a tendency, but right now it sounds like Eli CANNOT run these (tho he has in the past for ages) as well as a slew of other slow footed QBs (again, unless we're saying Eli is THE slowest of them all AND slower than b4). So they just can't call them? Seems like you couldn't even use a QB like that...

If Eli really IS this far behind, how has he been QB for the last 4-5 yrs (aside from complaints on his throws, decision-making, pocket presence)? Also we haven't seen a big drop in his athleticism so it's curious why today this is an issue, but rarely mentioned w/ all the run game problems b4 (weak OL, RBs, playcall sure - but Eli MUST have been a huge part of the problem if true). Seems impossible to have a QB who limits your run plays to the inside the tackles to this level. Would be an ever bigger indictment to the FO / GM / coaches etc, but we never really heard it til now

Maybe it's right - and if so it's WAY beyond time Eli was canned. I just don't see it this way tho
im not buying that he cant run the outside stretch run  
Mighty : 9/19/2019 3:39 pm : link
the handoff from the QB is not that much different than any other run. Its how the OL turns their man and staying engaged that makes a stretch run different. Its not like an option where the QB is carrying the ball out to the edge so his speed would make a difference. the RB gets the ball and looks for a lane to cut up going from inside to out.

RPO or QB option then yeah Eli would be beyond terrible at those because the Defense would not respect the choice of him keeping it but stretch runs have no bearing on a QBs athleticism.
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