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Why Not Just Get Rid of PI Review??

FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2019 11:23 pm
The refs fucked up in the Saints game, but if you are going to then put a knee-jerk rule in and then not use it to enforce penalties, then why not get rid of it?

Keep in mind, in week 2, the Giants were called for a DPI after review.

The refs took 10 seconds to look at the interference on Tate (and the hold the preceded it) and stated the no-call stood.

This is a rule that should never have been implemented in the first place, and now that it is in place is not accomplishing anything.

Why not just end the charade now?
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The officiating hasn't been consistent in years  
Motley Two : 10/10/2019 11:38 pm : link
The only consistency with it NFL officiating is that it's consistently atrocious and consistently impacts the outcomes of games.
RE: Anyone see the blatant false start On Edelman  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/10/2019 11:39 pm : link
In comment 14623647 Saos1n said:
Quote:
During one of the defensive penalties on us?


I saw when the Giants pointed to Lacosse (I think) when he was lined up in the backfield and blatantly moved before the snap. No call.

I also "liked" the non-call of JackRabbit being tackled 4 yards out of bounds, but no, they'll just call Ogletree for a personal foul.
This year  
Giantimistic : 10/10/2019 11:41 pm : link
Has been the worst. Very inconsistent. Disrupts game flow. They need to simplify the rules or allow more contact.
RE: RE: NFL needs to issue a public statement / guidance on how to understand  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2019 11:42 pm : link
In comment 14623634 bluepepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14623592 MM_in_NYC said:


Quote:


the rule.

That was absurd. It was of no real consequence to the game but don't tell me that's not 100% obvious, unequivocal PI.

This breaks trust that officiating is based on clear, objective rules -- and not brokered, backroom understandings.


Pereira basically gave you the guidance. Unless it's very egregious on the order of Rams-Saints they're not going to overturn the call on the field. I'm actually fine with it as long as they're consistent but they probably won't be consistent.


The problem I have with that is the Giants already have been on the receiving end of a DPI that was called after review. And it was nowhere near the magnitude of the Saints game and it wasn't as blatant as the missed one tonight.

If reviews are going to be arbitrary, then get rid of it
RE: RE: NFL needs to issue a public statement / guidance on how to understand  
MM_in_NYC : 10/10/2019 11:42 pm : link
In comment 14623634 bluepepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14623592 MM_in_NYC said:


Quote:


the rule.

That was absurd. It was of no real consequence to the game but don't tell me that's not 100% obvious, unequivocal PI.

This breaks trust that officiating is based on clear, objective rules -- and not brokered, backroom understandings.


Pereira basically gave you the guidance. Unless it's very egregious on the order of Rams-Saints they're not going to overturn the call on the field. I'm actually fine with it as long as they're consistent but they probably won't be consistent.


He doesn't work for the NFL. And that guidance promotes the exact non-rules based understanding I mentioned as the worse-case scenario above. The rules need to be enforced as closely to as written as possible. The implementation we just saw and have otherwise seen is not. That is not acceptable. It will cause more and greater issues. End of story.
The announcers said  
5BowlsSoon : 10/10/2019 11:43 pm : link
Even if it is a PI, it has to be EGREGIOUS. So, I guess we can all probably agree that yes, that was an interference against Tate, but it just wasn’t EGREGIOUS.

Do we even need the rule? I think yes, and here is why.....to make sure obvious egregious penalties like the one in the Saints- Rams game doesn’t happen. That is what they are trying to eliminate.so by having that rule, it should solve that problem.
How about they go just get rid of replay review entirely?  
cosmicj : 10/10/2019 11:45 pm : link
This is a game that’s supposed to be entertaining, not a court trial.

The whole system is choking. Thirty years ago, I remember occasionally being mad at officials calls but that was fairly infrequent. Now the irritation happens almost every series. Referees are having a major impact on each and every game. And it is BORING.
But what is..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2019 11:45 pm : link
egregious? Game-changing?

Something that is blatant by any standard should be considered egregious.

The NFL just wants an out if the refs royally fuck up a playoff game. This isn't the way to do it.
RE: RE: Anyone see the blatant false start On Edelman  
section125 : 10/10/2019 11:46 pm : link
In comment 14623678 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:

I also "liked" the non-call of JackRabbit being tackled 4 yards out of bounds, but no, they'll just call Ogletree for a personal foul.


This. Before they threw the flag I was thinking great another 15 yards. Then they call Golden after Thuney destroyed Tate two yards OB..
RE: How about they go just get rid of replay review entirely?  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/10/2019 11:46 pm : link
In comment 14623726 cosmicj said:
Quote:
This is a game that’s supposed to be entertaining, not a court trial.

The whole system is choking. Thirty years ago, I remember occasionally being mad at officials calls but that was fairly infrequent. Now the irritation happens almost every series. Referees are having a major impact on each and every game. And it is BORING.


I'd be for that.
RE: But what is..  
section125 : 10/10/2019 11:50 pm : link
In comment 14623731 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
egregious? Game-changing?

Something that is blatant by any standard should be considered egregious.

The NFL just wants an out if the refs royally fuck up a playoff game. This isn't the way to do it.


What was egregious was all the PIs the Pats got away with. The Pats are pulling a Seahawks and committing PI daring the refs to call it. They did it all night.

But on that play they chose to ignore two penalties, the illegal contact/hold and the PI.
There is o to one logical solution to this:  
beatrixkiddo : 10/10/2019 11:50 pm : link
In an attempt to fix the blatant missed call from a refs decision of a challenge to a non-called penalty, the NFL will now institute each team with a challenge to the referees decision.

Guarantee that will be a 2020 rule change.
A way to fix is also  
bubba0825 : 10/10/2019 11:52 pm : link
Show the play to somebody who has no info on what was called to begin with
Disregarding that it's making the game less watchable  
BestFeature : 10/10/2019 11:55 pm : link
It's basically arbitrarily, it seems, causing teams timeouts.
Agree ..lost in translation ..  
Bluesbreaker : 10/11/2019 12:03 am : link
How was Tate not get the PI call late in the game.
Not to mention the low shot at Jones Ref standing right
there home fucking cooking and the Pats cover...
Pereira doesn't work for the NFL  
bluepepper : 10/11/2019 12:14 am : link
but he talks to people in the league offense constantly and it's in the NFL's interest to have him be accurate on the air. As far as calls going the other way earlier in the year, yeah, they did but clearly they've dialed it back now. Maybe they'll reverse again but I kind of doubt it.
I hate the rule and tonights example  
steve in ky : 10/11/2019 12:17 am : link
of what sucks with these rules trying to "get it right", they just make the game even more inconsistent and frustrating to watch.
Pats do such a good job of pass defense that they  
Jimmy Googs : 10/11/2019 12:18 am : link
get benefit of doubt far too often. Some PI needed to be called.

But we were going to lose anyway so pipe down.

Who do we play next week?

I think were  
jtfuoco : 10/11/2019 12:37 am : link
The NFL really messed up was flipping these types of calls in the preseason games. I think had they not come out of the gate reversing calls the coaches in the league would not challenge so many in my opinion
They are saving the call reversals for the playoffs.  
smshmth8690 : 10/11/2019 12:41 am : link
Book it. Just breath wrong on a Cowboy, Patriot, Eagle, or Packer, that is if the Cowboys make the playoffs.

Rant off.

On the Tate play  
Marty866b : 10/11/2019 12:41 am : link
You had illegal contact, holding, pass interference and a personal foul of hitting the quarterback too low and nothing was called. It's good to be the Patriots.
Jenkins gets flagged vs Minny for  
BSIMatt : 10/11/2019 12:50 am : link
Doing less than that guy did to Tate. Just terrible for them to watch that replay and believe it was legal. Just atrocious.
Agree. It’s a joke.  
yatqb : 10/11/2019 1:12 am : link
.
If you are going to have it at all  
Blue Dream : 10/11/2019 2:00 am : link
Here would be my system. It is outside of the normal challenge system. You get one chance to challenge it per game no matter what the clock reads. No automatic reviews Replay officials get 60 seconds to decide and most importantly can only look at the replay at full speed If it it obvious enough under these condition ala saints then it gets overturned if not live with it. All other replay rules remain the same. One chance use it wisely
I think instant replay needs overhauled  
SteelGiant : 10/11/2019 6:28 am : link
I think slow motion makes all calls more complicated. I think we have to accept getting call right within reason is the best way. I would make a rule that instant replay must be done in real time only. The refs will always be wrong when compared to a zoomed in camera in the sky is super slow motion.

Let the guys play, yes there will be some sneaky penalties by player's, there always is, but if you can't tell in real time then it didn't happen. Plain and simple.

If you don't like that way then you have to get rid of the refs and go full algorithm camera technology and have camera in the sky do the reffing. This current combination of humans and tech just doesn't work.

Kind of like why baseball needs to get rid of umps behind the plate. Tech has replaced their job.
It’s held to a higher standard  
mattnyg05 : 10/11/2019 6:43 am : link
So a pretty blatant pass interference has to be a severely egregious pass interference to be called... pass interference.

Great job guys.
Since the receiver was grabbed as he made his cut - # 1  
GiantsUA : 10/11/2019 7:13 am : link
and # 2 the receiver's arm was pinned when he was trying to raise it to catch the ball - it's a double negative -

# 1 cancels out # 2 = no penalty
The NFL SUCKS  
ZogZerg : 10/11/2019 7:28 am : link
Do they even over turn the PI that we had in the Saints game in the playoffs?

Here's an interesting..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 8:01 am : link
article linked below.

Here's an excerpt:
Quote:
The way pass interference challenges have been called this season looks like the league’s officials (and Riveron specifically) are thumbing their noses at coaches. To the New Orleans Saints’ Sean Payton, who championed the pass interference challenge in the offseason. To the Dallas Cowboys’ Jason Garrett, who delivered an impassioned speech to help drive it though. And also to guys like the Kansas City Chiefs’ Andy Reid and Patriots’ Bill Belichick, who urged coaches to work hard on getting some kind of rules resolution to the problem of blown calls.

After all that work, after the debacle in the NFC title game that arguably cost the New Orleans Saints a Super Bowl berth, after everything that could have gone wrong with these challenges, it’s the least expected breakdown that’s causing a ruckus: The NFL’s officials aren’t just getting things wrong with pass interference — it looks like they’re upholding the wrong call out of sheer stubbornness after being challenged.

The NFL’s coaches raised hell in the offseason to get an opportunity to correct mistakes on the field and now they’re being blunted by some of the same officials they were trying to overcome. To the point that in the first month of the season, only seven reversals were made in 31 pass interference challenges. A 22.6 percent reversal rate through four games wouldn’t be so bad — except that in bouts of ridiculously poor judgement, some officiating crews are doing things like what we saw Thursday night between the Patriots and Giants.

Simply put, they’re ignoring the right call and sending a message to coaches that even obvious penalties aren’t going to be called right. Why? Because it’s a judgement call.

That’s the get-out-of-jail-free card for officials in this fiasco: Not only is the initial pass interference call (or non-pass interference) based on an official’s judgment — the replay is, too. That means officials can get something wrong in real time and then get it wrong again via instant replay, merely because they’re given the latitude to do it.

How’s that for an effective rule?

Ignoring Interference? - ( New Window )
I..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 8:11 am : link
should have quoted this too. Pretty interesting take:

Quote:
If the NFL thought it had a mess on its hands last January, then it should be hitting a panic button right now. It’s one thing to get something wrong and accidentally change the outcome of history. If something like Thursday night’s mistake repeats itself in a game that matters — or heaven forbid, in the postseason — the league will have given the ultimate unchecked freedom to officials.

The ability to acquit themselves of their own mistakes simply because they can.
They have been protecting themselves  
section125 : 10/11/2019 8:39 am : link
and thumbing their noses at the NFL. The ultimate child temper tantrum.
I said it last week, the head of officials need to be brought into the Commissioner's office and read the riot act....or just get rid of the rule and continue with bad calls without embarrassing themselves further by replaying them and showing it was PI.
They said only 7 of 39...  
BillKo : 10/11/2019 9:06 am : link
..have been overturned.

I'd like to see someone put together a video of what was considered PI, and at what was the game situation.

For example, had that play on Tate been in the final minute of a 23-22 game, would replay treat it differently?

From what I see, you are only getting a call if you literally drag someone down..........literally.
BillKo..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 9:09 am : link
ironically, one of the 7 went against us. And it wasn't nearly as egregious as the one last night.

So even when the refs thumb their nose, we still get fucked!!
Fatman you need to YouTube Pat McAfee on Al Riveron  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 9:11 am : link
Guy gives a ton of unique insight into the league and this is spot on. Fuck Al Riveron.
Link - ( New Window )
Goodell needs to stand up to the refs.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 9:12 am : link
.
RE: BillKo..  
BillKo : 10/11/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14624165 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
ironically, one of the 7 went against us. And it wasn't nearly as egregious as the one last night.

So even when the refs thumb their nose, we still get fucked!!


FMIC - Don't recall that, which game?
Zeke..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 9:13 am : link
it is like the NFL gives a big fuck you to everyone in who they have as the head of officials.

Riveron has always been terrible. Blandino?? They can't even get out of their own way when assigning leaders.
BillKo..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 9:15 am : link
I think it was the Buffalo game. Challenge came in and the ref stated that the DB grabbed the reciever's arm prior to the ball arriving. It wqas a 3rd down stop too.

Can't remember if it was Jenkins, but I think it was.
Riveron is so so fucking awful I wish we had Blandino back!  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 9:16 am : link
.
.  
Britt in VA : 10/11/2019 9:20 am : link
Quote:
Charles Robinson
@CharlesRobinson
·
9h
#NFL officials have gone rogue. 100-percent. This wasn’t called on the field and then wasn’t changed after it was flagged by the #Giants. So they ruled TWICE that this wasn’t defensive pass interference. Which is just blatantly wrong and a purposeful refusal to change the call.


Link - ( New Window )
.  
Britt in VA : 10/11/2019 9:20 am : link
Quote:
Charles Robinson
@CharlesRobinson
·
6h
#NFL officials appear to be willfully wrecking the league’s new pass interference challenge rule. That’s the only logical conclusion when you see Al Riveron uphold a blatantly and demonstrably incorrect non-call the way he did on Thursday night football.
It meant nothing in the grand scheme of the game  
Greg from LI : 10/11/2019 9:43 am : link
But I just get angrier about that garbage. The NFL should start firing officials for incompetence. I want to see Riveron have to face the media and explain why that challenge shouldn't result in a penalty.
The lack of accountability..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 10:31 am : link
has been an issue for years. Scott Green, the guy who blew the call in the Niners WC game, was promoted to head referee the following year.

Phil Luckett who famously botched a coin toss and was terrible at his job outside of that, continued to get playoff games.

Jerome Boger has reffed a Super Bowl.

If there is any accountability for poor reffing, it surely doesn't seem like it.
Non Fumble Call on the Edelman Play Also SHould Have Been Overturned  
LTIsTheGreatest : 10/11/2019 11:03 am : link
Looked like Edelman had control of that ball for at least a couple of seconds, but you are not gonna get those calls in the Patriots building. Bellichick has the officials in his pocket in his home stadium
RE: The lack of accountability..  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14624441 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
has been an issue for years. Scott Green, the guy who blew the call in the Niners WC game, was promoted to head referee the following year.

Phil Luckett who famously botched a coin toss and was terrible at his job outside of that, continued to get playoff games.

Jerome Boger has reffed a Super Bowl.

If there is any accountability for poor reffing, it surely doesn't seem like it.


Which is ridiculous considering the league acts like it is a privilege and honor to work for the NFL. Not for the refs apparently.
Seems like a lot of  
section125 : 10/11/2019 11:11 am : link
reporters are questioning that non-call.
Mike Florio just put out that someone high up told Riveron  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 11:19 am : link
to raise the bar after week 1. So I guess this is coming from Goddell, who has been deafeningly silent, and it honestly hasn't gotten much media attention with the tv contracts coming up.
He should have put a stop to it before it came out of committee  
Sneakers O'toole : 10/11/2019 2:22 pm : link
It's not like we couldn't see this trainwreck coming.
Sneakers..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/11/2019 2:40 pm : link
when I heard it was proposed I thought it was a joke.

I think if you were to call up the thread on BBI about it, it is one of the few subjects people were united on.

I don't know who really thought this would be a good idea. Sean Payton and Jason Garrett??
Yep  
Sneakers O'toole : 10/11/2019 2:42 pm : link
I think most people here saw it coming.
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