I am frustrated--6 of the last 7 years have been basically

I actually wait for bad things to happen.

We got a rookie QB who has, thus far, looked like he might be the real deal.

Thursday will likely be a low point that we can climb back up from.

We should be able to beat Zona and have a chance against the lions, maybe, havent seen them play.

There is still hope that we can get healthy on O and play competitive games in the 2nd half.

In comment 14618618 ron mexico said:

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Thursday will likely be a low point that we can climb back up from. We should be able to beat Zona and have a chance against the lions, maybe, havent seen them play. There is still hope that we can get healthy on O and play competitive games in the 2nd half.

it might, but a sprained MCL is usually a 2-4 week injury, so the chances of getting Engram back for Arizona are slim. I doubt Shep is back for that game. ANd this, of course, is on top of the horrific (even if somewhat improving) defense.

I was looking forward to Jones playing as well, but we are not going to get to enjoy him as he is going to get battered without anyone who can get real separation or catch a ball and with the Oline. It just feels like another lost season. Again, I am probably being overly dramatic today, but I am really upset by all this news.

This team just found a franchise QB. Know how hard that is? This should be a year of celebration.

Better times ahead for Giants' fans. Hell, even conceding a loss before the game is even played. If this defense can get after Tom Brady, perhaps we can force a couple of turnovers and change the game. The challenge will be stopping the run.

this season - for the first time in a long time, I am relaxed watching Giants games. I think my expectations aligned with the (perceived) goals of the front office. With that, I would be disappointed

Logically, this is year 2 of the Gettleman rebuild. I wanted to believe in the latest version of Eli and that we had a playoff team (last year).

The only game I am immaturely concerned with is the Jets game - those who know my history know I have an unehealthy obsession with beating those guys.

In comment 14618644 allstarjim said:

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This team just found a franchise QB. Know how hard that is? This should be a year of celebration. Better times ahead for Giants' fans. Hell, even conceding a loss before the game is even played. If this defense can get after Tom Brady, perhaps we can force a couple of turnovers and change the game. The challenge will be stopping the run.

Nobody has been more bullish than me on DJ, check any post in which I said anything negative about him. My hopes for him are through the roof but to say we "found" a franchise qb is just silly at this moment. We think we have identified a franchise qb, it will be a long time before we know we found one!

..because we maybe have the QB who is going to lead up the next 10-12 years. And, as he gets better and we add pieces, things are going to get better.

This is Gettleman's second year, he really can't concern himself with what happend the previous 5-6 years to be honest. He has to build it his way and that may take a couple years.

wears thin after so many years of ineptitude. Reese and Ross were fired for that very reason. I'm a little optimistic right now due to the last two drafts and the fact that it appears we have a QB. I think another side off-season and we could potentially be back in the playoffs. Of course there's never a guarantee, but I feel like we're finally headed in the right direction talent-wise. I'm not so sure Shurmur and company will still be here however.

In comment 14618651 Essex said:

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In comment 14618644 allstarjim said: Quote: This team just found a franchise QB. Know how hard that is? This should be a year of celebration. Better times ahead for Giants' fans. Hell, even conceding a loss before the game is even played. If this defense can get after Tom Brady, perhaps we can force a couple of turnovers and change the game. The challenge will be stopping the run. Nobody has been more bullish than me on DJ, check any post in which I said anything negative about him. My hopes for him are through the roof but to say we "found" a franchise qb is just silly at this moment. We think we have identified a franchise qb, it will be a long time before we know we found one!

That's fine, he's already shown enough for me. And I'm a skeptic and was skeptical of Jones. I thought he played well on Sunday, he was just a little snake bit by drops. But you can see the way he competes, moves around when there's pressure, and makes plays with his legs. I think he has what it takes.

If you look at the schedule you have maybe 4 wins in there if they get healthy. So 6 wins is an improvement but its a Pat Shurmur improvment. I don't have any confidence in the coach and his staff and I am losing confidence in Gettleman. I like his emphasis on the lines and on character, but his FA acquisitions have not panned out and I'm worried that the drafts aren't showing anything beyond the second round. Its early for Gettleman, but I feel like this is as good as Shurmur gets. He needs, as many on here like to say about Eli, a great supporting cast to even be average.

you may not be confident in that but the Giants are and they can finally build on that moving forward. No more hoping to get a great pick to spend on a QB. No more wondering what Eli's got left. No more half measures at QB to worry about. Jones is 100% our franchise QB.

In comment 14618665 allstarjim said:

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In comment 14618651 Essex said: Quote: In comment 14618644 allstarjim said: Quote: This team just found a franchise QB. Know how hard that is? This should be a year of celebration. Better times ahead for Giants' fans. Hell, even conceding a loss before the game is even played. If this defense can get after Tom Brady, perhaps we can force a couple of turnovers and change the game. The challenge will be stopping the run. Nobody has been more bullish than me on DJ, check any post in which I said anything negative about him. My hopes for him are through the roof but to say we "found" a franchise qb is just silly at this moment. We think we have identified a franchise qb, it will be a long time before we know we found one! That's fine, he's already shown enough for me. And I'm a skeptic and was skeptical of Jones. I thought he played well on Sunday, he was just a little snake bit by drops. But you can see the way he competes, moves around when there's pressure, and makes plays with his legs. I think he has what it takes.

so do I, I love DJ. I also think the next few weeks even if we play Zona will be really tough for him because he won't probably do well with the talent surrounding him. Not that it matters much in terms of our long term future, but he really is going into it without much help--which will be hard for any rookie no matter the talent level.

meaningful games the rest of the way.

I think that its quite possible that this two game stretch will be rock bottom for the team, and they will play better after.

Beat zona and get to 3-4
beat the lions and we are back to 500

maybe we can upset dallas

we should be able to beat the jets

maybe we can split with philly

If we can hover around 500 I think that is salvaging the season.

I have no faith the GM/Coaching staff can pull this together. Probably only a matter of time before Solder gets Dj seriously injured. The line is still far from competing they need two tackles and a center.

The rest of the team needs to stay healthy for more than a game or two. Jesus Christ.

yes, the losing has grown old, I totally get it. To that though, I'd rather rebuild the right way, through the draft, then have a one hit wonder spending spree like we had a few years ago, which yielded a first round exit, followed by crap in the years thereafter.

Let's do this right, stay patient. In doing so, it can line up a string of playoff appearances, not just one year. Hopefully starting next year, and building for a nice long run.

It's been characterized by reactive policies and outdated thinking. Some moves have been good, like drafting Jones and offloading the malcontents. But it remains an extremely poorly coached team with an archaic front office structure plagued by too many voices.

If I could talk to Mara I would plead with him to bring in an outside consultant to analyze how the Giants are being run in comparison to accepted best practices around the league.

I like Mara and believe he wants to win, but he's lost in the wilderness right now.

if they wont bring in an outsider, just make Chris Mara GM so he can't continue to hide behind the scenes

What I'm pleased with is that we're finally building a nucleus of talent young players for the future.

5-5.

We have Arz., Mia, Wash. and the Jets.....all winnable. 6-4

And Chicago, GB, 2 Phil, Dal and Det.

That look bad right now....but you never know....figure out how to split those.....gets them to 9-7...

he couldn't let go, couldn't imagine moving on especially with the heavy commitment attached to him financially. That's really stalled the rebuild and I think its clouded the perception on what we have in management.

I can't prove it but I think DG knew this and did his best to work around it. It was a losing battle even after drafting Jones and keeping Eli. The Giants FO is really hard to judge right now. If that outside consultant came in, who's to say Mara would even listen (if this happened in year prior with Eli still in the plans)?

In comment 14618693 Go Terps said:

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It's been characterized by reactive policies and outdated thinking. Some moves have been good, like drafting Jones and offloading the malcontents. But it remains an extremely poorly coached team with an archaic front office structure plagued by too many voices. If I could talk to Mara I would plead with him to bring in an outside consultant to analyze how the Giants are being run in comparison to accepted best practices around the league. I like Mara and believe he wants to win, but he's lost in the wilderness right now.

Fair points but things to consider. Giants have been a strong organization since 1980. Certainly some weak spots but overall their success is in the top tier of the league. Yes, more consistent franchises in terms of playoffs but 5 SB's with 4 wins is nothing to scoff at.

Many opinions as to what happened post 2012 and I have shared my thoughts. Ultimately, it always seems to come back to the same thing. Poor drafting for many years.

They have two solid drafts and potential franchise QB. If they put another one together....good things to come imo.

Outside consultants.....seems like a lot of times they cause more issues. I think a coaching change is coming soon though and am nervous about that choice so perhaps someone can assist with that.

This organization can not turn this around in an era where fast turn arounds are all over. Shepherd and the great Evan Engram injured again, if he can stay heathy crap about Engram must end, another horrible Reese first round pick. They ignore the linebacker position so long that adding 3rd round picks is enough to many, it isn't nearly enugh, but when you take up first round picks with QB's, running backs, and wide recievers because you have to, this will continue to be a shitshow. Gettlemans use of free agency has been criminal, Reese's drafts were criminal, so here we are. One guy sucked at setting up the future, the other sucks at filing in todays needs.

of an era. Now we’re watching the beginning of an era. I know we’re seeing the same challenges and similar outcomes, but it has a different feel. I mean, if Eli played last Sunday with precisely the same results, his performance would’ve been panned. With Jones, it just reflects growing pains (and terrible pass protection).

You don’t feel that, Essex? The optimism?

with Jones, there is now hope.... even if its a bit ways out.
watching giants games was impossible until week 3- now its cant miss TV because you can project a future with improvement.

like the 1970s.

Boy, did that suck.

In comment 14618693 Go Terps said:

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It's been characterized by reactive policies and outdated thinking. Some moves have been good, like drafting Jones and offloading the malcontents. But it remains an extremely poorly coached team with an archaic front office structure plagued by too many voices. If I could talk to Mara I would plead with him to bring in an outside consultant to analyze how the Giants are being run in comparison to accepted best practices around the league. I like Mara and believe he wants to win, but he's lost in the wilderness right now.

Yeah ok.

You're still upset they didn't draft Lamar Jackson, and that's it.

I'm sure the forward thinking Ravens are quickly going to win Super Bowls because of a guy who profiles to Mike Vick, but with less arm talent.

Shurmur's installed an offense that is competent, we have a QB that is an actual QB, and a GM that is focusing on the trenches.

It seems to me they are doing well, and ahead of where they should be if any of what you said is true.

We have had 2 strong drafts and are playing all the youngsters. We also have some young FA's (like Peppers) and are playing them. In addition we seem to have found our future QB, and he's playing.

All this means to me we are in growth mode, and every game our kids get more experience. Every game, even losses, and going in the plus column for me.

In the past we ha the veterans out there with limited futures, so it was more a win now plan. When we lose in that plan it does feel hopeless.

But I reflect on past seasons, or other teams like the Lions or Browns. Close but no bling.

Have to tip my hat to teams who contend yearvin year out.

In comment 14618695 ron mexico said:

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if they wont bring in an outsider, just make Chris Mara GM so he can't continue to hide behind the scenes

Do we really believe he has a say? I mean, to me, this is a guy that sits in an office with a title and collects a big paycheck........

In comment 14618752 Simms said:

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But I reflect on past seasons, or other teams like the Lions or Browns. Close but no bling. Have to tip my hat to teams who contend yearvin year out.

That very well could be the Giants if Gettleman continues to focus on the trenches and Danny Dimes is the real deal.

In comment 14618704 UConn4523 said:

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he couldn't let go, couldn't imagine moving on especially with the heavy commitment attached to him financially. That's really stalled the rebuild and I think its clouded the perception on what we have in management. I can't prove it but I think DG knew this and did his best to work around it. It was a losing battle even after drafting Jones and keeping Eli. The Giants FO is really hard to judge right now. If that outside consultant came in, who's to say Mara would even listen (if this happened in year prior with Eli still in the plans)?

I agree with this, and the Solder signing feels like it was done to appease Mara and ELi. Now that we have that in the rearview, 2020 needs to be the judgement year. No playoffs and its time to clean house again. I see people comparing our rebuild to some other teams and they forget all teams don't start at the same spot. Talent bereft, big contracts, and an aging QB is an impossible spot to be in. Do you think the Dolphins fans are going to be pissed if they aren't good next year? Of course not, they understand its a 3 year rebuild.

In comment 14618753 BillKo said:

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In comment 14618695 ron mexico said: Quote: if they wont bring in an outsider, just make Chris Mara GM so he can't continue to hide behind the scenes Do we really believe he has a say? I mean, to me, this is a guy that sits in an office with a title and collects a big paycheck........

I think he has a say but have no idea. Only time you hear him speak is when he talks about his race horses. I’m pretty confident that if he does have input, that input carries more weight than other VPs in the FO

and whoever else also haven't been in constant flux over what to do with their aging but legacy rich QB. Maybe other owners sack up and rip the band aid off faster, but those ones sure didn't. The only one who kind of did was Baltimore with Flacco, but they didn't have the blunder of awful drafts that we have had so even that's hard to compare apples to apples.

In the end, there's a lot of time and energy being wasted on the past. I get that's sports but I can't imagine constantly thinking about what could have been. I'm looking forward to the future.

That’s the only way to look at it. The other 5 years are water under the bridge. If we aren’t obviously on the right track next year tell us about it then. Complaining about the “last 7 years” is pointless.

In comment 14618766 UConn4523 said:

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and whoever else also haven't been in constant flux over what to do with their aging but legacy rich QB. Maybe other owners sack up and rip the band aid off faster, but those ones sure didn't. The only one who kind of did was Baltimore with Flacco, but they didn't have the blunder of awful drafts that we have had so even that's hard to compare apples to apples. In the end, there's a lot of time and energy being wasted on the past. I get that's sports but I can't imagine constantly thinking about what could have been. I'm looking forward to the future.

The problem is the future is being dictated by people who are repeating past mistakes.

outside of Shurmur and his coaching decisions I don't know how you can come to that conclusion.

My entire outlook is based on the premise that our FO was handcuffed by Mara. We'll see if that's the case with Eli gone.

In comment 14618712 exiled said:

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of an era. Now we’re watching the beginning of an era. I know we’re seeing the same challenges and similar outcomes, but it has a different feel. I mean, if Eli played last Sunday with precisely the same results, his performance would’ve been panned. With Jones, it just reflects growing pains (and terrible pass protection). You don’t feel that, Essex? The optimism?

I can't speak for Essex, but I am more relieved than optimistic. Having who appears to be a keeper at QB is a great step forward. But after SB46 we had a great QB. we proceeded to draft poorly and/or not develop players we did draft and maybe had one or two decent teams. I have to agree that I'm worried that its deeper than just a GM or coaching change. I don't know Chris Mara's role as VP of player personnel and I am not sure where these two fit in:
Director of Player Personnnel: Mark Koncz
Director of Pro Personnel: Ken Sternfeld
But we don't seem to be developing prospects well and we don't seem to know the FA market well. I also think it has to do with the coaches developing players and creating a game play that works best with those players. I doesn't seem like most of our players are as well 'prepare' or 'coached' as other teams at our level(DJ seemingly the exception).

So I guess I have hope that we can build around this QB better than we did around the last one, just not seeing it yet.

and has been for the last 7-8 years. Until they get a good coaching staff, hard to expect any championships. If Jones is the real deal, they can be similar to the Cowboys - maybe win the division a few times and a playoff game or two. Need to hit on a good coach like Reich or McVay.

picture getting the kids some experience and the OL &DL showing promise by the end of the season is more important in the long run. To bad Connelly cant get more experience this year.

1 WR (tier 1), 2 FS (Tier 1/2){FA and draft}, 2 OT (tier 1 & 2), at least 2 LBs (tier 1 and 2) {FA & draft} and 1 CB (tier 2)and 1 C (tier 1)

solely because we're finally drafting well again. Two more drafts like this and we'll be in the playoffs again.

Gettleman is striking out in FA but he's really nailing the drafts. That's a compromise I'll make.

the development of Jones. Hopefully, we should know be the end of 2020 if he's a hit or a miss.

Unfortunately, the challenge underneath that is do we have the right person - Gettleman - to build a team around him to optimize his success and do we have the right coach - Shurmur - to groom him.

Let's be honest, when you are barely the third best organization in your division, you have to be realistic with expectations to win.

Too many people with different agendas and on different timelines that with in on critical decisions. Gettleman told Mike Francesa that he contacted Ernie Accorsi to talk about the quarterback situation. And we've also heard that Shurmur convinced Gettleman to give Beckham a contract. And who was front and center at Duke's pro day to watch Daniel Jones? Chris Mara.

So this is the list of people we know have a say in critical personnel decisions:

John Mara
Steve Tisch
Chris Mara
Dave Gettleman
Kevin Abrams
Pat Shurmur
Ernie Accorsi

That's seven different agendas with seven different perspectives, and the result has been at least two very public instances where we changed horses midstream (Beckham and Eli). Who knows what indecision has been created in the building that hasn't been made public?

I like Jones and have high hopes for him. However, the point of the game is not to develop a quarterback. It's to win games.

Shurmur's directive is (or at least should be) to lead this team to as many wins as possible. If we go 5-11 this year Shurmur has failed at his job regardless of how Jones looks.

In comment 14618773 BillT said:

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That’s the only way to look at it. The other 5 years are water under the bridge. If we aren’t obviously on the right track next year tell us about it then. Complaining about the “last 7 years” is pointless.

This. Reese’s drafts put this team in a terrible spot and it takes time to come back from that. You can’t miss year after year on top picks and expect to be competitive.

It’s a rebuilding year.

From some of these comments you’d think the Giants were the Redskins.

...fact they wasted Eli's prime with some of the worst roster management decisions in NFL history, followed closely by the dark cloud we live under; it takes the form of the principle Owner's fatal family flaw of forgiveness and loyalty over performance.

That said, watching on game day to see who will be part of the next assault makes this the best season in awhile.

people overthink things because of the poor past 7 years.

We were not just bad, but atrocious at drafting during that time. It caused the roster to be barren at many spots, and the fix to that in 2016 was to throw money at FA's.

When you have a run like that where no draft picks remain for an extended period, you are going to have multiple holes and very few ways to fill them.

And I also think people merge the sins of Reese/Ross with the current FO. Reading this board makes it sound like Gettleman caused most of the issues and is making no good moves to fix the mess he was given. It is almost like the tone towards Gettleman is worse that the tone used for the guy who actually put us in this mess, and Gettleman is considered "backward thinking" and too tied to the organization.

It isn't rocket science why we are struggling. Injuries and horrific drafting stripped the roster of nearly all of the talent.

that many giants fans here see.

Jones looks OK so far.
Barkley is hurt...already.

The team has has terrible depth/talent/potential at WR, ILB, pass rushers, OT.

The secondary, which was a focus this off-season is't great so far.

There is A LOT to fix and a lot of confusion.

I hope there plan was a 3 year build.