for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Jay Glazer in Q& A gave really good insight on Giants and Eli

chuckydee9 : 10/4/2019 11:09 am
in one short paragraph.. when asked about, do organizations care about fan unhappiness... He replied back with a yes and used Eli as the example.. Its very telling because Jay has been right about Giants org on many things..

Based on his answer its clear that since his benching the organization was pressured to start him simply because of the fan outcry.. For any non-biased fan it seemed like Eli was done from 2016.. and when the HC finally had the guts to bench a non-performing player.. he got fired.. Not that I am defending McAdoo.. things would've been a lot different over the past 2 years if we had decided to move on from Eli after 2016 and moved up to draft Mahomes..

Regardless we've moved on..
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
McAdoo was right  
giantfan2000 : 10/4/2019 11:55 am : link
McAdoo knew Eli was done and wanted Mahomes
We were coming off playoff win and maybe things would have played out differently if we had gotten Mahomes
I wonder if the root of McAdoo's player revolt was actually the way Eli was treated by ownership and coaches ...
I have no idea why the national perception is McAdoo got fired  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/4/2019 11:58 am : link
because of the Eli benching. I mean I guess I do, in two years he had one playoff season. Not bad. However, he lost complete control of the team and the handling of the Eli benching was the feather in the cap.

To not understand the optics of benching Eli for Geno Smith in NY is preposterous. Even having Geno Smith on the roster was a colossal mistake by Reese. If it was Josh McCown or someone like that nobody would have been complaining. Well I'm sure the E-hive would have been, but if it was a good solid backup that came in at least people would get it was performance related. I'm usually a robot when it comes to decision making, and will always make the most logical choice about the better player playing, but this is one that even I can't get behind.

Starting him against the shitty Raiders was also so transparent by McAdoo/Reese. They wanted to win that game handidly with Smith so they could pin the shortcomings of the team on Eli.

One thing I respect about DG is that I doubt he ever goes into protect his job mode like Reese did with the ridiculous spending sprees or the handling of the Eli benching. He is going to do whatever is best for the longterm growth of the football team.
Eli wasn’t really a normal situation though.  
BBelle21 : 10/4/2019 12:01 pm : link
I think the intensity of the fan outcry for that clown benching Eli took the front office by surprise. The fans for the most part aren’t stupid. They’re passionate. They saw what McAdoo, Reese, and Ross were trying to do and called it out.

Eli was getting killed and blamed every week while incompetents like Ereck Flowers and Bobby Hart were getting defended every week by McAdoo and Reese. It was outrageous on many different fronts. With that level of anger, it’s impossible to ignore. I saw no major resistance from the front office or fanbase when the decision was made to play Daniel, and had it happened without the Geno Smith debacle, it still wouldn’t have been an outrage. More sadness, yes, but acceptance in playing a top 10 pick.
Depends on the owner  
Les in TO : 10/4/2019 12:01 pm : link
Some owners don’t give a crap about the fan sentiment, while others are more sensitive
RE: There was nothing stopping the Giants from moving up  
Beer Man : 10/4/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14611729 Section331 said:
Quote:
and drafting Mahomes. I think folks get a little caught up in the "McAdoo was a genius because he liked Mahomes!" BS. A lot of people liked Mahomes, just not too many saw that he would become what he has. We don't know how much McAdoo, or Reese, liked PM.

The Giants were coming off a playoff run, and nobody was calling for Eli's head at that point. Sure, he wasn't great in '16, but most thought with a better OL, and more weapons (ie - Engram), he could be the guy he was a year prior.
Nothing, except the cost in future draft picks it would have taken to leap up that far in the draft.
McAdoo  
mittenedman : 10/4/2019 12:07 pm : link
got fired because he was incompetent. Not because of benching Eli.
I find it  
crick n NC : 10/4/2019 12:11 pm : link
Interesting that we don't want Mara listening to fans on personnel decisions (rightfully so) yet we come here everyday talking about how our plans for the team should be considered or are even b undoubtedly better than their decisions.
Mara knows how much...  
bw in dc : 10/4/2019 12:15 pm : link
the 1978 plane incident - where a fan flew a airplane over Giants Stadium protesting the horrible run of bad football - bothered old man Wellington. So John is very sensitive to the fans.

And he is very, very fond of Eli and the Manning family. So he's always wanted the fairy tale send off. Which is understandable.

But the great irony is Mara signed off on and supported the decision to sit Manning. And he's lied about it since when the idea backfired in Oakland. So he needed cover and threw Reese and McAdoo, covered in blood, into the ocean full of sharks.

That was a real low point for Mara as an owner and he really f-cked with McAdoo's career. Reese, on the other hand, definitely deserved to be ousted...
McAdoo..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/4/2019 12:23 pm : link
fucked with his own career - period.

This is a guy who showed up looking like Doug Heffernan on Day one and transformed himself into Gordon Gecko after a year where we had a very good turnover ratio and incredibly good health.

And after finally finding a suit that fit and reshaping his butt-cut hairdo, he alienated the team to the point where defensive players walked off the field and refused to go back into a game.

Then he pulled the stunt of benching Eli for Geno.

He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.

That has nothing to do with owndership
RE: I find it  
Jimmy Googs : 10/4/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14611772 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Interesting that we don't want Mara listening to fans on personnel decisions (rightfully so) yet we come here everyday talking about how our plans for the team should be considered or are even b undoubtedly better than their decisions.


Nah...we want him to listen to the right fans

RE: McAdoo  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2019 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14611768 mittenedman said:
Quote:
got fired because he was incompetent. Not because of benching Eli.

Keep believing that..

He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..
FMiC...  
bw in dc : 10/4/2019 12:29 pm : link
The 2017 season wasn't a disaster because of McAdoo. That's convenient.

It was a disaster because of the massive injuries that rolled in. And short of having Belichick or Lombardi under the head set, there was no way to make chicken salad out of that chicken sh-t.

I do agree that McAdoo had an image problem...
He was fired  
JonC : 10/4/2019 12:30 pm : link
because he'd lost the team and benched Eli for the wrong QB, out of desperation to hang onto his job. This included Reese. They must have known they were dangling, otherwise there wouldn't have been out of character desperate moves.

The former would've led to his dismissal after the season. Soiling Eli and his streak leading to the fan outcry compounded the former, and led to his early ouster.
RE: I find it  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2019 12:32 pm : link
In comment 14611772 crick n NC said:
Quote:
Interesting that we don't want Mara listening to fans on personnel decisions (rightfully so) yet we come here everyday talking about how our plans for the team should be considered or are even b undoubtedly better than their decisions.


Yes.. while I think and I am sure you think the same way that you are better than DG and I agree we are all better than post 2011 JR.. the reality is fan reactions should be limited to forums.. personnel decisions should be made by someone more qualified..

Franchise brand and image decisions can be based on fans.. just not your personnel or football decisions..
RE: RE: McAdoo  
mittenedman : 10/4/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14611789 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14611768 mittenedman said:


Quote:


got fired because he was incompetent. Not because of benching Eli.


Keep believing that..

He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..


chuckydee - He was in over his head in every facet of the game. Every bit as bad as Ray Handley. The Eli decision was just part of it. He would've been fired at the end of 2017 instead of during the year - but he was getting fired either way.
RE: RE: McAdoo  
Section331 : 10/4/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14611789 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:

Keep believing that..

He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..


The reason he got fired WHEN HE DID was due to how he handled Eli's benching, but make no mistake, he was getting fired at some point. That tends to happen when your team wins 2 games.
Few things  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/4/2019 12:48 pm : link
Mara actually had a big say in Eli getting benched. He wanted to look at the other QB's. He was clear about this in interviews afterwards but was cowardly in how he handled and owned up to it. After that fiasco, all the media was outraged and they started to bring great attention to the Giants drafts and poor personnel. This and the fan outrage I believe led Mara to decide Eli would have his contract honored. It also led to the end of Reese/Ross as they were also high exposed in the media.

There was no factual information that Eli was done despite what opinions people said. Without a good Oline, running game and competent defense how could anyone know for sure? Does a two time SB MVP and total class representative of the of the organization at least deserve to have those parts? I think Mara believed so and DG and PS tried in short time but they did not have enough time, picks, resources to fulfill those requirements.

If we kept McAdoo with Mahomes do we really think he would have the same success? I think the more likely scenario is he would be on IR or if lucky we would be relying on Mcadoos poor offense turning into schoolyard scrambles and chucks to Odell.

Lastly, Jones being a high pick and his performance in preseason allowed the opportunity to move on finally. The Giants also have to see if Shurmur is worth investing more time in.
RE: RE: RE: McAdoo  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14611802 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14611789 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



Keep believing that..

He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..



The reason he got fired WHEN HE DID was due to how he handled Eli's benching, but make no mistake, he was getting fired at some point. That tends to happen when your team wins 2 games.


Yes agreed (personally he should've been fired before 2016 as his offense was dull and relied solely on OBJ).. but it just proves that for the past 2+ seasons the ownership was making football decisions based on fan sentiments and not sound football decisions.. at least not when it comes to the QB position..
RE: Some of you guys are missing the point  
TrueBlue56 : 10/4/2019 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14611746 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
Giants made decisions based on fan outcry.. which is never a good thing.. regardless of who you wanted Webb or Geno.. Giants as an org should follow their HC and not their fan's crying.. Its quite evident that the management followed the fan's outcry.. and that is bad..


It's clear that it's you that is missing the point. The outcry wasn't that Eli got benched, it was who he got benched for and how the whole thing was handled. It was obvious that mcadoo lost control of the locker room and its players (it was more than just eli) that lead to his firing.

If john mara and the giants had any faults, its sentimental loyalty (Wellington was the same). Gettleman came in with a plan from the outset that sometime in the immediate future he would need to find a future franchise quarterback to replace Eli. He has rebuilt pretty much the entire roster and drafted what he Hope's to be the future quarterback.

That era has already begun. I don't think john mara or the giants operate as much due to fan reaction and by obvious evidence from gettleman they don't. Gettleman and the giants have gotten the worse negative feedback from the fans and media since gettleman was hired as GM. From passing on a quarterback in 2018, letting players like collins go and trading away beckham, snacks, apple, vernon and many other players. Gettleman was eviscerated by the fans and media for drafting Daniel Jones.

These are not the actions of a team listening to its fans. Quite the contrary. It is a team doing what they believe is in the best interest of the franchise.
Eli  
Montana_Giant : 10/4/2019 1:10 pm : link
Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.
RE: McAdoo..  
ColHowPepper : 10/4/2019 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14611781 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.
So, with you and JonC very much on the same page--and it's almost sacrosanct around here that McAdoo lost the team. I get that; it's been conventional wisdom since 2017.

My question is--and I don't claim by any stretch to be the most informed around here--what did he do or fail to do to 'lose the team, lose the lockerroom'? His pressers were painfully short on substance; he did not offer much insight. Was it arrogance that he threw in the players' faces? As said above, he could be publicly complimentary about players (but often not so with Eli).

What is the skinny?
RE: Eli  
Jimmy Googs : 10/4/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14611878 Montana_Giant said:
Quote:
Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.


He would have won 2 superbowls with a perennial playoff team if he also added a Hall of Fame QB?

Not for nothing...but so could I
RE: RE: McAdoo..  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/4/2019 1:33 pm : link
In comment 14611889 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14611781 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.

So, with you and JonC very much on the same page--and it's almost sacrosanct around here that McAdoo lost the team. I get that; it's been conventional wisdom since 2017.

My question is--and I don't claim by any stretch to be the most informed around here--what did he do or fail to do to 'lose the team, lose the lockerroom'? His pressers were painfully short on substance; he did not offer much insight. Was it arrogance that he threw in the players' faces? As said above, he could be publicly complimentary about players (but often not so with Eli).

What is the skinny?



Probably a few things. The hair, the phrases, the early losing and that the team was really not that good and 2016 was a mirage. Without TC, Mcadoo was further exposed as a offensive coach. I also think the players scapegoated him for their performance which is one of the reasons DG cleaned house so much....
IIRC, Geno did *slightly* better than Eli had been doing,  
81_Great_Dane : 10/4/2019 1:50 pm : link
but it was pretty much the same offense. If he had come in and made a difference, and the offense had looked a lot better (as Jones has done), he would have been vindicated.

The whole thing was a clusterfuck in the truest sense of the word. The brass fucked thing sup. They switched QBs, the new guy was a small improvement but not a significant one, and then they switched back. If you're switching QBs, you have to give the new guy a chance. They didn't.

As for Geno being on the roster, he was a reasonable reclamation project, but there was no point in benching Eli for the guy. He wasn't going to be the new QB.

I remember when Little Bill benched Bernie Kosar for Vinnie Testaverde. The move was despised in Cleveland. But Testaverde was better. Little Bill took the heat and stood by the move. The Giants lacked the testicular fortitude to do that. Embarrassing.
RE: Eli  
BBelle21 : 10/4/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14611878 Montana_Giant said:
Quote:
Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.


Nice to hear a fair take and from an NFL head coach no less. Thanks for sharing. Not to make heads explode around here, but is this NFL head coach still interested in Eli?
RE: Eli  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/4/2019 1:55 pm : link
In comment 14611878 Montana_Giant said:
Quote:
Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.


Yeah, that scheme really sucked with Jones in there these past two games.

LOL.
RE: RE: McAdoo..  
JonC : 10/4/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14611889 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14611781 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.

So, with you and JonC very much on the same page--and it's almost sacrosanct around here that McAdoo lost the team. I get that; it's been conventional wisdom since 2017.

My question is--and I don't claim by any stretch to be the most informed around here--what did he do or fail to do to 'lose the team, lose the lockerroom'? His pressers were painfully short on substance; he did not offer much insight. Was it arrogance that he threw in the players' faces? As said above, he could be publicly complimentary about players (but often not so with Eli).

What is the skinny?


I think a lot of it had to do with the offensive scheme and gameplan he trotted out there week after week. The offense struggled and became very easy to gameplan for, even predictable to the point the opponent was calling a big portion of their plays at the line of scrimmage pre-snap. That's demoralizing to players who are already struggling to win their one-on-one assignments.

It in turn makes the job of the defense that much harder. This led to clashes with DRC and other vets, which often to leads to players backing other players, and then it snowballs. Near mutiny was heard often behind the scenes. Add in his personality and injuries and losing and the QB fiasco ... also the players know when a coach is sinking, and it was no secret Reese was on the gangplank after Coughlin was ushered out the door.

Players were checking out, they know they can speed up the changes too.
but but but mobile QB Gino  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/4/2019 2:13 pm : link
don't need no good oline and will score 40 pts -bbi
RE: Eli  
chuckydee9 : 10/4/2019 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14611878 Montana_Giant said:
Quote:
Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.


I don't even want to go there.. if you are spending Sunday afternoon with NFL Head coaches and have them give you their personal, informative decisions then great for you.. unless someone knows you and can validate this, don't expect up to believe it..
RE: RE: RE: RE: McAdoo  
Section331 : 10/4/2019 2:35 pm : link
In comment 14611839 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:

Yes agreed (personally he should've been fired before 2016 as his offense was dull and relied solely on OBJ).. but it just proves that for the past 2+ seasons the ownership was making football decisions based on fan sentiments and not sound football decisions.. at least not when it comes to the QB position..


Yeah, I don't disagree with that, in fact I think Mara hung McAdoo out to dry on Eli's benching. He agreed to it, and then complained about "how it was handled". I'm not going to defend Mara, as the book is still out on him, IMO.
You can tell the owners screwed poor McAdoo  
HomerJones45 : 10/4/2019 2:40 pm : link
by the outpouring of offers and interviews that have come McAdoo's way.

The inexplicable part is why Mara and Tisch parted with $100 million to buy players in support of this neophyte.

How this boob became a cause celebre is one for the BBI books.
RE: RE: Eli  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/4/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14611916 BBelle21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14611878 Montana_Giant said:


Quote:


Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.



Nice to hear a fair take and from an NFL head coach no less. Thanks for sharing. Not to make heads explode around here, but is this NFL head coach still interested in Eli?


I mean cmon. This guy registered September 2019, but he said something nice about Eli so he must clearly be telling the truth!
If I take..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/4/2019 3:17 pm : link
a combination of my observations with whispers I had heard around the league, I have an idea what happened:

Quote:
My question is--and I don't claim by any stretch to be the most informed around here--what did he do or fail to do to 'lose the team, lose the lockerroom'? His pressers were painfully short on substance; he did not offer much insight. Was it arrogance that he threw in the players' faces? As said above, he could be publicly complimentary about players (but often not so with Eli).

What is the skinny?


McAdoo was very much regarded as a player's guy when he was an assistant. Didn't care about his looks, just cared about the X's and O's. Season 1, he was that guy. Sure he got ripped for the balloon suit, but that was the real him.

After having success, all of a sudden, he confers with Pat Riley on his wardrobe, slicks his hair back and starts acting like he's someone else. we noticed - but more importantly, the players noticed. Couple that change with the terrible start to the season, a change in the injury luck, and the growing feeling within the organization that he was in over his head, and the outcome we all saw took place.

The handling of the Eli situation highlighted his inability to lead and accelerated his firing, but he and reese were going to be gone after the season anyway.
RE: Few things  
bw in dc : 10/4/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14611830 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Mara actually had a big say in Eli getting benched. He wanted to look at the other QB's. He was clear about this in interviews afterwards but was cowardly in how he handled and owned up to it. After that fiasco, all the media was outraged and they started to bring great attention to the Giants drafts and poor personnel. This and the fan outrage I believe led Mara to decide Eli would have his contract honored. It also led to the end of Reese/Ross as they were also high exposed in the media.



This is spot on. Unfortunately, too many people didn't listen/read Mara's comments after GenoGate because they were very revealing. He was absolutely fully engaged in the decision to bench Eli. But then he said, and this was classic, that he had some adjustments he wanted to communicate to Reese/McAdoo but he was out of town and couldn't find time to re-connect.

I get all of the disdain for McAdoo. But he was absolutely made a sacrificial lamb in a season that had gone horribly sideways due to injuries that decimated our OL, WRs and running game.



Lot's  
Montana_Giant : 10/4/2019 3:28 pm : link
Of internet tuff guys on here. Said former head coach would still take Eli today. Would have drafted a o line to protect Eli . There are several active pro bowl players who were selected by the coach, who laid his job on the line to get them. One of those pro bowlers cost him his job because he was thought to be a bust. The point being he knows how to evaluate talent.
As for not believing me do I detect some projecting.
RE: McAdoo..  
flycatcher : 10/4/2019 4:01 pm : link
In comment 14611781 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
fucked with his own career - period.

This is a guy who showed up looking like Doug Heffernan on Day one and transformed himself into Gordon Gecko after a year where we had a very good turnover ratio and incredibly good health.

And after finally finding a suit that fit and reshaping his butt-cut hairdo, he alienated the team to the point where defensive players walked off the field and refused to go back into a game.

Then he pulled the stunt of benching Eli for Geno.

He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.

That has nothing to do with owndership

That’s a great capsule. It’s astonishing how much has happened in this organization over the past 3 years.
RE: I don't think the uproar was benching Eli.  
djstat : 10/4/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14611691 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
It was starting Geno instead of Webb.
EXACTLY.
RE: He was fired  
UberAlias : 10/4/2019 5:40 pm : link
In comment 14611794 JonC said:
Quote:
because he'd lost the team and benched Eli for the wrong QB, out of desperation to hang onto his job. This included Reese. They must have known they were dangling, otherwise there wouldn't have been out of character desperate moves.

The former would've led to his dismissal after the season. Soiling Eli and his streak leading to the fan outcry compounded the former, and led to his early ouster.
Spot on. He was fired for losing the team and the mishandling of Eli benching accelerated the move.
When McAdoo Benched Eli  
Samiam : 10/4/2019 5:56 pm : link
Most everyone here criticized McAdoo for benching Eli and starting Geno instead of Davis Webb including me. I’m now of the mind we had it wrong. Aside from the obvious that Webb sucked (as did Geno), I think McAdoo wanted to get a mobile QB in the game in large part because the OL was horrible. Geno is a bad QB but at least he can move. Eli and Webb are like statues. Shurmur wanted Eli out this year when Eli had a decent OL (at least much better) and Barkley so there was a threat of play action. Both McAdoo and Shurmur wanted mobility. The problem with McAdoo decision was he had no good choices. Shurmur did.
I was all over the place with Eli the last few years  
djm : 10/4/2019 10:08 pm : link
But I always came back to defending him and lamenting the team around him. Wanted the young qb but didn’t mind Eli starting. He was a worthy placeholder but there’s no doubt that he Eli was done. I finally saw enough week 1 this season. I don’t think it’s fair to crush the giants for playing him because up until now there wasn’t another qb here to push him. I’m just glad that when the giants did go big, it appears they got a good one in jones and they didn’t wait too long to play him. Maybe they should have drafted a big time qb sooner but I I love that they got jones and Barkley and Engram before him, in round 1. Those guys are building blocks. Jones will reap the rewards...
One thing we all have forgotten about the Eli benching  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 10/5/2019 7:13 am : link
They were going to start him that game to keep his consecutive streak going, and then take him out in the 2nd quarter no matter how he or the team played. Eli said no way, that is not how the game is played.
To this I say BS  
Matt M. : 10/5/2019 9:09 am : link
First, the issue most fans had with benching Eli was not the benching itself. It was a combination of the unprofessional manner in which it was handled and the fact that Smith was the starter. That made no sense in the short or long term. Had they started the young, question mark QB, it would have been received much differently.

As for fan happiness, if that was foremost in ownership's mind this awful stadium would be different, the eay the team us run would be different, etc. Mara has shown no interest in the fans.
At least Eli's benching incident gave BBI  
Jimmy Googs : 10/5/2019 9:18 am : link
something to ponder.

Talking about starting Nate Stupar at LB just doesn't have the same zing...
RE: Eli  
Junior22 : 10/5/2019 9:27 am : link
In comment 14611878 Montana_Giant said:
Quote:
Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.


hahahaha
RE: To this I say BS  
ron mexico : 10/5/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14612472 Matt M. said:
Quote:
First, the issue most fans had with benching Eli was not the benching itself. It was a combination of the unprofessional manner in which it was handled and the fact that Smith was the starter. That made no sense in the short or long term. Had they started the young, question mark QB, it would have been received much differently.

As for fan happiness, if that was foremost in ownership's mind this awful stadium would be different, the eay the team us run would be different, etc. Mara has shown no interest in the fans.


If Davis Webb played like Davis Webb the fan outrage would have been just as loud for different reasons, and he likely would have had to pull the plug before halftime. Imagine the fan outrage if the streak was broken for a guy who couldn’t last a half and Eli having to come in to game in relief?
...  
christian : 10/5/2019 10:41 am : link
It's no surprise everyone picks their favorite, and runs with the chapter of the story that bests supports their legacy.

The utter incompetence and failure of the org from 2013-2018 allows for mutually inclusive sucking by all the characters.

Coughlin fizzled, Reese couldn't build a winner, Mara made a number of bad decisions, Manning had or was rapidly hitting the end, MacAdoo was in over his head.

A good org can absorb bad performance at one of those key roles, the Giants were just lucky enough to get all of them sucking for a 5 year period.

RE: IIRC, Geno did *slightly* better than Eli had been doing,  
GeofromNJ : 10/5/2019 11:18 am : link
In comment 14611915 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
but it was pretty much the same offense. If he had come in and made a difference, and the offense had looked a lot better (as Jones has done), he would have been vindicated.

The whole thing was a clusterfuck in the truest sense of the word. The brass fucked thing sup. They switched QBs, the new guy was a small improvement but not a significant one, and then they switched back. If you're switching QBs, you have to give the new guy a chance. They didn't.

As for Geno being on the roster, he was a reasonable reclamation project, but there was no point in benching Eli for the guy. He wasn't going to be the new QB.

I remember when Little Bill benched Bernie Kosar for Vinnie Testaverde. The move was despised in Cleveland. But Testaverde was better. Little Bill took the heat and stood by the move. The Giants lacked the testicular fortitude to do that. Embarrassing.

The Giants would have won the Oakland game if Geno hadn't fumbled twice. Yeah, I know, the fumbling is on Geno, but minus one of those turnovers and the Giants win the game and Geno starts from then on. Not saying Geno is a great quarterback, just saying that we came that close to seeing the last of Eli.
There's one problem I have with the criticism of the first benching  
jcn56 : 10/5/2019 11:41 am : link
Everyone keeps focusing on WHO Eli was benched for.

The truth is - the who was irrelevant. The idea was to see someone else at the controls, to see how much the surrounding cast was to blame for the offensive performance.

Remember - it originated by telling Eli, in a season that was already circling the drain, that they would pull him as the game went on to see how the team would do with another QB at the helm. At that point, Eli said no, just bench me.

They would have been able to evaluate the surrounding talent and determine just how bad the OL, WR, RB positions were with a change at QB, to see whether Eli was holding the team back or whether it was the other way around.

The net results with Geno Smith at the controls weren't much different - and that was huge red flag #1.

Eli wasn't benched for Geno Smith. He was benched because he was the one variable in that controlled experiment that they needed to change to see how the rest would perform.
RE: There's one problem I have with the criticism of the first benching  
christian : 10/5/2019 11:53 am : link
In comment 14612550 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Everyone keeps focusing on WHO Eli was benched for.

The truth is - the who was irrelevant. The idea was to see someone else at the controls, to see how much the surrounding cast was to blame for the offensive performance.

Remember - it originated by telling Eli, in a season that was already circling the drain, that they would pull him as the game went on to see how the team would do with another QB at the helm. At that point, Eli said no, just bench me.

They would have been able to evaluate the surrounding talent and determine just how bad the OL, WR, RB positions were with a change at QB, to see whether Eli was holding the team back or whether it was the other way around.

The net results with Geno Smith at the controls weren't much different - and that was huge red flag #1.

Eli wasn't benched for Geno Smith. He was benched because he was the one variable in that controlled experiment that they needed to change to see how the rest would perform.


This is the most accurate, and intellectually honest assessment of the situation I've seen posted here.

I don't blame Manning not wanting to be part of making a regular season effectively a pre-season game.

Let's be real, that is exactly what was about to happen. Manning was asked to play some amount of series and then give the ball to the backups.

But it was his choice. The crying scene really changed my view of him.

Webb was never going to start that game. He was not the 2nd string QB that week, and was never ready. By the time it fell apart in the middle of the week, there was no chance Webb would be ready.
RE: RE: There's one problem I have with the criticism of the first benching  
Matt M. : 10/5/2019 8:44 pm : link
In comment 14612554 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14612550 jcn56 said:


Quote:


Everyone keeps focusing on WHO Eli was benched for.

The truth is - the who was irrelevant. The idea was to see someone else at the controls, to see how much the surrounding cast was to blame for the offensive performance.

Remember - it originated by telling Eli, in a season that was already circling the drain, that they would pull him as the game went on to see how the team would do with another QB at the helm. At that point, Eli said no, just bench me.

They would have been able to evaluate the surrounding talent and determine just how bad the OL, WR, RB positions were with a change at QB, to see whether Eli was holding the team back or whether it was the other way around.

The net results with Geno Smith at the controls weren't much different - and that was huge red flag #1.

Eli wasn't benched for Geno Smith. He was benched because he was the one variable in that controlled experiment that they needed to change to see how the rest would perform.



This is the most accurate, and intellectually honest assessment of the situation I've seen posted here.

I don't blame Manning not wanting to be part of making a regular season effectively a pre-season game.

Let's be real, that is exactly what was about to happen. Manning was asked to play some amount of series and then give the ball to the backups.

But it was his choice. The crying scene really changed my view of him.

Webb was never going to start that game. He was not the 2nd string QB that week, and was never ready. By the time it fell apart in the middle of the week, there was no chance Webb would be ready.
No, of course Webb was never going to be ready. That is 100% on McAdoo. He never even took significant snaps during the summer. He was mishandled from the start. But, for many, the benching ultimately did come down to 2 things. One, how McAdoo, Reese, and Mara handled it and two, Smith starting. Smith was never in their long term plans and with the season done, there were no short term plans. Manning should have been benched when Webb was ready. Smith shouldn't have even been on the roster at that point.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner