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NFT: Joker [2019] by Todd Phillips

AndyMilligan : 10/4/2019 12:57 am
Joker [2019] by Todd Phillips

I'm not much of a fan of superhero movies so I went into Joker with fairly low expectations. I was wrong. This was a dark and disturbing film that explores the nexus between mental illness and the pathology rampant in an unforgiving and corrupt society. Gotham is portrayed as looking and feeling like 80s NYC, the New York I grew up in. The iconic steps Joaquin Phoenix can be seen dancing on are in The Bronx at 167th Street near Jerome Avenue. The performance by Phoenix will be remembered for a long time. The film looks and sounds great. It has an intimate and somewhat indie feel at times. I was at a pre-release screening (by one day) and Director Todd Phillips was there for a Q& A. He discussed how the feel on the set was very unique and unlike a Hollywood film and they often had the score playing and let Phoenix improvise his movements and actions. I would also note that there is an extended homage to another classic psychodrama set in New York City - The King of Comedy. This film is special. I might even go see it again.





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TBH on seeing the trailer, I felt much like I did w/ Ledger's trailer  
ChaChing : 10/4/2019 2:08 am : link
at first: he's gonna be awesome in the role, possibly one of his best. glad to hear it seems to ring true
RE: TBH on seeing the trailer, I felt much like I did w/ Ledger's trailer  
DCGMan : 10/4/2019 3:45 am : link
In comment 14611337 ChaChing said:
Quote:
at first: he's gonna be awesome in the role, possibly one of his best. glad to hear it seems to ring true


The Dark Knight Trailer 2 was my all-time favorite trailers in terms of gaining my interest.

The first Joker trailer was very good, too.


Dark Knight Trailer #2 - ( New Window )
I thought the Joker  
Karl Hungus : 10/4/2019 6:19 am : link
Was a businessman named Jack Napier who fell in some acid. Or is this a completely new story not tied to the last superhero movie I watched in 1989?
Watching the trailer, I thought of Taxi Driver.  
GiantsUA : 10/4/2019 6:38 am : link
Similar time period, dark, and mental illness.
This movie  
theking : 10/4/2019 6:55 am : link
Was excellent. Phoenix is a better joker than Ledger. Iím a police officer and work with mentally ill people daily.... this is extremely realistic characteristics portrayed here. Excellent acting.
RE: I thought the Joker  
Gman11 : 10/4/2019 7:19 am : link
In comment 14611358 Karl Hungus said:
Quote:
Was a businessman named Jack Napier who fell in some acid. Or is this a completely new story not tied to the last superhero movie I watched in 1989?


The filmmakers are probably hoping that the vast majority of people don't know the comic book origin of the character.
This is one I want to see as well.  
smshmth8690 : 10/4/2019 8:23 am : link
I know it is considered a superhero movie by some, but is Batman in the movie as well?
Just lost its fresh rating....  
Emlen'sGremlins : 10/4/2019 8:51 am : link
....on Tomatoes.
RE: Just lost its fresh rating....  
DCGMan : 10/4/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14611478 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....on Tomatoes.


Thatís quickly becoming a positive indicator itís a good movie/show.
going to see it on Tuesday  
Jints in Carolina : 10/4/2019 9:14 am : link
can't wait.
RE: Just lost its fresh rating....  
Jints in Carolina : 10/4/2019 9:15 am : link
In comment 14611478 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
....on Tomatoes.


RT sucks...I'll judge for myself like any movie I see.
RE: I thought the Joker  
Bramton1 : 10/4/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14611358 Karl Hungus said:
Quote:
Was a businessman named Jack Napier who fell in some acid. Or is this a completely new story not tied to the last superhero movie I watched in 1989?


First of all, Tim Burton's Batman took some liberties with the canon storyline. Most notably, Jack Napier did not kill Bruce's parents. It has been established that Joe Chill killed them.

The origins of the Joker have never been truly established. Various possible origins have been presented, but we have no way of knowing what is the true story (or even if there actually is one).

The comic story that went the farthest into the Joker origins was The Killing Joke. Joker was a failed comedian who tried to support his pregnant wife by leading a gang through a chemical plant to rob a playing card factory next door. His wife and unborn child died, and when Batman arrives to stop the gang, the would-be Joker flees through the waste value and discovers that the chemicals turned his skin white, his hair green, and his lips red. He has a psychological break and starts laughing hysterically.

However, at the end of the comic, Joker says the following to Batman, which suggests that origin story may be a lot of bull.



In The Dark Knight, Joker told two different stories about he got his scars (Dad carved a smile into his face, or he did it to himself to cheer up his depressed wife), and was set to tell a third variation before Batman intervened.

Then in the TV show Gotham that just ended, they had the Joker as a man named Jeremiah Valeska, who was driven insane by his crazy brother Jerome (a proto-Joker).

And of course in Joker, the story is of a man named Arthur Fleck.
RE: RE: I thought the Joker  
Greg from LI : 10/4/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14611377 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14611358 Karl Hungus said:


Quote:


Was a businessman named Jack Napier who fell in some acid. Or is this a completely new story not tied to the last superhero movie I watched in 1989?



The filmmakers are probably hoping that the vast majority of people don't know the comic book origin of the character.


Actually, the comics have mostly kept the Joker's origins obscure. The "Jack Napier" name was a creation of Tim Burton.
When it was announced that Joaquin Phoenix would be playing Joker  
Jay on the Island : 10/4/2019 9:20 am : link
I knew that he would be the only one who could come close to matching Ledgerís performance.
.  
Banks : 10/4/2019 9:38 am : link
It dropped to 69 on RT, but still fresh. I think it was certified fresh back ~80ish so a flood of negative reviews might have come in. I'm a Joker fan so I plan to see this
RE: RE: RE: I thought the Joker  
Karl Hungus : 10/4/2019 9:43 am : link
Quote:

Actually, the comics have mostly kept the Joker's origins obscure. The "Jack Napier" name was a creation of Tim Burton.


Cool, I had no idea. I was trying to figure it out but couldn't find a good explanation how this "origin" squares with the previous interpretations. I feel like I get it now. Thanks guys. Definitely intrigued by this... I like my films very dark.
The director  
AcesUp : 10/4/2019 9:57 am : link
made some pointed comments about certain aspects of our culture that a lot of people took offense to. It's definitely a group with a strong presence on Rottentomatoes' rating system. I'd take the dip in ratings with a grain of salt.
WOW!!  
Marty866b : 10/4/2019 10:14 am : link
167th St. near Jerome Ave. I grew up on 170th near Jerome. Now I am going to see this movie tonight.
RE: The director  
Jints in Carolina : 10/4/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14611561 AcesUp said:
Quote:
made some pointed comments about certain aspects of our culture that a lot of people took offense to. It's definitely a group with a strong presence on Rottentomatoes' rating system. I'd take the dip in ratings with a grain of salt.


ďGo try to be funny nowadays with this woke culture. There were articles written about why comedies donít work anymore Ė Iíll tell you why, because all the fĖking funny guys are like, ĎFĖk this shit, because I donít want to offend you.í Itís hard to argue with 30 million people on Twitter. You just canít do it, right? So you just go, ĎIím out.í Iím out, and you know what? With all my comedies -I think that what comedies in general all have in common Ė is theyíre irreverent. So I go, ĎHow do I do something irreverent, but fĖk comedy? Oh I know, letís take the comic book movie universe and turn it on its head with this.íĒ
RE: I thought the Joker  
Chris in Philly : 10/4/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14611358 Karl Hungus said:
Quote:
Was a businessman named Jack Napier who fell in some acid. Or is this a completely new story not tied to the last superhero movie I watched in 1989?


There is no single backstory for the Joker. There are variations on themes.
RE: RE: I thought the Joker  
Chris in Philly : 10/4/2019 10:35 am : link
In comment 14611626 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14611358 Karl Hungus said:


Quote:


Was a businessman named Jack Napier who fell in some acid. Or is this a completely new story not tied to the last superhero movie I watched in 1989?



There is no single backstory for the Joker. There are variations on themes.


Or what Greg said...
I generally hate comic book movies  
Greg from LI : 10/4/2019 10:44 am : link
But I'd be interested to see this, despite the things I've read warning that the violence is really ugly stuff.
I saw it  
moespree : 10/4/2019 11:13 am : link
It is truly amazing. I'm not one for these kinds of movies either but it's something unbelievable. Like seriously unbelievable to the point I'm amazed the film was able to be made.

I can honestly say I doubt there has ever or will ever be a better onscreen work that details a human being's slow descent into madness. It is detailed, accurate and pretty disturbing.

Phoenix, Phillips, the cinematographer, and oh my god the person who scored the film all deserve an Oscar. The score is top 3 I have ever heard in a film.
Whoa Nellie..  
Chris in Philly : 10/4/2019 11:17 am : link
"there has ever or will ever be a better onscreen work that details a human being's slow descent into madness"

That's a bold statement that covers a lot of material, past and future...
I'm seeing this either later tonight or tomorrow.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/4/2019 11:18 am : link
I literally can not wait. The reviews this movie is getting are pretty incredible. And the crybabies crying about the movie make me even want to see it even more. Can't wait.
RE: Whoa Nellie..  
moespree : 10/4/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14611681 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
"there has ever or will ever be a better onscreen work that details a human being's slow descent into madness"

That's a bold statement that covers a lot of material, past and future...


Yes.
RE: I saw it  
AndyMilligan : 10/4/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14611675 moespree said:
Quote:
It is truly amazing. I'm not one for these kinds of movies either but it's something unbelievable. Like seriously unbelievable to the point I'm amazed the film was able to be made.

I can honestly say I doubt there has ever or will ever be a better onscreen work that details a human being's slow descent into madness. It is detailed, accurate and pretty disturbing.

Phoenix, Phillips, the cinematographer, and oh my god the person who scored the film all deserve an Oscar. The score is top 3 I have ever heard in a film.


Actually what I think is interesting is that Arthur is already mad, and it is a failure of the state to attend to his illness that drives him over the edge. The politics of Joker are very provocative.
public health  
RasputinPrime : 10/4/2019 12:39 pm : link
is a significant issue that needs to be addressed. I don't know many people who aren't spinning too many plates or failing to spin enough to prepare for their later years.

I sure feel blessed to have had the family and opportunities i've enjoyed so far.
ha, I like this passage from the Onion's review  
santacruzom : 10/4/2019 2:23 pm : link
Quote:
And though it chronicles the formative years of a homicidal prankster, Joker is almost entirely humorless. Which might seem surprising, given that itís been directed by the guy who made the Hangover trilogy and Due Date. To be fair, those movies werenít funny either.

Joaquin Phoenix goes full Taxi Driver for the shallow but striking psychodrama of Joker - ( New Window )
I'm going to see it at 4:15 today.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/4/2019 2:30 pm : link
Can't wait!
RE: The director  
Optimus-NY : 10/4/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14611561 AcesUp said:
Quote:
made some pointed comments about certain aspects of our culture that a lot of people took offense to. It's definitely a group with a strong presence on Rottentomatoes' rating system. I'd take the dip in ratings with a grain of salt.


Exactly. I fully agree. He was talking about woke culture killing comedy I think.
god, the AV Club's reviews just get worse and more pretentious all the  
Greg from LI : 10/4/2019 3:19 pm : link
time.

The first Hangover was very funny, and Due Date had some hilarious moments even if it was hit or miss overall.
RE: RE: I saw it  
Optimus-NY : 10/4/2019 3:37 pm : link
In comment 14611742 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14611675 moespree said:


Quote:


It is truly amazing. I'm not one for these kinds of movies either but it's something unbelievable. Like seriously unbelievable to the point I'm amazed the film was able to be made.

I can honestly say I doubt there has ever or will ever be a better onscreen work that details a human being's slow descent into madness. It is detailed, accurate and pretty disturbing.

Phoenix, Phillips, the cinematographer, and oh my god the person who scored the film all deserve an Oscar. The score is top 3 I have ever heard in a film.



Actually what I think is interesting is that Arthur is already mad, and it is a failure of the state to attend to his illness that drives him over the edge. The politics of Joker are very provocative.


I agree. In a lot of ways, it's a movie about the failures of society. Joker isn't the villain---society is.
Don't listen to these schmuch reviewers  
Optimus-NY : 10/4/2019 3:40 pm : link
Some of em deserve to be Murray Franklind themselves.

Dave in Hoboken - You'll LOVE this film. Philips is a FANTASTIC director and Joaquin plays this role to a TEE.
RE: This movie  
Milton : 10/4/2019 3:48 pm : link
In comment 14611372 theking said:
Quote:
Iím a police officer and work with mentally ill people daily.
That's no way to refer to your fellow officers! (j/k)
they're likely joking and exaggerating  
santacruzom : 10/4/2019 3:50 pm : link
To throw shade at frat house movies.
RE: god, the AV Club's reviews just get worse and more pretentious all the  
Milton : 10/4/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14612004 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
time.

The first Hangover was very funny
Never saw Due Date but the first Hangover doesn't get enough credit for how well-written it was. A lot of cleverness went into that movie and because it's just a broad comedy it's overlooked.
RE: RE: god, the AV Club's reviews just get worse and more pretentious all the  
santacruzom : 10/4/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14612042 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14612004 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


time.

The first Hangover was very funny

Never saw Due Date but the first Hangover doesn't get enough credit for how well-written it was. A lot of cleverness went into that movie and because it's just a broad comedy it's overlooked.


I can't actually remember a single funny line from The Hangover. All I can recall about it is that the group just navigated from some incident to the next.
I loved the Hangover and Hangover II  
Jints in Carolina : 10/4/2019 4:03 pm : link
all of a sudden critics don't like it?
RE: RE: RE: god, the AV Club's reviews just get worse and more pretentious all the  
Milton : 10/4/2019 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14612053 santacruzom said:
Quote:
I can't actually remember a single funny line from The Hangover.

Paging Dr. Faggot

Thanks a lot Bin Laden
RE: RE: RE: god, the AV Club's reviews just get worse and more pretentious all the  
John In CO : 10/4/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14612053 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 14612042 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 14612004 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


time.

The first Hangover was very funny

Never saw Due Date but the first Hangover doesn't get enough credit for how well-written it was. A lot of cleverness went into that movie and because it's just a broad comedy it's overlooked.



I can't actually remember a single funny line from The Hangover. All I can recall about it is that the group just navigated from some incident to the next.


WOW....just goes to show that we are all constructed differently!:) I cant think of too many moments through out that movie where I WASNT laughing. Easily my favorite comedy of the past 15 years or so. But again, different strokes...I know most people love Adam Sandler movies, at least based on box office. After I was dragged in to this movie named "Click" several years ago, you couldnt force me to watch another of his movies. Not a huge Will Ferrell fan either. I guess if we all liked the same things life would be boring.
Dude, would you put some pants on?  
Greg from LI : 10/4/2019 4:16 pm : link
I find it weird that I have to ask twice.
RE: RE: RE: RE: god, the AV Club's reviews just get worse and more pretentious all the  
santacruzom : 10/4/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14612064 John In CO said:
Quote:
In comment 14612053 santacruzom said:


Quote:


In comment 14612042 Milton said:


Quote:


In comment 14612004 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


time.

The first Hangover was very funny

Never saw Due Date but the first Hangover doesn't get enough credit for how well-written it was. A lot of cleverness went into that movie and because it's just a broad comedy it's overlooked.



I can't actually remember a single funny line from The Hangover. All I can recall about it is that the group just navigated from some incident to the next.



WOW....just goes to show that we are all constructed differently!:) I cant think of too many moments through out that movie where I WASNT laughing. Easily my favorite comedy of the past 15 years or so. But again, different strokes...I know most people love Adam Sandler movies, at least based on box office. After I was dragged in to this movie named "Click" several years ago, you couldnt force me to watch another of his movies. Not a huge Will Ferrell fan either. I guess if we all liked the same things life would be boring.


I remember thinking it was funny when I saw it, but I can't actually remember anything funny about it now. I feel like it got a lot of mileage out of Zach Galifianakis just being Zach Galifianakisian.

When it comes to wacky incident after wacky incident movies, it's no Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle.
RE: god, the AV Club's reviews just get worse and more pretentious all the  
Route 9 : 10/5/2019 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14612004 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
time.



They were always unbearable, I couldn't imagine being interested in what they were saying in 2019.
Went to see Joker Thursday night  
Route 9 : 10/5/2019 12:17 pm : link
Did not have any interest in it when I first read about the film. I thought Phoenixs performance was great and would watch the film again when it is released digitally or on blu-ray or whatever.

I didn't read a single word in a review and took it for what it was, of course it was going to be dark, it's a Joker movie.

A bit overwhelming with all these clowns all over the place. Oh wait, that's BBI I be thinking of.
I will check it out at some point  
santacruzom : 10/5/2019 6:49 pm : link
When it hits streaming services. Phoenix is too good of an actor for me not to. But in my experience, a DC-based movie that is regarded as "dark" is really just the humorless movie equivalent of a nu metal band, so I'm skeptical.
How can this be the Joker that Batman faces?  
Matt M. : 10/5/2019 8:39 pm : link
In this movie, Bruce Way,ne is still a child and his parents still alive. Joker is about 40. So, the supervillain from Batman is supposed to be in his 60s when they face off?
From what I've heard, this is an "indie" film about mental illness.  
Mendenhall64 : 10/5/2019 10:00 pm : link
It wasn't very good so they added a f*ckton of makeup on the main character to make him a character that people want to see. The filmmakers made sh*t up to stir up controversy so people would go see it. Spend the money to see it if you want. Just be honest to tell people it was/wasn't what you expected.
A bit disturbing  
Marty866b : 10/5/2019 10:42 pm : link
But I really enjoyed Joker. Phoenix was incredible and I go to the movie at least twice a week. At this juncture, IMO, he is a shoe in for an Academy best actor. I loved Joker running through the Bronx as I got to see my "old" neighborhood. The movie even goes to and mentions Bedford Park for all the Bronxites here.
RE: From what I've heard, this is an  
UConn4523 : 10/5/2019 10:48 pm : link
In comment 14612922 Mendenhall64 said:
Quote:
It wasn't very good so they added a f*ckton of makeup on the main character to make him a character that people want to see. The filmmakers made sh*t up to stir up controversy so people would go see it. Spend the money to see it if you want. Just be honest to tell people it was/wasn't what you expected.


That doesnít make any sense...
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