Change of Topic: Was LC's bad 2018 b/c of Bettcher's Def?

He wasn't good in 2017 either with Spags.

So. I dont think Collins was great enough to change your system for. Some players, yes, you would.

Have not had

Collins straight up said a lot of the plays where he looked like he blew coverage was him making up for linebackers missing their assignments.

This was after he signed for a zillion dollars.

I think Collins is a bit of a turd, but seems like everyone in the back 7 the last 2 years has struggled no matter how good they were.

but I thought he played pretty well last year. Sure, he struggled in coverage, but we knew that. His play in the box, while maybe not at his 2016 level, was still pretty good.

Got beaten like a rented mule when in coverage. Tight ends consistently abused him and that was his responsibility in certain defensive situations. He is a very good in the box safety. He was just as bad in coverage in 2017 under spags, so it really doesn't matter who the defensive coordinator is.

If he somehow shows improvement in Washington then he can say whatever he wants in regards to covering for other players, but he is who he is and imo 2016 was an abberation.

This is not say he is a bad player. He has talent and abilities, which is why Washington paid him as much as they did

was bad as a rookie in 2015.

Great in 2016 and equally as bad in 2017 and 2018.

doesn't it seem like almost every year we're talking about either the offense or the defense being too complex? Either modern NFL schemes are too complex, or the Giants and their coaches are favoring extremely complex schemes, or the Giants are picking players who aren't capable of handling the schemes they are running.

Or we're talking about too much about the complexity of the schemes.

because his best position was LB and he wasn’t interested.

Most thought 2016 was his “I got it” year, but it really was a fluke or the last time he was healthy. Interested to see how he does in Washington. I don’t see any way he can justify that contract.

supposed to do in this D. I havent seen any play competently.

In comment 14590620 Dankbeerman said:

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supposed to do in this D. I havent seen any play competently.

Safeties? I haven't seen anyone in the secondary play well.

Jenkins had by far his worst professional season as did Collins. Webb and Riley didn't look like they belonged in the NFL.

Baker, Hamilton, Peppers, and Bethea look terrible. Even Haley looks worse this year.

all the missed tackles? He was a one year wonder. There's not much more to say about the guy. Outside of 2016, he was a JAG who got exposed because we relied on him to be a star. He just wasn't that guy. Now, he's a Redskin. End of story.

Was the D looked 10x better in the 2nd half vs Buffalo. Banks I beleive said it looked like Bettcher dialed things back a bit and the players looked a lot more aware of what they needed to do subsequently.

I think his shortcomings were the result of an Atrocious secondary. Put him in with competentary players and he will SHINE.

In comment 14590632 NYFootballGiants said:

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all the missed tackles? He was a one year wonder. There's not much more to say about the guy. Outside of 2016, he was a JAG who got exposed because we relied on him to be a star. He just wasn't that guy. Now, he's a Redskin. End of story.

Missed tackles?

Have some examples? I don’t remember many/any

Acknowledging he's best used around the LoS where are the impact plays for a guy making $15M AAV? 0 sacks and 1 FF in his last 20 starts. That's not on his DC.

In comment 14590635 Giantz_comeback said:

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Was the D looked 10x better in the 2nd half vs Buffalo. Banks I beleive said it looked like Bettcher dialed things back a bit and the players looked a lot more aware of what they needed to do subsequently.

Banks always good for some useful analysis. They seemed to have swarmed Allen better in the 2nd half, instead of considerately neatly lining up in a row in front of the qb for some easy blocking.

because the bills gave up. they gave up in the second quarter when they took knees at the end of the half instead of trying to score.

the only time the bills needed to score in the second half when the giants made it somewhat interesting, they went right down the field.

DG isn't going to pay top dollar at that position. Nothing in his history suggests it. He's shifting payroll towards a different model of positional value.

If you have man cover or shadow type corners doesn't it help to have fast zone type 'go get the ball' safeties? We don't have those ever.

I'd prioritise 2 free type safeties early next draft.

Turning rookie love into one of those, he may not have the speed and that's a project. Ballrnyibe maybe. Or a first and third rounder soon.

vs any of his other years is actually shocking. While he may have been "johnny on the spot" for some of those, he just was stellar for the whole season so its very odd.

Most likely his dropoff is some combo of reasons including playing on worse defense overall, covering for others, resting on his laurels, less good luck, and maybe even being a dickhead...

coverage.

In comment 14590705 GiantsFan84 said:

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because the bills gave up. they gave up in the second quarter when they took knees at the end of the half instead of trying to score. the only time the bills needed to score in the second half when the giants made it somewhat interesting, they went right down the field.

I thought the secondary was playing closer up and man to man in the second half and I thought it looked better.

Fuck him!

I think we all agree Collins was a liability in coverage. But I thought he played poorly against the run too (especially on the edge where he’d be necessary), not always but often enough that he just didn’t seem to be a plus player against the run. And he wasn’t an effective blitzed either. I don’t remember him being a plus player for his last two seasons with the Giants.

Anyway, I’m not impressed by Betchers D but I don’t think that’s what was messing up Collins either.

his play thus far either.

In comment 14590863 Brown Recluse said:

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his play thus far either.

I keep hearing this. Just curious what the source is.

In comment 14590649 ron mexico said:

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In comment 14590632 NYFootballGiants said: Quote: all the missed tackles? He was a one year wonder. There's not much more to say about the guy. Outside of 2016, he was a JAG who got exposed because we relied on him to be a star. He just wasn't that guy. Now, he's a Redskin. End of story. Missed tackles? Have some examples? I don’t remember many/any

Go back and watch. The Carolina game from last year was the worst. Swear he missed at least 5 in that game.

Of work isn’t that bad. I think you guys are being harsh. I’ll take him over any safety on our team right now. He worked his ass off and earned a new contract and then was promptly shown the door with no offer. We could have traded him last year if we knew he wasn’t in the long term plans. This GM is so behind the curve on things it’s maddening. I hope I’m wrong about Gettleman but I can’t help what my gut tells me about the guy.

In comment 14590941 NYFootballGiants said:

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In comment 14590649 ron mexico said: Quote: In comment 14590632 NYFootballGiants said: Quote: all the missed tackles? He was a one year wonder. There's not much more to say about the guy. Outside of 2016, he was a JAG who got exposed because we relied on him to be a star. He just wasn't that guy. Now, he's a Redskin. End of story. Missed tackles? Have some examples? I don’t remember many/any Go back and watch. The Carolina game from last year was the worst. Swear he missed at least 5 in that game.

I watched only the game highlights and you are right, there some bad tackles there

The corners techniques, which will help. But still not sure Pepper's and bathea have the speed in any case.