Does it concern anyone that the Giants spent months saying that they were proponents of the KC method giving Jones time to learn and mature from the sidelines and now after two games they have done a complete 180? You would think that like any good business they would have gamed out all the possible scenarios and someone would have considered that they have a very young and not very talented defense and they were going to start the year against two very tough defenses.
I agree that the move had to be made barring a miraculous playoff run, but doing so at this time seems panicked and reeks to me of desperation. Is starting Jones against a quick Tampa defense without Tate, Latimer and maybe Sheppard whats truly best for his development or did Shurmur afraid for this job go to a front office that pays far too much attention to an angry and impatient fan base and they completely switched gears out of fear?
What is it going to be like in Giants land in a month if they are 0-6 and the realization that Jones can't save the season takes hold. I am sure that next on the firing line are Bechter, Baker, Ogltree, etc, but when do the Tua chants start? I have seen a lot of former GMs on TV state that it is very tricky developing a QB in a major market due to all the pressure. Jones seems like a tough kid, but maybe giving him more time on the bench, letting Eli bare the brunt of the criticism until everyone realizes that the season truly is about development and the receivers are back at full strength would have been better.
I am really starting to question how the decisions are being made and who is making them. A lot of posters are lauding that now we can run Shurmur's full offense, but this is a guy who doesn't use Barkley on 3rd & 2 and then 4th & 1 and are bootlegs really going to change the world? In a season that was always all about development are the Giants really putting Daniel Jones in the best position to succeed or did they just panic and do an about face to try and change the narrative and temporarily satisfy some very restless natives?
What say you BBI? If we ruin this kid who seems to have so much potential we are in a world of hurt for the next half a decade!
OK, I will try this again, was it wrong how the Eagles handled the development of Wentz by starting him right away or the Texans with Watson, or Wilson with the Seahawks.
Part of why I have serious trust issues with the Giants decision making
Its still about winning games. It would be a mistake for any organization to stick to a plan no matter what. Ideally the Giants would be 2-0 and send Eli off with a Superbowl victory, Eli retires and Jones takes over.
Reality that the D is terrible right now. The O has not scored enough points even with a good D so what are we waiting for? No one is expecting Jones to have an MVP season but its nice to get the next chapter started while we have nothing to lose than wait a whole year to see what Jones can do.
Me personally I would like to see a competent QB get better each week and have some games where he is great. That would show we have the QB of the future to me. The more looks the kid sees now the better he should be to handle it in the future. Dont compare him to Mahomes or the Giants to the Chiefs. They are 2 totally different situations.
Also part of the process is the NFL teams personnel sitting down with these guys one on one and picking their brains. Obviously Jones impressed the Giants enough for them to take him at 6 and they have enough confidence in his ability to make the switch in week 2. Jones seems like a bright kid with the on field ability to do what it takes. Also from the limited interaction he has had with the NY media seems like he can handle the off field as well.
As many of mentioned here, he seems like the perfect person to transition from Eli with and will handle himself in the same manner.
I think 2 games of this on the film would prompt any organization looking at the future to evaluate how much progress can be made by sticking with the veteran QB.
I really believe they foresaw this stronger interior 3 on the OL with Tate and an improving (possibly, jury is still out) Engram bringing the offense to a level where Eli could put points on the board, and ultimately make it a better machine to hand over to DJ. This week might be plan B or C. Adapt and move on with the project.
Bingo. First post over the fence.
Secondly, the KC plan? What about this team reminds you of that play off Team
Thirdly, if you see an original plan is not working, and you stick with it despite your # 6 quarterback in the wings, that would be cause for concern
Fourthly, It s probable this coaching staff believes Eli s lack of athleticism has been holding them back, and Jones gives them the better chance to win.
Eli has been given more opportunities to remain a starter than any other NFL quarterback in recent memory who has had 1 winning season 7 years and is 8-25 in his last 33 starts.
These posts that continue to bemoan his demotion after 2 games have become annoying.
It s about what s best for the New York Giants, not Eli.
I think 2 games of this on the film would prompt any organization looking at the future to evaluate how much progress can be made by sticking with the veteran QB.
I really believe they foresaw this stronger interior 3 on the OL with Tate and an improving (possibly, jury is still out) Engram bringing the offense to a level where Eli could put points on the board, and ultimately make it a better machine to hand over to DJ. This week might be plan B or C. Adapt and move on with the project.
Good point.
Secondly, the KC plan? What about this team reminds you of that play off Team
Thirdly, if you see an original plan is not working, and you stick with it despite your # 6 quarterback in the wings, that would be cause for concern
Fourthly, It s probable this coaching staff believes Eli s lack of athleticism has been holding them back, and Jones gives them the better chance to win.
Eli has been given more opportunities to remain a starter than any other NFL quarterback in recent memory who has had 1 winning season 7 years and is 8-25 in his last 33 starts.
These posts that continue to bemoan his demotion after 2 games have become annoying.
It s about what s best for the New York Giants, not Eli.
A woman called into HCR this morning and was literally screaming about how the Giants did Eli dirty.
So some are certainly in agony over the reigns being handed over
Ok yeah great idea. All you need to do is spot the HoF QB.
I think Jones has been better than expected, while Eli has been a little worse. So that also changed the plan.
The combination means his time as the starter has come to an end. I agree with that 100% and they didn't handle it poorly this time around. Now, if they had pulled him for Taney, that would be another story.
Ultimately this is about risk. I don't see how we've decreased our risk by making this decision in week 3. And to be clear, that risk is not having a successful team in the upcoming season and beyond. I don't think anyone is saying Jones is actually going to lead us to the playoffs this year. So the question about making him a starter is either based on (1) they think this will help his development, or (2) excite the fanbase (and of course it can be a combination). If the reason is (2) then that is horribly stupid and we have people making decisions who shouldn't be. If the reason is (1) then I have would really like to hear some concrete logic for it - because from my vantage he's walking into a shit starting situation whereas he would benefit from more time learning on the bench and not being played with a low chance of success.
I'm sure ideally they would have loved to have everyone healthy, the defense playing well, and that they started off the season 2-0. But it didn't play out that way and they have adjusted course.
Are you saying Gettleman made it up?
The problem is this isn't a very good team and each week it becomes more apparent there is little benefit of Eli starting other than nostalgia and emotions so they changed course.
Like KC , Giants were a playoff team but McAdoo knew Eli was fading fast as effective QB
so McAdoo was begging to draft Mahomes !!
Like KC , Giants were a playoff team but McAdoo knew Eli was fading fast as effective QB
so McAdoo was begging to draft Mahomes !!
Except the Giants couldn't have drafted Mahomes even had they wanted to. He was long gone by 23
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I find it so ironic McAdoo wanted to use the KC method
Like KC , Giants were a playoff team but McAdoo knew Eli was fading fast as effective QB
so McAdoo was begging to draft Mahomes !!
Except the Giants couldn't have drafted Mahomes even had they wanted to. He was long gone by 23
They could have done the same as KC - they could have traded up. That ship has sailed, so no point in rehashing it.
The idea that the Giants were looking at the KC model was stupid from the jump. KC was in a completely situation from the Giants. If anything, just makes the Giants ability to self-assess look that bad yet again.
about Lattimer but Tate would have been helpful '
I was surprised by the move but they made the move
so lets see how it transpires he really didn't
have any pro reps Cowboys game was garbage time .
I don't expect him to set the world on fire hopefully
he just plays smart and hangs on to the football.
It is fucking over already. How many more years of losing do we need? What exactly are some of you afraid of? We cannot get much worse.
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The O has not scored enough points even with a good D so what are we waiting for?
Huh? What do you mean by a "Good D?"
It is fucking over already. How many more years of losing do we need? What exactly are some of you afraid of? We cannot get much worse.
Huh??????????
I think you're out of your mind in your confidence that it is "obvious" to go with Jones. I'm 50-50 going with Jones now that Shep can play but to dismiss not having him sit imo is silly.
How is it that this will make Jones better if Shep isn't 100% ready to play? Are you sure he is absolutely 100% fine? Because if he isn't - then chances are the WR's wont get open enough. How often do you think Jones will be content to just throw the ball away if WR's are not open? And yes he is more mobile than ELi -- but he is no "Michael Vick" either.
And if/until his coach proves he is not a complete idiot you think it a good idea for Jones to not give the ball to Barkley much because the coach seems like he is unwilling to use Barkley as much as he should? While having Wr's that can't get open? Would waiting just two games for Tate to come back in which you give Jones some experience with Tate and Shep really stunted his growth over the course of next season and his career? If you have Engram, Tate and Shep - if one goes down and you still have Sb you have weapons. But with no Tate and one guy goes down -- the GMEN have a passing attack easily contained.
How is that good for Jones? SO he can learn to throw the ball out of bounds? If Shep or Jones go down you've just given Jones the worst possible scenario. And with our idiotic coach - you have confidence that he isn't going to put Jones in bad situations?
Ideally I would like the coach to show some signs of life that he has a brain by using SB a lot. In addition to- I'd like to see our QB throw to receivers who actually know the plays. Didn't you listen last week and hear how the bottom tier WR's were running some wrong routes? How does that possibly help Jones this early in his career?
Yet with all this I'm 50-50 playing him cuz Shep and Engram along with SB is decent enough. Those other crummy WR's need more time. Too bad Latimer is hurt. While he is not that good he is better than the other bottom tier guys.
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this team has sucked for how many years now? Questioning whether we should have waited longer to make the change is like still hesitating to dump Blockbuster Video stock.
It is fucking over already. How many more years of losing do we need? What exactly are some of you afraid of? We cannot get much worse.
Huh??????????
I think you're out of your mind in your confidence that it is "obvious" to go with Jones. I'm 50-50 going with Jones now that Shep can play but to dismiss not having him sit imo is silly.
How is it that this will make Jones better if Shep isn't 100% ready to play? Are you sure he is absolutely 100% fine? Because if he isn't - then chances are the WR's wont get open enough. How often do you think Jones will be content to just throw the ball away if WR's are not open? And yes he is more mobile than ELi -- but he is no "Michael Vick" either.
And if/until his coach proves he is not a complete idiot you think it a good idea for Jones to not give the ball to Barkley much because the coach seems like he is unwilling to use Barkley as much as he should? While having Wr's that can't get open? Would waiting just two games for Tate to come back in which you give Jones some experience with Tate and Shep really stunted his growth over the course of next season and his career? If you have Engram, Tate and Shep - if one goes down and you still have Sb you have weapons. But with no Tate and one guy goes down -- the GMEN have a passing attack easily contained.
How is that good for Jones? SO he can learn to throw the ball out of bounds? If Shep or Jones go down you've just given Jones the worst possible scenario. And with our idiotic coach - you have confidence that he isn't going to put Jones in bad situations?
Ideally I would like the coach to show some signs of life that he has a brain by using SB a lot. In addition to- I'd like to see our QB throw to receivers who actually know the plays. Didn't you listen last week and hear how the bottom tier WR's were running some wrong routes? How does that possibly help Jones this early in his career?
Yet with all this I'm 50-50 playing him cuz Shep and Engram along with SB is decent enough. Those other crummy WR's need more time. Too bad Latimer is hurt. While he is not that good he is better than the other bottom tier guys.
I meant "If SHep or Engram go down" for this TB game then Jones has nothing to throw to ./ his passing will be easily contained. Thereby putting him more at risk in part because our coach has proven to be an idiot.
Would it have been better if Jones was held back a bit? Yes it would have because that would have meant Eli was playing well and the team was scoring and winning.
Neither of those things were happening, and it could be argued that the way Eli was handling adversity was part of the reason for that with regards to the offense.
I don't think anyone in their right mind thought the Giants were going to beat the Cowboys, but I do believe they should have performed better against the Bills.
Baldy shows film showing it wasn't entirely on Eli -- I argued before Baldy showed those plays that it was the aftermath of those plays that were the issue. They took the wind out of Eli's sails and he played very tentatively and was pressing after each of them for the rest of that set of downs.
So the question becomes -- is it better to sit Jones and let him develop behind what is essentially a losing mentality - or try to change that mentality by pulling out part of the problem and putting Jones in and seeing if he can change the mentality with his play?
Hey -- either way you look at it, the intentions had not been fulfilled. Eli knew he had to have a fast start to keep Jones off the field -- and it didn't go that way. Hence Jones will be on the field now. We will see everything we need to see on Sunday. If Jones gives them a spark with his play and athleticism and the offense performs better with him under center - then Jones is the better QB right now even with the inevitable growing pains he will have, and you go with and develop him on the battlefield.
You are right it is not what they planned - it is not ideal - but it is the best action to take given what was taking place.
Are we?
Are we?
No were not, the only way Eli goes back in is because of injury. Daniel Jones is the starter for the next 30 games minimum
When your defense is looks to be bottom 5 and badly coached let the kid play. The team was not making the playoffs with Eli and he isn’t coming back so why would he play the rest of the year. If they are 0-6 or 1-5 we can pray for Chase Young. There are A LOT OF teams who will need a QB high. Miami for sure
The goal should absolutely be to absorb some ups/downs in 2019, show some progression in his development, and determine whether or not we can rely on the guy to start in 2020 or not.
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With the agony and ecstasy title, what agony?
Secondly, the KC plan? What about this team reminds you of that play off Team
Thirdly, if you see an original plan is not working, and you stick with it despite your # 6 quarterback in the wings, that would be cause for concern
Fourthly, It s probable this coaching staff believes Eli s lack of athleticism has been holding them back, and Jones gives them the better chance to win.
Eli has been given more opportunities to remain a starter than any other NFL quarterback in recent memory who has had 1 winning season 7 years and is 8-25 in his last 33 starts.
These posts that continue to bemoan his demotion after 2 games have become annoying.
It s about what s best for the New York Giants, not Eli.
A woman called into HCR this morning and was literally screaming about how the Giants did Eli dirty.
So some are certainly in agony over the reigns being handed over
I don’t equate nonobjective hysteria to agony
You are right it is not what they planned - it is not ideal - but it is the best action to take given what was taking place.
Your last point is arguable. Not giving Jones the best chance to succeed rather a potentially "no chance to succeed" might not be the "best course of action."