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Crazy Alternate Timeline

Tom in DC : 9/20/2019 12:33 pm
Imagine if you will an alternate timeline where: the Chargers couldn't come to terms with a trade and kept Eli, the Giants drafted Big Ben, and then Pittsburgh drafted Phillip Rivers.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 9/20/2019 12:35 pm : link
Fun game. Giants make the playoffs a couple more times. Win it all in 2010. Ben's only Super Bowl.
Ok, well the girls are hotter in New York  
Motley Two : 9/20/2019 12:35 pm : link
So Ben's numbers would have been larger?
Okay I imagined it.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 9/20/2019 12:35 pm : link
Now what?
Crazier alternative headline is what if we beat that lame duck  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/20/2019 12:36 pm : link
Cowboys team, and didn't get the second overall pick for Saquon.
crazier would be getting Zack martin instead of OBJ  
GMAN4LIFE : 9/20/2019 12:40 pm : link
.
RE: Crazier alternative headline is what if we beat that lame duck  
lax counsel : 9/20/2019 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14589641 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Cowboys team, and didn't get the second overall pick for Saquon.


If they Giants got the third overall pick, they still would have ended up with SB. No one (other than the Browns) was taking him at #2 overall.
RE: Crazier alternative headline is what if we beat that lame duck  
Jim in Tampa : 9/20/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14589641 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Cowboys team, and didn't get the second overall pick for Saquon.

Then the Jets would have taken Darnold at 2 instead of 3, leaving Barkley for the Giants.
RE: Crazier alternative headline is what if we beat that lame duck  
figgy2989 : 9/20/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14589641 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Cowboys team, and didn't get the second overall pick for Saquon.


Even crazier, what if the Giants had taken Darnold with that second pick, does he still make out with teenage girls and get mono?
RE: ....  
djm : 9/20/2019 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14589636 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Fun game. Giants make the playoffs a couple more times. Win it all in 2010. Ben's only Super Bowl.


Distinct possibility.


There are many QBs who were and are better than Eli was. That doesn’t mean the giants win two Super Bowls or even one super bowl with that better, or more prolific qb. It’s a funny game and league, especially come January.
What if Plax doesn't shoot himself?  
giants#1 : 9/20/2019 12:49 pm : link
Do we repeat in 2008?

What if Snee/Diehl don't age prematurely and play at a high level as long as say Jason Peters?

RE: ....  
giants#1 : 9/20/2019 12:50 pm : link
In comment 14589636 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Fun game. Giants make the playoffs a couple more times. Win it all in 2010. Ben's only Super Bowl.


I think Ben crumbles with the NYC nightlife and doesn't become a HOF QB.
RE: crazier would be getting Zack martin instead of OBJ  
Nine-Tails : 9/20/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14589646 GMAN4LIFE said:
Quote:
.


Or Aaron Donald
RE: Ok, well the girls are hotter in New York  
HoustonGiant : 9/20/2019 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14589637 Motley Two said:
Quote:
So Ben's numbers would have been larger?


Or his sentence longer....
The crazier timeline  
Matt in SGS : 9/20/2019 1:04 pm : link
is what happens if the Giants had been forced to keep Rivers? I know Ernie likes to tell stories, but the idea that he drafted Rivers on a "hunch" that the Chargers really wanted him and they'd do the trade afterwards is endlessly fascinating because of the risks involved.

Accorsi rightfully says that unlike the NBA, the NFL doesn't have enforceable rules that you can draft a player for another team and deal him.

So the story goes, Accorsi is jostling with AJ Smith talking trade, and not coming to an agreement. However, in the days leading up to the draft, intermediaries tell him that he really wants Rivers. So when the pick comes up for Accorsi, and while Big Ben is 2nd target, he drafts Rivers anyway, as a signal to the Chargers that he's ready to deal.

I can't for the life of me believe that the GM of the Giants, with a franchise QB being picked at #4 made that selection and hoped that AJ Smith wouldn't screw him. I have to believe that there was a deal that was actually worked out. But what happens if the Chargers decide to screw over the Giants. Now they go out and draft a QB that they didn't want in Rivers, missing out on Eli and blowing getting Ben who was there for them. If I was Mara, I'd have fired Accorsi that day.
I'd be willing to bet  
an_idol_mind : 9/20/2019 1:06 pm : link
that Roethlisberger's history of sexual assault gets a lot more scrutiny in New York than it did in Pittsburgh. My bet is that he flames out and the Giants wind up having to pick a new coach and quarterback within a few years.
Ben would have never survived the NY market fame  
bradshaw44 : 9/20/2019 1:08 pm : link
and media. We would have been on a QB hunt a few years later after we either traded or cut Ben due to outside the game behavior. Just my guess.

I actually think each of those players ended up in the perfect spot for themselves.
Who do we take in the first round the next year?  
ltbeatsall56 : 9/20/2019 1:29 pm : link
Now that they keep the 2005 pick who do they go with? Merriman? Derrick Johnson? Roddy White? Can't remember what the needs were back then but pretty sure LB and WR were up there.

While we're at it, what if Chargers took Eli and Accorsi can't work out deal for the guy he likes so he goes BPA: Sean Taylor, and goes QB in the next year: Aaron Rodgers.
RE: The crazier timeline  
jcn56 : 9/20/2019 1:34 pm : link
In comment 14589697 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
is what happens if the Giants had been forced to keep Rivers? I know Ernie likes to tell stories, but the idea that he drafted Rivers on a "hunch" that the Chargers really wanted him and they'd do the trade afterwards is endlessly fascinating because of the risks involved.

Accorsi rightfully says that unlike the NBA, the NFL doesn't have enforceable rules that you can draft a player for another team and deal him.

So the story goes, Accorsi is jostling with AJ Smith talking trade, and not coming to an agreement. However, in the days leading up to the draft, intermediaries tell him that he really wants Rivers. So when the pick comes up for Accorsi, and while Big Ben is 2nd target, he drafts Rivers anyway, as a signal to the Chargers that he's ready to deal.

I can't for the life of me believe that the GM of the Giants, with a franchise QB being picked at #4 made that selection and hoped that AJ Smith wouldn't screw him. I have to believe that there was a deal that was actually worked out. But what happens if the Chargers decide to screw over the Giants. Now they go out and draft a QB that they didn't want in Rivers, missing out on Eli and blowing getting Ben who was there for them. If I was Mara, I'd have fired Accorsi that day.


No you wouldn't, because if you were Mara you would have been involved in the whole crazy scheme from the jump.
And on the topic of alternate timelines  
jcn56 : 9/20/2019 1:36 pm : link
What if Gregg Williams had become TC's first DC instead of Tim Lewis? What if Mara had agreed to pony up that extra cash?

Do TC and Williams co-exist? Does Williams leave for a HC spot? Do the Giants get caught up in BountyGate?
my favorite alternate timeline  
Greg from LI : 9/20/2019 1:42 pm : link
is the one where, in the 1984 USFL draft, George Young drafts Reggie White instead of Gary Zimmerman.

Now, this does mean Mark Collins is not a Giant, but still - LT and Reggie White, in their prime, on the same defense.
RE: RE: The crazier timeline  
Matt in SGS : 9/20/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14589744 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14589697 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


is what happens if the Giants had been forced to keep Rivers? I know Ernie likes to tell stories, but the idea that he drafted Rivers on a "hunch" that the Chargers really wanted him and they'd do the trade afterwards is endlessly fascinating because of the risks involved.

Accorsi rightfully says that unlike the NBA, the NFL doesn't have enforceable rules that you can draft a player for another team and deal him.

So the story goes, Accorsi is jostling with AJ Smith talking trade, and not coming to an agreement. However, in the days leading up to the draft, intermediaries tell him that he really wants Rivers. So when the pick comes up for Accorsi, and while Big Ben is 2nd target, he drafts Rivers anyway, as a signal to the Chargers that he's ready to deal.

I can't for the life of me believe that the GM of the Giants, with a franchise QB being picked at #4 made that selection and hoped that AJ Smith wouldn't screw him. I have to believe that there was a deal that was actually worked out. But what happens if the Chargers decide to screw over the Giants. Now they go out and draft a QB that they didn't want in Rivers, missing out on Eli and blowing getting Ben who was there for them. If I was Mara, I'd have fired Accorsi that day.



No you wouldn't, because if you were Mara you would have been involved in the whole crazy scheme from the jump.


Fair point. But Mara might still throw him under the bus.
Happy how it worked out  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/20/2019 2:04 pm : link
I actually want Big Ben for the Giants as I was really impressed when I saw him at Miami of Ohio. I thought TC would prefer him as his mobility was something he had with Brunell.

All three had great talent and were drafted to teams with one big commonality. All three had Very Good/Great established head coaches who emphasized strong OL's and running games and believed in balance and protecting the QB. They were all going to be very good.

Ben had the best team early on. I think what would be interesting is the back half of each's career. Whichever of the three ended up with the Giants would have really struggled the last 6-7 years imo. So maybe Ben would be the one getting all the criticism and Eli would be enjoying the sun.
Roethlisberger  
Giantophile : 9/20/2019 2:28 pm : link
won 2 super bowls....
PATS...  
jonnyess : 9/20/2019 2:33 pm : link
would have had their 19-0 season vs. anyone except Eli & the NYG that year.

And we call their fanbase insufferable now???!!
RE: Roethlisberger  
Greg from LI : 9/20/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14589826 Giantophile said:
Quote:
won 2 super bowls....


True, although he contributed virtually nothing to the first one.
Seems  
Photoguy : 9/20/2019 2:59 pm : link
to me if the Chargers wanted Rivers so bad, then why Eli with the #1? Doesn't make sense to me.
RE: Who do we take in the first round the next year?  
Gmen88 : 9/20/2019 3:15 pm : link
In comment 14589736 ltbeatsall56 said:
Quote:
Now that they keep the 2005 pick who do they go with? Merriman? Derrick Johnson? Roddy White? Can't remember what the needs were back then but pretty sure LB and WR were up there.

While we're at it, what if Chargers took Eli and Accorsi can't work out deal for the guy he likes so he goes BPA: Sean Taylor, and goes QB in the next year: Aaron Rodgers.


Funnily enough I remember saying to a buddy "man I really wish we had our pick to get Antrel Rolle" He was gone by the time we picked but still.
RE: RE: Roethlisberger  
Tuckrule : 9/20/2019 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14589837 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14589826 Giantophile said:


Quote:


won 2 super bowls....



True, although he contributed virtually nothing to the first one.


The tackle!
Even crazier, what if  
smshmth8690 : 9/20/2019 11:27 pm : link
Parcells retired right after SB25, and George Young makes Bill Belichick Head Coach....
RE: Even crazier, what if  
short lease : 9/21/2019 8:26 am : link
In comment 14590273 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
Parcells retired right after SB25, and George Young makes Bill Belichick Head Coach....


Then drafts Tom Brady ...
RE: RE: ....  
mrvax : 9/21/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14589673 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 14589636 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


Fun game. Giants make the playoffs a couple more times. Win it all in 2010. Ben's only Super Bowl.



Distinct possibility.


There are many QBs who were and are better than Eli was. That doesn’t mean the giants win two Super Bowls or even one super bowl with that better, or more prolific qb. It’s a funny game and league, especially come January.


Very true DJM. Didn't Ben receive a participation trophy in his rookie season for a Steelers SB win?
RE: RE: Roethlisberger  
mrvax : 9/21/2019 6:10 pm : link
In comment 14589837 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14589826 Giantophile said:


Quote:


won 2 super bowls....



True, although he contributed virtually nothing to the first one.


True. The Steelers won that year in spite of Ben's performance.
RE: The crazier timeline  
Bramton1 : 9/21/2019 9:28 pm : link
In comment 14589697 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
is what happens if the Giants had been forced to keep Rivers? I know Ernie likes to tell stories, but the idea that he drafted Rivers on a "hunch" that the Chargers really wanted him and they'd do the trade afterwards is endlessly fascinating because of the risks involved.

Accorsi rightfully says that unlike the NBA, the NFL doesn't have enforceable rules that you can draft a player for another team and deal him.

So the story goes, Accorsi is jostling with AJ Smith talking trade, and not coming to an agreement. However, in the days leading up to the draft, intermediaries tell him that he really wants Rivers. So when the pick comes up for Accorsi, and while Big Ben is 2nd target, he drafts Rivers anyway, as a signal to the Chargers that he's ready to deal.

I can't for the life of me believe that the GM of the Giants, with a franchise QB being picked at #4 made that selection and hoped that AJ Smith wouldn't screw him. I have to believe that there was a deal that was actually worked out. But what happens if the Chargers decide to screw over the Giants. Now they go out and draft a QB that they didn't want in Rivers, missing out on Eli and blowing getting Ben who was there for them. If I was Mara, I'd have fired Accorsi that day.


That is crazy, because it's wrong. Accorsi got word from somebody (a reporter, perhaps) that AJ Smith would call the Giants with 11 minutes, or 7 minutes left in the Giants' turn. He was considering a trade offer from the Browns to swap picks. Accorsi considered this, because he figured Rothlisberger would still be available. But ultimately, he passed on the offer. Smith called when he was supposed to. He wanted Osi from the Giants. Accorsi said no and offered the 2005 first round pick instead. And the Giants picked Rivers for the Chargers and then they submitted the trade to the league office.

The better question would have been if the league had disallowed the trade. The league is OK with teams trading upcoming picks, and they are OF with teams trading players they just drafted. When they are not OK with is one team telling another team who to draft so they can then make a trade. And I believe that was a legitimate worry for Accorsi.
I know Rivers was the third QB on the Giants list  
BrettNYG10 : 9/26/2019 12:29 pm : link
But does anyone know the drop off? Like was Eli #1 on the entire board, Fitz (for arguments sake) #2, Gallery #3, Ben #4, and then Rivers like #20?
RE: ....  
arcarsenal : 9/26/2019 12:43 pm : link
In comment 14589636 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Fun game. Giants make the playoffs a couple more times. Win it all in 2010. Ben's only Super Bowl.


You still only would have been like 6 years old.
RE: RE: Crazier alternative headline is what if we beat that lame duck  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/26/2019 1:23 pm : link
In comment 14589654 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14589641 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


Cowboys team, and didn't get the second overall pick for Saquon.


Then the Jets would have taken Darnold at 2 instead of 3, leaving Barkley for the Giants.

Hard to say for sure that the Colts trade out of #2 if they're there instead of #3, or that the Jets would have met what may have been a higher price to go to #2. It's entirely possible that the Colts could have taken Barkley at #2, leaving the Giants with a choice of Darnold, Nelson, or Chubb at #3 (and the thinking is that they would have gone with Chubb there).
How about Plax doesn't fucking shoot himself?  
x meadowlander : 9/26/2019 2:36 pm : link
I strongly believe that bullet cost the Giants at least one more Super Bowl.

Not only did it wreck 08', it forced the Giants to draft wideouts they should have never needed.

Instead of Hakeem Nicks and Ramses Barden, could have focused on Linebacker, OL.
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