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What are your Feelings on George Young?

mittenedman : 10/9/2019 8:18 am
He’s largely credited with saving the Giants from oblivion & building the powerhouse 80’s and 90 team, but he also may‘ve made 2 of the worst mistakes in franchise history:

*Deciding Bill Belichick would never be a good HC in the NFL. Having Handley as the better option.

*Not carrying a cell phone, so when Tuna wanted to come back in ‘97 he had already left the house to hire Fassel and nobody could get in touch with him.

What are your lasting feelings of George? Savior? The most damaging figure in Giants history? Something in between?
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Lots of revisionist history here. Focus on the facts.  
Ivan15 : 10/9/2019 9:57 am : link
Parcells did screw the Giants with his late resignation. Plenty of reasons.

Billy B may have been ready to be a HC but not to transition from DC to HC of the same team. His personality was not like Parcells and he would have had difficulty with that veteran team.

George did not embrace free agency in its early stages. He never really figured it out.

Handley was a bad pick. Lots of factors influenced that pick.

Reeves was not a bad hire, but no one would win that power struggle.
none of my grudges are odd at all  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 9:57 am : link
So it's a fallacious comparison
RE: .  
Platos : 10/9/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14619569 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
We are going to attack George Young today? really?


That sweet sweet man
George Young  
bluepepper : 10/9/2019 10:19 am : link
was a savior plain and simple.

Yes, he tailed off badly after 1990 but we were nowhere when he arrived in 1979 and by 1990 there were 2 Lombardis in the trophy case.
I was lucky enough to meet and talk to GY  
arniefez : 10/9/2019 10:48 am : link
a few times. He was larger than life in more ways than one. When you were around him you knew you around a man of great intelligence and presence.

I've been told by people way smarter than me if you're the smartest guy in the room you're in the wrong room. Hasn't been much of a problem for me. It must have been tough for GY to find a room with people who were smarter than him.

I'm not objective when it comes to him or Parcells or most of the 86 team. Those guys are sports heros to me and golden forever.

The biggest mistake GY made was not drafting Reggie White from the USFL. Trust me I know the whole story. Gary Zimmerman a was a HOFer too doesn't matter. If he takes Reggie White and the there was a big push from the coaches to take Reggie White the Giants 80's teams would have been more dynastic than the Steelers in the 70's.

The Belicihick snub like his relationship with Parcells was personal not business. GY was extremely principled and conservative. Not the case in different ways with either Bill in their Giant days. Young knew Belichick was a football savant. He didn't think Belichick could handle being the face of the Giants. But the guy he choose over Belichick? Most of you know the on field and off field story. Huge misjudgement of character by GY.

The 1997 cell phone thing is typical Mara white washed revisionist history. Young would have quit if Wellington brought Parcells back. It wasn't about a cell phone or lack of a cell phone. It is true Young didn't carry a cell phone in 1997. Seems to be a long pattern of Giants GMs not embracing new thinking or technology to this day.

His post Parcells career kept him out the HOF. He lost a lot of respect around the league. In the 90's the changes to the business model and the game had passed him by.
How is this even a question or debate?  
djm : 10/9/2019 10:58 am : link
He launched this franchise out of the shittyness and into an extended run of excellence. He drafted legends. Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase and set the team up for accorsi and fassel with a great 1997 draft, his last one. Get over 91-96. Every GM has bad stretches, literally every single one not named belichick. GY was great. End of story.
The most damaging figure in nyg history???  
djm : 10/9/2019 10:59 am : link
Jfc. And no, not somewhere in between.
Young had one major flaw - stubborness  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 11:08 am : link
In 1987, he thought the replacement games were a joke and thus he refused to take them seriously. The Giants lost all three games played by the scabs and that pretty much closed the book on the season after only five games.

He hated free agency, so he refused to adapt to it. That (along with some weak drafts) was why the Giants struggled in the mid-90s.

Neither he nor Parcells could get over the acrimony between them from the '80s, when Parcells was angry about Young trying to replace him with Schnellenberger and Young was angry about Parcells flirting with Atlanta and Tampa Bay before retiring abruptly in the spring of '91. That's why Young prevented them from re-hiring Parcells in 1997.
He was the right man at the right time.  
Bubba : 10/9/2019 11:08 am : link
They needed a strong personality to run interference between the Maras feud.

IMO Parcells screwed the organization leaving when he did not Young. So not wanting him back is fair. Also my understanding regarding Bill B he felt he did not have the personality to deal with the NY media and would not represent the team well image wise. That may not be the case today but back then he was a DC without the winning resume he has now.

I also feel that he did not adjust well to the changes thoughout the league dealing with FA and the cap.
RE: How is this even a question or debate?  
HomerJones45 : 10/9/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14619749 djm said:
Quote:
He launched this franchise out of the shittyness and into an extended run of excellence. He drafted legends. Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase and set the team up for accorsi and fassel with a great 1997 draft, his last one. Get over 91-96. Every GM has bad stretches, literally every single one not named belichick. GY was great. End of story.
bingo. And I agree with Greg-again. Good post.
Even BB might acknowledge that he wasn't yet ready  
CT Charlie : 10/9/2019 11:13 am : link
to be head coach of the Giants. Who knows? Media pressure in New York, moving up from being an equal to being the boss...
George Young should be REVERED  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/9/2019 11:15 am : link
He was such a great and powerful GM that he had full control of the shit show at the tail end of the 70s and drafted a nobody QB in the 1st round who became one of the greatest Giants ever. He hired legendary coaching talent, front office staff and kept the ownership out of the decision making. His ways helped pave the way to all FOUR of the Giants' Super Bowl titles. Both EA and Reese studied under him. He's responsible for some of the greatest moments in Giants history and the even why some of you are following the team. Yet there are still some on here that shit on his legacy.

George Young is a football LEGEND and I salute him!!!
He really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 11:16 am : link
should be in the HoF.

to resurrect the franchise from what it was in the 70's to what it became in the 80's is masterful.
RE: How is this even a question or debate?  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14619749 djm said:
Quote:
Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase


The interesting thing is that his '90s drafts had a penchant for finding quality players in the later rounds while whiffing completely in the first round.

1991 - Jarrod Bunch in the first (though I still classify Bunch more as an injury casualty than a bust), but Ed McCaffrey in the fourth(damn you Reeves!) and Corey Miller in the sixth
1992 - Derek Brown in the first, but Sparks in the second, Hamilton in the fourth, Widmer in the seventh
1993 - Dave Brown was effectively their first round pick, but Strahan in the second and Armstead in the eighth
1994 - Thomas Lewis in the first, but Sehorn in the second and Bratzke in the fifth
1995 - Wheatley in the first, but Gragg in the second (yeah, sucked for us but was good for SF for years) and Way in the sixth
1996 - Cedric Jones in the first, but Toomer in the second and Roman Oben in the third, plus Conrad Hamilton in the seventh was looking good before injuries wrecked his career.
1997 - finally a decent first rounder in Hilliard, plus Tiki in the second, Brad Maynard (another who wasn't great for us but succeeded elsewhere) in the third and Sam Garnes in the fifth.
Well, Young...  
bw in dc : 10/9/2019 11:23 am : link
absolutely saved Wellington's ass when he arrived in '79.

And then, as mentioned, he built the Giants into there best squad ever from '85 to '91. In the aggregate, he absolutely aced his drafts.

So stopping right there should give Young a place in Canton.

But it's a tale of two cities here because once the cap system got implemented, Young acted like he was trying to read and understand Chinese. He just couldn't adjust, lost his fastball in the draft, and team struggled with consistency.

RE: George Young should be REVERED  
BMac : 10/9/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14619777 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
He was such a great and powerful GM that he had full control of the shit show at the tail end of the 70s and drafted a nobody QB in the 1st round who became one of the greatest Giants ever. He hired legendary coaching talent, front office staff and kept the ownership out of the decision making. His ways helped pave the way to all FOUR of the Giants' Super Bowl titles. Both EA and Reese studied under him. He's responsible for some of the greatest moments in Giants history and the even why some of you are following the team. Yet there are still some on here that shit on his legacy.

George Young is a football LEGEND and I salute him!!!


One other thing that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. Despite being a high-powered executive, he was an extraordinarily warm man who always responded to letters (handwritten responses at that) and seemed to really appreciate the interest from fans.
Belongs in the HOF....  
BillKo : 10/9/2019 11:47 am : link
.....terrific GM who didn't handicap situations, he told it just as it was.

Was also part of those very good Colt teams in the 70s and was also part of the undefeated Miami team I believe (not GM but in the front office).

Just try to find an interview with GY. Francessa and Dog would have him on.....they are absolutely great listens.

People talk about how he didn't adapt to free agency well, but he left the team in pretty darn good shape after the 1997 season, his last.

GY was also a history major and used it to his advantage when acessing situations.

Best line: "You could know nothing about football and watch Lawrence Taylor for 10 minutes and realize he's the best player on the field".
He was still in Baltimore for the Dolphins undefeated season  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 11:58 am : link
He was hired as director of scouting for Miami in 1975.

I wouldn't go quite so far as saying he left them in great shape after 1997, but he had assembled a roster with a handful of excellent players that were great building blocks - Strahan, Armstead, Tiki, Toomer, Hamilton, Sehorn.
RE: He was still in Baltimore for the Dolphins undefeated season  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/9/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14619847 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He was hired as director of scouting for Miami in 1975.

I wouldn't go quite so far as saying he left them in great shape after 1997, but he had assembled a roster with a handful of excellent players that were great building blocks - Strahan, Armstead, Tiki, Toomer, Hamilton, Sehorn.


It certainly was not as bad as some seem to think. Also Ron Stone in FA and Fassel was a pretty good coach imo.
It was a very top-heavy roster  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 12:06 pm : link
Some very good players and a couple of great ones, but a lot of holes as well.
RE: I didn't like her...  
Chris in Philly : 10/9/2019 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14619624 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...but I doubt she really meant that, or that the wishes that people get cancer were serious, or the threat that someone would like to see me dead on a cold slab (which I will, FWIW).


She said she was happy he was dead. And one of us said wait you literally mean that? And she said yes. It was one of the strangest things I have ever seen here...
RE: Belongs in the HOF....  
bw in dc : 10/9/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14619838 BillKo said:
Quote:

Best line: "You could know nothing about football and watch Lawrence Taylor for 10 minutes and realize he's the best player on the field".


He loved his "elephants" too. When the OL would walk onto the practice field Young would said say, "Here comes the elephants..."
Great executive, we could use him today  
PatersonPlank : 10/9/2019 12:28 pm : link
The cell phone thing is bs. Lots of people didn't have cell phones, and who knows if this is even true anyway. Look, Parcells burned that bridge and Young wasn't bringing him back no matter how many times he asked. Belicheck was the only mistake I can remember, but I'm not going to kill him for it. Plus he did find Parcells remember. His overall tenure was outstanding and turned the franchise around.
He brought order out of chaos but....  
morrison40 : 10/9/2019 12:37 pm : link
He didn’t see or appreciate the genius of Belichick, but that’s a Mara tradition ie Landry, Lombardi , Parcells, Peyton oh well.....
RE: You believe that story about not carrying a cell phone?  
Bluesbreaker : 10/9/2019 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14619571 jcn56 said:
Quote:
He was 100% opposed to bringing Parcells back. If you think it's because he was some sort of Luddite, I have a bridge to sell you.

He wasn't without his faults - he didn't adjust well to the cap at all. But I'm not entirely sold on his not wanting Belichick - especially with rumors that BB was shacking up with a secretary inside of Giants HQ. Knowing how conservative ole Welly was, it's just as likely they told him to let him walk.

Imperfect, but brought us two titles. Drafted the greatest Giant of all time. Deserves to be in the HoF.


i'M GOING WITH YOUR TAKE ! ooops caps off People want to
bash young now ? I am sure we will throw snow balls
at Santa this year .
RE: RE: How is this even a question or debate?  
bluepepper : 10/9/2019 1:57 pm : link
In comment 14619787 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14619749 djm said:


Quote:


Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase



The interesting thing is that his '90s drafts had a penchant for finding quality players in the later rounds while whiffing completely in the first round.

1991 - Jarrod Bunch in the first (though I still classify Bunch more as an injury casualty than a bust), but Ed McCaffrey in the fourth(damn you Reeves!) and Corey Miller in the sixth
1992 - Derek Brown in the first, but Sparks in the second, Hamilton in the fourth, Widmer in the seventh
1993 - Dave Brown was effectively their first round pick, but Strahan in the second and Armstead in the eighth
1994 - Thomas Lewis in the first, but Sehorn in the second and Bratzke in the fifth
1995 - Wheatley in the first, but Gragg in the second (yeah, sucked for us but was good for SF for years) and Way in the sixth
1996 - Cedric Jones in the first, but Toomer in the second and Roman Oben in the third, plus Conrad Hamilton in the seventh was looking good before injuries wrecked his career.
1997 - finally a decent first rounder in Hilliard, plus Tiki in the second, Brad Maynard (another who wasn't great for us but succeeded elsewhere) in the third and Sam Garnes in the fifth.

This pattern with Young goes back even further. He often did better with his second rounders than first rounders:

1982 - Butch Woolfolk in first Joe Morris in second
1983 - Terry Kinard in first(good) Leonard Marshall in second (great)
1986- Eric Dorsey in first(ok) Erik Howard, Mark Collins, Pepper Johnson in second (all much better)
1988 - Eric Moore in first(ok), Jumbo Elliot second (much better)
Didn't little bill already leave for Cleveland before big bill  
Gordo : 10/9/2019 2:01 pm : link
resigned? I thought big bill left in like march of 91 and the giants were scrambling to sign a coach and that's why they went with Ray H******

I could be wrong, also the points about little bill becoming the HC after being the DC seem plausible.
HOF...  
Oskie : 10/9/2019 2:03 pm : link
Wow, luddite, ubiquitous and fallacious all in one thread, this thread should be in the HOF! Outstanding
Gordo  
arniefez : 10/9/2019 4:46 pm : link
The Giants knew Parcells was leaving long before May of 1991. They asked him to stay through the draft. Young told both Belichick and Coughlin they weren't getting the job before they left the Giants. The replacement for Parcells was his first choice.
Regardless of any failings later in tenure  
steve in ky : 10/9/2019 4:52 pm : link
He accomplished something that seemed unimaginable at the time; resurrecting the NY Giants to greatness. I don't think anyone can truly appreciate what a daunting hurdle that felt like at the time unless they were a fan throughout the 60's & 70's.

Wellington Mara wouldn't be considered the great owner he is today if it weren't for George Young. He likely would be viewed by many as a real gentleman but no more than a Daniel Snyder level of competence as an owner. And I like Wellington because he accepted Young and honored the agreement to remove himself from football decision, not an easy thing to do for an owner that had for years called the shots. He became a great owner because of it, but GY helped give him that.

The game changed and he stubbornly refused to change enough with it but IMO that doesn't wipe out any of his accomplishments, and genius required to turn the Giants into champions.

100% should be in the HOF



George Young was a friend whose letters in blue felt tip pen got me  
plato : 10/9/2019 6:05 pm : link
through some tough health issues. He once told me he didn’t mind revealing inside giant “truths” to me because I wasn’t the media. The media and agents were combined enemy of all things good about NFL, if not USA, according to Mr Young. I agree and would extend it but this is about Mr Young.

I spent a few on the road pregames talking with him and buying him glasses of milk which is what he would drink. All of this in part is to show that I am biased, but I think he was the best GM the Giants ever had.

He brought the franchise back from the hell of 18 years of terrible football. He had the “cahones” to draft #1 an unknown qb from Moorehead State as the Giants qb of the future. He followed that by drafting a defensive player from No Carolina asthe #2 pick. All of that would have been enough but he withstood the abandonment of his coach to Alabama and promote another unknown named Parcells who he defended through a 3/12/1 season as HC, in spite of Parcells machinations kept him as head coach.

Did he make mistakes? Unlike most opinionated without accountability posters here he certainly did and owned up to them. Unfortunately his career and life were cut short by a horrible neurological illness.

Young deserves a spot,on the Giants HOF if he doesn’t have one yet.
Memories About Him  
Percy : 10/9/2019 6:38 pm : link
Vague and on the whole unfavorable. A couple of very great players picked and Parcells was pretty good, but for the most part and overall, what he did was disappointing year to year. The Maras, who hired Young under duress of some sort I don't recall, put up with him pretty well and let him do his thing. But that was a long time ago now, another age. I remember being glad and relieved when his reign ended.

The Maras and Tisch used to be very hands-off owners. With young Chris in there, perhaps this has changed. I don't think they've been a plus for the team though. Things change around them, but at heart they don't.
The right guy for his time and place  
Go Terps : 10/9/2019 7:31 pm : link
And then the game passed him by. But the '86-'90 (especially '90) Giants teams are my favorite Giants ever...I'd slam my hand in a car door to have anything like that instead of what we have today.
RE: The right guy for his time and place  
ChathamMark : 10/9/2019 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14620450 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And then the game passed him by. But the '86-'90 (especially '90) Giants teams are my favorite Giants ever...I'd slam my hand in a car door to have anything like that instead of what we have today.


+1 to this. He brought us back from Football Hell to two Super Bowl wins. And he was one heckuva interview back on WFAN radio back in the day.

I was a pen pal of George's also  
Marty866b : 10/9/2019 8:29 pm : link
He always responded to my letter and questions and was very candid about some players and future draft choices. Daryl Johnston was one player he really regretted not getting. He was against free agency and it hurt the franchise and, of course, the decision to hire Handley. He turned around a really bad team and situation culminating with two championships. I can see why he would be worthy for the Hall but I can also see the argument for being kept out.

RE: The right guy for his time and place  
steve in ky : 10/9/2019 8:54 pm : link
In comment 14620450 Go Terps said:
Quote:
And then the game passed him by. But the '86-'90 (especially '90) Giants teams are my favorite Giants ever...I'd slam my hand in a car door to have anything like that instead of what we have today.


I'm probably in the minority here but I always had a hunch that it was less that the game truly passed him by than it was his disdain of the changes the NFL was making with regards to free agency and salary cap. As a result his ideals mistakenly motivating him in some sort of attempt to "prove" he could still win without having to ever fully embrace it. IMO he was too smart of a football mind to simply let so many teams pass him by, but his ideals and stubbornness cost him in the end.
RE: RE: The right guy for his time and place  
Percy : 10/9/2019 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14620494 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 14620450 Go Terps said:


Quote:


And then the game passed him by. But the '86-'90 (especially '90) Giants teams are my favorite Giants ever...I'd slam my hand in a car door to have anything like that instead of what we have today.



I'm probably in the minority here but I always had a hunch that it was less that the game truly passed him by than it was his disdain of the changes the NFL was making with regards to free agency and salary cap. As a result his ideals mistakenly motivating him in some sort of attempt to "prove" he could still win without having to ever fully embrace it. IMO he was too smart of a football mind to simply let so many teams pass him by, but his ideals and stubbornness cost him in the end.

Exactly.
RE: George Young was a friend whose letters in blue felt tip pen got me  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 9:30 pm : link
In comment 14620361 plato said:
Quote:
through some tough health issues. He once told me he didn’t mind revealing inside giant “truths” to me because I wasn’t the media. The media and agents were combined enemy of all things good about NFL, if not USA, according to Mr Young. I agree and would extend it but this is about Mr Young.

I spent a few on the road pregames talking with him and buying him glasses of milk which is what he would drink. All of this in part is to show that I am biased, but I think he was the best GM the Giants ever had.

He brought the franchise back from the hell of 18 years of terrible football. He had the “cahones” to draft #1 an unknown qb from Moorehead State as the Giants qb of the future. He followed that by drafting a defensive player from No Carolina asthe #2 pick. All of that would have been enough but he withstood the abandonment of his coach to Alabama and promote another unknown named Parcells who he defended through a 3/12/1 season as HC, in spite of Parcells machinations kept him as head coach.

Did he make mistakes? Unlike most opinionated without accountability posters here he certainly did and owned up to them. Unfortunately his career and life were cut short by a horrible neurological illness.

Young deserves a spot,on the Giants HOF if he doesn’t have one yet.


That's a great story!
RE: RE: George Young was a friend whose letters in blue felt tip pen got me  
Percy : 10/9/2019 9:36 pm : link
In comment 14620516 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14620361 plato said:


Quote:


through some tough health issues. He once told me he didn’t mind revealing inside giant “truths” to me because I wasn’t the media. The media and agents were combined enemy of all things good about NFL, if not USA, according to Mr Young. I agree and would extend it but this is about Mr Young.

I spent a few on the road pregames talking with him and buying him glasses of milk which is what he would drink. All of this in part is to show that I am biased, but I think he was the best GM the Giants ever had.

He brought the franchise back from the hell of 18 years of terrible football. He had the “cahones” to draft #1 an unknown qb from Moorehead State as the Giants qb of the future. He followed that by drafting a defensive player from No Carolina asthe #2 pick. All of that would have been enough but he withstood the abandonment of his coach to Alabama and promote another unknown named Parcells who he defended through a 3/12/1 season as HC, in spite of Parcells machinations kept him as head coach.

Did he make mistakes? Unlike most opinionated without accountability posters here he certainly did and owned up to them. Unfortunately his career and life were cut short by a horrible neurological illness.

Young deserves a spot,on the Giants HOF if he doesn’t have one yet.



That's a great story!

!
George Young  
Daniel in MI : 10/9/2019 11:01 pm : link
absolutely turned the franchise around. There's a reason he was brought in to stem the feud of the Giants ownership and turn around what should have been a flagship franchise but was languishing in hell. And he did exactly that as other have said.

And others are right, he did not adapt well to FA. The question is why. The answer is that GY believed in signing your own guys first. It was a legit theory in an era when FA just started and it was unclear how to make the most of it. GY was operating under the theory that you picked and developed the talent, so don't let it get away. Then bring in outside guys. Unfortunately, that led to overpaying for some of our own guys who were no LTs or Carsons. He clung to this theory too long when others were realizing the key in the cap era was maximum value first and foremost, and that means letting your own guys go if they want more than their performance demands.

As for BB and Tuna, Tuna screwed the Giants when he left. Back then I was nostalgic for him and would have wanted him back. He was kind of the perfect NJ/NY coach, but honestly, it's better he didn't come back and tarnish his image. BB was probably not ready to be a HC in NY yet. (I would have loved to see him try it.) Not because of football stuff, but because he'd have looked like a much grumpier McAdoo in front of the press here. He needed to go to Cleveland and even there he didn't keep the job in part because of that. It's one thing to do what he does now with a lot of success behind you, and another to do it with no track record. (And, I for one thought he should have been kept in Cleveland and would have loved to see him given a shot as HC here. I'll always think of him on the sidelines with a whiteboard and red Giants jacket coaching up the guys on the sideline. In Cleveland he made the hard but correct choice to let go of home town hero Bernie Kosar. That lost him a lot of fan goodwill because they weren't ready for that. But he was starting to turn that club around when his tenure ended, and a lot of the reason he was let go is that he was not good at being the face of a franchise.)

But, how many 5 time exec of the year winners are there? How many guys pulled a franchise out of almost 2 decades of futility? He should absolutely be in the HOF.
RE: RE: The right guy for his time and place  
jcn56 : 10/9/2019 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14620494 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 14620450 Go Terps said:


Quote:


And then the game passed him by. But the '86-'90 (especially '90) Giants teams are my favorite Giants ever...I'd slam my hand in a car door to have anything like that instead of what we have today.



I'm probably in the minority here but I always had a hunch that it was less that the game truly passed him by than it was his disdain of the changes the NFL was making with regards to free agency and salary cap. As a result his ideals mistakenly motivating him in some sort of attempt to "prove" he could still win without having to ever fully embrace it. IMO he was too smart of a football mind to simply let so many teams pass him by, but his ideals and stubbornness cost him in the end.


I don't think so, steve - I think people just underestimate how difficult it is to be good for a prolonged period of time in a highly competitive field, especially when you're in one organization.

So many things work against you - competitors gaining ground, the industry changing, organizational inertia. I don't think Young was just stubborn, I think he legitimately couldn't evolve and adapt to the changing landscape quickly enough, and it burnt him.

I've seen it happen with other senior leaders - where longer periods of success actually hamper innovation because they become so secure in their ways that they can't adapt when they struggle. Young was brilliant but at the end of the day was still human.
I love him  
5BowlsSoon : 10/9/2019 11:42 pm : link
Thank you for everything you did for us George. Your efforts are appreciated. We love you.
He was to the Giants  
Jay in Toronto : 10/10/2019 5:49 am : link
What Gene Michaels was to the Yanks.

Also loved him. He had perspective (football at the end, is a game) and he sound be in the HOF.

Scabs  
Big_N : 10/13/2019 8:38 am : link
I think he was told by the nfl the scab games wouldn’t count. So he said why bother then ... other teams prepared anyway only for the nfl to change rules and say they would count.
You could argue that ONE DRAFT PICK made his career...  
EricJ : 10/13/2019 9:08 am : link
The team was not good even after he immediately took over. We know you cannot turn an organization around over night.

So, the saints pick Rogers and LT falls in our lap. It was a no brainer pick that only the saints could screw up. It is not as if George found LT under a rock. He was one of the top prospects coming out of college that year.

George was essentially getting ready to fire Parcells too. That could have been another bad decision on his part.

The play of Lawrence Taylor basically brought the success to the team during the 80's and early 90's. Once LT retired, that was it. They were only truly competitive when LT was playing.

So... not to diminish the selection of Banks, Collins, Meggett and others but yes it is possible that ONE Draft pick
Young did a fabulous job taking this team from dregs  
Jimmy Googs : 10/13/2019 9:19 am : link
to the top of the league throughout the 80s and early 90s.

Clearly wasn't built for the game changing with free agency but that should not at all take away what he accomplished with this franchise.

Fabulous job...
The guy who saved the franchise  
HomerJones45 : 10/13/2019 10:33 am : link
was Pete Rozelle who told the warring Mara brothers to sit down, STFU and stay out of the way. He then engineered the arrival of Young, a successful executive with the Colts and Dolphins who would have never come here in a zillion years if not for Rozelle who personally guaranteed the Maras would not interfere.

As for Young, who does deserve to be the HOF, his contributions cannot be under estimated. He overhauled the roster but not in Gettlemen "get rid of everyone" style. Young evaluated the players and stuck with guys like George Martin, Van Pelt, Jennings and Carson who although associated with the abject failures of prior years, he thought could play. He then drafted Simms and started turning the franchise around.

Also, everyone forgets some of the deals he engineered such as getting Oates, Landetta and Godfrey from the wreckage of the USFL and picking up Carpenter, who led us to the playoffs for the first time in 17 years, and OJ Anderson. He also kept a steady supply of o-linemen and linebackers coming for a team that liked to run the ball and play a 3-4.

On the LT draft, you guys all act like it was forgone conclusion, but that was a great draft (3 of the top 10 picks are in the HOF) and no one would have been critical if the Giants had taken EJ Junior or Kenny Easley or Ronnie Lott in that draft.
RE: RE: How is this even a question or debate?  
djm : 10/13/2019 10:53 am : link
In comment 14619787 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 14619749 djm said:


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Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase



The interesting thing is that his '90s drafts had a penchant for finding quality players in the later rounds while whiffing completely in the first round.

1991 - Jarrod Bunch in the first (though I still classify Bunch more as an injury casualty than a bust), but Ed McCaffrey in the fourth(damn you Reeves!) and Corey Miller in the sixth
1992 - Derek Brown in the first, but Sparks in the second, Hamilton in the fourth, Widmer in the seventh
1993 - Dave Brown was effectively their first round pick, but Strahan in the second and Armstead in the eighth
1994 - Thomas Lewis in the first, but Sehorn in the second and Bratzke in the fifth
1995 - Wheatley in the first, but Gragg in the second (yeah, sucked for us but was good for SF for years) and Way in the sixth
1996 - Cedric Jones in the first, but Toomer in the second and Roman Oben in the third, plus Conrad Hamilton in the seventh was looking good before injuries wrecked his career.
1997 - finally a decent first rounder in Hilliard, plus Tiki in the second, Brad Maynard (another who wasn't great for us but succeeded elsewhere) in the third and Sam Garnes in the fifth.


Yup. His first round whiffs were brutal during that stretch. Remember Thomas Lewis tripping over the grass... Derek Brown never really making it out of his first training camp and intro to LT...

Loved the Wheatley pick at the time. Like, really loved it. Yikes.

If all it took was the one draft pick of LT  
steve in ky : 10/13/2019 11:06 pm : link
They would have won more than two during his tenure. LT was the best I have ever seen play but football is a team sport and all the greatest players throughout the NFL's history needed enough other pieces around them to win.

RE: If all it took was the one draft pick of LT  
EricJ : 10/14/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14627581 steve in ky said:
Quote:
They would have won more than two during his tenure. LT was the best I have ever seen play but football is a team sport and all the greatest players throughout the NFL's history needed enough other pieces around them to win.


At that time, free agency was different. Today, you would not keep Andy Headen on the team as a luxury backup for LT when the guy could start for any other team in the league.
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