But the Giants never did him any favors. Had a coach who openly hated him, a running back whose best days were behind him, a crumbling OL, and horrid receivers.
But the Giants never did him any favors. Had a coach who openly hated him, a running back whose best days were behind him, a crumbling OL, and horrid receivers.
They did hire Fassel specifically with the original mandate of fixing Brown.
Thought some may enjoy this portion of the interview. Im sure some on here are aware of this story, but I wasnt. Dave Brown Draft Story - ( New Window )
Thought some may enjoy this portion of the interview. Im sure some on here are aware of this story, but I wasnt. Dave Brown Draft Story - ( New Window )
But the Giants never did him any favors. Had a coach who openly hated him, a running back whose best days were behind him, a crumbling OL, and horrid receivers.
Reeves hated Brown? He once said that he was never more sure of a QB than he was with Brown, which Is why they let Phil go.
Maybe he hated him later?
RE: RE: Maybe Brown never would have been any good Â
But the Giants never did him any favors. Had a coach who openly hated him, a running back whose best days were behind him, a crumbling OL, and horrid receivers.
Reeves hated Brown? He once said that he was never more sure of a QB than he was with Brown, which Is why they let Phil go.
Was not familiar with the details of when Brown was drafted. Also interesting to hear him talk about his experience with the Giants, specifically how he came from a very open, attacking system in college where he had a lot of autonomy to a run-heavy offense with the Giants where he was not allowed to make any adjustments and faced a lot of 3rd and long situations.
My memory as a kid of watching those Giants teams was exactly that - run on first down, run on second down, usually get fucking nothing and then throw on third and punt.
Brown is very definitely not saying he would have been great in another system but interesting nonetheless.
As I recall. Remember, he pushed GY to bring in his boy Tommy Maddox that year, and only Maddox's disastrous outing in Philly kept him from taking the job
RE: Dave Brown is in the financial industry now... Â
and has a job where he travels often like me. I have seen him at Newark Airport three times now in the past year including last week.
A buddy of mine worked with Brown for a stretch in his post football career...described him as a good due, who did harbor some lingering bitterness over how hated he is by some Giants fans.
Which I can understand. We as fans get passionate about our teams and their players, good and bad...I try to keep some perspective.
As the saying goes, do you realize how good a guy has to be just to suck in the NFL?
I try to remind myself of that in baseball. The best player I ever played against as a kid dominated in high school and college. Was drafted by the Cubs, and never made it past AA.
RE: RE: Dave Brown is in the financial industry now... Â
and has a job where he travels often like me. I have seen him at Newark Airport three times now in the past year including last week.
A buddy of mine worked with Brown for a stretch in his post football career...described him as a good due, who did harbor some lingering bitterness over how hated he is by some Giants fans.
Which I can understand. We as fans get passionate about our teams and their players, good and bad...I try to keep some perspective.
As the saying goes, do you realize how good a guy has to be just to suck in the NFL?
Brown also claimed that Fassel lied to him about staying with the team as Kannell's backup in '98, shook his hand on it at Sehorns wedding if he agreed to a lower salary. The next day he gots cut. Either JF was bullshitting him or he and Accorsi weren't on the same page.
Say what you will about his talent as a starter but Brown showed up and played ball for us every Sunday on some horrid Giant teams with zero to work with aside from Hampton. He's always had my respect
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Brown was tough I will give him that but I thought he was a lousy QB Â
As he explained in the interview, Reeve's crappy conservative offense hamstrung him...run run, pass on 3rd and long. Rinse lather repeat.
Although Reeve's did run the flea flicker at least a few times a year, something we rarely if ever saw under Coughlin or Macadouche or Shurmer so far
I try to remind myself of that in baseball. The best player I ever played against as a kid dominated in high school and college. Was drafted by the Cubs, and never made it past AA.
Yup. One summer for our travel baseball team when I was 16 we picked up a kid for the next tournament who just dominated every time he took the mound. Also remember him convincing me to try chewing tobacco for the first time with him after one of those games.
Kids name was Carl Pavano
RE: Interesting story behind Brown being drafted by Giants Â
Thought some may enjoy this portion of the interview. Im sure some on here are aware of this story, but I wasnt. Dave Brown Draft Story - ( New Window )
That was quite a story
I wonder if in his emails to Daniel Jones he told him not to take the Â
As he explained in the interview, Reeve's crappy conservative offense hamstrung him...run run, pass on 3rd and long. Rinse lather repeat.
Although Reeve's did run the flea flicker at least a few times a year, something we rarely if ever saw under Coughlin or Macadouche or Shurmer so far
He was a tough guy who didn't have huge talent, but maximized what he had to a 9 or 10 year long career. I was far more annoyed by Kerry Collins, who had enormous talent but a ten cent head.
He was a tough guy who didn't have huge talent, but maximized what he had to a 9 or 10 year long career. I was far more annoyed by Kerry Collins, who had enormous talent but a ten cent head.
If Collins had a more noteworthy career he'd be just popular enough to be regarded as one of the most disappointing QB prospects of all time relative to his potential and his skillset.
He was a tough guy who didn't have huge talent, but maximized what he had to a 9 or 10 year long career. I was far more annoyed by Kerry Collins, who had enormous talent but a ten cent head.
I've had a ton of respect for Brown's efforts with us but even with his shortcomings Kerry was still a far better overall QB than Dave ever was.
And it’s not close. Kerry Collins may be an a-hole but he was a real
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
I'm amazed any fan could have preferred Brown to Collins Â
But Collins didn't get what he could have out of his potential. He's the most physically talented quarterback the Giants have had in my life, and that includes Simms. Just unreal throwing ability. But far from a great player.
But Collins didn't get what he could have out of his potential. He's the most physically talented quarterback the Giants have had in my life, and that includes Simms. Just unreal throwing ability. But far from a great player.
Collins biggest weakness was falling apart like a wet cardboard box under pass rush pressure. I've always thought Bill Romanowksy breaking his jaw early in his career made him gunshy from taking hits after that
And it’s not close. Kerry Collins may be an a-hole but he was a real
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
And it’s not close. Kerry Collins may be an a-hole but he was a real
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Nope. Tommy Maddox was far worse than Brown.
He was never a starter on the Giants. He came in after Brown had started a game.
RE: I'm amazed any fan could have preferred Brown to Collins Â
And it’s not close. Kerry Collins may be an a-hole but he was a real
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Dave Brown exemplified the term a deer in headlights.
And it’s not close. Kerry Collins may be an a-hole but he was a real
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Dave Brown exemplified the term a deer in headlights.
And happy feet.
And seeing ghosts.
And bird-dogging.
Etc.
Nice guy but just a horrible fit here.
To be fair to him, given the quality of the coaching & game plans & Olines & WRs on the mid 90's Giant teams, almost no QB could've succeeded
Really impressed by Dave Brown there too. The guy is 20 years removed from the game with no broadcast experience and that was one of the clearest breakdowns of a player/situation that I've seen on TV.
I don't think Brown would ever be good, but the Giants did him no favor. A deterioating line, a back ran into the ground, and the shittiest receiving corps one could imagine. Remember when Calloway was on the verge of being our all time leading receiver? The giants went a long time with bad receivers, way longer than bad qbs
I don't think Brown would ever be good, but the Giants did him no favor. A deterioating line, a back ran into the ground, and the shittiest receiving corps one could imagine. Remember when Calloway was on the verge of being our all time leading receiver? The giants went a long time with bad receivers, way longer than bad qbs
Reeves and Young did him no favors with the WRs. Reeves didn't like McCaffrey and the only WR I recall them drafting was Thomas Lewis, until Toomer was picked in 1996.
I know someone who worked with Brown in finance. Â
She was not a football fan at all and it took her several months to figure out that he was "famous"--which is kind of a tell that he's cool, since he didn't go around flaunting it. Anyway, she said he's a great guy. It's too bad it didn't work out for him; he tried.
Very true but kind of ironic to this thread that it was also when BBI was at it's best
Right. BBI in the mid to late ‘90s was at its best. It had a more rugged individualism feel. There was a Wild West element, but we also did a good job policing ourselves and each other.
Now it’s more corporate. More PC. And I’m certainly not a fan of the moderators. It’s quite laughable the way they operate with their double standards and subjectivity.
Collins makes your list of dark age QBs? He was the first step OUT of that era lol
Remember 41-0 against the Vikings?
I hear you. I am a lifelong PSU fan so I was glad he arrived to at least bring some stability to the position. Collins was talented but I never thought he got the most out of his game...
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Totally agree. He was surrounded by the worst receivers in Giants history, a horrible OL and a pig headed coach. Thomas Lewis himself must have dropped half a dozen touchdowns. One thing I noticed about Brown when he was here is that he was very fast and he could throw accurately on the run. Had Reeves used him a way that he could extend plays and give the dogshit receivers time to possibly get open Brown may have been more successful. Instead Reeves insisted he stay in the pocket and either get slammed or run some stupid draw play. By the time Fassel got here he had nothing left.
RE: RE: I always thought Brown got a raw deal here Â
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Totally agree. He was surrounded by the worst receivers in Giants history, a horrible OL and a pig headed coach. Thomas Lewis himself must have dropped half a dozen touchdowns. One thing I noticed about Brown when he was here is that he was very fast and he could throw accurately on the run. Had Reeves used him a way that he could extend plays and give the dogshit receivers time to possibly get open Brown may have been more successful. Instead Reeves insisted he stay in the pocket and either get slammed or run some stupid draw play. By the time Fassel got here he had nothing left.
Simms had some pretty bad WRs too. Dave Brown was just a bad QB. He didn’t do anything well.
RE: RE: RE: I always thought Brown got a raw deal here Â
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Totally agree. He was surrounded by the worst receivers in Giants history, a horrible OL and a pig headed coach. Thomas Lewis himself must have dropped half a dozen touchdowns. One thing I noticed about Brown when he was here is that he was very fast and he could throw accurately on the run. Had Reeves used him a way that he could extend plays and give the dogshit receivers time to possibly get open Brown may have been more successful. Instead Reeves insisted he stay in the pocket and either get slammed or run some stupid draw play. By the time Fassel got here he had nothing left.
Simms had some pretty bad WRs too. Dave Brown was just a bad QB. He didn’t do anything well.
Brown played behind one of the worst OLs of my lifetime...not just the Giants, but the entire NFL. This also resulted in Hampton getting run in to the ground and ruined. Brown's interview was a good listen to re-think your opinion of him a little. He came from a Spurrier coached offense where he not only could, but was expected to, audible and change plays based on what he saw. Reeves 100% forbade Brown from changing any plays. For example, if they called a play to run through the G-T gap and he saw a blitz in that hole, or he saw a coverage that would blow up a pass play, he had to run the play as called.
Brown played behind one of the worst OLs of my lifetime...not just the Giants, but the entire NFL. This also resulted in Hampton getting run in to the ground and ruined. Brown's interview was a good listen to re-think your opinion of him a little. He came from a Spurrier coached offense where he not only could, but was expected to, audible and change plays based on what he saw. Reeves 100% forbade Brown from changing any plays. For example, if they called a play to run through the G-T gap and he saw a blitz in that hole, or he saw a coverage that would blow up a pass play, he had to run the play as called.
I'll say this to your point - Reeves was the absolute wrong fit for Brown. Very old School and rigid. I want to say, if memory serves me correctly, that Elway and he did not get along in Denver. It was a very strained relationship. And for many years, Elways dragged that ordinary team to their absolute maximum in terms of production.
And Young is certainly to blame because he really started to lose his fastball after the '91 draft, especially in terms of finding skill position players. And the cap to him was like Japanese. He just couldn't figure it out.
However, I don't think Brown really had the goods. Spurrier did a great job of molding him. And very likely hit his ceiling at Duke...
RE: RE: RE: I always thought Brown got a raw deal here Â
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Totally agree. He was surrounded by the worst receivers in Giants history, a horrible OL and a pig headed coach. Thomas Lewis himself must have dropped half a dozen touchdowns. One thing I noticed about Brown when he was here is that he was very fast and he could throw accurately on the run. Had Reeves used him a way that he could extend plays and give the dogshit receivers time to possibly get open Brown may have been more successful. Instead Reeves insisted he stay in the pocket and either get slammed or run some stupid draw play. By the time Fassel got here he had nothing left.
Simms had some pretty bad WRs too. Dave Brown was just a bad QB. He didn’t do anything well.
Are you seriously comparing Simms' offense to what Brown had to deal with ? Simms had Bavarro and Ingrahm to throw to, he had good backs and he had a better OL than probably exists in football in 2019. Even with all that its not as if Simms was asked to put up a whole lot of points. Back then we had the Living Legend himself running our D.
Had 3 seasons in Arizona where he also struggled when called upon to start. Maybe it’s true that Reeves was too rigid but he also was just not that great, though he did have a good run at the end of 94 throwing to Calloway
Had 3 seasons in Arizona where he also struggled when called upon to start. Maybe it’s true that Reeves was too rigid but he also was just not that great, though he did have a good run at the end of 94 throwing to Calloway
He was done by the time he left the Giants. When he did leave he had the choice of going to the Raiders or Arizona. Arizona's QB was Jake Plummer who wasn't going anywhere. The Raiders QB was Jeff George who was a ticking time bomb. If Brown wanted to start the logical choice would have been the Raiders but he picked Arizona. I remember posting on BBI at the time that it was a bad choice. In hindsight I think Brown knew he had little left at that point and was just picking up a paycheck.
Bavaro wasn’t on the Giants until 1985 and Ingram was a rookie in 1987.
I’m not sure why you are defending Dave Brown. Simms played for Reeves in 1993, threw for 3,000 yards, and was named to the Pro Bowl, & the team was 11-5.
Dave Brown had the same set of WRs, RBs, and TE as Simms. And in 1994 he threw 12 TDs and 18 INTs.
Dave Brown was just plain bad as a QB.
for the record here, remember meeting and talking at some length in Â
Albany with Kerry Collins and a few others from BBI. He was an “ordinary” guy who talked with a sense of humor, understood giants fans, and where he stood with fans.
Unfortunately he was a great athletic talent with an unbelievable arm that people actually gasped about when seeing his throws up close, who had an addiction to at least alcohol for what we know. I hope he is doing OK now. But he had a “head” although it was in love with his arm, and i guess clouded. Be well Kerry and thanks
Don't know why any team wanted to draft this guy... Â
He had an average 54.8% completion rate at Duke and it declined over his three years. He threw for 42 TDs and 33 INTs... BFD.
He continued his college success in the NFL with almost the exact same completion percentage (54.6%). And he was an interception machine with 58 (against only 44TDs).
He certainly appears to be an articulate middle-aged guy, but there's no talking around his QB skills.
Bavaro wasn’t on the Giants until 1985 and Ingram was a rookie in 1987.
I’m not sure why you are defending Dave Brown. Simms played for Reeves in 1993, threw for 3,000 yards, and was named to the Pro Bowl, & the team was 11-5.
Dave Brown had the same set of WRs, RBs, and TE as Simms. And in 1994 he threw 12 TDs and 18 INTs.
Dave Brown was just plain bad as a QB.
Brown only threw 16 INTs that year. But that's neither here nor there.
It doesn't seem like there's much to learn from comparing Simms' '93 season, when he was a veteran QB with a world of experience with Brown's '94 season, which was effectively his intro to the NFL (he threw 7 passes in 91 and 0 passes in 92).
Just listend to this...interesting I never heard the story. Â
give us the watch and jewelz report pls
They did hire Fassel specifically with the original mandate of fixing Brown.
Dave Brown Draft Story - ( New Window )
give us the watch and jewelz report pls
he was NOT wearing a Superbowl ring...
That’s an incredible story.
Reeves hated Brown? He once said that he was never more sure of a QB than he was with Brown, which Is why they let Phil go.
Maybe he hated him later?
Quote:
But the Giants never did him any favors. Had a coach who openly hated him, a running back whose best days were behind him, a crumbling OL, and horrid receivers.
Reeves hated Brown? He once said that he was never more sure of a QB than he was with Brown, which Is why they let Phil go.
Maybe he hated him later?
Yeah. After he saw Brown play ;>)
My memory as a kid of watching those Giants teams was exactly that - run on first down, run on second down, usually get fucking nothing and then throw on third and punt.
Brown is very definitely not saying he would have been great in another system but interesting nonetheless.
A buddy of mine worked with Brown for a stretch in his post football career...described him as a good due, who did harbor some lingering bitterness over how hated he is by some Giants fans.
Which I can understand. We as fans get passionate about our teams and their players, good and bad...I try to keep some perspective.
As the saying goes, do you realize how good a guy has to be just to suck in the NFL?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PKr9NN8mLM - ( New Window )
Quote:
and has a job where he travels often like me. I have seen him at Newark Airport three times now in the past year including last week.
A buddy of mine worked with Brown for a stretch in his post football career...described him as a good due, who did harbor some lingering bitterness over how hated he is by some Giants fans.
Which I can understand. We as fans get passionate about our teams and their players, good and bad...I try to keep some perspective.
As the saying goes, do you realize how good a guy has to be just to suck in the NFL?
Brown also claimed that Fassel lied to him about staying with the team as Kannell's backup in '98, shook his hand on it at Sehorns wedding if he agreed to a lower salary. The next day he gots cut. Either JF was bullshitting him or he and Accorsi weren't on the same page.
Say what you will about his talent as a starter but Brown showed up and played ball for us every Sunday on some horrid Giant teams with zero to work with aside from Hampton. He's always had my respect
As he explained in the interview, Reeve's crappy conservative offense hamstrung him...run run, pass on 3rd and long. Rinse lather repeat.
Although Reeve's did run the flea flicker at least a few times a year, something we rarely if ever saw under Coughlin or Macadouche or Shurmer so far
Yup. One summer for our travel baseball team when I was 16 we picked up a kid for the next tournament who just dominated every time he took the mound. Also remember him convincing me to try chewing tobacco for the first time with him after one of those games.
Kids name was Carl Pavano
That was quite a story
Quote:
I wasn't too big of a fan of his as a player.
As he explained in the interview, Reeve's crappy conservative offense hamstrung him...run run, pass on 3rd and long. Rinse lather repeat.
Although Reeve's did run the flea flicker at least a few times a year, something we rarely if ever saw under Coughlin or Macadouche or Shurmer so far
OBJ threw two TDs last season.
+1
Great interview
It really was
That entire interview was fantastic
I've had a ton of respect for Brown's efforts with us but even with his shortcomings Kerry was still a far better overall QB than Dave ever was.
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Collins biggest weakness was falling apart like a wet cardboard box under pass rush pressure. I've always thought Bill Romanowksy breaking his jaw early in his career made him gunshy from taking hits after that
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Nope. Tommy Maddox was far worse than Brown.
Quote:
And it’s not close. Kerry Collins may be an a-hole but he was a real
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Nope. Tommy Maddox was far worse than Brown.
He was never a starter on the Giants. He came in after Brown had started a game.
Me either. Brown never cracked the 300 yard barrier.
That was fantastic. Always thought he was a good dude.
Here you go
Brown trucks Deion - ( New Window )
Hmmmm ....
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Dave Brown exemplified the term a deer in headlights.
And happy feet.
And seeing ghosts.
And bird-dogging.
Etc.
Nice guy but just a horrible fit here.
Very true but kind of ironic to this thread that it was also when BBI was at it's best
Quote:
And it’s not close. Kerry Collins may be an a-hole but he was a real
QB. And by starting QB, I mean for an entire season.
Dave Brown somehow started multiple games in multiple seasons. He may be a great person. But as a QB he was complete and utter dog shit. One of the worst decisions ever by George Young.
Dave Brown exemplified the term a deer in headlights.
And happy feet.
And seeing ghosts.
And bird-dogging.
Etc.
Nice guy but just a horrible fit here.
To be fair to him, given the quality of the coaching & game plans & Olines & WRs on the mid 90's Giant teams, almost no QB could've succeeded
Collins makes your list of dark age QBs? He was the first step OUT of that era lol
Remember 41-0 against the Vikings?
Reeves and Young did him no favors with the WRs. Reeves didn't like McCaffrey and the only WR I recall them drafting was Thomas Lewis, until Toomer was picked in 1996.
Quote:
Brown, Maddox, Graham, Kanell, Collins...
Very true but kind of ironic to this thread that it was also when BBI was at it's best
Right. BBI in the mid to late ‘90s was at its best. It had a more rugged individualism feel. There was a Wild West element, but we also did a good job policing ourselves and each other.
Now it’s more corporate. More PC. And I’m certainly not a fan of the moderators. It’s quite laughable the way they operate with their double standards and subjectivity.
Quote:
Brown, Maddox, Graham, Kanell, Collins...
Collins makes your list of dark age QBs? He was the first step OUT of that era lol
Remember 41-0 against the Vikings?
I hear you. I am a lifelong PSU fan so I was glad he arrived to at least bring some stability to the position. Collins was talented but I never thought he got the most out of his game...
Me neither. He was always a standup guy. It wasn't his fault that the Giants wasted a supp pick on him.
Quote:
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Totally agree. He was surrounded by the worst receivers in Giants history, a horrible OL and a pig headed coach. Thomas Lewis himself must have dropped half a dozen touchdowns. One thing I noticed about Brown when he was here is that he was very fast and he could throw accurately on the run. Had Reeves used him a way that he could extend plays and give the dogshit receivers time to possibly get open Brown may have been more successful. Instead Reeves insisted he stay in the pocket and either get slammed or run some stupid draw play. By the time Fassel got here he had nothing left.
Simms had some pretty bad WRs too. Dave Brown was just a bad QB. He didn’t do anything well.
Quote:
In comment 14588631 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Totally agree. He was surrounded by the worst receivers in Giants history, a horrible OL and a pig headed coach. Thomas Lewis himself must have dropped half a dozen touchdowns. One thing I noticed about Brown when he was here is that he was very fast and he could throw accurately on the run. Had Reeves used him a way that he could extend plays and give the dogshit receivers time to possibly get open Brown may have been more successful. Instead Reeves insisted he stay in the pocket and either get slammed or run some stupid draw play. By the time Fassel got here he had nothing left.
Simms had some pretty bad WRs too. Dave Brown was just a bad QB. He didn’t do anything well.
Brown played behind one of the worst OLs of my lifetime...not just the Giants, but the entire NFL. This also resulted in Hampton getting run in to the ground and ruined. Brown's interview was a good listen to re-think your opinion of him a little. He came from a Spurrier coached offense where he not only could, but was expected to, audible and change plays based on what he saw. Reeves 100% forbade Brown from changing any plays. For example, if they called a play to run through the G-T gap and he saw a blitz in that hole, or he saw a coverage that would blow up a pass play, he had to run the play as called.
I'll say this to your point - Reeves was the absolute wrong fit for Brown. Very old School and rigid. I want to say, if memory serves me correctly, that Elway and he did not get along in Denver. It was a very strained relationship. And for many years, Elways dragged that ordinary team to their absolute maximum in terms of production.
And Young is certainly to blame because he really started to lose his fastball after the '91 draft, especially in terms of finding skill position players. And the cap to him was like Japanese. He just couldn't figure it out.
However, I don't think Brown really had the goods. Spurrier did a great job of molding him. And very likely hit his ceiling at Duke...
Quote:
In comment 14588631 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I thought played OK; better than he is ever given credit for. Reeves and that ocfense ruined him and ruined what was a promising career for Hampton. Brown was one of the toughest SOBs out there. He got the crap beat out of him every week playing behind what I consider the worst OL I've seen.
Totally agree. He was surrounded by the worst receivers in Giants history, a horrible OL and a pig headed coach. Thomas Lewis himself must have dropped half a dozen touchdowns. One thing I noticed about Brown when he was here is that he was very fast and he could throw accurately on the run. Had Reeves used him a way that he could extend plays and give the dogshit receivers time to possibly get open Brown may have been more successful. Instead Reeves insisted he stay in the pocket and either get slammed or run some stupid draw play. By the time Fassel got here he had nothing left.
Simms had some pretty bad WRs too. Dave Brown was just a bad QB. He didn’t do anything well.
Quote:
Brown, Maddox, Graham, Kanell, Collins...
Collins really doesn't belong in that list with the others...
I know...I addressed that earlier above.
I’m not sure why you are defending Dave Brown. Simms played for Reeves in 1993, threw for 3,000 yards, and was named to the Pro Bowl, & the team was 11-5.
Dave Brown had the same set of WRs, RBs, and TE as Simms. And in 1994 he threw 12 TDs and 18 INTs.
Dave Brown was just plain bad as a QB.
Unfortunately he was a great athletic talent with an unbelievable arm that people actually gasped about when seeing his throws up close, who had an addiction to at least alcohol for what we know. I hope he is doing OK now. But he had a “head” although it was in love with his arm, and i guess clouded. Be well Kerry and thanks
...let alone Round One!
He had an average 54.8% completion rate at Duke and it declined over his three years. He threw for 42 TDs and 33 INTs... BFD.
He continued his college success in the NFL with almost the exact same completion percentage (54.6%). And he was an interception machine with 58 (against only 44TDs).
He certainly appears to be an articulate middle-aged guy, but there's no talking around his QB skills.
I’m not sure why you are defending Dave Brown. Simms played for Reeves in 1993, threw for 3,000 yards, and was named to the Pro Bowl, & the team was 11-5.
Dave Brown had the same set of WRs, RBs, and TE as Simms. And in 1994 he threw 12 TDs and 18 INTs.
Dave Brown was just plain bad as a QB.
Brown only threw 16 INTs that year. But that's neither here nor there.
It doesn't seem like there's much to learn from comparing Simms' '93 season, when he was a veteran QB with a world of experience with Brown's '94 season, which was effectively his intro to the NFL (he threw 7 passes in 91 and 0 passes in 92).