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What are your Feelings on George Young?

mittenedman : 10/9/2019 8:18 am
He’s largely credited with saving the Giants from oblivion & building the powerhouse 80’s and 90 team, but he also may‘ve made 2 of the worst mistakes in franchise history:

*Deciding Bill Belichick would never be a good HC in the NFL. Having Handley as the better option.

*Not carrying a cell phone, so when Tuna wanted to come back in ‘97 he had already left the house to hire Fassel and nobody could get in touch with him.

What are your lasting feelings of George? Savior? The most damaging figure in Giants history? Something in between?
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Hall of Famer, criminal he’s not in  
mfsd : 10/9/2019 8:22 am : link
The bad decisions you cite are legit points, (you can add how he screwed up the early years of free agency with that awful Hampton deal), but that doesn’t change the fact he took a dead Giants franchise and turned us into one of the best teams in football for a decade.
Excellent football guy  
DavidinBMNY : 10/9/2019 8:23 am : link
Who let the emotions bet the better of him from time to time, when at a personal level Fassel/Parcells and how that went down.
up and down  
gmenatlarge : 10/9/2019 8:30 am : link
2 SBs- GREAT
letting BB get away- dreadful
You guys nailed it  
joeinpa : 10/9/2019 8:30 am : link
Belichick, not ringing Parcells back, being a dinosaur where free agency is concerned, all reasons he should not be in HOF imo.
Do you really think he would have taken Parcells back  
carpoon : 10/9/2019 8:34 am : link
after the way Parcells screwed this franchise? He left so late that GY was stuck by having to go in house for a coach.
.  
GiantEgo : 10/9/2019 8:35 am : link
We are going to attack George Young today? really?
You believe that story about not carrying a cell phone?  
jcn56 : 10/9/2019 8:39 am : link
He was 100% opposed to bringing Parcells back. If you think it's because he was some sort of Luddite, I have a bridge to sell you.

He wasn't without his faults - he didn't adjust well to the cap at all. But I'm not entirely sold on his not wanting Belichick - especially with rumors that BB was shacking up with a secretary inside of Giants HQ. Knowing how conservative ole Welly was, it's just as likely they told him to let him walk.

Imperfect, but brought us two titles. Drafted the greatest Giant of all time. Deserves to be in the HoF.
Restored Pride back  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/9/2019 8:40 am : link
to the organization. Big People win games. Decent at identifying LB's!

I thought the Belichick was Wellington not wanting him....the whole secretary thing.

Dave Brown selection was really his biggest miss. I think Reeves proved in 93 the team still had some juice. So in essence the team was highly competitive for 15 years of his tenure....pretty outstanding imv.
Wait -  
Diver_Down : 10/9/2019 8:40 am : link
Are you really attacking GY for not having a cell phone in '97? Let's not make it out that they were ubiquitous in society at the time. I remember my girlfriend in college in the early 90's had a bag phone, and somehow that was a huge status symbol at the time.
A look back at cellphones - ( New Window )
5 time NFL Executive of the Year  
JoeFootball : 10/9/2019 8:46 am : link
Trying to justify why he's not in the hall of fame is a fools errand.
HOF-worthy GM,  
Big Blue '56 : 10/9/2019 8:55 am : link
who let his personal feelings interfere with a Tuna return (understandable, given how it unfolded). Where he erred, was not applying his GM “feelings.”

Never grasped FA.
He gave us a great decade.  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/9/2019 8:58 am : link
Brainy, fearless GM who did a great job from 1979 to the late 80s, lifting the team back to relevance with picks like Taylor, Simms, Banks, Haynes, Collins, Johnson, etc.. Made some mistakes along the way, as all GMs do, and then bungled the advent of the salary cap. Health issues may have accelerated his decline.

I will always remember him fondly, although ultimately there may have been too many egos in the room with him, Parcells, and Belichick, not to mention Coughlin, Weis and other secondary actors.
Great GM  
Steve in ATL : 10/9/2019 9:09 am : link
4 Time NFL Executive of the Year. Built the great teams of the 80s and 1990.
RE: Great GM  
Steve in ATL : 10/9/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14619602 Steve in ATL said:
Quote:
4 Time NFL Executive of the Year. Built the great teams of the 80s and 1990.


oops, 5 time NFL Executive of the Year
he resurrected the franchise  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 9:13 am : link
Whatever mistakes he made later on, you can't take that away from him. He turned a perennial laughingstock into a champion.

I agree with those who say there is no way he ever would have agreed to hire Parcells in 1997. That ship had sailed.
He..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 9:13 am : link
deserved Mad Cow Disease

-buford
LOL @ not having a cell phone in '97.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/9/2019 9:14 am : link
Yeah, like everyone was walking around with one back then...
RE: He..  
crick n NC : 10/9/2019 9:14 am : link
In comment 14619613 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
deserved Mad Cow Disease

-buford


Wow, did they actually say that?
Yup..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 9:15 am : link
one of the low points on BBI
buford was a strange one  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 9:15 am : link
Lots of odd grudges
Wow  
crick n NC : 10/9/2019 9:18 am : link
Alright. I missed that discussion, and I am not sorry that I did.
I didn't like her...  
x meadowlander : 10/9/2019 9:21 am : link
...but I doubt she really meant that, or that the wishes that people get cancer were serious, or the threat that someone would like to see me dead on a cold slab (which I will, FWIW).
I can't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 9:23 am : link
determine intent, but it is strange to post something like that without there being a hint of satire and then when called on it, she stood by the comment.
I recall buford saying something tactless regarding George Young  
MadPlaid : 10/9/2019 9:33 am : link
Something along the lines of wishing him dead for having messed up the team. If she was trying to be funny, it failed. Regardless of intent, it was totally inappropriate, and buford should have retracted it when she was called out on it. But she didn't.
As for my feelings on George Young?  
MadPlaid : 10/9/2019 9:38 am : link
I think he deserves to be in the HoF. He created a stellar franchise winner. Considering what he had to work with at the beginning, it is an amazing achievement. Yes, things went down hill quickly with the advent of free agency and a salary cap, but for a time, he was the best team executive in the NFL. IMO, no doubt.
FWIW, Belichek is weird...  
x meadowlander : 10/9/2019 9:39 am : link
...and was weird back then. Not hard to imagine he turned off some GM's.

Also - what if he became the Giants coach and had the same record he had in Cleveland? THEY SUCKED! Little Bill would've been gone in 2 years.
RE: buford was a strange one  
Brown Recluse : 10/9/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14619620 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Lots of odd grudges


Ehhh...pot, kettle? lol
He drafted Lawrence of the Meadowlands  
Chip : 10/9/2019 9:56 am : link
argument over. game set and match.
Lots of revisionist history here. Focus on the facts.  
Ivan15 : 10/9/2019 9:57 am : link
Parcells did screw the Giants with his late resignation. Plenty of reasons.

Billy B may have been ready to be a HC but not to transition from DC to HC of the same team. His personality was not like Parcells and he would have had difficulty with that veteran team.

George did not embrace free agency in its early stages. He never really figured it out.

Handley was a bad pick. Lots of factors influenced that pick.

Reeves was not a bad hire, but no one would win that power struggle.
none of my grudges are odd at all  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 9:57 am : link
So it's a fallacious comparison
RE: .  
Platos : 10/9/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14619569 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
We are going to attack George Young today? really?


That sweet sweet man
George Young  
bluepepper : 10/9/2019 10:19 am : link
was a savior plain and simple.

Yes, he tailed off badly after 1990 but we were nowhere when he arrived in 1979 and by 1990 there were 2 Lombardis in the trophy case.
I was lucky enough to meet and talk to GY  
arniefez : 10/9/2019 10:48 am : link
a few times. He was larger than life in more ways than one. When you were around him you knew you around a man of great intelligence and presence.

I've been told by people way smarter than me if you're the smartest guy in the room you're in the wrong room. Hasn't been much of a problem for me. It must have been tough for GY to find a room with people who were smarter than him.

I'm not objective when it comes to him or Parcells or most of the 86 team. Those guys are sports heros to me and golden forever.

The biggest mistake GY made was not drafting Reggie White from the USFL. Trust me I know the whole story. Gary Zimmerman a was a HOFer too doesn't matter. If he takes Reggie White and the there was a big push from the coaches to take Reggie White the Giants 80's teams would have been more dynastic than the Steelers in the 70's.

The Belicihick snub like his relationship with Parcells was personal not business. GY was extremely principled and conservative. Not the case in different ways with either Bill in their Giant days. Young knew Belichick was a football savant. He didn't think Belichick could handle being the face of the Giants. But the guy he choose over Belichick? Most of you know the on field and off field story. Huge misjudgement of character by GY.

The 1997 cell phone thing is typical Mara white washed revisionist history. Young would have quit if Wellington brought Parcells back. It wasn't about a cell phone or lack of a cell phone. It is true Young didn't carry a cell phone in 1997. Seems to be a long pattern of Giants GMs not embracing new thinking or technology to this day.

His post Parcells career kept him out the HOF. He lost a lot of respect around the league. In the 90's the changes to the business model and the game had passed him by.
How is this even a question or debate?  
djm : 10/9/2019 10:58 am : link
He launched this franchise out of the shittyness and into an extended run of excellence. He drafted legends. Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase and set the team up for accorsi and fassel with a great 1997 draft, his last one. Get over 91-96. Every GM has bad stretches, literally every single one not named belichick. GY was great. End of story.
The most damaging figure in nyg history???  
djm : 10/9/2019 10:59 am : link
Jfc. And no, not somewhere in between.
Young had one major flaw - stubborness  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 11:08 am : link
In 1987, he thought the replacement games were a joke and thus he refused to take them seriously. The Giants lost all three games played by the scabs and that pretty much closed the book on the season after only five games.

He hated free agency, so he refused to adapt to it. That (along with some weak drafts) was why the Giants struggled in the mid-90s.

Neither he nor Parcells could get over the acrimony between them from the '80s, when Parcells was angry about Young trying to replace him with Schnellenberger and Young was angry about Parcells flirting with Atlanta and Tampa Bay before retiring abruptly in the spring of '91. That's why Young prevented them from re-hiring Parcells in 1997.
He was the right man at the right time.  
Bubba : 10/9/2019 11:08 am : link
They needed a strong personality to run interference between the Maras feud.

IMO Parcells screwed the organization leaving when he did not Young. So not wanting him back is fair. Also my understanding regarding Bill B he felt he did not have the personality to deal with the NY media and would not represent the team well image wise. That may not be the case today but back then he was a DC without the winning resume he has now.

I also feel that he did not adjust well to the changes thoughout the league dealing with FA and the cap.
RE: How is this even a question or debate?  
HomerJones45 : 10/9/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14619749 djm said:
Quote:
He launched this franchise out of the shittyness and into an extended run of excellence. He drafted legends. Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase and set the team up for accorsi and fassel with a great 1997 draft, his last one. Get over 91-96. Every GM has bad stretches, literally every single one not named belichick. GY was great. End of story.
bingo. And I agree with Greg-again. Good post.
Even BB might acknowledge that he wasn't yet ready  
CT Charlie : 10/9/2019 11:13 am : link
to be head coach of the Giants. Who knows? Media pressure in New York, moving up from being an equal to being the boss...
George Young should be REVERED  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/9/2019 11:15 am : link
He was such a great and powerful GM that he had full control of the shit show at the tail end of the 70s and drafted a nobody QB in the 1st round who became one of the greatest Giants ever. He hired legendary coaching talent, front office staff and kept the ownership out of the decision making. His ways helped pave the way to all FOUR of the Giants' Super Bowl titles. Both EA and Reese studied under him. He's responsible for some of the greatest moments in Giants history and the even why some of you are following the team. Yet there are still some on here that shit on his legacy.

George Young is a football LEGEND and I salute him!!!
He really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 11:16 am : link
should be in the HoF.

to resurrect the franchise from what it was in the 70's to what it became in the 80's is masterful.
RE: How is this even a question or debate?  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14619749 djm said:
Quote:
Ok, he had a bad stretch from 91-96 or so but he still found great players even in that phase


The interesting thing is that his '90s drafts had a penchant for finding quality players in the later rounds while whiffing completely in the first round.

1991 - Jarrod Bunch in the first (though I still classify Bunch more as an injury casualty than a bust), but Ed McCaffrey in the fourth(damn you Reeves!) and Corey Miller in the sixth
1992 - Derek Brown in the first, but Sparks in the second, Hamilton in the fourth, Widmer in the seventh
1993 - Dave Brown was effectively their first round pick, but Strahan in the second and Armstead in the eighth
1994 - Thomas Lewis in the first, but Sehorn in the second and Bratzke in the fifth
1995 - Wheatley in the first, but Gragg in the second (yeah, sucked for us but was good for SF for years) and Way in the sixth
1996 - Cedric Jones in the first, but Toomer in the second and Roman Oben in the third, plus Conrad Hamilton in the seventh was looking good before injuries wrecked his career.
1997 - finally a decent first rounder in Hilliard, plus Tiki in the second, Brad Maynard (another who wasn't great for us but succeeded elsewhere) in the third and Sam Garnes in the fifth.
Well, Young...  
bw in dc : 10/9/2019 11:23 am : link
absolutely saved Wellington's ass when he arrived in '79.

And then, as mentioned, he built the Giants into there best squad ever from '85 to '91. In the aggregate, he absolutely aced his drafts.

So stopping right there should give Young a place in Canton.

But it's a tale of two cities here because once the cap system got implemented, Young acted like he was trying to read and understand Chinese. He just couldn't adjust, lost his fastball in the draft, and team struggled with consistency.

RE: George Young should be REVERED  
BMac : 10/9/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14619777 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
He was such a great and powerful GM that he had full control of the shit show at the tail end of the 70s and drafted a nobody QB in the 1st round who became one of the greatest Giants ever. He hired legendary coaching talent, front office staff and kept the ownership out of the decision making. His ways helped pave the way to all FOUR of the Giants' Super Bowl titles. Both EA and Reese studied under him. He's responsible for some of the greatest moments in Giants history and the even why some of you are following the team. Yet there are still some on here that shit on his legacy.

George Young is a football LEGEND and I salute him!!!


One other thing that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. Despite being a high-powered executive, he was an extraordinarily warm man who always responded to letters (handwritten responses at that) and seemed to really appreciate the interest from fans.
Belongs in the HOF....  
BillKo : 10/9/2019 11:47 am : link
.....terrific GM who didn't handicap situations, he told it just as it was.

Was also part of those very good Colt teams in the 70s and was also part of the undefeated Miami team I believe (not GM but in the front office).

Just try to find an interview with GY. Francessa and Dog would have him on.....they are absolutely great listens.

People talk about how he didn't adapt to free agency well, but he left the team in pretty darn good shape after the 1997 season, his last.

GY was also a history major and used it to his advantage when acessing situations.

Best line: "You could know nothing about football and watch Lawrence Taylor for 10 minutes and realize he's the best player on the field".
He was still in Baltimore for the Dolphins undefeated season  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 11:58 am : link
He was hired as director of scouting for Miami in 1975.

I wouldn't go quite so far as saying he left them in great shape after 1997, but he had assembled a roster with a handful of excellent players that were great building blocks - Strahan, Armstead, Tiki, Toomer, Hamilton, Sehorn.
RE: He was still in Baltimore for the Dolphins undefeated season  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/9/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14619847 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He was hired as director of scouting for Miami in 1975.

I wouldn't go quite so far as saying he left them in great shape after 1997, but he had assembled a roster with a handful of excellent players that were great building blocks - Strahan, Armstead, Tiki, Toomer, Hamilton, Sehorn.


It certainly was not as bad as some seem to think. Also Ron Stone in FA and Fassel was a pretty good coach imo.
It was a very top-heavy roster  
Greg from LI : 10/9/2019 12:06 pm : link
Some very good players and a couple of great ones, but a lot of holes as well.
RE: I didn't like her...  
Chris in Philly : 10/9/2019 12:10 pm : link
In comment 14619624 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...but I doubt she really meant that, or that the wishes that people get cancer were serious, or the threat that someone would like to see me dead on a cold slab (which I will, FWIW).


She said she was happy he was dead. And one of us said wait you literally mean that? And she said yes. It was one of the strangest things I have ever seen here...
RE: Belongs in the HOF....  
bw in dc : 10/9/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14619838 BillKo said:
Quote:

Best line: "You could know nothing about football and watch Lawrence Taylor for 10 minutes and realize he's the best player on the field".


He loved his "elephants" too. When the OL would walk onto the practice field Young would said say, "Here comes the elephants..."
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