"Atlanta Braves to reduce Tomahawk Chop in Game 5"
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ATLANTA -- The Atlanta Braves have heard the complaints and are taking action to "reduce the Tomahawk Chop" for Game 5 of the National League Division Series against the St. Louis Cardinals on Wednesday.
The decision is a response to recent concerns voiced by Cardinals reliever Ryan Helsley, who is a member of the Cherokee Nation and expressed displeasure with the chop during Games 1 and 2 in Atlanta.
For a vet or an older guy, I'd get it... but Flaherty's 151 innings last year were his high watermark - he's only 23. He's up over 200 innings this year now with the postseason included and obviously they're going to want to continue to utilize him for as long as they keep going. He can very feasibly wind up ~75 innings over his workload from last year which would be a pretty large increase.
Might ultimately not matter... just feels like Schildt could have saved him some bullets by taking him out an inning or two earlier with a lead this big. But, I guess he didn't want to chance it.
Snitker should be cleaning out his desk tomorrow Â
This game makes me greatful for the job Girardi and Boone have done for the Yankees. When Severino got torched by the Twins a couple of years, ace or no ace, he was yanked after a 1/3 of an inning and Girardi went right to his short relievers starting with Green.
I don't know enough about Braves baseball to say who should have started this game, but what kind of an idiot leaves a pitcher in to get raked like that in an elimination game. The absolute latest he should have hooked was after that bases loaded walk, earlier if it was obvious he didn't have his stuff.
Idiotic move #2. Bottom of the 3rd, game is probably out of reach, but there still is a lot of baseball left. He lets his pitcher lead off the inning ? In 50 years of watching baseball I've never seen that in a blowout game! If he really, really, really needed to keep Tomlin in there, he should have done a double switch.
RE: RE: I taped the game and was going to watch it later Â
kind of a dick move by you. Could have done the thread without putting the score in the title. And no, I'm not a bitter Braves fan just happen to live in Atlanta
When was the last time a team overcame a 12 run deficit in a postseason game, though? Especially 4-5 innings through. 20 years ago?
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
When was the last time a team overcame a 12 run deficit in a postseason game, though? Especially 4-5 innings through. 20 years ago?
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
I’d have taken him out after the second inning, or sooner. Not talking about. 5-6 run lead. Less than a 1% chance that bites you in the ass, which pales in comparison to what getting Flaherty for potentially games 1-4-7 does to your chances to win the ALCS, in probability terms.
When was the last time a team overcame a 12 run deficit in a postseason game, though? Especially 4-5 innings through. 20 years ago?
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
I’d have taken him out after the second inning, or sooner. Not talking about. 5-6 run lead. Less than a 1% chance that bites you in the ass, which pales in comparison to what getting Flaherty for potentially games 1-4-7 does to your chances to win the ALCS, in probability terms.
Well if you’re argument is you want the kid for 3 games in a Nlcs (no clue how you get there as game 1 is in two days...) then innings limits and young arm have nothing to do with anything (which is what the original post/concern was about)
But hey maybe watching the Mets bullpen all year including blowing a 10-3 I think it was 9th inning lead in DC a month ago has made me appreciate the bill Bellicheck school of stepping on your opponents throat when it happens more so than it would have a year ago. Especially in an elimination game.
When was the last time a team overcame a 12 run deficit in a postseason game, though? Especially 4-5 innings through. 20 years ago?
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
I’d have taken him out after the second inning, or sooner. Not talking about. 5-6 run lead. Less than a 1% chance that bites you in the ass, which pales in comparison to what getting Flaherty for potentially games 1-4-7 does to your chances to win the ALCS, in probability terms.
Well if you’re argument is you want the kid for 3 games in a Nlcs (no clue how you get there as game 1 is in two days...) then innings limits and young arm have nothing to do with anything (which is what the original post/concern was about)
But hey maybe watching the Mets bullpen all year including blowing a 10-3 I think it was 9th inning lead in DC a month ago has made me appreciate the bill Bellicheck school of stepping on your opponents throat when it happens more so than it would have a year ago. Especially in an elimination game.
Yeah, I’m not worried about innings limit on the NLCS, not my angle at all. If he looks the way he’s looked and says he feel good, we can talk long-term workloads in the offseason. He’s 24 and threw 150+ in 2018. He’s young but not a total puppy.
If he was pulled at ~20 pitches tonight, Friday could easily have been in the conversation. Worst case, Games 2/5 with legitimate availability to play fireman in Game 7.
the 7th on three pitches. Then gives up back to back HRs on consecutive pitches to Rendon and Soto . Game tied 3-3, no outs in the 8th..Nats back in it.
Some guys should just take themselves out of the roster during the playoffs and save the coach and their fans from the frustration. For the Dodgers, that would be Kershaw, Seager, and Jansen. (Bellinger is close....)
kind of a dick move by you. Could have done the thread without putting the score in the title. And no, I'm not a bitter Braves fan just happen to live in Atlanta
you can't lose your season with Joe Kelly on the mound until it's absolutely unavoidable... like the 15th inning. What a disaster for the Dodgers. I wonder if Dave Roberts will be in trouble.
Quite a day for post-season upsets in the National League. Well, Â
the word clutch, but man, Kershaw could have an entire chapter in that book. Had an early meeting so I turned it off just as he was going in, thinking to myself he has to have a short leash and he can't blow it, right?
Nationals have actually been a juggernaut since May Â
They started the season 19-31 and everyone left them for dead. Since that point their record is 78-40 including playoffs. They had the second best run differential in the NL to LA and piled up a run differential of +189 the rest of the regular season after the 19-31 start. Extremely dangerous team
RE: Quite a day for post-season upsets in the National League. Well, Â
the Braves losing in post-season isn't much of an upset.
Haha yup.
I zonked out right before the tenth...good old Howie Kendrick, the former Angel comes through.
Happy to see that jerk Joe Kelly take the loss. I like Dave Roberts, but man, think about the teams he’s had the past 4 years, and just can’t get over the hump. He’s going to get fried for his managing in this one.
Happy to think of that overpaid jerk Bryce Harper sitting home watching his former team finally get it done.
Happy the tri-state native Braves fans (aka poor mans Cowboy fans) see the Braves lose. Again.
Division series have turned out to be beauties so far, aside from Yanks sweep.
stellar career, CY winner, but just a bust in recent post-season play. I liken him a bit to Eli: high character, very likable buy, lucrative contract in his waning years (too lucrative and not good value), struggling as he winds the career down.
RE: I don't give a shit how much Kenley Jansen has struggled this season, Â
you can't lose your season with Joe Kelly on the mound until it's absolutely unavoidable... like the 15th inning. What a disaster for the Dodgers. I wonder if Dave Roberts will be in trouble.
Agreed...and you could make a case that Kershaw should have been yanked to start the eighth. But I he probably wanted the lefty matchup with Soto. But did that backfire.
Feel bad for Kershaw, I really enjoy watching him pitch.
Joe Kelly spits it up. Kendrick's one of those guys who can roll out of bed in January and hit a rope somewhere.
All I could think of watching Kershaw give this game up in the tenth for LA, besides being excited for the Nats, was how happy I was that the Yankees did not pick this guy up during the pitching hysteria earlier this season.
kind of a dick move by you. Could have done the thread without putting the score in the title. And no, I'm not a bitter Braves fan just happen to live in Atlanta
Is this real life?
Right. Everyone else was to shut up about it until he watched his tape. Unreal.
Love, love, LOVE seeing Dave Roberts and Joe Kelly eat shit Â
stellar career, CY winner, but just a bust in recent post-season play. I liken him a bit to Eli: high character, very likable buy, lucrative contract in his waning years (too lucrative and not good value), struggling as he winds the career down.
For me, he's more Peyton than Eli. Extremely good during the regular season and struggles to get over the hump in post season play. Granted Peyton eventually won 2 but thats who I compare his regular season vs post season performance to
The decision is a response to recent concerns voiced by Cardinals reliever Ryan Helsley, who is a member of the Cherokee Nation and expressed displeasure with the chop during Games 1 and 2 in Atlanta.
Looks like the Brave players took up the job themselves - ( New Window )
I was waiting for your post.
And we say Fuck you right back.
Aren't you a Mets fan?
#freetocket!!
How does this cause them to give up 12 runs early in the playoffs?
Sorry I spoiled the top of the first for you.
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Snitker deserves all the blame for his terrible bullpen management and for using Foltynewicz over his best pitcher Soroka for some fucking reason.
How does this cause them to give up 12 runs early in the playoffs?
Seriously? They started Foltynewicz over Soroka
Good ? arc.
Might ultimately not matter... just feels like Schildt could have saved him some bullets by taking him out an inning or two earlier with a lead this big. But, I guess he didn't want to chance it.
I don't know enough about Braves baseball to say who should have started this game, but what kind of an idiot leaves a pitcher in to get raked like that in an elimination game. The absolute latest he should have hooked was after that bases loaded walk, earlier if it was obvious he didn't have his stuff.
Idiotic move #2. Bottom of the 3rd, game is probably out of reach, but there still is a lot of baseball left. He lets his pitcher lead off the inning ? In 50 years of watching baseball I've never seen that in a blowout game! If he really, really, really needed to keep Tomlin in there, he should have done a double switch.
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Thanks for spoiling it asshole.
Sorry I spoiled the top of the first for you.
kind of a dick move by you. Could have done the thread without putting the score in the title. And no, I'm not a bitter Braves fan just happen to live in Atlanta
Because he’s not a dumbass like Mickey Callaway last month? It’s win or go home - you don’t fuck with that
Anyway - Braves fan tears never stop tasting delicious.
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
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Why does Schildt still have Flaherty in @ 100 pitches and a 12 run lead?
Because he’s not a dumbass like Mickey Callaway last month? It’s win or go home - you don’t fuck with that
Anyway - Braves fan tears never stop tasting delicious.
Great handle.
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
I’d have taken him out after the second inning, or sooner. Not talking about. 5-6 run lead. Less than a 1% chance that bites you in the ass, which pales in comparison to what getting Flaherty for potentially games 1-4-7 does to your chances to win the ALCS, in probability terms.
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When was the last time a team overcame a 12 run deficit in a postseason game, though? Especially 4-5 innings through. 20 years ago?
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
I’d have taken him out after the second inning, or sooner. Not talking about. 5-6 run lead. Less than a 1% chance that bites you in the ass, which pales in comparison to what getting Flaherty for potentially games 1-4-7 does to your chances to win the ALCS, in probability terms.
Well if you’re argument is you want the kid for 3 games in a Nlcs (no clue how you get there as game 1 is in two days...) then innings limits and young arm have nothing to do with anything (which is what the original post/concern was about)
But hey maybe watching the Mets bullpen all year including blowing a 10-3 I think it was 9th inning lead in DC a month ago has made me appreciate the bill Bellicheck school of stepping on your opponents throat when it happens more so than it would have a year ago. Especially in an elimination game.
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It’s just fucking pathetic!! Braves suck ass!
Aren't you a Mets fan?
Nope Yankees fan!
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In comment 14620460 arcarsenal said:
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When was the last time a team overcame a 12 run deficit in a postseason game, though? Especially 4-5 innings through. 20 years ago?
They're going to need Flaherty in the NLCS (and if they're fortunate enough to get there, the WS) - he's their best starter. He's already quite far past the innings watermark he set last year.
It's one thing if we're talking about a 5-6 run lead... but 12? I think you're pretty safe at that point. The Braves WP at that point was probably miniscule. I would have gotten him out a bit sooner but that's me.
I’d have taken him out after the second inning, or sooner. Not talking about. 5-6 run lead. Less than a 1% chance that bites you in the ass, which pales in comparison to what getting Flaherty for potentially games 1-4-7 does to your chances to win the ALCS, in probability terms.
Well if you’re argument is you want the kid for 3 games in a Nlcs (no clue how you get there as game 1 is in two days...) then innings limits and young arm have nothing to do with anything (which is what the original post/concern was about)
But hey maybe watching the Mets bullpen all year including blowing a 10-3 I think it was 9th inning lead in DC a month ago has made me appreciate the bill Bellicheck school of stepping on your opponents throat when it happens more so than it would have a year ago. Especially in an elimination game.
Yeah, I’m not worried about innings limit on the NLCS, not my angle at all. If he looks the way he’s looked and says he feel good, we can talk long-term workloads in the offseason. He’s 24 and threw 150+ in 2018. He’s young but not a total puppy.
If he was pulled at ~20 pitches tonight, Friday could easily have been in the conversation. Worst case, Games 2/5 with legitimate availability to play fireman in Game 7.
Some guys should just take themselves out of the roster during the playoffs and save the coach and their fans from the frustration. For the Dodgers, that would be Kershaw, Seager, and Jansen. (Bellinger is close....)
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In comment 14620348 Adam G in Big D said:
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Thanks for spoiling it asshole.
Sorry I spoiled the top of the first for you.
kind of a dick move by you. Could have done the thread without putting the score in the title. And no, I'm not a bitter Braves fan just happen to live in Atlanta
Is this real life?
What a shocker, especially after the Dodgers were up 3-1 late. I’m not sad for Joe Kelly!
Not quite Gleyber, but not bad.
Haha yup.
I zonked out right before the tenth...good old Howie Kendrick, the former Angel comes through.
Happy to see that jerk Joe Kelly take the loss. I like Dave Roberts, but man, think about the teams he’s had the past 4 years, and just can’t get over the hump. He’s going to get fried for his managing in this one.
Happy to think of that overpaid jerk Bryce Harper sitting home watching his former team finally get it done.
Happy the tri-state native Braves fans (aka poor mans Cowboy fans) see the Braves lose. Again.
Division series have turned out to be beauties so far, aside from Yanks sweep.
I actually kind of found myself pulling for the Nats by the end of the series. Fuck Joe Kelly.
Agreed...and you could make a case that Kershaw should have been yanked to start the eighth. But I he probably wanted the lefty matchup with Soto. But did that backfire.
Feel bad for Kershaw, I really enjoy watching him pitch.
All I could think of watching Kershaw give this game up in the tenth for LA, besides being excited for the Nats, was how happy I was that the Yankees did not pick this guy up during the pitching hysteria earlier this season.
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In comment 14620381 Danny Kanell said:
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In comment 14620348 Adam G in Big D said:
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Thanks for spoiling it asshole.
Sorry I spoiled the top of the first for you.
kind of a dick move by you. Could have done the thread without putting the score in the title. And no, I'm not a bitter Braves fan just happen to live in Atlanta
Is this real life?
Right. Everyone else was to shut up about it until he watched his tape. Unreal.
For me, he's more Peyton than Eli. Extremely good during the regular season and struggles to get over the hump in post season play. Granted Peyton eventually won 2 but thats who I compare his regular season vs post season performance to