NFT: Matt Lauer accused of 2014 rape

There is often rank at issue. So there again, this isn't by definition among equals. So that's why verbal becomes more important.

In comment 14620388 idiotsavant said:

Quote:

There is often rank at issue. So there again, this isn't by definition among equals. So that's why verbal becomes more important.

Well anything not within your rank or a direct superior is considered fraternization punishable by the UCMJ, so they don't really have that issue. You do it and get caught you are going on restriction. This was for general usage.

Suggest the convo could be part of the seduction.

"Please, please please baaaaby"

I launched a tirade. But, then I was thinking that this was kinda not funny.

Talk about a guy who didn't look or sound or act (he seemed like a big pussy to me who would not hurt a fly) ... the part.

Talk about "The Monster next Door"

If this story is true - throw him in PRISON for years and she should get a 7 figure payout.

He is nothing but, punk bully predator of women - who broke the law (if the story is true).

as Carl would say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

If you're in a sexual situation with someone, it's not hard to seek out verbal and non-verbal cues of consent. If you're in a circumstance where it's become difficult to perceive those cues, you should stop.

It might not be illegal, but it's sure as hell shitty if you don't.

Both parties should be ensuring each other are consenting to everything that is happening. Anything short of that is totally unacceptable. That that's even a debate is a problem.

The old college professor thing is very problematic.

Even with consent, even if the professor says 'it won't effect appraisals in the class either way'.

Bullshit.

The implications are there, you refrain because it may not be the case next time, for one vs for another. The implied or real power imbalance or implied or stated quid pro quo.

Also even the effect of that thing going on on the young people NOT involved , it also becomes a scummy shitty situation for any regular kids who aren't banging the professors .

At very least, and that's not even considering the possible negative effects on those directly involved.

Even when it's not clearly rape, that sort of stuff can create a really shitty environment broadly in an organization

to a lifelong relationship.

A junior professor of mine dated a student. He was 24 at the time - she was 22.

They are now married with 3 kids. That's why assumptions about what should and shouldn't happen as a hard rule really add nothing.

5'9". 120 lbs. Shy. Quiet .

But your really into biology or history or whatever. Finally your out if that silly high school social game and you get to be in an environment where people care about ideas .

But NO. Same shit, folks banging professors, tall dudes and girls with short dresses.

The thing is: the metoo movement may be helping us create a more polite and civil environment and maybe that environment will also be more congenial for the incels and little dudes who just love their study subjects. Or at work. Etc.

So it may be helping guys we just don't know it yet.

In comment 14620471 idiotsavant said:

Quote:

The old college professor thing is very problematic. Even with consent, even if the professor says 'it won't effect appraisals in the class either way'. Bullshit. The implications are there, you refrain because it may not be the case next time, for one vs for another. The implied or real power imbalance or implied or stated quid pro quo. Also even the effect of that thing going on on the young people NOT involved , it also becomes a scummy shitty situation for any regular kids who aren't banging the professors . At very least, and that's not even considering the possible negative effects on those directly involved. Even when it's not clearly rape, that sort of stuff can create a really shitty environment broadly in an organization

The professor-student thing is akin to a boss and subordinate. My understanding in this case is Lauer was never her boss.

As for CiPs take above - we are discussing this today because this charge was made or reiterated in a book as part of a publicity tour that Lauer is certainly not promoting. And yet the take is this is why woman don’t speak up? Wut?

I’m most troubled by nbc’s need to issue a statement today. Why? And They are also apparently proud of themselves for firing him ‘within 24 hours of the accusation’? Ie they didn’t investigate it (unless they are lying and knee about it for more than 24 hours)..... but found him / behavior reprehensible anyway. Seems unnecessary pile on and if Lauer believes he has a case I do hope he fights back and seeks defamation charges

Quote:

But NO. Same shit, folks banging professors, tall dudes and girls with short dresses.

Or, you can be a Junior Mechnical Engineering Professor that looks a little like Bill Gates and date a girl who is a Chemical Engineer, 2 years younger who looks mostly like Mayim Bialik.

It is exactly the reason you don't make sweeping conclusions - or draw some ridiculous parallel to banging people and short skirts.

Your post is one of the more disturbing I've ever seen on BBI. Think before you type.

In comment 14620144 Chris in Philly said:

Quote:

In comment 14620121 WideRight said: Quote: In comment 14620046 Chris in Philly said: Quote: are exactly why so many women never come out about these things... And since the accusation is without merit, she should never have come out with it. People who file false accusations should have to bear a punishment equal to that would have been given to the accused. There's a horrendous imbalance of power that needs to be corrected. And you know the accusation is without merit...how?

And you know it has merit, how?

Chris, if she keeps showing up numerous times afterward, on her own, then it is pretty hard to believe, wouldn't you say?

In comment 14620455 christian said:

Quote:

If you're in a sexual situation with someone, it's not hard to seek out verbal and non-verbal cues of consent. If you're in a circumstance where it's become difficult to perceive those cues, you should stop. It might not be illegal, but it's sure as hell shitty if you don't. Both parties should be ensuring each other are consenting to everything that is happening. Anything short of that is totally unacceptable. That that's even a debate is a problem.

What happens when this indeed happens ("Both parties should be ensuring each other are consenting to everything that is happening.")

everything's kosher. A long time later, one party (it's not always the female, right?) decides it's not and makes a claim months or years after the fact?

In comment 14619813 fkap said:

Quote:

what got Tyson in trouble? If they had just stuck it in the other hole, no harm/no foul. At least that's the way the Lauer accuser makes it sound.

if im not mistaken, tyson got in trouble for eating pussy. her claim was that he "forced oral" on her.

patrice oneal had a good bit on this back in the day.

1) Nobody here knows the facts.

2) The account I just heard does have her saying no several times. It seems like she was saying no specifically to anal, which i.s what he kept asking for and then he just proceeded to go through with it. IF this is true, that is rape.

3) Again, all hearsay right now, but his written response sounds very much like victim blaming, which is common in rape cases.

In comment 14620664 Matt M. said:

Quote:

1) Nobody here knows the facts. 2) The account I just heard does have her saying no several times. It seems like she was saying no specifically to anal, which i.s what he kept asking for and then he just proceeded to go through with it. IF this is true, that is rape. 3) Again, all hearsay right now, but his written response sounds very much like victim blaming, which is common in rape cases.

Not only don't we know now, we'll never know. Our only recourse is to ignore it while authorities and lawyers and publicists do whatever they do. This is the era we live in. Some guys think they're getting laid while at the same time some chick (maybe) thinks she's being raped. Who the hell knows. The rules are changing. I'm glad I'm married and don't have to think about it.

either lamenting the lack of due process or any sort of evidentiary standard for a public shaming (canceling, if you will) or complaining about what constitutes sexual misconduct. The former concerns are relatively reasonable and enduring. The latter concerns are something else entirely. I don't mean to suggest that they are never without merit, but quasi-predatory behavior on the part of powerful people does not become acceptable merely because the less powerful person doesn't say no. It may not be criminal, but that doesn't make it right. And it's not a coincidence that people like Weinstein and Lauer who are accused of wielding quid pro quo leverage have also been accused of not taking no for an answer.

In comment 14621104 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

either lamenting the lack of due process or any sort of evidentiary standard for a public shaming (canceling, if you will) or complaining about what constitutes sexual misconduct. The former concerns are relatively reasonable and enduring. The latter concerns are something else entirely. I don't mean to suggest that they are never without merit, but quasi-predatory behavior on the part of powerful people does not become acceptable merely because the less powerful person doesn't say no. It may not be criminal, but that doesn't make it right. And it's not a coincidence that people like Weinstein and Lauer who are accused of wielding quid pro quo leverage have also been accused of not taking no for an answer.

Very well-put.

Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship.
One night it might have gotten a little rough and she
may have said she didn't really want to go that route.
However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening.
Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them?
Case dismissed!

In comment 14621570 Phil in Joisey said:

Quote:

Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship. One night it might have gotten a little rough and she may have said she didn't really want to go that route. However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening. Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them? Case dismissed!

That is not the situation. First of all, if you believe her account, she was not consenting. He asked to do perform a specific act repeatedly and she repeatedly said no. He did it anyway. That is rape. Second, again, if you believe her account, their physical relationship continued after because of her fear of retribution based on his position of power/authority. Third, and related to #2, this is not uncommon and doesn't diminish the possibility that the specific night in question a rape was committed.

In comment 14621617 Matt M. said:

Quote:

In comment 14621570 Phil in Joisey said: Quote: Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship. One night it might have gotten a little rough and she may have said she didn't really want to go that route. However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening. Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them? Case dismissed! That is not the situation. First of all, if you believe her account, she was not consenting. He asked to do perform a specific act repeatedly and she repeatedly said no. He did it anyway. That is rape. Second, again, if you believe her account, their physical relationship continued after because of her fear of retribution based on his position of power/authority. Third, and related to #2, this is not uncommon and doesn't diminish the possibility that the specific night in question a rape was committed.

And, your take is very outdated and barbaric.

In comment 14621570 Phil in Joisey said:

Quote:

Two consenting adults engaged in a sexual relationship. One night it might have gotten a little rough and she may have said she didn't really want to go that route. However,the consenting sexual relationship continued for quite a period of time after that evening. Who would willingly continue their sexual relationship with someone who raped them? Case dismissed!

That is some kind of quality take.

that NBC was paying off Lauer accusers for years before the story broke.
Link - ( New Window )

hes one of the best investigative reporters out there...

In comment 14624944 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

that NBC was paying off Lauer accusers for years before the story broke. Link - ( New Window )

Again - as I said earlier - I am much much more troubled by NBCs need to opine on this, on someone who doesn’t work for them (I don’t think she does either?... than anything else here. It’s really odd behavior.

This account makes much more sense - that they actually knew for years but paid people off and are now trying to cover their ass. Why else would they fire a star ‘within 24 hours’? You couldn’t possibly collect facts within 24 hours or do any kind of internal HR investigation that everyone at any company would get as a matter of simple courtesy.

Yes Lauer May be a scumbag - so was Sandusky. I’m now interested to know who all the joe paternos are. This story just got a lot more interesting.

great article from the veteran NBC News producer who was working on the story for a year with Farrow on all the different interactions NBC execs took to stop their reporting on Weinstein, potentially because he was leveraging information he had on what Lauer was up to.

And to those giving Lauer the benefit of doubt, here's a named quote that goes beyond the rumors of whatever other accusers made complaints over the years (though I'm sure more of that will eventually come out).

Quote:

It should be noted that years earlier, former NBC anchor Ann Curry—fired from Today by network executives in 2012, after clashing with Lauer—had alerted NBC management about Lauer’s misconduct after a female employee told her she had been “sexually harassed physically” by Lauer. “I told management they had a problem,” Curry told the Washington Post, “and they needed to keep an eye on him and how he deals with women.”

Really hard to look at this from an institutional level and not see similarities to PSU in how they circled the wagons.
“You are to stand down”: How NBC Killed Its Weinstein Story - ( New Window )