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New York Giants - New England Patriots Post-Game Discussion

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/10/2019 11:11 pm
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defense played fairly well  
bc4life : 10/10/2019 11:48 pm : link
weakness is the LBs -
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: When you're coached this terribly the roster doesn't matter  
PatersonPlank : 10/10/2019 11:49 pm : link
In comment 14623708 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 14623687 Go Terps said:


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In comment 14623660 speedywheels said:


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In comment 14623601 Go Terps said:


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In comment 14623581 speedywheels said:


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In comment 14623563 Go Terps said:


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We can nail every decision this offseason and it won't matter in 2020 if Shurmur is the coach. Worst coach the Giants have had in my lifetime.





Were you not alive when Handley was coach?



I was, and Shurmur's worse.



No. No he’s not. Not even close. Laughable anyone would even think that.
But we know there’s no getting you off one of your narratives



Not even close?

Shurmur has never won more than 5 games in a season. Handley won 6 in his second year before we fired him. That's not a narrative. Enjoy the moral victory tonight. I'm sure Shurmur will tell us all about it.



Handley was put in an impossible situation but he went 8-8 in year 1 and 6-10 in year two..


Impossible, where we alive then? He took over the Super Bowl winning team, went 8-8 then 6-10. He then was replaced and Reeves immediately went 11-5 in 1993. H**dley was a disaster, and I didn't even go into all his personnel moves. The players hated him
Terps  
Greg from LI : 10/10/2019 11:50 pm : link
Your Handley/Shurmur comparison neatly elides the fact that Handley inherited a 13-3 champion and promptly ran it into the gutter at 8-8 and 6-10. Shurmur, while I agree is a lousy coach, has never had a team remotely as talented as those Giants. You can get your point across without making such a specious comparison.
No one is saying Shurmur is the reason for the loss  
Go Terps : 10/10/2019 11:52 pm : link
What we are saying is that he fucking quit on the game. He also punted on 4th and 5 twice in NE territory. His game management is pathetic. How does he face his fucking team after that last punt?

And this guy is going to lead the turnaround? On what planet?
play calling/time outs and all that stuff  
bluepepper : 10/10/2019 11:53 pm : link
fans always bitch about when a team loses. That and the officiating. Shurmur is probably average at these things but he has little talent right now and so loses a lot of games which makes him seem worse.
If Handley knew when to call a timeout or when to punt, he was better  
Go Terps : 10/10/2019 11:54 pm : link
The bar to pass Shurmur is at ground level.
Well, kind of tough for Terps here  
jcn56 : 10/10/2019 11:54 pm : link
He said Shurmur's the worst he's seen, and someone brought up Handley.

Handley had better players but a vastly better record than Shurmur. Shurmur's record was mud before he got here, and it's basically been the same (his 2 years in Cle - 3-13, 5-11 - last year, 5-11).

He boasts a career .315 winning percentage. It's possible that he's just another career OC who doesn't have what it takes to be a HC.
I want to congratulate the Patriots  
Prude : 10/10/2019 11:55 pm : link
For their ability to make Giants' receiver play with 1 arm all night withouy drawing a flag, even in slow-mo replay. Really incredible performance.
RE: I want to congratulate the Patriots  
V.I.G. : 10/10/2019 11:57 pm : link
In comment 14623795 Prude said:
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For their ability to make Giants' receiver play with 1 arm all night withouy drawing a flag, even in slow-mo replay. Really incredible performance.

Agreed
Like I said on the other thread  
WillVAB : 10/10/2019 11:59 pm : link
Shurmur is a shittier version of Norv Turner.
bottom line  
Big_N : 10/10/2019 11:59 pm : link
Eli wins this game tonight.
On game day threads  
joeinpa : 10/11/2019 12:00 am : link
Both in game and post, several posters would do well to step away from their laptops, phones, etc. before hitting “submit”.

You come across as clueless , emotional and or drunk with your whining.

Many of you predicted a game that would be non competitive. Yet here we were with 8 minutes remaining and the Giants with the ball.

How can you be so negative when they clearly exceeded your expert expectations?
Not really seeing how shurmur is any type of upgrade  
Giantfan21 : 10/11/2019 12:02 am : link
from mcadoofus who everyone wanted run out of town . It's not just about his game. Shurmurs playcalling and use of personnel has been questionable since he got here to go along with his decision making on when to use TO/ when to go for it on 4th down vs punting/when to challenge etc
Vikings had the answer  
Big_N : 10/11/2019 12:03 am : link
and BB saw it. Bringing a delayed ILB blitz on 3rd and long will negate DJ running ,,,a and after that you just have a qb with inconsistent reading ability and throwing behind receivers and picks
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: When you're coached this terribly the roster doesn't matter  
Tom in NY : 10/11/2019 12:03 am : link
In comment 14623708 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 14623687 Go Terps said:


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In comment 14623660 speedywheels said:


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In comment 14623601 Go Terps said:


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In comment 14623581 speedywheels said:


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In comment 14623563 Go Terps said:


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We can nail every decision this offseason and it won't matter in 2020 if Shurmur is the coach. Worst coach the Giants have had in my lifetime.





Were you not alive when Handley was coach?



I was, and Shurmur's worse.



No. No he’s not. Not even close. Laughable anyone would even think that.
But we know there’s no getting you off one of your narratives



Not even close?

Shurmur has never won more than 5 games in a season. Handley won 6 in his second year before we fired him. That's not a narrative. Enjoy the moral victory tonight. I'm sure Shurmur will tell us all about it.



Handley was put in an impossible situation but he went 8-8 in year 1 and 6-10 in year two..


Handley was given a SB winning team, with 2 NFL caliber QBs, and the best NYG in the history of the franchise. He then proceeded to alienate the players, asst. coaches, media, and eventually the GM/Owners. Additionally, his offensive game plans were ponderous...and that's being kind.
Don't ever compare what Shurmur was handed with what Handley was given.
RE: bottom line  
Tom in NY : 10/11/2019 12:05 am : link
In comment 14623812 Big_N said:
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Eli wins this game tonight.


BS...he would have been sacked 7 or 8 times.
Shurmur is a long way from being the worst  
bluepepper : 10/11/2019 12:06 am : link
The guy we had in 91 and 92 was not only the worst in Giants history but among the worst in NFL history. Didn't have the players attention much less their respect. They had tons of talent, veteran leadership and good assistants who carried them to 8-8 one year before the next year's debacle. He was in over his head. Not even his fault - it was the GM's for hiring him and the not canning him after year one when it was obvious.
RE: Truly can't believe the gushing about the defense  
HomerJones45 : 10/11/2019 12:06 am : link
In comment 14623745 Greg from LI said:
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It's clearly been far too long since some of you have seen good defense with the Giants, because that was NOT a good defense out there. They are the most incompetent tacklers I have ever seen, and receivers were wide goddamned open all night long. Pass rush was decent at times, but c'mon - overall, they suck.
+1 Brady was off on a windy night and completed 75% of his passes for over 300 yards.

The Pats had so much respect for the Giants defense that they ran 7 qb sneaks. The D is not good.
RE: RE: Truly can't believe the gushing about the defense  
uconngiant : 10/11/2019 12:08 am : link
In comment 14623836 HomerJones45 said:
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In comment 14623745 Greg from LI said:


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It's clearly been far too long since some of you have seen good defense with the Giants, because that was NOT a good defense out there. They are the most incompetent tacklers I have ever seen, and receivers were wide goddamned open all night long. Pass rush was decent at times, but c'mon - overall, they suck.

+1 Brady was off on a windy night and completed 75% of his passes for over 300 yards.

The Pats had so much respect for the Giants defense that they ran 7 qb sneaks. The D is not good.




They were on the field the entire night or did you miss that. Just curious if you didn't comprehend that
RE: RE: bottom line  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/11/2019 12:11 am : link
In comment 14623831 Tom in NY said:
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In comment 14623812 Big_N said:


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Eli wins this game tonight.



BS...he would have been sacked 7 or 8 times.


That's a trolly troll troll.
Is it supposed to be a point in their favor  
Greg from LI : 10/11/2019 12:11 am : link
That they couldn't get a stop and get off the field to save their lives? Interesting argument.
RE: RE: bottom line  
Big_N : 10/11/2019 12:13 am : link
In comment 14623831 Tom in NY said:
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In comment 14623812 Big_N said:


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Eli wins this game tonight.



BS...he would have been sacked 7 or 8 times.


Yea and if he did it would have been on 3 TD throws and not not interceptions
RE: Is it supposed to be a point in their favor  
HomerJones45 : 10/11/2019 12:16 am : link
In comment 14623845 Greg from LI said:
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That they couldn't get a stop and get off the field to save their lives? Interesting argument.
Incredible that someone would even throw that bullshit argument out there. They were "great" because the Pats offense churned out 27 first downs, 450 yards of offense and that included a 9 minute drive when Nugent clanged a FG off the upright.
RE: RE: RE: Truly can't believe the gushing about the defense  
Big_N : 10/11/2019 12:16 am : link
In comment 14623838 uconngiant said:
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In comment 14623836 HomerJones45 said:


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In comment 14623745 Greg from LI said:


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It's clearly been far too long since some of you have seen good defense with the Giants, because that was NOT a good defense out there. They are the most incompetent tacklers I have ever seen, and receivers were wide goddamned open all night long. Pass rush was decent at times, but c'mon - overall, they suck.

+1 Brady was off on a windy night and completed 75% of his passes for over 300 yards.

The Pats had so much respect for the Giants defense that they ran 7 qb sneaks. The D is not good.





They were on the field the entire night or did you miss that. Just curious if you didn't comprehend that


D played much better than expected / only positive
RE: Shurmur is a long way from being the worst  
Big_N : 10/11/2019 12:21 am : link
In comment 14623834 bluepepper said:
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The guy we had in 91 and 92 was not only the worst in Giants history but among the worst in NFL history. Didn't have the players attention much less their respect. They had tons of talent, veteran leadership and good assistants who carried them to 8-8 one year before the next year's debacle. He was in over his head. Not even his fault - it was the GM's for hiring him and the not canning him after year one when it was obvious.


OK great ... shurmur is only second worst coach in giant history.
..  
BeckShepEli : 10/11/2019 12:29 am : link
34 points in the last 3 games. 0 offensive points in the 2nd half the last 3 games. This offense isn’t clicking.
RE: bottom line  
Nine-Tails : 10/11/2019 12:33 am : link
In comment 14623812 Big_N said:
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Eli wins this game tonight.



Dude Eli's dick is so far into you that you see it from your ass
RE: RE: bottom line  
Big_N : 10/11/2019 12:37 am : link
In comment 14623889 Nine-Tails said:
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In comment 14623812 Big_N said:


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Eli wins this game tonight.




Dude Eli's dick is so far into you that you see it from your ass


I don't know what that is that you're saying there but, it just sounds wrong and um this team sucks and so does Jones and so does Shurmur. And you know it.
RE: RE: can't believe the takeaway  
Big_N : 10/11/2019 12:50 am : link
In comment 14623686 Jim from Katonah said:
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In comment 14623588 bluepepper said:
[quote] here is Shurmur sucks. We went into NE without our 3 top offensive playmakers and gave them a game for 3 quarters. Only reason it didn't go down to the wire is our 3rd string RB coughed up one TD and our 3rd string LB got blocked into the punter for another TD. [/quot

The Patriots make everyone look like talentless idiots. Ask the Steelers.

We are in the 2nd year of a massive rebuild, and I liked their heart. I didn’t like how they rushed 3 for a long stretch though. Feeling a bit demoralized by the 4thQ — but it was fun while it lasted.


Why only second year? Curious how your math adds up.
RE: RE: We are at the point with the officiating  
Festina Lente : 10/11/2019 1:40 am : link
In comment 14623539 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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In comment 14623531 BlueHurricane said:


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That fans need to start boycotting these games.

The NFL will never make the changes that need to be made so long as us addicted fans keep turning in.



It's only pass interference if there's anal penetration.

BTW, Mike Pereira can just fuck right the fuck off. I've had enough of that asshole.


:) Thanks for making me laugh
RE: Like I said on the other thread  
santacruzom : 10/11/2019 2:07 am : link
In comment 14623811 WillVAB said:
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Shurmur is a shittier version of Norv Turner.


Not a bad comparison.

I just watched him answer a question about punting on 4th and 2 with, "I thought it was the right thing to do," followed by a facial expression that inspires absolutely no confidence whatsoever.
RE: Shitty decision making, questionable  
Optimus-NY : 10/11/2019 4:57 am : link
In comment 14623664 jvm52106 said:
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calls, poor use of challenges and timeouts, uneven and somewhat odd use of personnel ( back to SB being healthy), laxk of feel for momemtum, horrible situational awareness, argumentative with officials to the point of seeming desperate, lack of killer instinct and odd choices of plays at times where they seem forced or just thrown in and a completely uninspiring in game coaching style.... None of those things improves or goes away with more talent.


Excellent post. I think that's how you evaluate a HC in a rebuilding phase. He gets until the end of 2020 to show improvement. As of now, the arrow is pointing down. I wonder of they consider Matt Rhule in the future?
RE: RE: RE: bottom line  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2019 5:52 am : link
In comment 14623850 Big_N said:
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In comment 14623831 Tom in NY said:


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In comment 14623812 Big_N said:


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Eli wins this game tonight.



BS...he would have been sacked 7 or 8 times.



Yea and if he did it would have been on 3 TD throws and not not interceptions


Go back to your cave you troll
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: When you're coached this terribly the roster doesn't matter  
jvm52106 : 10/11/2019 6:34 am : link
In comment 14623828 Tom in NY said:
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In comment 14623687 Go Terps said:


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In comment 14623660 speedywheels said:


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In comment 14623563 Go Terps said:


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We can nail every decision this offseason and it won't matter in 2020 if Shurmur is the coach. Worst coach the Giants have had in my lifetime.





Were you not alive when Handley was coach?



I was, and Shurmur's worse.



No. No he’s not. Not even close. Laughable anyone would even think that.
But we know there’s no getting you off one of your narratives



Not even close?

Shurmur has never won more than 5 games in a season. Handley won 6 in his second year before we fired him. That's not a narrative. Enjoy the moral victory tonight. I'm sure Shurmur will tell us all about it.



Handley was put in an impossible situation but he went 8-8 in year 1 and 6-10 in year two..



Handley was given a SB winning team, with 2 NFL caliber QBs, and the best NYG in the history of the franchise. He then proceeded to alienate the players, asst. coaches, media, and eventually the GM/Owners. Additionally, his offensive game plans were ponderous...and that's being kind.
Don't ever compare what Shurmur was handed with what Handley was given.


You clearly aren't looking at the big picture. 1) Handley was given the team late in the off season after a SB win.
2) The defensive guys wanted BB and the GM basically made sure that didnt happen.
3) The Giants stars were aging rapidly.
4) Hoss vs Simms wasn't helping the situation either.
5) SB hangover on team with all the stuff mentioned above.
RE: RE: Shitty decision making, questionable  
jcn56 : 10/11/2019 7:12 am : link
In comment 14623956 Optimus-NY said:
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In comment 14623664 jvm52106 said:


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calls, poor use of challenges and timeouts, uneven and somewhat odd use of personnel ( back to SB being healthy), laxk of feel for momemtum, horrible situational awareness, argumentative with officials to the point of seeming desperate, lack of killer instinct and odd choices of plays at times where they seem forced or just thrown in and a completely uninspiring in game coaching style.... None of those things improves or goes away with more talent.



Excellent post. I think that's how you evaluate a HC in a rebuilding phase. He gets until the end of 2020 to show improvement. As of now, the arrow is pointing down. I wonder of they consider Matt Rhule in the future?


People have to pay close attention to the role a coach plays in the rebuilding process.

These guys are an integral component of talent acquisition and roster building. They're the ones closest to the players and evaluating their play. They're the ones specifying the scheme and asking for specific skills. They're the ones who put players into position on the field, who are then asked to execute and measured for performance.

If the coaches are no good - the talent will be flawed at best.

If these guys are the wrong guys - and nothing they've done to date should indicate otherwise - giving them until 2020 just means you're pushing back the end date on when the team might return to respectability (and that doesn't mean Super Bowl, it means games in December that mean more than draft positioning).
RE: I feel this dark ages era for Giants  
BlueHurricane : 10/11/2019 7:15 am : link
In comment 14623599 giantsFC said:
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Isn’t going anywhere soon. Daniel Jones def doesn’t have that Eli Manning rookie magic feel. At least yet.

How do you have this lack of RB, WR and LB talent/depth in 2019?


Holy shit. Eli rookie magic? WTF are you talking about. At this point in Eli's rookie year he was getting his shit pushed in on a weekly basis.
RE: Truly can't believe the gushing about the defense  
micky : 10/11/2019 7:27 am : link
In comment 14623745 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It's clearly been far too long since some of you have seen good defense with the Giants, because that was NOT a good defense out there. They are the most incompetent tacklers I have ever seen, and receivers were wide goddamned open all night long. Pass rush was decent at times, but c'mon - overall, they suck.


Spot on about the defense.
my take  
giantfan2000 : 10/11/2019 7:27 am : link
it was mystifying play calling
you have a relentless pass rush and no running game and
I think only one screen was called the whole night

the one successful run was a slant toward the outside rather than up the middle
once again that was only called once .. no other time did Shurmur try to attack that area.

4 and 2 down 14 with less than 8 minutes to play and a gassed defense .. you HAVE to go for it .

Why have PI review if you are not going to call it !!!

Defense there are some problems but they came to play - No Defense can keep you in the game if Offense is not sustaining drives and turning the ball over.

Danny Diimes now have film on him so Coaches can plan . that is why his INT are shooting up.. part of rookie learning curb and expected


RE: On game day threads  
joe48 : 10/11/2019 8:05 am : link
In comment 14623815 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Both in game and post, several posters would do well to step away from their laptops, phones, etc. before hitting “submit”.

You come across as clueless , emotional and or drunk with your whining.

Many of you predicted a game that would be non competitive. Yet here we were with 8 minutes remaining and the Giants with the ball.

How can you be so negative when they clearly exceeded your expert expectations?
Agree 100%. Some of the comments show how some folks are just clueless.
Sad That the Giants Fans  
Jeffrey : 10/11/2019 8:39 am : link
have come to debating whether the current coach is worse than a prior coach from 26 years ago. Guess it speaks to the current state of the team. Holes everywhere. Coaching a big part of the problem for sure, but in fairness you can only work with what you've got and this coach has been given very little help from the front office. Wasting a small fortune on Solder who was bad last year and worse this year. Not spending available cap money to try and bring in a veteran RB for the last couple of games after wasting money on J Stewart last year. Remmers, a slight upgrade. Bethea smart but too slow to make up for rookie mistakes. Golden Tate--signed to an expensive contract with a suspension pending and showing signs of being diva-like to replace the ultimate diva. Haley--there's a reason he was not drafted. It's a complete mess for a kid like Jones, Barkley, Engram to try to develop. I just hope it's fixed before injuries take their toll on some of these younger players.
RE: RE: On game day threads  
stoneman : 10/11/2019 8:49 am : link
In comment 14624056 joe48 said:
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In comment 14623815 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Both in game and post, several posters would do well to step away from their laptops, phones, etc. before hitting “submit”.

You come across as clueless , emotional and or drunk with your whining.

Many of you predicted a game that would be non competitive. Yet here we were with 8 minutes remaining and the Giants with the ball.

How can you be so negative when they clearly exceeded your expert expectations?

Agree 100%. Some of the comments show how some folks are just clueless.


+1
Both NE (Brady) and KC (Mahomes) for that matter had some bad plays this week, it happens. People only critique bad plays and forget the good plays (there were some).
RE: Is it supposed to be a point in their favor  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 8:57 am : link
In comment 14623845 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
That they couldn't get a stop and get off the field to save their lives? Interesting argument.


No offense, but isn't this strange timing to make this comment?

They got 4 stops last night. The D didn't play stellar by any stretch, and in better weather, Brady likely torches them for a couple long TD's, but to act like they didn't get any stops when they did several times last night is strange.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/11/2019 9:11 am : link
I actually came away feeling pretty positive about the game last night. I didn't feel like the score was really indicative of how competitive the Giants were.

The offense was just too undermanned. This Patriots defense is legitimately good. We were down to our 3rd RB - a guy from Rutgers who really has no business getting significant work in NFL games. We were without Shepard. No Engram. The offense was just overmatched. We couldn't establish the run, Jones made some rookie mistakes. It was easy to see the game eventually getting away from us like it did.

I went into that assuming we'd not even be competitive. I thought we'd get wiped off the field. I was really impressed with the way this defense played against a pretty damn good team in a building that's tougher to win in than any other.

The blown coverages and missed assignments are becoming less of an issue. We're getting some pass rush... Markus Golden has been fantastic.

I think DeAndre Baker is getting significantly better each week. Dexter Lawrence is a fucking load. Peppers still makes mistakes, takes some bad angles and his tackling sucks - but I think he's been playing better.

Mayo actually made a few nice plays - I liked some of what I saw from him.

The coach still hasn't figured out how to challenge - he keeps challenging things that he's not going to get overturned. Even though I think he had an actual case on that Edelman catch, you have to understand that they just don't overturn that stuff. It's a waste of a timeout. He also keeps wasting challenges on stuff like PI that they aren't going to change.

Given the state of the offense, I really never saw this as a winnable game. I hate 'moral victories' but we did have the ball in the 4th in a one score game which I think most people would have said 'no chance' to before it started - I know I would have.

Happy with a lot of what I saw from the defense.

We didn't lose because of Shurmur, but I'm definitely becoming pretty convinced that he's just not a HC. The team is playing hard for him, I generally think he's a good offensive coach... but the in-game stuff leaves a lot to be desired.

10 days to prepare for a game we can and should win against the Cardinals. I want to see this team respond with a win. Not take a step backwards and struggle against a crappy team at home.
Still high on Jones  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/11/2019 9:11 am : link
mistakes were made, want to see him grow from this. Still see the accuracy, decision making has to improve.
Don't compare Shurmur to Handley.  
FStubbs : 10/11/2019 9:15 am : link
... thanks McAdoo for making us not censor H*****y anymore.

But come on. Handley took a Superbowl winner and went 8-8 and 6-10. Reeves took the aging fumes from that crater and immediately went 11-5, then followed it up with a 9-7 season with Dave Brown at QB.

You put Handley on this team and the Giants would be 0-6. Put Shurmur's completely unimpressive mediocre coaching on the 1991 Giants and they make the playoffs.
RE: RE: I feel this dark ages era for Giants  
giantsFC : 10/11/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14623635 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
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In comment 14623599 giantsFC said:


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Isn’t going anywhere soon. Daniel Jones def doesn’t have that Eli Manning rookie magic feel. At least yet.







The face I made when I saw your handle name. It happens. Opinions and all. 🤷‍♀️
RE: Rush def was outstanding  
gridirony : 10/11/2019 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14623663 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
We had the same yards per rush as they did with shitty backs. If not for that last long run by Michael we had a higher one. Promising for our D. 25 tackles by mayo and ogletree.


25 tackles on 82 NE offensive plays. I'd rather see about half the tackles on half as many plays.
RE: No one is saying Shurmur is the reason for the loss  
Big_N : 10/13/2019 7:59 am : link
In comment 14623782 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What we are saying is that he fucking quit on the game. He also punted on 4th and 5 twice in NE territory. His game management is pathetic. How does he face his fucking team after that last punt?

And this guy is going to lead the turnaround? On what planet?

Everyone and his decision to punt. It was a good decision. The only way you’re getting back in that game is on a last second fluke turnover. The only way! Giants look like a college football team on D with piss poor tackling.

Rather than risk getting totally humiliated he punted. What would you do if you converted anyway? Throw another int; fumble the ball with practice squad running back or gain another two yards and punt again?
Big N  
mittenedman : 10/13/2019 8:13 am : link
That is fucking loser talk.

You convert, score. Get a stop and score again.

It doesn’t matter if you think it’s likely or not. Its the only correct strategy.
RE: Big N  
Big_N : 10/13/2019 10:43 am : link
In comment 14626313 mittenedman said:
Quote:
That is fucking loser talk.

You convert, score. Get a stop and score again.

It doesn’t matter if you think it’s likely or not. Its the only correct strategy.


What makes you such an expert? Coughlin wouldn't have gone for it.

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