in one short paragraph.. when asked about, do organizations care about fan unhappiness... He replied back with a yes and used Eli as the example.. Its very telling because Jay has been right about Giants org on many things..
Based on his answer its clear that since his benching the organization was pressured to start him simply because of the fan outcry.. For any non-biased fan it seemed like Eli was done from 2016.. and when the HC finally had the guts to bench a non-performing player.. he got fired.. Not that I am defending McAdoo.. things would've been a lot different over the past 2 years if we had decided to move on from Eli after 2016 and moved up to draft Mahomes..
Regardless we've moved on..
Link - ( New Window )
If they bench Eli with someone that offered hope for the future.....like DJ.....all would have been fine.
Fans felt benching Eli for a jag was a waste. No one understand that......
^This. Webb looks like a career backup at best, but nobody really knew that yet during his rookie year.
If nothing else McAdoo saw in all the practices that Webb sucked balls and wasn't even roster worthy player.. as it turns out he was right about that... since we didn't have any other QB on the roster he had no other options.. the problem regardless is that as an Org you hire a coach because you trust his football knowledge.. then when fans start crying you shouldn't side with fans.. we are all idiots compared to someone as bad as McAdoo..
If they bench Eli with someone that offered hope for the future.....like DJ.....all would have been fine.
Fans felt benching Eli for a jag was a waste. No one understand that......
This is exactly how I, and most of the fans at my area bar, thought.
The Giants were coming off a playoff run, and nobody was calling for Eli's head at that point. Sure, he wasn't great in '16, but most thought with a better OL, and more weapons (ie - Engram), he could be the guy he was a year prior.
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It was starting Geno instead of Webb.
^This. Webb looks like a career backup at best, but nobody really knew that yet during his rookie year.
Maybe the head coach did and that’s why Geno started. It didn’t take Shurmer to long to realize Webb wasn’t the answer.
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It was starting Geno instead of Webb.
^This. Webb looks like a career backup at best, but nobody really knew that yet during his rookie year.
The coaches did
We were coming off playoff win and maybe things would have played out differently if we had gotten Mahomes
I wonder if the root of McAdoo's player revolt was actually the way Eli was treated by ownership and coaches ...
To not understand the optics of benching Eli for Geno Smith in NY is preposterous. Even having Geno Smith on the roster was a colossal mistake by Reese. If it was Josh McCown or someone like that nobody would have been complaining. Well I'm sure the E-hive would have been, but if it was a good solid backup that came in at least people would get it was performance related. I'm usually a robot when it comes to decision making, and will always make the most logical choice about the better player playing, but this is one that even I can't get behind.
Starting him against the shitty Raiders was also so transparent by McAdoo/Reese. They wanted to win that game handidly with Smith so they could pin the shortcomings of the team on Eli.
One thing I respect about DG is that I doubt he ever goes into protect his job mode like Reese did with the ridiculous spending sprees or the handling of the Eli benching. He is going to do whatever is best for the longterm growth of the football team.
Eli was getting killed and blamed every week while incompetents like Ereck Flowers and Bobby Hart were getting defended every week by McAdoo and Reese. It was outrageous on many different fronts. With that level of anger, it’s impossible to ignore. I saw no major resistance from the front office or fanbase when the decision was made to play Daniel, and had it happened without the Geno Smith debacle, it still wouldn’t have been an outrage. More sadness, yes, but acceptance in playing a top 10 pick.
The Giants were coming off a playoff run, and nobody was calling for Eli's head at that point. Sure, he wasn't great in '16, but most thought with a better OL, and more weapons (ie - Engram), he could be the guy he was a year prior.
And he is very, very fond of Eli and the Manning family. So he's always wanted the fairy tale send off. Which is understandable.
But the great irony is Mara signed off on and supported the decision to sit Manning. And he's lied about it since when the idea backfired in Oakland. So he needed cover and threw Reese and McAdoo, covered in blood, into the ocean full of sharks.
That was a real low point for Mara as an owner and he really f-cked with McAdoo's career. Reese, on the other hand, definitely deserved to be ousted...
This is a guy who showed up looking like Doug Heffernan on Day one and transformed himself into Gordon Gecko after a year where we had a very good turnover ratio and incredibly good health.
And after finally finding a suit that fit and reshaping his butt-cut hairdo, he alienated the team to the point where defensive players walked off the field and refused to go back into a game.
Then he pulled the stunt of benching Eli for Geno.
He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.
That has nothing to do with owndership
Nah...we want him to listen to the right fans
Keep believing that..
He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..
It was a disaster because of the massive injuries that rolled in. And short of having Belichick or Lombardi under the head set, there was no way to make chicken salad out of that chicken sh-t.
I do agree that McAdoo had an image problem...
The former would've led to his dismissal after the season. Soiling Eli and his streak leading to the fan outcry compounded the former, and led to his early ouster.
Yes.. while I think and I am sure you think the same way that you are better than DG and I agree we are all better than post 2011 JR.. the reality is fan reactions should be limited to forums.. personnel decisions should be made by someone more qualified..
Franchise brand and image decisions can be based on fans.. just not your personnel or football decisions..
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got fired because he was incompetent. Not because of benching Eli.
Keep believing that..
He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..
chuckydee - He was in over his head in every facet of the game. Every bit as bad as Ray Handley. The Eli decision was just part of it. He would've been fired at the end of 2017 instead of during the year - but he was getting fired either way.
Keep believing that..
He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..
The reason he got fired WHEN HE DID was due to how he handled Eli's benching, but make no mistake, he was getting fired at some point. That tends to happen when your team wins 2 games.
There was no factual information that Eli was done despite what opinions people said. Without a good Oline, running game and competent defense how could anyone know for sure? Does a two time SB MVP and total class representative of the of the organization at least deserve to have those parts? I think Mara believed so and DG and PS tried in short time but they did not have enough time, picks, resources to fulfill those requirements.
If we kept McAdoo with Mahomes do we really think he would have the same success? I think the more likely scenario is he would be on IR or if lucky we would be relying on Mcadoos poor offense turning into schoolyard scrambles and chucks to Odell.
Lastly, Jones being a high pick and his performance in preseason allowed the opportunity to move on finally. The Giants also have to see if Shurmur is worth investing more time in.
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Keep believing that..
He may not have been a good HC and may be he should have never been hired.. but the reason why he got fired was because of Eli benching or fan's reaction to Eli Benching.. Jay's answer to a very general question is part of the proof that it was the case..
The reason he got fired WHEN HE DID was due to how he handled Eli's benching, but make no mistake, he was getting fired at some point. That tends to happen when your team wins 2 games.
Yes agreed (personally he should've been fired before 2016 as his offense was dull and relied solely on OBJ).. but it just proves that for the past 2+ seasons the ownership was making football decisions based on fan sentiments and not sound football decisions.. at least not when it comes to the QB position..
It's clear that it's you that is missing the point. The outcry wasn't that Eli got benched, it was who he got benched for and how the whole thing was handled. It was obvious that mcadoo lost control of the locker room and its players (it was more than just eli) that lead to his firing.
If john mara and the giants had any faults, its sentimental loyalty (Wellington was the same). Gettleman came in with a plan from the outset that sometime in the immediate future he would need to find a future franchise quarterback to replace Eli. He has rebuilt pretty much the entire roster and drafted what he Hope's to be the future quarterback.
That era has already begun. I don't think john mara or the giants operate as much due to fan reaction and by obvious evidence from gettleman they don't. Gettleman and the giants have gotten the worse negative feedback from the fans and media since gettleman was hired as GM. From passing on a quarterback in 2018, letting players like collins go and trading away beckham, snacks, apple, vernon and many other players. Gettleman was eviscerated by the fans and media for drafting Daniel Jones.
These are not the actions of a team listening to its fans. Quite the contrary. It is a team doing what they believe is in the best interest of the franchise.
My question is--and I don't claim by any stretch to be the most informed around here--what did he do or fail to do to 'lose the team, lose the lockerroom'? His pressers were painfully short on substance; he did not offer much insight. Was it arrogance that he threw in the players' faces? As said above, he could be publicly complimentary about players (but often not so with Eli).
What is the skinny?
He would have won 2 superbowls with a perennial playoff team if he also added a Hall of Fame QB?
Not for nothing...but so could I
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He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.
So, with you and JonC very much on the same page--and it's almost sacrosanct around here that McAdoo lost the team. I get that; it's been conventional wisdom since 2017.
My question is--and I don't claim by any stretch to be the most informed around here--what did he do or fail to do to 'lose the team, lose the lockerroom'? His pressers were painfully short on substance; he did not offer much insight. Was it arrogance that he threw in the players' faces? As said above, he could be publicly complimentary about players (but often not so with Eli).
What is the skinny?
Probably a few things. The hair, the phrases, the early losing and that the team was really not that good and 2016 was a mirage. Without TC, Mcadoo was further exposed as a offensive coach. I also think the players scapegoated him for their performance which is one of the reasons DG cleaned house so much....
The whole thing was a clusterfuck in the truest sense of the word. The brass fucked thing sup. They switched QBs, the new guy was a small improvement but not a significant one, and then they switched back. If you're switching QBs, you have to give the new guy a chance. They didn't.
As for Geno being on the roster, he was a reasonable reclamation project, but there was no point in benching Eli for the guy. He wasn't going to be the new QB.
I remember when Little Bill benched Bernie Kosar for Vinnie Testaverde. The move was despised in Cleveland. But Testaverde was better. Little Bill took the heat and stood by the move. The Giants lacked the testicular fortitude to do that. Embarrassing.
Nice to hear a fair take and from an NFL head coach no less. Thanks for sharing. Not to make heads explode around here, but is this NFL head coach still interested in Eli?
Yeah, that scheme really sucked with Jones in there these past two games.
LOL.
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He fucked himself by letting a decent year go to his head and completely lost a team.
So, with you and JonC very much on the same page--and it's almost sacrosanct around here that McAdoo lost the team. I get that; it's been conventional wisdom since 2017.
My question is--and I don't claim by any stretch to be the most informed around here--what did he do or fail to do to 'lose the team, lose the lockerroom'? His pressers were painfully short on substance; he did not offer much insight. Was it arrogance that he threw in the players' faces? As said above, he could be publicly complimentary about players (but often not so with Eli).
What is the skinny?
I think a lot of it had to do with the offensive scheme and gameplan he trotted out there week after week. The offense struggled and became very easy to gameplan for, even predictable to the point the opponent was calling a big portion of their plays at the line of scrimmage pre-snap. That's demoralizing to players who are already struggling to win their one-on-one assignments.
It in turn makes the job of the defense that much harder. This led to clashes with DRC and other vets, which often to leads to players backing other players, and then it snowballs. Near mutiny was heard often behind the scenes. Add in his personality and injuries and losing and the QB fiasco ... also the players know when a coach is sinking, and it was no secret Reese was on the gangplank after Coughlin was ushered out the door.
Players were checking out, they know they can speed up the changes too.
I don't even want to go there.. if you are spending Sunday afternoon with NFL Head coaches and have them give you their personal, informative decisions then great for you.. unless someone knows you and can validate this, don't expect up to believe it..
Yes agreed (personally he should've been fired before 2016 as his offense was dull and relied solely on OBJ).. but it just proves that for the past 2+ seasons the ownership was making football decisions based on fan sentiments and not sound football decisions.. at least not when it comes to the QB position..
Yeah, I don't disagree with that, in fact I think Mara hung McAdoo out to dry on Eli's benching. He agreed to it, and then complained about "how it was handled". I'm not going to defend Mara, as the book is still out on him, IMO.
The inexplicable part is why Mara and Tisch parted with $100 million to buy players in support of this neophyte.
How this boob became a cause celebre is one for the BBI books.
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Is still the whipping boy. I watched the Dallas game with a long time NFL head coach and he said Eli looked good but that he scheme sucked and the bad passes were do to not having any real game chemistry with his recievers, Barkley in particular due to the limited snaps during preseason. The coach felt that he would have won at least 2 Super Bowls if Eli was on his team, a perennial playoff team. I hope DJ becomes a great qb but if he continues to run with the ball his career will be short lived. If a qb has to run this team is doomed.
Nice to hear a fair take and from an NFL head coach no less. Thanks for sharing. Not to make heads explode around here, but is this NFL head coach still interested in Eli?
I mean cmon. This guy registered September 2019, but he said something nice about Eli so he must clearly be telling the truth!
What is the skinny?
McAdoo was very much regarded as a player's guy when he was an assistant. Didn't care about his looks, just cared about the X's and O's. Season 1, he was that guy. Sure he got ripped for the balloon suit, but that was the real him.
After having success, all of a sudden, he confers with Pat Riley on his wardrobe, slicks his hair back and starts acting like he's someone else. we noticed - but more importantly, the players noticed. Couple that change with the terrible start to the season, a change in the injury luck, and the growing feeling within the organization that he was in over his head, and the outcome we all saw took place.
The handling of the Eli situation highlighted his inability to lead and accelerated his firing, but he and reese were going to be gone after the season anyway.
This is spot on. Unfortunately, too many people didn't listen/read Mara's comments after GenoGate because they were very revealing. He was absolutely fully engaged in the decision to bench Eli. But then he said, and this was classic, that he had some adjustments he wanted to communicate to Reese/McAdoo but he was out of town and couldn't find time to re-connect.
I get all of the disdain for McAdoo. But he was absolutely made a sacrificial lamb in a season that had gone horribly sideways due to injuries that decimated our OL, WRs and running game.
As for not believing me do I detect some projecting.