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NFT: Matt Lauer accused of 2014 rape

DanMetroMan : 10/9/2019 9:59 am
“Matt Lauer’s conduct was appalling, horrific and reprehensible, as we said at the time,” NBC News said in a statement. “That’s why he was fired within 24 hours of us first learning of the complaint. Our hearts break again for our colleague.”


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IMO Lauer's best defense  
Bubba : 10/9/2019 12:01 pm : link
is the fact my 93 year mother could probably kick his ass. Why didn't she?
Back dooring a work buddy  
averagejoe : 10/9/2019 12:46 pm : link
Poor Matt - when you tomcat around there is no telling what your mistresses will say or do. He is reaping what he has sown.

Of course - he still has millions left and I doubt he has any trouble finding dates.
RE: RE: Lauer..  
WideRight : 10/9/2019 12:51 pm : link
In comment 14619827 islander1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14619750 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


clearly crossed lines, but you have to ask yourself why an accusation like this gets levied in a book.

And we have really pushed the definition of what is sexual assault. If a woman flips me over and starts riding me hard and I didn't say "Don't" or I don't try to stop her, how is this now considered sexual assault?

Regret or shame for doing an action shouldn't amount to a crime for the person accused



100%.. Between your comment, and Csonka's, it's clear the pendulum has swung the other way completely. It's so bad that now a simple false or exaggerated accusation can literally ruin you as a man. Social media kills people and doesn't care if they were wrong after the fact.

Consensual sex 5 years ago and now you want a re-do? Just go to social media, where every social justice warrior and internet white knight will believe you without a second consideration for the feelings of the man who may ACTUALLY have a fair defense.

We can sit here and judge Lauer as a dirtbag for cheating on his wife yet again, and that's fair. He IS.

However, if I were single or even married as I am and in a social environment where a woman was interested in me, I'd all but RUN in the other direction.

It gets better. Check out the link before, and count how many times you roll your eyes.
Women being punished by men for #metoo - ( New Window )


They are not being punished, but their newfound ability to crush a company overnight has burdened them with very high opportunity costs, so they aren't worth shit in the workplace.

A safe company would not promote or hire anyone with that much risk. Its pretty simple
I wonder how much $$ she wants  
PatersonPlank : 10/9/2019 12:52 pm : link
.
RE: I wonder how much $$ she wants  
Jim in Tampa : 10/9/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14619945 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
.

According to the Today Show this morning, NBC has already made a "7-figure" settlement.

Normally I believe the woman but some troubling facts:

-She went back to his hotel room twice.

-The alleged rape occurred during the second visit

-After the alleged rape Lauer asked her if she enjoyed it and she said "yes".

-They had sex multiple times after that initial encounter.

She claimed she felt she had to comply with Lauer's on-going sexual advances because he had power over her (meaning he could get her fired). But would a woman really continue to have sex with a man who raped her just to keep her job?

Given these facts I would guess that if this was a criminal case Lauer would not have been charged.
Some of the responses...  
Chris in Philly : 10/9/2019 1:46 pm : link
are exactly why so many women never come out about these things...
RE: RE: RE: FOX News isn't the only fucked up place to work huh.  
BillKo : 10/9/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14619785 GMAN4LIFE said:
Quote:
In comment 14619755 gtt350 said:


Quote:


In comment 14619741 GMAN4LIFE said:


Quote:


.



you must mean CNN



seems like all of them have some shit to them


Commonality: Men.
Met him at  
GMAN56 : 10/9/2019 2:03 pm : link
my second job and he was a nice guy. This was last year and he was with his kids, so for his kids sake I had him go to an area that nobody would really see him and then I was in the elevator alone with him. Had me thinking...did he really do what he was accused of? You just never know what someone really does in their private life.
RE: Some of the responses...  
WideRight : 10/9/2019 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14620046 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
are exactly why so many women never come out about these things...


And since the accusation is without merit, she should never have come out with it.

People who file false accusations should have to bear a punishment equal to that would have been given to the accused. There's a horrendous imbalance of power that needs to be corrected.
RE: RE: Some of the responses...  
Chris in Philly : 10/9/2019 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14620121 WideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 14620046 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:


are exactly why so many women never come out about these things...



And since the accusation is without merit, she should never have come out with it.

People who file false accusations should have to bear a punishment equal to that would have been given to the accused. There's a horrendous imbalance of power that needs to be corrected.


And you know the accusation is without merit...how?
surprised this hasn't come up  
Mattman : 10/9/2019 2:55 pm : link
I don't know if Lauer did it or not...  
bw in dc : 10/9/2019 3:13 pm : link
but too much of society has wrongly twisted our justice system to where the accused is guilty until proven innocent.

And that is so far over the line wrong that we should be embarrassed as a society that this is where we have landed. It's just too dangerous.
Again...  
Dunedin81 : 10/9/2019 3:23 pm : link
There are issues with some of the MeToo allegations, without question. Aziz Ansari's, for example, involved accusations that even if true were boorish at worst, and maybe not even that. But Lauer has been accused by 10+ women of sexual misconduct, harassment and worse, and has admitted to some of it. He is not the exemplar for a man wronged by MeToo.
Is an accusation..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 3:25 pm : link
with merit if only one side feels wronged and never intimated that at the time?

I mean that is what this boils down to. Let's take the story at face value. The woman went to Lauer's apartment. He had anal sex with her. She didn't resist. Didn't ask him to stop. Didn't even stop having sex with him later on. But afterwards, she felt assaulted. You really can't base accusations like this off of regret and shame

Sexual assault is meant to capture an unwanted sexual advance that was done against another's will. The victim has a responsibility to make it clear she didn't want to have sex. She has a responsibility to make the accused aware of her mindset. She probably has a responsibility to go to the authorities.

Having this come out in the form of a book, places the entire accusation in question, not to mention the other aspects.
And Lauer..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 3:26 pm : link
isn't wronged by MeToo.

He's just being accused on a very flimsy premise, regardless of what he's done otherwise.
RE: I don't know if Lauer did it or not...  
Mr. Bungle : 10/9/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14620169 bw in dc said:
Quote:
but too much of society has wrongly twisted our justice system to where the accused is guilty until proven innocent.

And that is so far over the line wrong that we should be embarrassed as a society that this is where we have landed. It's just too dangerous.

That's not true. The justice system is the courts, not social media.
was it  
AndyMilligan : 10/9/2019 3:39 pm : link
worth it??

you decide.. looks like a fun romp at the very least..

RE: RE: I don't know if Lauer did it or not...  
bw in dc : 10/9/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14620191 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14620169 bw in dc said:


Quote:


but too much of society has wrongly twisted our justice system to where the accused is guilty until proven innocent.

And that is so far over the line wrong that we should be embarrassed as a society that this is where we have landed. It's just too dangerous.


That's not true. The justice system is the courts, not social media.


Technically, yes. But don't underestimate the court of public opinion. It's a real force.
A lot of MeToo didn't involve accusations of violent rape...  
Dunedin81 : 10/9/2019 4:15 pm : link
it involved accusations of powerful men leveraging their positions to get sexual gratification from people who were either expressly unwilling or who felt they had no choice but to submit because their careers depended on it. Is the latter criminal sexual assault? Not usually. But that doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean that the entities who cut ties with these men were wrong to do so.
Dune +1 as usual  
idiotsavant : 10/9/2019 5:07 pm : link
What he said. Lauers no poster boy for fairness. Guys a dirtbag.

As regarding fmic's disturbing "flip me over" comment.

If the dude is 6' 195 or 200lbs and the female is 5'9" 120lbs, yes, if dude flips her "and rides her hard", in your words, yes, that very well might be rape, if she doesn't clearly indicate sex, agree to it. Duh.

If it's you, getting flipped, if your stronger and you could easily throw her off, ok, not rape. That example was a little disturbing and vulgar coming from an adult man.
Wait..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 5:24 pm : link
are you saying that rape comes down to strength?? So a female bodybuilder couldn't ne raped if she could fling off her attacker?

And you think my comment was disturbing??

A woman who does not indicate she's not willing to have sex and isn't forced against her will isn't raped. There has to be some indication she doesn't want to have sex for that to be the case. You can't go back days later (months or years) and say that you didn't want to have sex so it is an assault.

And if there is one troubling aspect of the MeToo movement, it is that.

Lauer can be a scumbag and also not a rapist.
FMIC.....this is exactly what the second Navy training adressed  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/9/2019 5:29 pm : link
If you don't ask for consent the entire way through its Sexual Assault. Of course you won't get to that point because 90 percent of women will think you are a giant pussy who is ruining the moment.
True about lauer, fmic  
idiotsavant : 10/9/2019 6:27 pm : link
But you seemed to be saying in the 'flip' thing that it's the same for big dudes as it is for little ladies and it just isn't.

In the flip example a man's experience would typically be very different from a woman's .

And nobodies a mind reader, each person is different, so, especially if there is a physical or financial or career power imbalance than the onus to get an honest non pressured verbal is greater, no?

I mean, maybe it's great, but you really don't know . Regardless of prior success in such activities .

In the 'flip' thing it's definitely not equal both ways.

That's why in the military  
idiotsavant : 10/9/2019 6:31 pm : link
There is often rank at issue. So there again, this isn't by definition among equals. So that's why verbal becomes more important.



RE: That's why in the military  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/9/2019 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14620388 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
There is often rank at issue. So there again, this isn't by definition among equals. So that's why verbal becomes more important.




Well anything not within your rank or a direct superior is considered fraternization punishable by the UCMJ, so they don't really have that issue. You do it and get caught you are going on restriction. This was for general usage.
Cool  
idiotsavant : 10/9/2019 6:48 pm : link
Suggest the convo could be part of the seduction.

"Please, please please baaaaby"
I was going to start out with a joke before -  
short lease : 10/9/2019 7:18 pm : link
I launched a tirade. But, then I was thinking that this was kinda not funny.

Talk about a guy who didn't look or sound or act (he seemed like a big pussy to me who would not hurt a fly) ... the part.

Talk about "The Monster next Door"

If this story is true - throw him in PRISON for years and she should get a 7 figure payout.

He is nothing but, punk bully predator of women - who broke the law (if the story is true).


definitely a tough spot and Lauer seems like trash, but  
madgiantscow009 : 10/9/2019 7:24 pm : link
as Carl would say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
...  
christian : 10/9/2019 7:36 pm : link
If you're in a sexual situation with someone, it's not hard to seek out verbal and non-verbal cues of consent. If you're in a circumstance where it's become difficult to perceive those cues, you should stop.

It might not be illegal, but it's sure as hell shitty if you don't.

Both parties should be ensuring each other are consenting to everything that is happening. Anything short of that is totally unacceptable. That that's even a debate is a problem.
Similar to military  
idiotsavant : 10/9/2019 8:04 pm : link
The old college professor thing is very problematic.

Even with consent, even if the professor says 'it won't effect appraisals in the class either way'.

Bullshit.

The implications are there, you refrain because it may not be the case next time, for one vs for another. The implied or real power imbalance or implied or stated quid pro quo.

Also even the effect of that thing going on on the young people NOT involved , it also becomes a scummy shitty situation for any regular kids who aren't banging the professors .

At very least, and that's not even considering the possible negative effects on those directly involved.

Even when it's not clearly rape, that sort of stuff can create a really shitty environment broadly in an organization
It can also lead..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 8:10 pm : link
to a lifelong relationship.

A junior professor of mine dated a student. He was 24 at the time - she was 22.

They are now married with 3 kids. That's why assumptions about what should and shouldn't happen as a hard rule really add nothing.
Imagine your some little dude  
idiotsavant : 10/9/2019 8:21 pm : link
5'9". 120 lbs. Shy. Quiet .

But your really into biology or history or whatever. Finally your out if that silly high school social game and you get to be in an environment where people care about ideas .

But NO. Same shit, folks banging professors, tall dudes and girls with short dresses.

The thing is: the metoo movement may be helping us create a more polite and civil environment and maybe that environment will also be more congenial for the incels and little dudes who just love their study subjects. Or at work. Etc.

So it may be helping guys we just don't know it yet.
RE: Similar to military  
MetsAreBack : 10/9/2019 8:36 pm : link
In comment 14620471 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
The old college professor thing is very problematic.

Even with consent, even if the professor says 'it won't effect appraisals in the class either way'.

Bullshit.

The implications are there, you refrain because it may not be the case next time, for one vs for another. The implied or real power imbalance or implied or stated quid pro quo.

Also even the effect of that thing going on on the young people NOT involved , it also becomes a scummy shitty situation for any regular kids who aren't banging the professors .

At very least, and that's not even considering the possible negative effects on those directly involved.

Even when it's not clearly rape, that sort of stuff can create a really shitty environment broadly in an organization


The professor-student thing is akin to a boss and subordinate. My understanding in this case is Lauer was never her boss.

As for CiPs take above - we are discussing this today because this charge was made or reiterated in a book as part of a publicity tour that Lauer is certainly not promoting. And yet the take is this is why woman don’t speak up? Wut?

I’m most troubled by nbc’s need to issue a statement today. Why? And They are also apparently proud of themselves for firing him ‘within 24 hours of the accusation’? Ie they didn’t investigate it (unless they are lying and knee about it for more than 24 hours)..... but found him / behavior reprehensible anyway. Seems unnecessary pile on and if Lauer believes he has a case I do hope he fights back and seeks defamation charges
What??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/9/2019 8:47 pm : link
Quote:
But NO. Same shit, folks banging professors, tall dudes and girls with short dresses.


Or, you can be a Junior Mechnical Engineering Professor that looks a little like Bill Gates and date a girl who is a Chemical Engineer, 2 years younger who looks mostly like Mayim Bialik.

It is exactly the reason you don't make sweeping conclusions - or draw some ridiculous parallel to banging people and short skirts.
AndyMilligan  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/9/2019 9:00 pm : link
Your post is one of the more disturbing I've ever seen on BBI. Think before you type.
RE: RE: RE: Some of the responses...  
section125 : 10/9/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14620144 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 14620121 WideRight said:


Quote:


In comment 14620046 Chris in Philly said:


Quote:


are exactly why so many women never come out about these things...



And since the accusation is without merit, she should never have come out with it.

People who file false accusations should have to bear a punishment equal to that would have been given to the accused. There's a horrendous imbalance of power that needs to be corrected.



And you know the accusation is without merit...how?


And you know it has merit, how?

Chris, if she keeps showing up numerous times afterward, on her own, then it is pretty hard to believe, wouldn't you say?
RE: ...  
islander1 : 10/9/2019 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14620455 christian said:
Quote:
If you're in a sexual situation with someone, it's not hard to seek out verbal and non-verbal cues of consent. If you're in a circumstance where it's become difficult to perceive those cues, you should stop.

It might not be illegal, but it's sure as hell shitty if you don't.

Both parties should be ensuring each other are consenting to everything that is happening. Anything short of that is totally unacceptable. That that's even a debate is a problem.


What happens when this indeed happens ("Both parties should be ensuring each other are consenting to everything that is happening.")

everything's kosher. A long time later, one party (it's not always the female, right?) decides it's not and makes a claim months or years after the fact?
RE: Isn't anal  
japanhead : 10/10/2019 2:24 am : link
In comment 14619813 fkap said:
Quote:
what got Tyson in trouble?

If they had just stuck it in the other hole, no harm/no foul.
At least that's the way the Lauer accuser makes it sound.


if im not mistaken, tyson got in trouble for eating pussy. her claim was that he "forced oral" on her.

patrice oneal had a good bit on this back in the day.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 10/10/2019 2:58 am : link
1) Nobody here knows the facts.

2) The account I just heard does have her saying no several times. It seems like she was saying no specifically to anal, which i.s what he kept asking for and then he just proceeded to go through with it. IF this is true, that is rape.

3) Again, all hearsay right now, but his written response sounds very much like victim blaming, which is common in rape cases.
RE: A few thoughts  
AndyMilligan : 10/10/2019 3:07 am : link
In comment 14620664 Matt M. said:
Quote:
1) Nobody here knows the facts.

2) The account I just heard does have her saying no several times. It seems like she was saying no specifically to anal, which i.s what he kept asking for and then he just proceeded to go through with it. IF this is true, that is rape.

3) Again, all hearsay right now, but his written response sounds very much like victim blaming, which is common in rape cases.


Not only don't we know now, we'll never know. Our only recourse is to ignore it while authorities and lawyers and publicists do whatever they do. This is the era we live in. Some guys think they're getting laid while at the same time some chick (maybe) thinks she's being raped. Who the hell knows. The rules are changing. I'm glad I'm married and don't have to think about it.
The criticisms seem to take one of two lines...  
Dunedin81 : 10/10/2019 12:30 pm : link
either lamenting the lack of due process or any sort of evidentiary standard for a public shaming (canceling, if you will) or complaining about what constitutes sexual misconduct. The former concerns are relatively reasonable and enduring. The latter concerns are something else entirely. I don't mean to suggest that they are never without merit, but quasi-predatory behavior on the part of powerful people does not become acceptable merely because the less powerful person doesn't say no. It may not be criminal, but that doesn't make it right. And it's not a coincidence that people like Weinstein and Lauer who are accused of wielding quid pro quo leverage have also been accused of not taking no for an answer.
RE: The criticisms seem to take one of two lines...  
Matt M. : 10/10/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14621104 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
either lamenting the lack of due process or any sort of evidentiary standard for a public shaming (canceling, if you will) or complaining about what constitutes sexual misconduct. The former concerns are relatively reasonable and enduring. The latter concerns are something else entirely. I don't mean to suggest that they are never without merit, but quasi-predatory behavior on the part of powerful people does not become acceptable merely because the less powerful person doesn't say no. It may not be criminal, but that doesn't make it right. And it's not a coincidence that people like Weinstein and Lauer who are accused of wielding quid pro quo leverage have also been accused of not taking no for an answer.
Very well-put.
If I understand it correctly........  
Phil in Joisey : 10/10/2019 5:03 pm : link
Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship.
One night it might have gotten a little rough and she
may have said she didn't really want to go that route.
However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening.
Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them?
Case dismissed!
RE: If I understand it correctly........  
Matt M. : 10/10/2019 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14621570 Phil in Joisey said:
Quote:
Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship.
One night it might have gotten a little rough and she
may have said she didn't really want to go that route.
However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening.
Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them?
Case dismissed!
That is not the situation. First of all, if you believe her account, she was not consenting. He asked to do perform a specific act repeatedly and she repeatedly said no. He did it anyway. That is rape. Second, again, if you believe her account, their physical relationship continued after because of her fear of retribution based on his position of power/authority. Third, and related to #2, this is not uncommon and doesn't diminish the possibility that the specific night in question a rape was committed.
RE: RE: If I understand it correctly........  
Matt M. : 10/10/2019 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14621617 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 14621570 Phil in Joisey said:


Quote:


Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship.
One night it might have gotten a little rough and she
may have said she didn't really want to go that route.
However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening.
Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them?
Case dismissed!

That is not the situation. First of all, if you believe her account, she was not consenting. He asked to do perform a specific act repeatedly and she repeatedly said no. He did it anyway. That is rape. Second, again, if you believe her account, their physical relationship continued after because of her fear of retribution based on his position of power/authority. Third, and related to #2, this is not uncommon and doesn't diminish the possibility that the specific night in question a rape was committed.
And, your take is very outdated and barbaric.
RE: If I understand it correctly........  
Mad Mike : 10/10/2019 6:26 pm : link
In comment 14621570 Phil in Joisey said:
Quote:
Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship.
One night it might have gotten a little rough and she
may have said she didn't really want to go that route.
However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening.
Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them?
Case dismissed!

That is some kind of quality take.
Farrow says he has evidence...  
Dunedin81 : 10/11/2019 2:16 pm : link
that NBC was paying off Lauer accusers for years before the story broke.
Link - ( New Window )
Farrow isn't some scrub...  
Chris in Philly : 10/11/2019 3:28 pm : link
hes one of the best investigative reporters out there...
RE: Farrow says he has evidence...  
MetsAreBack : 10/11/2019 8:53 pm : link
In comment 14624944 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
that NBC was paying off Lauer accusers for years before the story broke. Link - ( New Window )


Again - as I said earlier - I am much much more troubled by NBCs need to opine on this, on someone who doesn’t work for them (I don’t think she does either?... than anything else here. It’s really odd behavior.

This account makes much more sense - that they actually knew for years but paid people off and are now trying to cover their ass. Why else would they fire a star ‘within 24 hours’? You couldn’t possibly collect facts within 24 hours or do any kind of internal HR investigation that everyone at any company would get as a matter of simple courtesy.

Yes Lauer May be a scumbag - so was Sandusky. I’m now interested to know who all the joe paternos are. This story just got a lot more interesting.
As bad as Lauer looks, NBC looks just as bad  
Eric on Li : 10/12/2019 10:16 am : link
great article from the veteran NBC News producer who was working on the story for a year with Farrow on all the different interactions NBC execs took to stop their reporting on Weinstein, potentially because he was leveraging information he had on what Lauer was up to.

And to those giving Lauer the benefit of doubt, here's a named quote that goes beyond the rumors of whatever other accusers made complaints over the years (though I'm sure more of that will eventually come out).

Quote:
It should be noted that years earlier, former NBC anchor Ann Curry—fired from Today by network executives in 2012, after clashing with Lauer—had alerted NBC management about Lauer’s misconduct after a female employee told her she had been “sexually harassed physically” by Lauer. “I told management they had a problem,” Curry told the Washington Post, “and they needed to keep an eye on him and how he deals with women.”


Really hard to look at this from an institutional level and not see similarities to PSU in how they circled the wagons.
“You are to stand down”: How NBC Killed Its Weinstein Story - ( New Window )
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