It's based on two things I've seen this week. The first, is based on Jackrabbit's rant:
“When you’ve got time [to throw] and you ain’t getting no pressure, I can’t cover nobody for 10 seconds,” Jenkins said, via NJ.com. “Who can cover somebody for 10 seconds? Go look at the first five seconds of the route. He’s not open. If you’re scrambling and there ain’t no pressure getting there, what do you want me to do? I can’t cover this side and that side. Come on, bro. We’ve got to play football around here.” |
the next, had to do with Brian Baldinger's defense of Eli Manning and how no receivers are open in a twitter breakdown video:
Baldy Breakdown of Manning
It's clear from the Baldy Breakdown that our WR's are not getting open before the pass rush is getting to Manning. What we need Jones to do, is not take off running for the first down, but rather run to a different spot, reset, and buy our WR's the extra 5 seconds or so for the coverage to break down.
However, this can't be all on Jones. One alarming thing from the Baldy Breakdown was that when Eli tried to do this, rolled out, bought time, and re-established the launching point, nobody came back to the ball. I know these WR's are young and inexperienced, but they've got to start practicing coming back to the ball when the QB breaks the pocket. In fact, they should start to expect it.
Now the drops are a different story, it is what it is and this is what we're working with. But consistently re-establishing the pocket and different points on the field to throw from should throw an element of unpredictability that you can't necessarily gameplan for, and should add a new wrinkle into our offense that wasn't there before. That's what I'm hoping for anyways.
Daniel Jones is built like a mobile pocket passer. He's a big dude. We don't need him to run for the first down. We just need him to buy us that extra five seconds.
But it seems to me that he is a "run as a last resort" type. Whereas a lot of mobile QBs are looking for that opening to run
for 5 years defenses have tee'd off on 1 spot and gone up-field or bull rushed through- with no fears of a negative outcome
and our line is actually decent now, in prior years it was awful but would have looked less bad
I think mobility of Jones is a component of making this change because with the lack of juice at WR we need something else to give the offense some sort of advantage.
for 5 years defenses have tee'd off on 1 spot and gone up-field or bull rushed through- with no fears of a negative outcome
This^
Basically give them multiple looks from a passing standpoint and every now and again pull it down and run for 5 yards, 10 yards. I dont want to see him plow through anyone. Run for 5 yards and slide. get the 1st and slide.
The rollout of Eli in the 1st game in the red zone with basically the only option to pass makes it too easy. Eli was just too slow to open that play up. there is no hesitation with the D. Oh shit the QB is running giving the WR a little space to work with or giving Jones the space to run.
no one wants to see Jones running all over the field but a few yards here and there is what we need. Eli ran for 500 yards in 15 seasons. I think Jones can at least get 200 in a season, just enough to keep the D on its heels like Aaron Rodgers does.
On 95% of the plays that run as called we will be lucky if Jones properly executes them the way Eli did (many similar to Baldinger's analysis). Most likely Jones will make more mistakes and go through some growing pains.
Where Jones can literally be a game changer is on the other 5% of plays. If can turn a free blitzer from a sack into a scramble play that gets a first down, or even better a WR who breaks free into a long touchdown, that's a back breaker for the defense. We should know because we've had enough of those hit on us by Dak and Josh Allen already this year.
Did I say that was the plan? I said here is how Jones can improve the offense is it currently is. By doing that.
This offensive line is good. Probably in the 8-12 range. They'll look markedly improved with DJ there, even though they won't be doing anything different.
and our line is actually decent now, in prior years it was awful but would have looked less bad
I agree with this 100%. Pass rushers didn't need to keep an eye on Eli, they just have to get to a spot and Eli would likely be somewhere in the vicinity.
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Is to buy an extra 5 seconds in the pocket and run a broken play offense? Come on man.
Did I say that was the plan? I said here is how Jones can improve the offense is it currently is. By doing that.
Your proposed improvement is based on the assumption that every other defense has a pass rush as shitty as ours. They don’t — our pass rush is easily the worst in the league.
Even assuming this is viable, how many plays is this a realistic possibility? 5 tops?
Do you really trust Solder and Remmers in a moving pocket scenario?
I think we need to be careful painting with a broad brush with this thought. Baldinger took 3-4 plays and framed it as if every play is like those.
That's some serious cherry picking and not something I would base any premise on.
I'm not suggesting we have a corp of great receivers. But not every play we run has receivers completely blanketed.
All you have to do is look at the other Cutcliffe proteges, Payton and Eli if you want to see what will happen his rookie year.
Also DJ is a pocket first passer. Can he run? Yes. However, watching him on film, he was never exactly an escape artist.
2019 for the Giants is not about winning now, its about learning and growth. They took the cap hit with a bunch of bad contracts, now they are going to take the rookie learning curve hit at QB.
I feel like Eli used to do that, and his play fakes were nearly identical to his actual hand offs. If Jones can do that as well as he did during preseason I think we'll really have something.
A majority of the decision could be based on the desire to give him game experience and better prepare him for the future.
Gilbride was scapegoated after 2013, but we should have built the line back up and let Eli run the offense in which he won 2 SB’s. Instead McAdoo changed his footwork trying to make him be something he isn’t. A major blunder.
Watching the Eli highlights, you see how he has definitely lost 1 of the 3 total steps he had.
And picking up a couple first downs or a keeper for a score with your legs can be huge.
Me too, but probably unrealistic to think he'll be ripping off 89 yard runs weekly, but he needs to show he can run, in order to be considered a threat.
On 95% of the plays that run as called we will be lucky if Jones properly executes them the way Eli did (many similar to Baldinger's analysis). Most likely Jones will make more mistakes and go through some growing pains.
Where Jones can literally be a game changer is on the other 5% of plays. If can turn a free blitzer from a sack into a scramble play that gets a first down, or even better a WR who breaks free into a long touchdown, that's a back breaker for the defense. We should know because we've had enough of those hit on us by Dak and Josh Allen already this year.
Dont jump to conclusions. Our 3 to 5 WRs are no great shakes but Shep has shown he can win and Tate certainly has too. Throw in Engram and Barkley and a QB that may be able to buy some time with his legs , we may have something pretty good.
We were doing same thing to Zeke in first Dallas game last year and a more than a few times Dak kept it and went around left end(who was cheating/crashing in completely ignoring him) for some big gains(10+ yards)
It seems there can be several reasons including thoughts around accuracy, anticipating and not hesitating, throwing tighter spirals and additional plays that can be orchestrated, amongst others.
Not to say Jones is superior in all these but maybe Shurmur has seen enough of Eli struggling with these in first 2 games...
Eli struggled with screen passes?
I want him to develop to his strength I meant to say. SHouldn't have to worry about adapting this poor core of bottom tier WR's.
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It's clear from the Baldy Breakdown that our WR's are not getting open before the pass rush is getting to Manning.
I think we need to be careful painting with a broad brush with this thought. Baldinger took 3-4 plays and framed it as if every play is like those.
That's some serious cherry picking and not something I would base any premise on.
I'm not suggesting we have a corp of great receivers. But not every play we run has receivers completely blanketed.
But I did see stats on how much separation our receivers had overall and they were pretty raunchy. Cody Latimer was the best of the wideout at 1.8 yards on average, which is well below the league average. (Engram was the best on the Giants at 3.5 which is pretty reasonable. )
you will see the difference when barkley gets going and that first play action roll out you will see the backers have to make a tough decision..
Also eli could not run play action from under center because he was to slow changes the effect of play action
I also think that Jones accuracy can throw WR open. He did it pre-season with the same WRs.
It won't be a bed of roses, but I really expect an improvement on offense.
And yes, The Aaron Rodgers style of run only if necessary is preferred. Not sure I want a rookie QB running.
+1.
I know many on here see him as a very good scrambler that can pass well off of it. I'm not sold on that. Just because he is better than ELi at scrambling doesn't mean he is good at it. I look forward to seeing how often he moves out of the pocket on designed plays - how successful he is throwing the ball.
Also looking forward to see his maneuverability within the pocket and the results. I suspect at times he'll breakaway with some gains. But he seems to me to be more "fast" than "quick." But time will tell. Can't wait.