A sobering but realistic description of the situation
We just have to be realistic about expectations here. Jones isn't the next Dan Marino. This is a process. The good news is that we've finally started the process.
please stop with the reliance on stats to come to a conclusion. The Bucs defense is average at best. They played SF at home and the 49ers offense was struggling and turned the ball over some. Later they just reigned things in and let the Bucs screw up on their own.
The Panthers had chance after chance and Newton was beyond awful. If he could hit the broadside of a barn the Panthers would have torched the Bucs defense. The Bucs after awhile sold out on CM because they knew Newton couldn't beat them with his feet or with his arm.
please stop with the reliance on stats to come to a conclusion. The Bucs defense is average at best. They played SF at home and the 49ers offense was struggling and turned the ball over some. Later they just reigned things in and let the Bucs screw up on their own.
The Panthers had chance after chance and Newton was beyond awful. If he could hit the broadside of a barn the Panthers would have torched the Bucs defense. The Bucs after awhile sold out on CM because they knew Newton couldn't beat them with his feet or with his arm.
I didn't see all of the Bucs game, but what I saw was a very disruptive defense. Granted, both teams they were facing were struggling, but this defense is playing much better than it did last year when it was near dead last. Will that continue? Too early to tell.
please stop with the reliance on stats to come to a conclusion. The Bucs defense is average at best. They played SF at home and the 49ers offense was struggling and turned the ball over some. Later they just reigned things in and let the Bucs screw up on their own.
The Panthers had chance after chance and Newton was beyond awful. If he could hit the broadside of a barn the Panthers would have torched the Bucs defense. The Bucs after awhile sold out on CM because they knew Newton couldn't beat them with his feet or with his arm.
I didn't see all of the Bucs game, but what I saw was a very disruptive defense. Granted, both teams they were facing were struggling, but this defense is playing much better than it did last year when it was near dead last. Will that continue? Too early to tell.
I got that and true about last year but, it was obvious they felt Newton was no running threat and once his apsses started sailing or crashing into the ground they went hard after the rush and after CM and took their chances with the WR's and TE. Olsen pushing a 1000 years old (football years) went for 100 and could have had more.
I just have feeling here. Same feeling I had in 2014 THursday night game against the Skins where Gmen offense went off and the defense played better than it had in awhile.
I am really frustrated with how Gettleman and Shurmur built up Peppers as the next great safety and he has been, as you said, invisible. I feel like the two of them were bsing Giant fans to try and make them think they got a great return on Beckham.
And the trashing of Landon Collins was unfair too. He might have not been great, but he was a good in the box guy and at least he was not invisible.
What I'm seeing reminds me of what DG said when he took over which Â
is that he was going to emphasize the development of both lines first. I think he's succeeded to a significant degree in doing that. We'll see where he takes if from there.
I don't think these teams are as bad as those from the 70s Â
I was pretty young then, but what I do remember was that there were a few games each year you thought you had a shot to win, and the rest all felt like pre-determined losses.
Because the league has much more parody now that isn't the same now. But some weeks - like week 1 - felt like the 70s, where they are lining up against a team that by all measures should beat them soundly.
This team doesn't need to win a Superbowl in the next 3-5 years, but they need to start being a tough game for opponents again.
I got roasted about this issue earlier on this site Â
The defense in the last two years is arguably the worst they have EVER fielded in those 65 years.
Only Allie Sherman's absolutely gutted defenses that gave up 72 points to the Redskins in one game in the 1960s is even in the discussion with the absolutely terrible defenses last year and this year so far.
The defense in the last two years is arguably the worst they have EVER fielded in those 65 years.
Only Allie Sherman's absolutely gutted defenses that gave up 72 points to the Redskins in one game in the 1960s is even in the discussion with the absolutely terrible defenses last year and this year so far.
2009
2015
It has been a long time since any real defense was consistently played around these parts. I know it is an offensive league now, but playing the Giants these past seven seasons or so is like half a bye week for the opposition. The Giants do not play defense and the team could not even appropriately block on offense in seasons prior to the last two weeks.
It is sad what the defense has become. I hope this season is the growing pains of a new successful defensive core, but I will have to see it to believe it.
A sobering but realistic description of the situation
We just have to be realistic about expectations here. Jones isn't the next Dan Marino. This is a process. The good news is that we've finally started the process.
Agreed. I hope Jones is spectacular, but we need to temper expectations, especially since it's his first game. I just want to see progress. On defense, we are very young, but I was encouraged by the additional pressure we generated in the second half. I'd also like to see some snaps for Skipper.
It should be interesting how we attack them offensively. Â
The Bucs probably have the best run defense we have faced so far in this young year. They are weak against the pass, but they played two QBs that looked terrible and couldn't make them pay. Hargreaves is very feast or famine, a guy that gets beat but will turn you over. He'll definitely be looking to make some interceptions, hopefully we double move his ass.
The Bucs defense has gone from horrible to number 8! Go figure. I thought we were the ones who picked up so much defensive talent during the offseason with Dexter, Jabrill, Baker, and Ballentine. I guess we may have overrated some of these guys.....for now at least.,
i went through the 60’s and up. I actually became a giant fan in the Â
late 40’s which when even typing it is sort of terrifying. So eras are hard to compare a truth that is oft repeated when we talk of players, but is probably true for teams as a whole. But the Giants and their fans went from the elation of champions in those eras ( mid/late 50’s,60’s and recent years) to the horrors of the mid late 60’s and entire 70’s and the current years of ineptitude and failure.
We now enter perhaps a new era. It is interesting to me that Phil Simms when drafted in 1980, was received almost as badly as DJones. The shock of using #1 draft choice for an unknown qb from Western Kentucky( yes we had a long lived TE from there, but no other nfl team had ever had one) was received in shocked silence and some boos, almost as bad as DJ’s reception. In this age of media hype and cheer/hate screaming who knows how comparable those receptions could be.
we needed a defense but many giant fans were shocked again in the next year when george young used the #2 on projected lb’er from a little known football school, North Carolina, an acknowledged basketball power because of its NY ties, to draft Lawrence Taylor after George Rodgers, I think went #1.We all know how that turned out despite the quizzical looks of many cognoscenti.
So here we are again. Just remember how long it took (years/seasons/eternity) for players, fans and even the “revered” Bill Parcells to recognize Phil Simms to be the qb of the giants and a 3/4 defense would put the best players we had on the field.
So although it already seems long, only time will tell about DJ and whether the giants can build a frighteningly effective ‘D”. Probably beyond my life time. So I will just try to enjoy the 21st century and BBI, and Directv football pkg that allows me the joy/distress of the NYGiants every Sunday.
Good luck Daniel Jones and DG and “Here We Go Giants, Here We Go”
late 40’s which when even typing it is sort of terrifying. So eras are hard to compare a truth that is oft repeated when we talk of players, but is probably true for teams as a whole. But the Giants and their fans went from the elation of champions in those eras ( mid/late 50’s,60’s and recent years) to the horrors of the mid late 60’s and entire 70’s and the current years of ineptitude and failure.
We now enter perhaps a new era. It is interesting to me that Phil Simms when drafted in 1980, was received almost as badly as DJones. The shock of using #1 draft choice for an unknown qb from Western Kentucky( yes we had a long lived TE from there, but no other nfl team had ever had one) was received in shocked silence and some boos, almost as bad as DJ’s reception. In this age of media hype and cheer/hate screaming who knows how comparable those receptions could be.
we needed a defense but many giant fans were shocked again in the next year when george young used the #2 on projected lb’er from a little known football school, North Carolina, an acknowledged basketball power because of its NY ties, to draft Lawrence Taylor after George Rodgers, I think went #1.We all know how that turned out despite the quizzical looks of many cognoscenti.
So here we are again. Just remember how long it took (years/seasons/eternity) for players, fans and even the “revered” Bill Parcells to recognize Phil Simms to be the qb of the giants and a 3/4 defense would put the best players we had on the field.
So although it already seems long, only time will tell about DJ and whether the giants can build a frighteningly effective ‘D”. Probably beyond my life time. So I will just try to enjoy the 21st century and BBI, and Directv football pkg that allows me the joy/distress of the NYGiants every Sunday.
Good luck Daniel Jones and DG and “Here We Go Giants, Here We Go”
One of the best posts I've seen on BBI in a long time. Thanks for the walk down memory lane. Actually made me a little excited about DJ. I've been kind of negative on the whole situation. Maybe a spark can be ignited.
"What fans need to understand is this: the 2019 season is already over for the New York Giants."
Here we are with a good amount of September still on the calendar and the Giants are finished.
That's quite sobering.
That doesn't mean there isn't reason to watch and be excited. But Dallas and the Eagles are fighting for the title, while we break in a new QB and try to figure out what to do about arguably the NFL's worst defense.
Hopefully he just plays withing himself and doesn't
force things and protects himself and the football
The bigger issue is the defense when your leading tackler
is a 35 year old free safety thats his best years are clearly
behind him and we replaced Collins who was a tackling machine ]and could bring the wood with a guy who was more of a
gimmick player that has yet to prove he is even close to Collins and is shown he is no better in coverage as well .
While we hope for Carter to grow and Ximines to have an
impact along with Baker its hard to see us coming
out of there with a win .
My biggest worry about the Giants going forward... Â
...is after they have spent Draft and Free Agent Capital to find Edge rushers, LBers, Safeties and Wide Receivers NOT on the current roster, what the hell will happen to our offensive line? For a team like the Giants that has hit rock bottom and is a perennial cellar-dweller, we do not have an offensive line that will grow up together.
Bottom line: the Giants are riding a see-saw right now and are in danger of fixing specific needs while springing a leak at other needs. That's what 1964 - 1980 was all about, along with giving up premium draft choices!
Appreciate the work and realistic assessment. Said earlier I didn't think I'd like to watch a game this Giants team could beat. Well, I'm going to be following this one all the way through and hope for, but not expect, a win managed by Jones. Can't avoid his debut come what may.
and perfectly reasonable write up of where things stand.
I'm expecting to see growth in the secondary as the year wears on, but it might be painful for awhile as a fan to watch the team go through the growing pains.
His former head coah and D cordinator that he worked under. Either they take it to him real bad knowing what he is goning to do or Betch gets his shit together and attacks against the offense he praticed against for years with a qb who likes to turn it over.
This may be the turning point and his chance to be here next year. Shurmur will get a pass for the year now that Jones is in but Betches ass is very warm right now.
It's possible that Jones will have very few completions Â
given the quality of some of his receivers and the lack of familiarity, yet we should still be able to judge whether Jones has talent in terms of accuracy, velocity, ability to throw on the run, ability to use his mobility to extend plays, ability to fend off pressure and secure the ball. Win or lose, we should learn quite a bit about Jones this Sunday, and for this reason I'm looking forward to watching him play, irrespective of yards gained, points scored, and completion percentage.
We just have to be realistic about expectations here. Jones isn't the next Dan Marino. This is a process. The good news is that we've finally started the process.
The Panthers had chance after chance and Newton was beyond awful. If he could hit the broadside of a barn the Panthers would have torched the Bucs defense. The Bucs after awhile sold out on CM because they knew Newton couldn't beat them with his feet or with his arm.
I'm also looking for signs that I should pick him up in my fantasy league ;)
The Panthers had chance after chance and Newton was beyond awful. If he could hit the broadside of a barn the Panthers would have torched the Bucs defense. The Bucs after awhile sold out on CM because they knew Newton couldn't beat them with his feet or with his arm.
I didn't see all of the Bucs game, but what I saw was a very disruptive defense. Granted, both teams they were facing were struggling, but this defense is playing much better than it did last year when it was near dead last. Will that continue? Too early to tell.
Quote:
please stop with the reliance on stats to come to a conclusion. The Bucs defense is average at best. They played SF at home and the 49ers offense was struggling and turned the ball over some. Later they just reigned things in and let the Bucs screw up on their own.
The Panthers had chance after chance and Newton was beyond awful. If he could hit the broadside of a barn the Panthers would have torched the Bucs defense. The Bucs after awhile sold out on CM because they knew Newton couldn't beat them with his feet or with his arm.
I didn't see all of the Bucs game, but what I saw was a very disruptive defense. Granted, both teams they were facing were struggling, but this defense is playing much better than it did last year when it was near dead last. Will that continue? Too early to tell.
I got that and true about last year but, it was obvious they felt Newton was no running threat and once his apsses started sailing or crashing into the ground they went hard after the rush and after CM and took their chances with the WR's and TE. Olsen pushing a 1000 years old (football years) went for 100 and could have had more.
I just have feeling here. Same feeling I had in 2014 THursday night game against the Skins where Gmen offense went off and the defense played better than it had in awhile.
Is this the worst NYG defense in the history of the franchise?
Is this the worst NYG defense in the history of the franchise?
The Giants of the 70's always had decent defense...the offense was horrendous.
And the trashing of Landon Collins was unfair too. He might have not been great, but he was a good in the box guy and at least he was not invisible.
Because the league has much more parody now that isn't the same now. But some weeks - like week 1 - felt like the 70s, where they are lining up against a team that by all measures should beat them soundly.
This team doesn't need to win a Superbowl in the next 3-5 years, but they need to start being a tough game for opponents again.
It could also be growing pains in the secondary and lack of talent in the lash rush. The latter would clear up some experience and another draft.
Oops
Wrong thread
Only Allie Sherman's absolutely gutted defenses that gave up 72 points to the Redskins in one game in the 1960s is even in the discussion with the absolutely terrible defenses last year and this year so far.
Only Allie Sherman's absolutely gutted defenses that gave up 72 points to the Redskins in one game in the 1960s is even in the discussion with the absolutely terrible defenses last year and this year so far.
2009
2015
It has been a long time since any real defense was consistently played around these parts. I know it is an offensive league now, but playing the Giants these past seven seasons or so is like half a bye week for the opposition. The Giants do not play defense and the team could not even appropriately block on offense in seasons prior to the last two weeks.
It is sad what the defense has become. I hope this season is the growing pains of a new successful defensive core, but I will have to see it to believe it.
Quote:
A sobering but realistic description of the situation
We just have to be realistic about expectations here. Jones isn't the next Dan Marino. This is a process. The good news is that we've finally started the process.
Agreed. I hope Jones is spectacular, but we need to temper expectations, especially since it's his first game. I just want to see progress. On defense, we are very young, but I was encouraged by the additional pressure we generated in the second half. I'd also like to see some snaps for Skipper.
We now enter perhaps a new era. It is interesting to me that Phil Simms when drafted in 1980, was received almost as badly as DJones. The shock of using #1 draft choice for an unknown qb from Western Kentucky( yes we had a long lived TE from there, but no other nfl team had ever had one) was received in shocked silence and some boos, almost as bad as DJ’s reception. In this age of media hype and cheer/hate screaming who knows how comparable those receptions could be.
we needed a defense but many giant fans were shocked again in the next year when george young used the #2 on projected lb’er from a little known football school, North Carolina, an acknowledged basketball power because of its NY ties, to draft Lawrence Taylor after George Rodgers, I think went #1.We all know how that turned out despite the quizzical looks of many cognoscenti.
So here we are again. Just remember how long it took (years/seasons/eternity) for players, fans and even the “revered” Bill Parcells to recognize Phil Simms to be the qb of the giants and a 3/4 defense would put the best players we had on the field.
So although it already seems long, only time will tell about DJ and whether the giants can build a frighteningly effective ‘D”. Probably beyond my life time. So I will just try to enjoy the 21st century and BBI, and Directv football pkg that allows me the joy/distress of the NYGiants every Sunday.
Good luck Daniel Jones and DG and “Here We Go Giants, Here We Go”
Is this the worst NYG defense in the history of the franchise?
The first 2 games of 2007 were worse. I am not implying any correlation to a superbowl team, but that's actually true.
"What fans need to understand is this: the 2019 season is already over for the New York Giants."
Here we are with a good amount of September still on the calendar and the Giants are finished.
That's quite sobering.
We now enter perhaps a new era. It is interesting to me that Phil Simms when drafted in 1980, was received almost as badly as DJones. The shock of using #1 draft choice for an unknown qb from Western Kentucky( yes we had a long lived TE from there, but no other nfl team had ever had one) was received in shocked silence and some boos, almost as bad as DJ’s reception. In this age of media hype and cheer/hate screaming who knows how comparable those receptions could be.
we needed a defense but many giant fans were shocked again in the next year when george young used the #2 on projected lb’er from a little known football school, North Carolina, an acknowledged basketball power because of its NY ties, to draft Lawrence Taylor after George Rodgers, I think went #1.We all know how that turned out despite the quizzical looks of many cognoscenti.
So here we are again. Just remember how long it took (years/seasons/eternity) for players, fans and even the “revered” Bill Parcells to recognize Phil Simms to be the qb of the giants and a 3/4 defense would put the best players we had on the field.
So although it already seems long, only time will tell about DJ and whether the giants can build a frighteningly effective ‘D”. Probably beyond my life time. So I will just try to enjoy the 21st century and BBI, and Directv football pkg that allows me the joy/distress of the NYGiants every Sunday.
Good luck Daniel Jones and DG and “Here We Go Giants, Here We Go”
One of the best posts I've seen on BBI in a long time. Thanks for the walk down memory lane. Actually made me a little excited about DJ. I've been kind of negative on the whole situation. Maybe a spark can be ignited.
...my father had seats at the Polo Grounds. Did you ever attend games there?
I can still recall as if yesterday my father telling me about a game he attended in early December, 1941. The announcer came over the PA system:
"All Navy men in the audience are ordered to report to their posts immediately."
My father jumped out of his seat like a bat out of hell.
"What fans need to understand is this: the 2019 season is already over for the New York Giants."
Here we are with a good amount of September still on the calendar and the Giants are finished.
That's quite sobering.
That doesn't mean there isn't reason to watch and be excited. But Dallas and the Eagles are fighting for the title, while we break in a new QB and try to figure out what to do about arguably the NFL's worst defense.
force things and protects himself and the football
The bigger issue is the defense when your leading tackler
is a 35 year old free safety thats his best years are clearly
behind him and we replaced Collins who was a tackling machine ]and could bring the wood with a guy who was more of a
gimmick player that has yet to prove he is even close to Collins and is shown he is no better in coverage as well .
While we hope for Carter to grow and Ximines to have an
impact along with Baker its hard to see us coming
out of there with a win .
...is after they have spent Draft and Free Agent Capital to find Edge rushers, LBers, Safeties and Wide Receivers NOT on the current roster, what the hell will happen to our offensive line? For a team like the Giants that has hit rock bottom and is a perennial cellar-dweller, we do not have an offensive line that will grow up together.
Bottom line: the Giants are riding a see-saw right now and are in danger of fixing specific needs while springing a leak at other needs. That's what 1964 - 1980 was all about, along with giving up premium draft choices!
Jones has great ball placement
Jones has great ball placement
That was kept under wraps in the preseason.
Or maybe Shurmer never thought of it. I would not put that pass him.
I'm expecting to see growth in the secondary as the year wears on, but it might be painful for awhile as a fan to watch the team go through the growing pains.
This may be the turning point and his chance to be here next year. Shurmur will get a pass for the year now that Jones is in but Betches ass is very warm right now.