And the goal being to compete and contend year in and year out...
I see our core team as follows:
Dave Gettleman (so far I’m still on board with him)
Daniel Jones ( liked his poise today)
Saquon Barkley
Sterling Shepard
Darius Slayton (very intrigued)
Evan Engram
Will Hernandez
Jon Halapio
Kevin Zeitler
Dexter Lawrence (been excellent)
BJ Hill
O. Ximenes
Markus Golden
Lorenzo Carter
Ryan Connelly
DeAndre Baker (improving)
Jabrill Peppers
I’m honestly not sold on Shurmur as a winning coach that can achieve that dynastic goal. Nice guy and all, but doesn’t give me hope yet that he is the guy.
Tate, Ogletree, Jenkins, Remmers, Solder, Bethea are all starters I think can be upgraded. So while we have some young talent, we also still have a way to go before really contending. I think OT and LB really need to be made a priority this offseason. That will really be Gettleman’s cementing or undoing.
What say you? Do you see this team as really far off? Are the Giants on their way to being perennial contenders? Is Shurmur the guy? I think another decent offseason we may be on our way, but a terrible end to the season and we have to think about possibly upgrading the HC.
Agree about Halapio, probably need an upgrade there.
Jon Halapio
Ryan Connelly
As nice a story as they are, neither has long term staying power. Halapio should be replaced ASAP. Connelly looked like a nice UDFA pickup but not really a star. Now he tore his ACL which may limit his athletic ability which he was relying on...
And these guys have a long way to go to prove they belong as part of any team's "core". Most are first or 2nd year players still trying to find their way. We have hope, but ods are that2 or 3 won't amount to anything.
Darius Slayton (very intrigued)
BJ Hill
O. Ximenes
Markus Golden
Lorenzo Carter
DeAndre Baker (improving)
And the left tackle.
Jon Halapio
Ryan Connelly
As nice a story as they are, neither has long term staying power. Halapio should be replaced ASAP. Connelly looked like a nice UDFA pickup but not really a star. Now he tore his ACL which may limit his athletic ability which he was relying on...
And these guys have a long way to go to prove they belong as part of any team's "core". Most are first or 2nd year players still trying to find their way. We have hope, but ods are that2 or 3 won't amount to anything.
Darius Slayton (very intrigued)
BJ Hill
O. Ximenes
Markus Golden
Lorenzo Carter
DeAndre Baker (improving)
Connelly wasn't an UDFA
I think he is absolutely a core piece. ACLS aren't like 15 yrs ago. Guys recover no problem today.
I expect him to be back and the starting ILBk along side
I'd prefer Connelly alongside a stud ILB rookie drafted next year if value and slot intersect in next year's draft.
Legitimate shot? He's been a loser as a head coach his entire career whenever he's gotten the chance. Bringing him back next year would just be delaying the inevitable. What has Shurmur ever done as a head coach to make even one person believe he can be a successful head coach
QB Jones
RB Barkley
TE Engram
LG Hernandez
DL Lawrence
S Peppers
Solid Starters
DL Hill
WR Shepard
DL Tomlinson
CB Baker
Not sure about yet (but have shown flashes so far)
EDGE Ximines
WR Slayton
LB Connelly
EDGE Carter
Solid Depth
RB Gallman
C Halapio
LB Davis
DL McIntosh
Back end of roster guys
S Chandler
NB Haley
Then there is Beal, Love, and Ballentine...haven't seen these guys play yet
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These guys????
Jon Halapio
Ryan Connelly
As nice a story as they are, neither has long term staying power. Halapio should be replaced ASAP. Connelly looked like a nice UDFA pickup but not really a star. Now he tore his ACL which may limit his athletic ability which he was relying on...
And these guys have a long way to go to prove they belong as part of any team's "core". Most are first or 2nd year players still trying to find their way. We have hope, but ods are that2 or 3 won't amount to anything.
Darius Slayton (very intrigued)
BJ Hill
O. Ximenes
Markus Golden
Lorenzo Carter
DeAndre Baker (improving)
Connelly wasn't an UDFA
I think he is absolutely a core piece. ACLS aren't like 15 yrs ago. Guys recover no problem today.
I expect him to be back and the starting ILBk along side
Yes, I had a brain fart, Connolly was a 5th round choice this year...
Still the point is that the odds of a 5th rounder becoming enough of a stud to be considered core is not high, and only slightly more than a UDFA.
ACL surgery has not changed much in the past 15 years, I should know, I had one about 30 years ago and another more recently (6 years ago).
QB Jones
RB Barkley
TE Engram
LG Hernandez
DL Lawrence
S Peppers
Solid Starters
DL Hill
WR Shepard
DL Tomlinson
CB Baker
Not sure about yet (but have shown flashes so far)
EDGE Ximines
WR Slayton
LB Connelly
EDGE Carter
Solid Depth
RB Gallman
C Halapio
LB Davis
DL McIntosh
Back end of roster guys
S Chandler
NB Haley
Then there is Beal, Love, and Ballentine...haven't seen these guys play yet
I think this is pretty accurate Breeze...
Personally I think that is likely. Assuming that DJ works out, DG has bought himself time. PS has not.
And my opinion on what the team WILL do is just me being realistic about the situation, rather than providing a positive judgement.
Very possible. Gettleman is "family" and Shurmur isn't... he's likely just a misguided attempt to ease the transition from Eli to the next guy.
2019 - excuses are still built in (Eli was done, rookie QB, Reese)
2020 - expectations will be higher but Shurmur will still be a lousy head coach, and he'll pay for going 5-11
January 2021 - start over
We're reacting, not creating.
Shurmur has really not done anything for me to see a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of losing. He has a career losing record, makes head scratching play calls at ill-advised times, and isn’t great with time management. He seems like a good guy, and an adult, but as a coach I’m not sure he cuts it as anything more than a decent coordinator.
Terps: How many nails did you have to chew on to type this?
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the guys who have the look of high impact starters
QB Jones
RB Barkley
TE Engram
LG Hernandez
DL Lawrence
S Peppers
Solid Starters
DL Hill
WR Shepard
DL Tomlinson
CB Baker
Not sure about yet (but have shown flashes so far)
EDGE Ximines
WR Slayton
LB Connelly
EDGE Carter
Solid Depth
RB Gallman
C Halapio
LB Davis
DL McIntosh
Back end of roster guys
S Chandler
NB Haley
Then there is Beal, Love, and Ballentine...haven't seen these guys play yet
I think this is pretty accurate Breeze...
I agree this sounds much more realistic and let’s face it I expect the Giants to only add about 8 or 9 players next year anymore than that is too much turnover again I mean you can’t keep fielding a team of new rookies and adding 20 players or so that’s why if the giants have more than 8 picks next year I expect DG to use some As ammunition to move up .....
Gettleman picked Shurmur. If he ends up being yet another huge mistake by Gettleman, why should he get to choose the next coach?
So many miss this basic fact about the Giants despite being a fan of the team. The GM does not hire the coach in a strict vacuum. It will always be collaborative, but Mara/Tisch will always make the head coaching call. Right or wrong that is how they conduct their business.
With regard to the criteria of being a leader of men? I think that is a lazy cliche. They all are at this level until the message grows stale. In Ben's case, he tried to project the authoritative role, but to use his own cliche - he was too heavy handed. If and when it comes time to cycle through the coaching staff, I would like a defensive minded coach. The Giants defense has been an embarrassment for far too long.
I think DG is here to stay. He has not been perfect but he has a clear vision what wins in the league. I like that we are seeing good potential with later picks if not else as great role players and depth.
I think they are wasting time with Shurmur. I can see the media starting to really go after his record now that the Eli talk has faded. Then the players are going to start to question it imo.
and if you do this over a number of years it would show why some teams stay in contention by restocking and others have trouble climbing into contention. if you were to grade each team with a single number that encapsulated the value of the players on the roster, cap space and draft assets it would show that we are far from a contender today. we're in the process of replacing previous mistakes and replacing players that we jettisoned. we're not yet building on a solid foundation.
in terms of viable assets we (at least mathematically) went backwards when Gettleman jettisoned our high draft pick players (Collins, Apple). Not disagreeing with the decisions, just saying that we wasted valuable assets in the past when we picked these knuckleheads. and obviously we had some other highly drafted players (Flowers) that didn't work out at all. in terms of leveraging your draft picks to build a core team, we really screwed the pooch.
we also went backwards with most of the FA signings in the DG era. it shouldn't be a surprise that this will take a few years.
His age is only 29, he has been playing through a shoulder injury since game 1, and his history in the NFL is more impressive than all the other offensive line starters. That is why the Giants traded so much for him. Don't write him off based on the first 5 games, he is much better than that.
You aren't. Shit, look at our own history with Coughlin. He inherited an awful roster with no offensive line and no quarterback. Year 1 he went 6-10. Year 2? 11-5.
If Shurmur follows up 5-11 with 6-10, why should he be the coach in 2020?
Shurmur on the other hand is the worst head coach we have had since Ray Handley. McAdoo was a better head coach. Fassel was a better head coach. Obviously TC. Even Reeves was a better coach. I know many fans don't want to accept it yet and want to "give him more time" but this coach has been an unmitigated disaster since he was hired. He's not a winning head coach and i'm very confident he will never be.
I know we are going to give him one more year for continuity's sake with the young QB but it's just delaying the inevitable IMO.
Handley rightly a pariah with Giants fans, but strangely those same fans are willing to give Shurmur another season even if this one remains at his customary 5-11ish level.
And it wasn't long ago...2006...that fans were chanting "Tom must go" after he went 6-10, 11-5, and 9-7 (Tiki saved Coughlin's job; 8-8 would have gotten Coughlin fired). But back to back double digit loss seasons and Shurmur will still be safe.
Standards have declined, and the fan base (and ownership) accepts losing much more easily than it used to.
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the Chiefs yesterday. I'm wondering what makes them different from the Giants. GM? Coach? Ownership? I mean their owner is a drugged out sexually deviant football genius. Reich can prepare his team enough to beat a potent offensive team in a low scoring game. I don't think Shurmur could do that. I mean you see progress there. Am I way off base with the comparison?
You aren't. Shit, look at our own history with Coughlin. He inherited an awful roster with no offensive line and no quarterback. Year 1 he went 6-10. Year 2? 11-5.
Of course, that year the Giants spent big in free agency - Plax, Pierce, McKenzie - and had an extra home game (Saints). They also sent five guys to the Pro Bowl. There was a heck of a lot of talent on that team, much more than now.
And the next year they went 8-8 and almost drove TC out of town (and Eli with him).
Maybe he shouldn't, or maybe they'd like to keep him around to continue developing Jones? I really don't know.
Jon Halapio
Ryan Connelly
As nice a story as they are, neither has long term staying power. Halapio should be replaced ASAP. Connelly looked like a nice UDFA pickup but not really a star. Now he tore his ACL which may limit his athletic ability which he was relying on...Connelly was a 5th rounder, with a very high Football IQ One of his best traits. He's pretty good at diagnosing plays. Hopefully he comes back from the injury.
And these guys have a long way to go to prove they belong as part of any team's "core". Most are first or 2nd year players still trying to find their way. We have hope, but ods are that2 or 3 won't amount to anything.
Darius Slayton (very intrigued)
BJ Hill
O. Ximenes
Markus Golden
Lorenzo Carter
DeAndre Baker (improving)
Handley rightly a pariah with Giants fans, but strangely those same fans are willing to give Shurmur another season even if this one remains at his customary 5-11ish level.
And it wasn't long ago...2006...that fans were chanting "Tom must go" after he went 6-10, 11-5, and 9-7 (Tiki saved Coughlin's job; 8-8 would have gotten Coughlin fired). But back to back double digit loss seasons and Shurmur will still be safe.
Standards have declined, and the fan base (and ownership) accepts losing much more easily than it used to.
You and Odell finally agree on something!
Ask any one of my teammates of who I was as a teammates and a man and a person.... yes I’m cancer to a place that’s ok wit losing because I want to win that BADDD. Ur absolutely correct !
— Odell Beckham Jr (@obj) April 23, 2019
Of course, that was largely because he inherited a 13-3 championship team and ran them into the ground. Somehow I suspect Ray Handley wasn't going 8-8 with the current roster.